Do people on gear work harder???

[SteelWeaver]

Yeah yeah, so this is probably a dense question, but humour me here, OK?

Who works harder for their physique - a natural or a gear-user?

I was under the impression that gear allows you to recover faster, and diet harder with less loss of muscle, and improves protein synthesis so muscle-building is more efficient. So theoretically that means you could do a TON more work, work harder than any natural ever could, and get unbelievable results, right?

So why does everyone seem to think that steroids make it easier? I'd say it would be a huge waste of money and nasty sides to take gear and not work harder ... don't you think?

 

[MS]

Any answers you get are going to be anecdotal and very opinionated. There are really two classes of people that use AAS on these boards.......those that just want to look good naked with the minimum amount of work and those that want to blast past their natural plateaus to become the biggest, freakiest and leanest creature on the planet.

IMHO, most of the women on THIS board wish to retain somewhat of a natty look. Otherwise we'd be seeing a lot more of higher dose higher androgen usage required to get freakishly big and lean. So in a way, most of us around here would prolly be in the class of wanna look good naked with minimal amount of effort. This is the essence of human nature LOL. Given the large number of figure and fitness competitors that I have seen in the gym (as well as what they shove in their pie-holes), I would say that the majority of this class of women do not work nearly as hard as their non-AAS using counterparts, yet they usually take home the trophies. I'm sure the women on this board work hard for their bodies, but in my personal experience this is the face of modern figure and physique competitions. So I guess it depends on your goals although even in physique classes these days, a woman can get marked down for being TOO muscular. So there's no point in taking high doses of gear and busting your butt 24/7 if you're just going to lose points for getting too big!

 

[Hannibal]

Any answers you get are going to be anecdotal and very opinionated. There are really two classes of people that use AAS on these boards.......

Along the lines of what MS said...I think there are two classes of people in general. There are hard workers and then there are lazy asses. Lazy asses see AAS use as a quick fix...a miracle pill in a big bottle marked STEROIDS that requires a minimal amount of effort. Hard workers will generally think out their cycle and do as much work as possible to get the most "bang for their buck" out of the assistance.

So in a broad stroke generalization...I think that being a hard worker is a character trait. It is not dependant on whether you are chemically enhanced or not....IMO

 

[Sassy69]

I think the term "harder" is relative, depending on what you are talking about. The "hardest" training I ever did was for my 2nd show, natural, but fucked up diet. Despite literally slave-driven training sessions, I ended up too fat for competition. I also dieted "harder" than I'd ever dieted before - but again, wrong use of resources. I always train as hard as possible, but I every year that I train & learn more about bb, I try to train smarter, not harder. I still think of the two, diet is more important than training, AS or not. "Harder"? I always strive to achieve a new goal every time I go to the gym, whether an extra 15 min of cardio, one extra interval of HIIT, 5 additional lbs on a press or whatever. I've followed this approach since I first climbed into the leg press on a Universal machine at the local Y in 1981.

Just a thought -- when you refer to "harder" I guess you were thinking in terms of bulking up. "Smarter" training would allow you to perhaps focus on bringing up a lagging body part, bring out the smaller muscles that dont' usually get hit with the basic moves, allow you to lean out more, etc. but with less hours in the gym, more intensity & better focus.

 

[vinylgroover]

It's not about who works harder, it's about which has more assistance in terms of building lean muscle. Answer, the AAS user.

The majority of serious natural and AAS bodybuilders will put in the equivalent amount of physical and mental effort or exertion, it's just that the AAS user has other factors besides mental and physical effort that assist him or her to a much greater extent, therefore being able to better maximise the efficiency with which all of the inputs are used by the body.

 

[b fold the truth]

Hmmm...

Do those who use AAS take their training more seriously?

OR

Do those who take their training more seriously use AAS?

B True

 

[MS]

Hmmm indeed b fold.

I have actually thought about this a lot over many years, and spent those years doing a lot of observing. The answer is much more complex than the question (as always).

SteelWeaver, let's say you spent 10 years of your hardest, smartest, non-AAS training and acheived a great physique, but someone else just like you comes along and trains just as hard and just as smart but using AAS achieves that great physique in 18 months. Now who worked harder in your opinion?

Add to that that there are some things that you cannot ever acheive as a woman without gear, such as truly ripped quads.....

I have observed a total of 4 women over the years who I would honestly say continued to bust a gut in the gym and diet department after starting AAS. Of those, 2 were outta the iron game totally within a year due to irreparable tendon damage, one of them was pretty much forced to train with less intensity because she got too big (a figure competitor-note that she chose this path rather than to stop or reduce the AAS), and one of them has done very well in the pro ranks without ever using grossly excessive amounts of gear. Every other woman I have observed did not have great training habits BEFORE starting AAS, and that certainly didn't change after AAS even though their physiques changed noticeably. On the plus side of slacking off, most of the lazier women haven't had probs with tendons to the same extent as the 'harder' training women.

As AAS applies to diet, I haven't noticed there's much difference. It's not 'easier' to stick to a strict diet just because you're on AAS. You still have to have the willpower to not put it in your mouth. However, the boost to BMR seems to help a little, but there's no reason a natty with good knowledge, coaching and willpower can't be just as lean or leaner than someone on mild to moderate doses of AAS (quads aside).

I used to take my training very seriously, as have a lot of women over the years that have not used AAS. But there is a level of competition above which you cannot rise without using AAS, and there's an aweful lot of women below that level that just find it easier/more exciting/better results etc...with AAS. And of course, genetics will always play a huge factor in how someone looks and how hard they have to work to acheive that look!

 

[wilson6]

AAS can increase the drive to train harder. Psychological effects, particularly in women.

AAS produce more rapid changes in the physique in conjunction with diet and training, and that increases the motivation to train. Results driven.

On the other hand there are fitness girls that use pretty high doses of AAS but have to train light otherwise they'd get too big. The reason they use AAS is to get an overall (thighs and butt included) hard, lean look but not too much size. In fact, you'll probably see more figure girls on AAS to balance their fat distribution out. The judging for figure presents a problem because they want a softer look overall. Given the fact that most women carry more bodyfat in the gluteal-femoral region, to maintain a softer upper body look will likely result in a much fatter lower half than we'd like to see on stage (the bowling pin look).

Lastly, there are the lazy ones that use AAS but could probably achieve the same degree of strength and muscle mass without them, but they just don't like training hard and really watching their diet and nutritional supplementation.

W6

 

[Sassy69]

To MS's point about competition levels & AS, any guesses on % of women (let's ignore the men for the moment) who are on AS AND compete vs. just on AS for aesthetic reasons?

 

[The Shadow]

My 2 cc's:

I think that gearheads will spent a m ethodical amount of time on their diet when on...that sees to be the biggest difference to me

besides again to me....gear is most beneficial in it's anti-catabolic - ie - improved recovery time

 

[Temple]

Then there is a third catagory. I have no interest in competing, part of it is that I want to look good naked, part of it is that there are so many things that I like to do that the additional strength helps with and at my age the body just does not respond the way that it used to, to ANYTHING. I would not say that I am lazy but I would say that I am impatient and it is much easier to stay motivated and consistent when I am on as the results come much faster. The down side is that it is psychologically hard for me to be off - it is like "why bother". I do it anyway but...

 

[w84me]

Hmmm indeed b fold.

SteelWeaver, let's say you spent 10 years of your hardest, smartest, non-AAS training and acheived a great physique, but someone else just like you comes along and trains just as hard and just as smart but using AAS achieves that great physique in 18 months. Now who worked harder in your opinion?

I am at this point ... non-AAS for years, very intense workout efforts (if this is what is being referenced as "hard"), standing on stage a few times a year, looking at the female BB to your left or right knowing she is taking first ... fighting to make 2nd or 3rd ... is a little depressing after working so 'hard' for so many years.

I am ready for a little edge ... doesn't mean my workouts will be less intense ... I will appreciate the boost and probably work harder with less amounts to keep down/minimize the sides.

 

[NY Muscle]

Along the lines of what MS said...I think there are two classes of people in general. There are hard workers and then there are lazy asses. Lazy asses see AAS use as a quick fix...a miracle pill in a big bottle marked STEROIDS that requires a minimal amount of effort. Hard workers will generally think out their cycle and do as much work as possible to get the most "bang for their buck" out of the assistance.

So in a broad stroke generalization...I think that being a hard worker is a character trait. It is not dependant on whether you are chemically enhanced or not....IMO

Well said, took the words out of my mouth..

I also want to add…in this day and age steroids are now a “party drug” I see the laziest guys AND girls who take juice and get no where because they are still LAZY slackers…so yes those type of people use AAS cause they are schmucks with no drive.

Also, everything else being equal…a SMART “user” should train as hard as possible while ON and decrease the intensity and volume when OFF in order to keep gains and maximize gains while OFF…that is what a SMART user does…but then we all know there are those who never come off…those are usually the PROS or the avg user who took juice way too early in their training career (hint didn’t have a good natural base) and their bodies, for the lack of a better phrase, don’t know how to grow without juice.

 

[vinylgroover]

I am at this point ... non-AAS for years, very intense workout efforts (if this is what is being referenced as "hard"), standing on stage a few times a year, looking at the female BB to your left or right knowing she is taking first ... fighting to make 2nd or 3rd ... is a little depressing after working so 'hard' for so many years.

I am ready for a little edge ... doesn't mean my workouts will be less intense ... I will appreciate the boost and probably work harder with less amounts to keep down/minimize the sides.

Be true to yourself W8, and the placings will not matter, you will always be a winner. If you are solely there to win the trophy, then by all means juice. If you are there because you know you are in your best possible shape and you have surpassed your own expectations and goals, then you have won, irrespective of the placing.

Another way to look at it is that you have not taken steroids for a particular reason up to this point, be it for moral, health or other reasons. Are you prepared to compromise your own beliefs in order to win a trophy?

Whatever you decide i wish you luck.

 

[Hannibal]

Well said, took the words out of my mouth..

NYM agrees with me...I'm not sure how I feel about that

 

[SteelWeaver]

AAS can increase the drive to train harder. Psychological effects, particularly in women.

AAS produce more rapid changes in the physique in conjunction with diet and training, and that increases the motivation to train. Results driven.

W6

Is this second statement an extension/expansion of the first, or is there some actual physiological reason that the drive to train harder is increased? Like that more male hormones in the system increase aggression?

Are you saying that a natural who has trained for some years at their highest achievable levels of ambition and aggression, can INCREASE that level if they take gear? Someone who is just all-out totally and seriously focussed on their physique, trains at 100% or near 100% intensity, smartly, in the gym, never misses a session unless drastically sick, sleeps enough for optimal recovery, eats as clean as humanly possible (i.e. like 95-99 or 100% of the time), and takes and cycles supps optimally, can, by the simple addition of gear, somehow increase their drive? Wouldn't it be the existing drive that would simply be allowed a greater area upon which to work?

OK, wait, I reread what you said. You mean basically anyone who starts using gear, right? Results come quickly, so naturally they train harder - basic psychological fact.

But I think Hannibal's right - it's about basic personality - there are those who will work harder when they see good results, in an effort to make the results even better, and there are those who will slack off, because they have found a level at which they are getting results, so why bother working harder?

I guess, sassy, when I say "harder" I mean - if you can recover fast enough to work every body part at high intensity twice a week, well, then, WORK every body part twice a week! No natural could do that, or they'd break something quickly, right? (oh, and I'm talking BB style here, no comments from the PL peanut gallery And diet harder - gear users can eat much less with much less muscle loss - thus their diet can be stricter, right? And if you get better results from a cleaner diet, and these are amplified by gear, then dammit, go cleaner!

I guess I asked this question because there seems to be a prevailing opinion that gear allows people to get the same results as a highly focussed, super-driven intense natural with much less effort. Which may be true, but it just seems to me that if one takes performance enhancing chemicals which increase one's work capacity, then one should increase one's work accordingly.

I'm not knocking anyone's choices here, at all. I don't see that as a right of mine, or anyone's. I'm just interested in exploring opinions about gear use and people's reasons for using or not using in general. I guess it all comes down to what one's objectives are, and how one feels is the best way to achieve those objectives. So then I need to ask, is the goal itself or the route to the goal more important? Or is it more how one uses the lessons learned from both?

 

[vinylgroover]

Good point steelweaver. For me, the journey has always been more important than the destination. That's why i lift, first and foremost for the enjoyment, doesn't mean i don't set goals, but the physical and mental rush i get from going into the gym four times a week is what i crave.

 

[w84me]

agreed .... I work hard & will continue to keep intensity in my training whether all natural or not. I enoy the workouts and the rush afterwards. Even if I never stepped on stage again ... but my accomplishments on or off will be worked for ... I will not achieve anything by being lazy.

 

[MS]

I guess I might have misunderstood the intention of the original question. If we're talking about basic personality issues (motivated versus lazy etc...), then this is the wrong board.....If we're talking about how hard you have to work to get the same reults as someone else (which is kinda what I thought was the ?), then AAS clearly and indisputably make it 'easier' to achieve the same level of muscularity, leanness, drive or whatever, than someone who is not using AAS. In addition, AAS COMBINED with a very driven personality will lead to a physique that would be impossible without the AAS.

But AAS is just a supplement/drug and like all drugs they come with side effects as well. Knowing how to balance the dose of the drug with other lifestyle and genetic factors to get the best results with the least side effects is a true art form (and relevant to many if not most fields of medicine), but from where I'm sitting any lifestyle factors that can reduce the dose of ANY drug are a good thing. I believe that the intelligent bodybuilder will only use drugs (not just AAS but any drugs) when needed and in moderation in addition to hard work to achieve their goals, but not as a substitutue for hard work.

By this definition there are a lot of unintelligent bodybuilders out there!

Let us not forget that AAS also have some very real and dramatic uses in treatment of disease. Even then, physicians and patients work to minimize the dose needed to achieve a desirable result.

 

[SteelWeaver]

OK, no, I'm not talking about basic personality issues - those are obvious. YES, my original question really is, does AAS make it easier to achieve the same or better level of muscularity, leanness, etc.? And, yes, obviously the answer to that question is, YES, they make it easier.

HOWEVER, part of that question is - DO most people who use gear take the above fact as an excuse to slack off and get the same gains more easily? IS the prevailing opinion that one can work less hard if one is ON? OR, do they use the above fact to work even harder than ever before, harder even than they worked when they were natural, to achieve super-natural results?

Because that, IMO, is what they SHOULD do. Here I step out on my utterly flamable limb, to say that IMO if one takes performance-enhancing chemicals, then one should enhance one's performance, not use them as a crutch to slack off on.

 

[w84me]

IMHO ... I agree with SW
Go Hard or Go Home