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Dont profile. Deport.

  • Thread starter Thread starter Intact
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Intact

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Some, or many, of you will probably not agree.


House leaders rejected the Bush administration's request for authority to detain suspected terrorists indefinitely. Under the House plan, the government could hold immigrants suspected of terrorism for only seven days without bringing charges.

Let's hope seven days is enough for the government to perform a thorough intelligence-based investigation of a million Muslim immigrants.

Oddly, it would be easier to deport immigrants than to detain them. Under the Constitution, visitors to this country have no right to be here, but they may have a right not to be detained indefinitely without a hearing.

War is being waged on our soil by noncitizen infiltrators, legally admitted by the INS. If Congress says the attorney general can't detain them, we ought to deport them. (From the "not ready to move on" file: Isn't it curious that we have room for 19 Muslim mass murderers, but no room for an innocent little Cuban boy? In addition to deporting immigrants from terrorist-producing countries, someone should look into deporting every person who ever worked for the INS.)

Any senator (Teddy Kennedy) who is opposed to the mass deportation of immigrants from suspect countries would be free to waive in as many potential terrorists as he could sign his name to. At least then we'd have true government accountability, rather than collective foot-dragging based on pristine tributes to civil rights.

We won't even necessarily need to call on the fine-tuned screening procedures of the INS. The law could simply state that immigrants from certain countries aren't allowed to be here after a certain date, unless they receive a waiver.

Admittedly, fanatics willing to launch monstrous suicide missions are probably also going to be willing to violate a general order of deportation. But it would raise the terrorists' transaction costs. At the very least, noncitizen terrorists will have a tough time maneuvering around the country, becoming pilots, getting hazardous materials licenses and generally doing the things they need to do to nuke Manhattan.

Surely, thousands of immigrants could be waived in instantly on the basis of reliable evidence either that they are not Muslims, or that they are the peaceful, law-abiding variety not planning mass murder – as opposed to the peaceful, law-abiding Muslims who slaughtered thousands of our fellow countrymen.

Among the advantages of a deportation presumption is that it would give the FBI increased opportunities to flip Muslim immigrants to informants – a possibility unlikely to be lost on any terrorists looking for their own new recruits.

A mass deportation order also ought to ease the way for "ethnic profiling." If noncitizens from various suspect countries were under an order to leave, all security personnel would have grounds to look for potential violators of that law.

Everyone is profiling now anyway. No one talks about it, which allows liberals the luxury of ritualistically denouncing racial profiling. Ordinary Americans aren't going to die for political correctness. And airlines aren't going to fly empty planes.

The facts are: (1) Nineteen male immigrants of Middle-Eastern descent recently murdered thousands of civilians on our shores in a coordinated attack; (2) other people answering to the same description have been apprehended in the country as suspected co-conspirators; and (3) according to the attorney general, there are more sleeper terrorist cells at large that the government has yet to identify.

Complaints about heightened suspicions toward people who fit the description of fanatical Islamists go well beyond opposing indiscriminate hate. It is a demand that Americans not even have their antennae up.

Focusing on men of Middle-Eastern appearance is less "profiling" than suspect identification. It is in keeping with the standard police practice of not looking for people over 6 feet tall when the eyewitnesses tell you the perp is 5 feet 2 inches. When looking for the Unabomber, I promise you – the FBI wasn't rousting Asians or Arabs.

As unfair as it sounds, deporting immigrants from suspect countries will actually minimize cruelties toward vast numbers of vaguely Arabic-looking people. Although many immigrants will be swept up unfairly, all the Sikhs, Hindus and Arab Christians will be relieved to discover they don't scare people anymore.

To be sure, there is a risk that mass deportations might upset the delicate diplomatic maneuvering designed to bring the largest possible number of unsavory regimes into our "international coalition." On the other hand, some countries in the "international coalition" might be forced to conclude that the Great Satan is smarter than they thought. This part of the plan ought to appeal to their primitive sense of honor and boundaries.

But moreover, any sentient being has to realize that some of our "partner" regimes are more plausibly allied with the terrorists. If we don't stop the coalition-building soon, Colin Powell could soon be announcing a "diplomatic initiative" to bring Osama bin Laden into the "coalition." Having allies is great, but let us not forget that it is ultimately our responsibility, not that of foreigners with different interests, to defend this country.
 
A politics post this long?

I just can't read that. Sorry. I'll take a chance though and say...

I DISAGREE.
 
buttplug said:
A politics post this long?

I just can't read that. Sorry. I'll take a chance though and say...

I DISAGREE.

You disagree to something you havent read. You're a bright, shining star aren't you?
 
Intact said:
You disagree to something you havent read. You're a bright, shining star aren't you?
Yes, I'm glad you noticed. Most people are blinded by my incredible sense of derision and don't see my intelligence. You did, though, props for you.
 
Ok, for those who are too lazy:

I basically say we should deport all non-citizens from what we shall call "high-risk countries." And dont start with the "America is a melting pot" business, because as immigrants they have no right to be here, it is only a privelage.
Instead of simply deporting all immigrants from these countries, senators/congressmen will have the power to sort of "vouch" for as many immigrants as they want, and they will be able to stay. This way, God forbid something negative happens, there is a wealth of personal responsability as well as no God damn conspiracy theories on how our intelligence sector let the attack happen, etc.

Once they are deported, men/women from these high-risk countries will be allowed back but they will be made to leave on a certain date unless they recieve a waiver from said congressman/senator. The INS' main focus will be to keep tabs on every single one of these men and women who immigrate from these countries.

This way, there will be no National ID Card, no Patriot Act, no Berkely students bitching about free speech while sitting in their parent's mansions...none of that.
 
Intact said:
Ok, for those who are too lazy:

I basically say we should deport all non-citizens from what we shall call "high-risk countries." And dont start with the "America is a melting pot" business, because as immigrants they have no right to be here, it is only a privelage.
Instead of simply deporting all immigrants from these countries, senators/congressmen will have the power to sort of "vouch" for as many immigrants as they want, and they will be able to stay. This way, God forbid something negative happens, there is a wealth of personal responsability as well as no God damn conspiracy theories on how our intelligence sector let the attack happen, etc.

Once they are deported, men/women from these high-risk countries will be allowed back but they will be made to leave on a certain date unless they recieve a waiver from said congressman/senator. The INS' main focus will be to keep tabs on every single one of these men and women who immigrate from these countries.

This way, there will be no National ID Card, no Patriot Act, no Berkely students bitching about free speech while sitting in their parent's mansions...none of that.
Well, I read and I disagree.
 
buttplug said:
Well, I read and I disagree.

why do you disagree with deporting people who are legal residents, especially if they are from high-risk areas like saudi arabia, iran, iraq, etc?
 
2Thick said:
you can go to the real leagues at www.straightdope.com and spill your verbal diarrheic on to people that know what they are talking about and will reply.

bah, those people at straight dope may be clever linguists, but if they are arguing from a leftist point of view, all of the clever grammar and fancy words wont make a damn bit of difference.

all i need to argue with is fact.
 
p0ink said:
why do you disagree with deporting people who are legal residents, especially if they are from high-risk areas like saudi arabia, iran, iraq, etc?
Discrimination. I just don't think it's fair, that simple.
 
I fail to see any counterarguments so far...does everyone think this is a worthy idea?
 
buttplug said:
Discrimination. I just don't think it's fair, that simple.

so we sacrifice the safety of the many for the 'fairness' of the few? that doesnt make sense, especially since they arent even legal residents.
 
p0ink said:


so we sacrifice the safety of the many for the 'fairness' of the few? that doesnt make sense, especially since they arent even legal residents.

Indeed. Why is it that we should place the feelings of those who are not even supposed to be here above the potential safety of our own citizens?

It is not like Im suggesting that we close our borders completely. We simply require that those who wish to stay from "high-risk" countries recieve sponsorship from a senator (who can be held accountable for his/her actions.
 
p0ink said:
so we sacrifice the safety of the many for the 'fairness' of the few? that doesnt make sense, especially since they arent even legal residents.
I think every human being deserves a fair treatment, a decent life and a as safe as possible environment. No one is entirely safe. It's taking a risk, yes. Is it taking a big risk? I don't think so. How many of those deported Iraqis would actually be a dangerous threat to the country? Who's to decide which one is dangerous and who isn't? Why blame an entire nation for the extreme views/actions of a few? You can deport them all. The threat will still be there, because really, a lot, if not most of the terrorrists, get ready in other countries and not specifically the one they plan on attacking.

What are you going to do? Stop all tourists from coming into the country? How about a born and raised American with an Iranian background? What tells you that man is not fervently insulted that his people suffers, too? What says he won't seek revenge or try to get his point accross one way or the other?

What many people seek, when they enter a new country, is a new start. And that is the vast majority of them; it's not 99% terrorists, 1% honest peace seeking humanbeings. It's most likely the other way around.

That's a bit too Hitleresque of a method for my liking.
 
Intact said:
Indeed. Why is it that we should place the feelings of those who are not even supposed to be here above the potential safety of our own citizens?
What I fail to understand, is why you feel that *your* citizen is more important than one from another country? Why should anyone's feelings be placed above someone else's solely based on their ethnicity?
 
buttplug said:
I think every human being deserves a fair treatment, a decent life and a as safe as possible environment. No one is entirely safe. It's taking a risk, yes. Is it taking a big risk? I don't think so. How many of those deported Iraqis would actually be a dangerous threat to the country? Who's to decide which one is dangerous and who isn't? Why blame an entire nation for the extreme views/actions of a few? You can deport them all. The threat will still be there, because really, a lot, if not most of the terrorrists, get ready in other countries and not specifically the one they plan on attacking.

What are you going to do? Stop all tourists from coming into the country? How about a born and raised American with an Iranian background? What tells you that man is not fervently insulted that his people suffers, too? What says he won't seek revenge or try to get his point accross one way or the other?

What many people seek, when they enter a new country, is a new start. And that is the vast majority of them; it's not 99% terrorists, 1% honest peace seeking humanbeings. It's most likely the other way around.

That's a bit too Hitleresque of a method for my liking.

God, do you even know what you are talking about?

1) I wouldnt consider Iraq to be a "high-risk" nation. Saudi Arabia, Palestine, Egypt, Yemen, etc, they would be on the list.

2) Who is to decide which countries are dangerous? I believe many of these countries have already proven themselves to be high-risk.

3) So what if terrorists "get ready" in their own nations. If they cant make it over here, then how will they harm us? Duh.

4) You obviously havent even read any posts on this thread. Immigrants will be allowed in here once they recieve sponsorship from a politician who wishes to vouch for said immigrant. Remember now, this will only be for immigrants from a small number of countries.

5) How is this "Hitleresque?" Are we attempting to exterminate these folk in clandestine camps and factories?
 
buttplug said:
What I fail to understand, is why you feel that *your* citizen is more important than one from another country? Why should anyone's feelings be placed above someone else's solely based on their ethnicity?

I dont know, perhaps because this is our country. So, you feel that a Swahili who got in a canoe and paddled all the way to Canada, docked on some shore, and sues some Canadian citizen for running over his foot when he is jaywalking...you honestly believe that your country should award this Swahili a certain amount of cash?

I know it may seem like a shitty analogy, but the bottom line is illegal immigrants have no right to be here, and therefore should not have the same rights as those who are citizens, whether or not they were born here or are naturalized.
 
I'm talking about what I believe in, and that is equality.

1) Iraq was an example, put any country you want there, the point is the same. The United States, in my opinion, is also a high-risk country.

2) Prove that to me and try to do a better job than your president.

3) Tourism. Or getting into another country first, getting citizenship and coming in a Brit, for example.

4) I told you, I didn't read your first post and I don't intend on it. Do you even know how many immigrants there is? And how many politicians that would take? They would not personally vouch for them in the end, it'll end up being paperwork, and eventually, it will all be the same. Welcome to the real world where politicians have other things to do than to sponsor an immigrant under their own name, putting at risk their entire career.

5) It's drastic. That's how it is Hitleresque.
 
buttplug said:
I think every human being deserves a fair treatment, a decent life and a as safe as possible environment. No one is entirely safe. It's taking a risk, yes. Is it taking a big risk? I don't think so. How many of those deported Iraqis would actually be a dangerous threat to the country? Who's to decide which one is dangerous and who isn't? Why blame an entire nation for the extreme views/actions of a few? You can deport them all. The threat will still be there, because really, a lot, if not most of the terrorrists, get ready in other countries and not specifically the one they plan on attacking.

i feel you are letting your emotions and idealism get in the way of common sense here.

the majority of 9/11 hijackers were either here illegally or exploiting our country's generous nature in terms of student visa and passports.

since our public officials took an oath to protect this country, its people, and the constitution they have every right to kick out those who might be a potential threat to it. not just that, but those who are not citizens of the united states and are here illegally, they have no protection uder the US Constitution, thus giving us the ability to tell them to pack their bags.

we have a system of laws here, and if people are going to disobey them, they should be ready to face any and all consequences given to them. in the case of non-citizens, instead of putting them in jail we simply deport them. if they want to become a LEGAL US citizen they should take the legal route that so many immgrants before them chose.

yes, not every person from countries like iran, saudi arabia, egypt, yemen, etc are terrorists, but there is still that threat, and until we smoke out and kill every would-be terrorists a lot of decent people are going to inconvenienced in the process. that's how things are. fortunately, we have people in office who would rather see americans being able to live peaceful, happy lives free of suicide bombings, airline hijacks, chem/bio/nuclear weapons, and mass murder as opposed to worrying about the 'fairness' of non-legal residents.

whoever said life was fair?
 
Intact said:


I dont know, perhaps because this is our country. So, you feel that a Swahili who got in a canoe and paddled all the way to Canada, docked on some shore, and sues some Canadian citizen for running over his foot when he is jaywalking...you honestly believe that your country should award this Swahili a certain amount of cash?

I know it may seem like a shitty analogy, but the bottom line is illegal immigrants have no right to be here, and therefore should not have the same rights as those who are citizens, whether or not they were born here or are naturalized.
That analogy is bloody ridiculous. How can you even compare those two situations? What does it have to do with lawsuits or money? We're talking human rights, not capitalism and profit.
 
Oh yea. I'm emotional and my point of view is dumb and unrealistic and you guys are not completly paranoid patriotic assholes.
 
buttplug said:
I'm talking about what I believe in, and that is equality.

1) Iraq was an example, put any country you want there, the point is the same. The United States, in my opinion, is also a high-risk country.

The United States is a high risk country for producing international terrorists? Give me a break.

2) Prove that to me and try to do a better job than your president.

If you knew what the hell you were talking about I wouldnt need to prove it to you. It is a well known fact that in the countries I mentioned a required course for kids in grade school concerns the destruction of America and Israel.

3) Tourism. Or getting into another country first, getting citizenship and coming in a Brit, for example.

Your ignorance is astounding. Even "tourists" from these nations would have close tabs kept on them from day-to-day and be forced to leave if they stay past their allotted visiting term.

4) I told you, I didn't read your first post and I don't intend on it. Do you even know how many immigrants there is? And how many politicians that would take? They would not personally vouch for them in the end, it'll end up being paperwork, and eventually, it will all be the same. Welcome to the real world where politicians have other things to do than to sponsor an immigrant under their own name, putting at risk their entire career.

Thats the point. Many politicians seem to point the finger at everyone except themselves for the massacre of 9/11. These same politicians claim that people from these countries are of no danger to us. Well, this will give them a chance to put their money where their mouth is.

5) It's drastic. That's how it is Hitleresque.

This statement is too retarded to even address
 
buttplug said:
That analogy is bloody ridiculous. How can you even compare those two situations? What does it have to do with lawsuits or money? We're talking human rights, not capitalism and profit.

Hence me stating it is a bad analogy, but it illustrates my point. Why should the illegal immigrant be protected under your individual country's laws when he/she should not even be there in the first place?
 
All I see is you calling me ignorant; you calling my statements retarded and you saying that I have no clue what the hell I am talking about. Way to get your point accross and to prove me entirely wrong.

Yea, I'm that much of a fucking idiot and I'll give you your break alright.
 
buttplug said:
All I see is you calling me ignorant; you calling my statements retarded and you saying that I have no clue what the hell I am talking about. Way to get your point accross and to prove me entirely wrong.

Yea, I'm that much of a fucking idiot and I'll give you your break alright.

For someone who did not even read the original topic you sure are condescending.
 
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