DNP and cancer

[bigrand]

Was talking to a couple people recently about DNP and they said i was nuts "phenols cause cancer".

I also know that has been a knock on DNP on this board over the years.
Yes PHENOL causes cancer but not everything with a phenol.
Acetominophen and salycilic acid are phenolic compounds (arene or aromatic ring with an OH group)...do they cause cancer?
Hell, acetominophen IS phenol, only difference is a substituent at the 3 carbon.


Benzene causes cancer.....valium has a benzene group.....does that mean it causes cancer?


NO!!!!!

Phenols and benzenes are used in many many compounds that arent carcinogenic.

BL...................
Not everything with a phenol causes cancer.

 

[MrRTTB]

I have the same opinion. I beleeve it's more liky I will get canser from my cell phone than from DNP. The sad thing is noone seems to have dnp anymore

 

[manny78]

DNP is just too risky for most of us. How many here truly need DNP to cut ? How many really reached the point where DNP was the only solution to cut some fat ? Few. I always laugh when I see some post about a guy willing to try this cause he's 15%. Damn, people have been cutting for decades without DNP...

 

[Mandinka2]

DNP is a competition drug end of story ,anything strong enough to increase the incidence of cataracts is just far too dangerous to be used unless ur in this to put food on the table for your kids.

 

[bigrand]

So far, its been the only thing that works consitantly. Ive used all kinds of Stims and diets/cardio, but i seem to hold fat regardless. I believe i have some kind of hormone imbalance or sensitivity (many do when it comes to fat)....and DNP is really the only thing ive found that works regardless of how my fat is affected by other weight loss methods. At 400mg/day, about the only thing i get is some sweating, and that is acceptable. Other than that, i dont even have bad workouts!

 

[EngiCream]

So far, its been the only thing that works consitantly. Ive used all kinds of Stims and diets/cardio, but i seem to hold fat regardless. I believe i have some kind of hormone imbalance or sensitivity (many do when it comes to fat)....and DNP is really the only thing ive found that works regardless of how my fat is affected by other weight loss methods. At 400mg/day, about the only thing i get is some sweating, and that is acceptable. Other than that, i dont even have bad workouts!

no no no....you're taking the easy way out.....just up your diet and cardio...that's all you need!

Listen to me, I've read the MSDS, I know what I'm talking about....this stuff is bad!

(I'm just trying to save you from yourself)

 

[WannaImpress]

no no no....you're taking the easy way out.....just up your diet and cardio...that's all you need!

Listen to me, I've read the MSDS, I know what I'm talking about....this stuff is bad!

(I'm just trying to save you from yourself)

LOL.....this is coming from EngiCream? Can you say sarcasm?

 

[bigrand]

Egni telling me to not use DNP? Come on bro, i know you use it too......its ok........you can....admit it.

 

[macrophage69alpha]

IMHO use of anti-oxidents is essential with DNP.

is DNP a carcinogen- according to research. NO

though the metabolic stress that it causes absolutely necessitates oxidative damage control

 

[bigrand]

Mac, ive been curious, what is the stress caused by?
I take it free radicals from stored fat.....H+ arent radical.....anywhere else? Im in the middle of ochem, so this shit is getting more understandable.
Any specific origins of oxidizing radicals?

 

[bigrand]

BTW, i agree, take your vitamins.....with any time your loosing weight fast, but most importantly with DNP because the rate at which fat loss occurs.

 

[macrophage69alpha]

Any specific origins of oxidizing radicals?

mitochondria


though also the many lipid soluble toxins that are released with rapid fat loss

 

[neurotic]

DNP is a competition drug end of story ,anything strong enough to increase the incidence of cataracts is just far too dangerous to be used unless ur in this to put food on the table for your kids.

Nolvadex also increases the incidence of cataracts and that doesn't make it strong...

 

[Mandinka2]

Nolvadex also increases the incidence of cataracts and that doesn't make it strong...

Interesting .... got a source for that?

 

[brownpaperbag04]

the term carcinogenic is a joke anyway. hot coffee is carcinogenic...does that mean you're going to get cancer from drinking hot coffee? No.

 

[macrophage69alpha]

clomid and nolva cause visual disturbances.

and

Breast Cancer Res Treat. 2000 Mar;60(2):167-72. Related Articles, Links


Eye problems in breast cancer patients treated with tamoxifen.

Paganini-Hill A, Clark LJ.

Department of Preventive Medicine, Keck School of Medicine of the University of Southern California, Los Angeles, USA. [email protected]

BACKGROUND: Tamoxifen is an oral anti-estrogen used in the treatment of breast cancer and recently approved to reduce the incidence of breast cancer in high risk women. As a large clinical trial of tamoxifen has reported an increased risk of cataract, we conducted a study of women with breast cancer to evaluate the association of tamoxifen with cataracts and other eye problems. METHODS: We attempted to recruit previously interviewed patients who were cases in a population-based case-control study of 2653 women with primary breast cancer diagnosed between 1987 and 1996 at ages 55-72 years in Los Angeles County, California, USA. In November 1997, each case was mailed a questionnaire to ascertain self-reported incidence of eye diseases and Amsler grid test scores. Information from 1297 women aged 57-75 years of age was analyzed. Women reporting treatment with tamoxifen were categorized as standard-term users (4-5 years), short-term users (<4 years), or long-term users (6+ years) and compared to non-users. All p-values, relative risks, and confidence intervals for differences in eye problems and grid test results are adjusted for age and stage of disease at diagnosis. FINDINGS: Standard-term and long-term users of tamoxifen more frequently reported developing cataracts than non-users (18.2%, 21.4% vs. 14.8%). The relative risk was 1.40 (95% confidence interval 0.94-2.10) for standard-term users and 1.70 (1.11-2.59) for long-term users. Tamoxifen use was unrelated to frequency of glaucoma or macular degeneration or to Amsler grid test results. INTERPRETATION: Our study suggests that five or more years of tamoxifen use increases risk of cataracts. Healthy women considering tamoxifen use to reduce risk of breast cancer should be advised of the possibility of cataract development. Women choosing such therapy should be diligent about receiving regular ocular exams.

 

[bigrand]

I dont think the term is a joke.....
If something is carcinogenic, it means it causes cancer. Thats not a joke......hot coffee carcinogenic?

In this case, its important becasue Phenol and Benzene are SERIOUS carcinogens....we aint talkin saccarin (sp) here.
Molecules with phenol groups in them arent neccesarilly carcinogenic, which is the message here.

Mac, what comes from the michtocondria? I thought that when uncoupled, H+ flow from the ETC, but those arent oxidizing...there are other things?

 

[macrophage69alpha]

there is some evidence of increased levels of free radicals within the mitochondria itself, as opposed to outside (which are reduced).

also as mentioned above general increases in lipid peroxidation.

 

[macrophage69alpha]

further reason to supplement r-ala (glucorell) and NAC, as well as other anti-ox with DNP

Toxicol Lett. 1995 Nov 15;81(2-3):115-23. Related Articles, Links


Thiols metabolism is altered by the herbicides paraquat, dinoseb and 2,4-D: a study in isolated hepatocytes.

Palmeira CM, Moreno AJ, Madeira VM.

Department of Zoology, University of Coimbra, Portugal.

This report is an extension and complement of a previous study reporting the effect of three herbicides (paraquat, dinoseb and 2,4-D) on cell viability, GSH oxidation, NADH and ATP depletion (Arch. Toxicol. 68:24-31, 1994). Here we report additional data and findings aimed at a better understanding of the toxicity mechanisms induced by these herbicides. Biochemical mechanisms of cytotoxicity induced by the herbicides paraquat (1,1'-dimethyl-4,4'-bipyridylium dichloride), dinoseb (2-sec-butyl-4,6-dinitrophenol) and 2,4-D (2,4-dichlorophenoxyacetic acid) were investigated in freshly isolated rat hepatocytes. Herbicide metabolism, especially paraquat and 2,4-D, rapidly depletes GSH and protein thiols. Paraquat and 2,4-D (1-10 mM) decrease the GSH/GSSG ratio, promote loss of protein thiol contents and induce lipid peroxidation. Dinoseb, the most effective cytotoxic compound under study (used in concentrations 1000-fold lower than paraquat and 2,4-D), had moderate effects upon the GSH/GSSG ratio and lipid peroxidation, causing a depletion of protein thiols of about 20%. The results indicate that the herbicides paraquat and 2,4-D are hepatotoxic and may induce cell death by decreasing cellular GSH/GSSG ratio and protein thiols, and by inducing lipid peroxidation. The cytotoxic action of dinoseb is likely to be related with the uncoupling of oxidative phosphorylation in mitochondria. Therefore, it is likely that liver damage observed during the first phase of herbicide-intoxication is related to these metabolic processes.

(though DNP is not terribly hepatoxic, for instance Sodium usinate causes complete interruption of hepatic OP at 1/50 the dose)

 

[bigrand]

Shit, i wonder what its doing inside tha michtochondria besides uncoupleing and allowing H+ to flow from the ETC?
Ive known about release of radicals from adipose, but im gonna look into what is goining on in the mito.....

I would never recomend SA or UA. Fat burning effects are worse than DNP anyway.

 

[EngiCream]

I dont think the term is a joke.....
If something is carcinogenic, it means it causes cancer. Thats not a joke......hot coffee carcinogenic?

In this case, its important becasue Phenol and Benzene are SERIOUS carcinogens....we aint talkin saccarin (sp) here.
Molecules with phenol groups in them arent neccesarilly carcinogenic, which is the message here.

My post was of course a joke....not about the possible dangers of DNP, but mainly poking fun at people's ignorant comments based on reading ONE paper (or whatever).

I mean, it's one thing to give your opinion when you know all sides.....it's another when you give you opinion based on one piece of info.



Here's something that looks like it could be helpful along with DNP...it's called MitoQ (Mitoquinone)

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=MitoQ

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=Mitoquinone

http://groups.google.com/groups?q=MitoQ&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&scoring=d

http://groups.google.com/groups?q=Mitoquinone&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&scoring=d


http://www.animalkits.be/phpBB/viewtopic.php?topic=8471&forum=11&6

Search for MitoQ or Mitoquinone here:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=PubMed