did PCT and I'm not "back"

[MrRTTB]

Hi everyone

I did a long cycle and are today not quite "back". I started the cycle in the late july, 500mg testosterone and 400mg EQ, I also did 3 weeks dbol anavar at 30mg all the way until late october(the anavar..). Livervalues were ok as with kidneys and other blood values.
I stepped off november 25 and I was on for about 16-17weeks. Week 12 I did 1000ie HCG, also same week 15. I stepped off with prop so I was "clear" about in the first week of december. I did HCG as this was a long cycle, I did 500iu ED for 10days. I followed up with nolva and some Clomid.

Right now my sexdrive is not in check. I get a hardon but it's not 100% hard if you know what I mean. My testicles bounced back when I started the HCG but are today a little smaller than on the HCG.

I would like to know if I should do another run of HCG for a 10-14days at 500ie per day, then follow this with nolvadex/clomid 20/100 for 14days and then 20/50mg for another 15days.

I would appreciate the help, thanks!

 

[Vicious cycle]

Your thoughts are correct, IMHO.

 

[sigmund]

I agree, I think you need to continue with HCG / Nolva / Clomid for a little longer (but don't over-do the duration / dose on HCG).

Have you got your pre-cycle blood work? If so get some current values to compare it to. It'll greatly assist in knowing where you are in terms of recovery and help identify where a problem may lie (i.e. elevated estradiol, lagging FSH, LH).

 

[MrRTTB]

would proviron while doing the hcg be a big no no?

 

[Goldprospector]

My opinion is that you should take 2 injections of HCG @ 2500IU's, 3 days apart. I would run nolva for at least another 14 days. I personally would have already been on some herbal stuff that increases free Test levels. I personally respond very well to "Post Cycle" from Protien Factory. I am currently on it after my Deca cycle and am feeling great. A lot of people will oppose the use of herbals, but don't knock them until your have tried them. I take two caps in the morning and two in the evening and usually by the time I have finished one bottle, I feel good enough to go without it...Later blood tests have always comfirmed complete recoveries...and I am 38 years old.

 

[MrRTTB]

My opinion is that you should take 2 injections of HCG @ 2500IU's, 3 days apart. I would run nolva for at least another 14 days. I personally would have already been on some herbal stuff that increases free Test levels. I personally respond very well to "Post Cycle" from Protien Factory. I am currently on it after my Deca cycle and am feeling great. A lot of people will oppose the use of herbals, but don't knock them until your have tried them. I take two caps in the morning and two in the evening and usually by the time I have finished one bottle, I feel good enough to go without it...Later blood tests have always comfirmed complete recoveries...and I am 38 years old.

Thanks. Ok this is my plan then

Day 1 - 20: HCG 1000ie EOD
Day 1 - 20: 20mg nolvadex + 50mg clomid
Day 21 - 40: 20mg Nolvadex + 50mg Clomid
Day 41 - 55: Clenbuterol

Also:

Day 1 - 60: Inositol 5000mg ED

I will now order from the PF as I live in the EU and the shipping will take to long and cost too much. I will buy avena sativa and tribulus though.

 

[yomama]

Try some tongkat ali extract. If that dont work, I dont know what will.

 

[slat1]

Thanks. Ok this is my plan then

Day 1 - 20: HCG 1000ie EOD
Day 1 - 20: 20mg nolvadex + 50mg clomid
Day 21 - 40: 20mg Nolvadex + 50mg Clomid
Day 41 - 55: Clenbuterol

Also:

Day 1 - 60: Inositol 5000mg ED

I will now order from the PF as I live in the EU and the shipping will take to long and cost too much. I will buy avena sativa and tribulus though.

Some info for you to think about:
"Doses of HCG-
Smaller doses, more frequently during a cycle will give best overall results with least unwanted side effects. Somewhere between 500iu and 1000iu per day would be best over about a two-week period. These doses are sufficient to avoid/rectify testicular atrophy without increasing oestrogen levels too dramatically and risking gynecomastia. This dosing schedule also avoids the risk of permanently down-regulating the LH receptors in the testes."
"HCG administration post-cycle is common practice among bodybuilders in the belief that it will aid the natural testosterone recovery, but this theory is unfounded and also counterproductive. The rapid rise in both testosterone, and thus oestrogen due to aromatisation, from the administration of HCG causes further inhibition of the HPTA (Hypothalamic/Pituitary/Testicular Axis - feedback loop discussed above); this actually worsens the recovery situation. HCG does not restore the natural testosterone production."

 

[MrRTTB]

Some info for you to think about:
"Doses of HCG-
Smaller doses, more frequently during a cycle will give best overall results with least unwanted side effects. Somewhere between 500iu and 1000iu per day would be best over about a two-week period. These doses are sufficient to avoid/rectify testicular atrophy without increasing oestrogen levels too dramatically and risking gynecomastia. This dosing schedule also avoids the risk of permanently down-regulating the LH receptors in the testes."
"HCG administration post-cycle is common practice among bodybuilders in the belief that it will aid the natural testosterone recovery, but this theory is unfounded and also counterproductive. The rapid rise in both testosterone, and thus oestrogen due to aromatisation, from the administration of HCG causes further inhibition of the HPTA (Hypothalamic/Pituitary/Testicular Axis - feedback loop discussed above); this actually worsens the recovery situation. HCG does not restore the natural testosterone production."

I know that shit, but I do not beleeve it. 3 weeks will not make much "harm", even doctors I've spoken to says the same thing.

 

[sigmund]

Smaller doses more frequently (of HCG) are safer but with those who are shut down hard Endo's often go with the higher doses (see Jenetic's experience with his PCT after being shut down for 12 months + on PCT board).

In your case I'd go with the smaller dose, as you mention you can get an erection, indicating you're partly recovered.

Are your balls back to pre-cycle size or are they still atrophied? I realise it's not always easy to tell but if they're noticeably atrophied then HCG should be effective. As mentioned previously, if you can get it - blood work would come in handy to see where your levels are.

Keep going with the Nolva / Clomid. As other guys have stated on this thread herbals / vitamins can assist too. I notice a definite increase in libido on Tongkat Ali (extract 100:1 or 200:1).

I wouldn't suggest Proviron but it's debatable as to whether it'll keep you shut down, my personal preference when going through PCT is to keep clean of all exogenous androgens / AAS.

 

[MrRTTB]

Smaller doses more frequently (of HCG) are safer but with those who are shut down hard Endo's often go with the higher doses (see Jenetic's experience with his PCT after being shut down for 12 months + on PCT board).

In your case I'd go with the smaller dose, as you mention you can get an erection, indicating you're partly recovered.

Are your balls back to pre-cycle size or are they still atrophied? I realise it's not always easy to tell but if they're noticeably atrophied then HCG should be effective. As mentioned previously, if you can get it - blood work would come in handy to see where your levels are.

Keep going with the Nolva / Clomid. As other guys have stated on this thread herbals / vitamins can assist too. I notice a definite increase in libido on Tongkat Ali (extract 100:1 or 200:1).

I wouldn't suggest Proviron but it's debatable as to whether it'll keep you shut down, my personal preference when going through PCT is to keep clean of all exogenous androgens / AAS.

I will continue the nolva+clomid and step on the HCG, my balls are not at the same size as when I was on HCG last time I can tell you that.

 

[solidspine]

Do not have an answer for you but don't worry, with that much EQ it is not unusual to be delayed in your recovery. Deca does it to people too. I don't think HCG for 10-14 days is going to do much, I think it is simply a matter of time.

 

[Dial_tone]

imo pct is there to jumpstart recovery, not complete. You shouldn't expect to be normal a month later. I did pct and it was still 10-12 weeks before I really felt normal again.