DNP is NOT anti-catabolic

[Andy13]

The reason for this thread is b/c some guys go on month long DNP cycles thinking they are A-OK as far as muscle goes..

This is incorrect!!!

I'm not sure how (in the hell) this falacy got started but it is a HUGE mistake to believe that DNP is anti-catabolic.

In a muscle cell
What is true is that during periods low blood sugar (at rest) high levels of acytyl CoA (from breakdown of fatty acids) shut off glycolisis. Entry of glucose into muscle cells deminishes as insulin levels drop drastically. THe muscle cell shifts fuel usage from glucose to almost exclusively fatty acids.


In the liver
However, something different goes on in the liver. It's glycolosis deminishes as well however the liver's job is to produce fuel for the brain as a top priority. ONce all of it's stored glucose is exported to the blood for the brain, the liver begins transaminating amino acids from muscle protein to make glucose.(gluconeogenesis).

When someone is on DNP, this is an ongoing process since the liver cannot store any glycogen.

So DNP IS NOT anti-catabolic!


Lastly, AAS are NOT anti-catabolic on DNP. And we are lucky. IF AAS stopped muscle protein from being degraded, our brains would suffer!!! Furthermore, as I have said in the past, AAS don't work at all on someone on DNP. I know I said an absolute and nothing is absolute, but the value from AAS while on an effective DNP dose is so little it might as well be an absolute.

I just dont want guys to be on these low-dose month long cycles thinking the DNP is going to save muscle for them. No, DNP is not literally catabolic (meaning it does not go into cell by itself and break down proteins) but the energy defecint it puts the cell through causes a highly catabolic system.

Andy

 

[Stew Meat]

Whats up with you and DNP lately, Andy? lol



-Stew

 

[Bulldog_10]

I'm not sure how (in the hell) this falacy got started but it is a HUGE mistake to believe that DNP is anti-catabolic

Maybe Someone got DNP mixed up with clen?

 

[Andy13]

Whats up with you and DNP lately, Andy? lol



-Stew

I'm facinated with it! I wish I could speak with one of the biochem profs here about it..

I was close to one cell biologist here and asked him.. He had no clue.

 

[Andy13]

Whats up with you and DNP lately, Andy? lol



-Stew

How about your thoughts?

 

[macrophage69alpha]

DNP is anti-proteolytic

why?

because it decreases levels of t3



peace

 

[Adaptek]

I just came off a DNP cycle. I lasted a week in hot weather. I started at 400mgs. I went up as far as 800mg a day on days 4 and 5.

People had never seen a human sweating as much as me. Even in AC. I had to take a couple sick days off work. Said I had a fever.
It licked the shit out of me. I would be talking to people on the phone and out of breath. Cardio? Weight lifting? Yeah right, look like a total clown walking in the gym panting pick up a weight, denched in sweat, then start running for fruits before you pass out?

One guy asked me if it was raining outside

I survived and actually lost a couple pounds even though I ate total shit throughout the cycle. I had no energy to cook or eat clean, I ate fast food all the way. Ordered in Pizza etc..

Didnt get much sleep. I took the DNP in week 8 of my AAS cycle. I took AAS throughout the DNP cycle. I carbed up and went to the gym a few days after the DNP cycle. I did not lose any strength, maybe I am a little stronger. But its hard to tell because I still dont have all my energy back. So although I was able to lift heavy I was not able to last a full workout. Will let u know in a few days how it all works out.

 

[Andy13]

DNP is anti-proteolytic

why?

because it decreases levels of t3



peace

A starvation diet decreases t3 as well.

 

[Riker29]

Andy:

How many cycles of DNP have you done?

How many cycles of gear have you done?

Whate are your stats?

 

[freshr1]

Andy:

How many cycles of DNP have you done?

How many cycles of gear have you done?

Whate are your stats?

And what does that have anything to do with anything? If # of cycles equalled intelligence or knowledge about a subject, Ronnie Coleman would be a quadruple PhD looking into protein folding and the studying the human genome in his spare time. You think the researches who originally made Dbol or Anadrol, have used it extensively? I doubt it.

Astronomers know a shitload about the sun, without ever having been there. Does that discredit them as knowledgable?

 

[Riker29]

It has everything to do with it.

Its all theory until its proven by real people, real cycles, real bodies.

All of this "theorizing" gets a bit dangerous.

I want to know where the info is coming from, and want some degree of knowledge about the source, as opposed to someone who simply has himself an HP programmable calculator, a chemistry book, and who has probably never done DNP themselves.

So, the questions stand.

I think a lot of people deserve to have some info regarding the source.

 

[solidspine]

My only DNP cycle was 11 days 3 at 400mg and the rest at 600mg per day.

I lost 10 lbs. all of it fat,

And I have managed to gain 10 lbs. of muscle back with gear,

Started at 160 lbs. dropped to 150 now back to 160 on my cycle


But my BF is way down probably around 10%, which is low for me.

But the cycle kicked the heck out of me and it took at least 2-3 weeks to get back in shape.

Current cycle d-bol, test and primo, love it.


I think the DNP is a great way to jump start a diet,

Just like d-bol for a cycle.

To me DNP is simply an extended fast or starvation diet.

 

[SonnyBlack]

true riker bro...very true.....

 

[Riker29]

I just gave up on a low-dose DNP cycle.

My plan was to do 200 mgs/day for 4 weeks, and I just stopped after 3.

There was a lot of "theory" that someone of my size (200 lbs) would not feel the DNP at such a dose.

I can tell you from personal experience, and based upon the sweat which is now dripping off my forehead as I type, that *that* theory was wrong.

I think the next time, I'll go back to 400/600/day. I would rather do a week of hell, where I bascially know that my life will *stop*, than to try to "live" with what I have had to put up with for the past 3 weeks.

All I am sayoing is, we need a balance betwwen theory and REAL WORLD EXPERIENCE. And I think we have a few guys on here that like to sit at home with their chemistry books and theorize endlessly, they get a rise out of making everyone "impressed" by what they *seem* to know ...... and I want to have a feel for where they are coming from, what PERSONAL experince they have.

Here is a reverse example. Ask most Doctors, even experiemntal ones with a strong biochemistry background, what would happen if a man would take like 750 mg of Test a week. And add in some Equipoise - basically a horse steroid. Ask that Doctor what the effects would be. They will claim everything from a full rack to a set of balls growing out of the dude's ears. Cancer, heart attacks, blood pressure so high that if you stuck a pin in him he would shoot across thr room - most docs will go on endlesssly about the potential horros that would ensue if a man actually took such substances at such doses.

But, we know from the EXPERIENCE OF PEOPLE WHO HAD DONE IT, that the reality is quite a bit different.

So, we need a balance.


I did my low-dose DNP cycle, and I can tell you without a doubt that I did not shave off an OUNCE of lean mass. Period. And this was during a time when one would normally be somewhat catabolic (I was recovering my natural Test - taking Clomid, etc).

Real world example.

No substitute.

Yeah, I love science and theory, but (to refer to the response above) there may be 1000 scientists who have never been to the moon who might talk about what it would be like, but if 1 astronaut who had BEEN there walked into the room - who are YOU going to listen to about what the moon is REALLY like?

 

[wildcat]

Riker-

Your low dose plan is exactly what I plan on doing. I am on test/eq/winny right now and planned on starting my dnp with clomid, three weeks after the last injection.

i realize that you didnt lose any lean mass, but did you feel weak during your workouts?

tell me more about your experience with the extended low dose, I am very interested cuz i plan on following the same scheme.

thanks,

wc.

 

[SonnyBlack]

Bravo...Riker Bravo... nuff said....somebody shouldve said this a long time ago...






P.Sm me dude....i like your style bro...ive also done a 3 wk dnp cycle...it was 4oo mg a day...though and i t wasnt crystal

 

[TxLonghorn]

wildcat, I am currently on a low dose dnp cycle. I am taking 200mg/day, and my sides aren't as bad as Rikers. I know different people react differently. I am glad it does not affect me too much, because that 'week of hell' is just not feasible for me. I am around people too much.

Do I feel weak during my workouts? What workouts? I feel weak walking up a flight of stairs. That is one thing I don't like. There is no carb up so to speak on dnp. Whatever, I can deal with not working out for another week or so, and then it's back to the iron.

Am I losing fat? You betcha! This stuff rocks. Eat what you want, and lose fat. I don't take too many liberties with this, but you get the drift. It is certainly not as draconian as a keto diet.

tx

 

[IronFist]

Riker, what was your end result on your 3 week dnp cycle?

 

[Riker29]

Let me start a new thread on these issues.

 

[Big Country 056]

Adaptex/tx longhorn,

so you're saying that if I go over on my carbs by @ 50 or 60g per day it's no big deal?

 

[TxLonghorn]

You want a high carb diet on dnp. Keto is not the way to go.

 

[Big Country 056]

TxLonghorn,
I just PMed you...

bigcountry 056

 

[Adaptek]

Adaptex/tx longhorn,

so you're saying that if I go over on my carbs by @ 50 or 60g per day it's no big deal?

I dont know shit. I did one cycle and it was hell.

All I am saying dood is be very careful with this shit. I have seen what it can do. It can literally fry your ass.

 

[freshr1]

It has everything to do with it.

Its all theory until its proven by real people, real cycles, real bodies.

Sure, I agree. But it doesnt mean HE has to do the cycles. The 100's of mathematicians who calculated Apolo13's flight on sliderulers, never stepped foot on the moon yet they did all the theory and let someone else go up there. It's not like biology is this super mysterious science beyond everyone. It has rules too, and if you know the rules, you can come up with relatively solid theories. Nobody's forcing you to try what he says, he's just saying this-and-that might affect you in this way because we know that blah-blah does this-that.

You think the scientists who came up with (say) Arimidex, tried it on themselves? Hell fucking no. Do you think they just kept trying chemicals until they found what works in what way? Nope. They know how estrogen works, they know how the receptors work, they went on a computer and DESIGNED Arimidex. Then they did studies on subjects. I'm willing to bet not one person who worked on Arimidex tried it on themselves.

I'm sure there are tons of examples like that. Ever seen a pic of Duchaine? The guy was no Ronnie Coleman, but he knew his shit. Stats mean dick all.

 

[Riker29]

Again, it adds to the beliveability. Period.

Plus, as dangerous as DNP has the potential to be, it is very risky when these "Theory of the Week" posts get made, when the THEORIES are proclaimed within them as if they are FACT, and thgen guys may ACT based on those theories which may be TOTALLY UNTESTED.

Plus, ..... please ......... this guy ain't no Dan Duchaine. Shame on you.

 

[SonnyBlack]

Man ....poor old Dan Duchaine is probably twisting and turning in his grave right now....please bro read my lips: DO NOT COMPARE SHIT WITH SHINOLA.....

 

[freshr1]

Ryker, nobody said he's a Duchaine. I'm saying STATS MEAN DICK ALL when it comes to knowledge. That's all. You're trying to discredit Andy by asking him for his stats, because you lack the knowledge/education (as do I) to argue against his points.

 

[Riker29]

fershr1 - whiner ....

Did I discredit him? I said nothing of the kind - I simply asked.

Stopped being so defensive little boy - stop whining.

There must be a balance between theory and REAL WORLD EXPERIENCE. And half of these theories are NOT based on people actually ingesting it, they are based on a few Chem majors shooting the shit - how do you know that they are even THAT qualified to do that - huh? What .... do big words bowl you over that much?

Dude I know more about this shit and about science than you could ever freegin know, so shut the hell up. I said nothing personal against the dude, I simply asked a question - thats all. You have done nothing but whine.

Since you are obvuiously one of those "get the last word in" little boys - I';ll tell ya what - you go right ahead. You are not worth my time. Go ahead and prove me right by whining some more. I have NEVER seen YOU priovide a post of ANY substance at ALL. So, go ahead and add to your streak by whining some more .... go ahead .... prove me right. Again.

 

[freshr1]

fershr1 - whiner ....

Riker - sore loser ...

Get a grip man. If you know so much about science why don't you dispute his points with science. Do it, let's see you in action. Don't hold your vast unfathomable knowledge, wisdom and experience back. I haven't seen you dispute anything here, with science or otherwise. Andy isn't putting a gun to your head and forcing you to use it his way (I sure don't), he's just discussing. It's obvious that all you're trying to do is discredit someone based on their stats, because you're not intelligent enough to refute or agree on his points. I like the discussions which Andy and others bring up, and I let the smarter guys discuss it cause I don't know much about the subject myself. I'm smart enough to know when someone's just bullshitting and when someone genuinely knows what they're talking about, and to me Andy doesn't seem like a BS'er. I'm not whining, I'm telling you to STFU unless you got something meaningful to discuss.

Secondly, you don't know anything about me, so how can you possibly say you know more about science than I do? Now you're trying to discredit me by saying I whine. WTF? Well, you're a whiner too!! Na Na Na!

My last post on this topic, feel free to call me a whiner again. LMAO.

Jesus, yet another Dot Com tough guy