Deca Only - Should I bother?

[riverrock]

Hello All,

I have a fair bit of Nandrolone upstairs that I would like to use. I won't stack it with Test as I will be using Finasteride soon. Nandrolone is easy on the hair, but I need to use it soon. Am I totally wasting my time doing at Deca only 400mg cycle for about 6 weeks? I am 12% BF, 5'8 and 80KG with a few Test cycles behind me.

 

[bbkingpin]

No, not at all. Deca-only works great for me. It's all you need unless you're that worried about libido.

 

[JumpBallWinner]

My first cycle ever (well, I don't even think it would actually qualify as a "cycle") was 400mg of deca a week. It was gonna be for 10wks, but being new and stupid to the drug world, I tried to buy it one bottle at a time and of course when it came time to get my second bottle it didn't happen on time. So I ended up with about a 5wk cycle of deca only. Still, I gained about 10lbs and my strength went up amazingly in that short period of time. But, my receptors were virgin so the drug was probably having a bigger effect on my body than it would someone with a couple cycles under their belt. I'd say that you should try to get your hands on a little bit more if you can and run that for 10wks instead of 6wks and you'll probably see pretty nice gains. Especially if your diet is in check.

 

[boops]

well i wouldnt do it for 6 weeks and if thats the only amount you have to run it for wait unitl you get some more, the longer acting stuff takes a bit to start to "feel it" and your just getting going by the time your gonna end it....

 

[mrplunkey]

Deca @ 450/week did the trick for me -- best gains ever. I only did 250 mg's/week of test with it too, but I was paniced that pure deca would mess up my libido.

 

[scout69]

Deffinately Im currently running a Cycle of Norma 400mg a week and 250 mg a week for 10 weeks

 

[bilter]

first inj cycle I ever did was deca only and only at 200mg per week. still made great gains although it was only my second cycle. You should go at least 8 weeks though

 

[LVTitan]

i see no problem with running a deca only cycle. i love deca. i would run it longer though, in my opinion 6 weeks is too short for a deca cycle. it's long acting gear, i would go 8 weeks minimum, 10 weeks preferrably

 

[buckwheat1]

I know I would gain off of that amount for 6 weeks but the problem is really the recovery. Deca can suppress more and longer than other substances. So you could lose some of the limited gains.

From the time that you stop Deca, it may take 4 weeks or so to clear out enough so that your body will start recovering.

I remember reading a study where Deca prohibited HCG from working on the testes. Even at low dosages.

I personally have found some evidence of this. HCG did not seem to really do much when I was running pure DECA. Testical fullness being the only test of this.

I like DECA and I ran it several times by itself without any issues. In fact, libido and other sexual parmeters all went up.

But I only ran for 1/2 - 2/3 of my cycle and then switch to EQ for at least 4 weeks while running an estrogen suppressor.

This way I was only dealing with normal suppression and not the progesterine related suppression when post recovery comes.

All of my recoveries have went well this way.

 

[bigrand]

I like deca for 12+ weeks. Great shit. I dont feel like ass like i do on test after 6-8 weeks. No real crash either, nor libido problems. I get more libido probs with test and high dbol.

 

[LVTitan]

I know I would gain off of that amount for 6 weeks but the problem is really the recovery. Deca can suppress more and longer than other substances. So you could lose some of the limited gains.

From the time that you stop Deca, it may take 4 weeks or so to clear out enough so that your body will start recovering.

I remember reading a study where Deca prohibited HCG from working on the testes. Even at low dosages.

I personally have found some evidence of this. HCG did not seem to really do much when I was running pure DECA. Testical fullness being the only test of this.

I like DECA and I ran it several times by itself without any issues. In fact, libido and other sexual parmeters all went up.

But I only ran for 1/2 - 2/3 of my cycle and then switch to EQ for at least 4 weeks while running an estrogen suppressor.

This way I was only dealing with normal suppression and not the progesterine related suppression when post recovery comes.

All of my recoveries have went well this way.

and only running eq for 4 weeks??
bro dont mean to talk shit, but if you were happy with your gains, imagine if you had actually run a compound long enough to see true results.. !! you'd probably be fucking amazed.

 

[Güclü_oglan]

hi bro been a while

i'd say 400mg for 6 weeks can give some boost but i think it's pretty short for deca, i would rather save it for later adventures :

 

[pompste]

Hi,
Deca will lubricate your joints and make them feel great!

 

[BOWTECH]

Deca does the body good

 

[riverrock]

hi bro been a while

i'd say 400mg for 6 weeks can give some boost but i think it's pretty short for deca, i would rather save it for later adventures :

Welcome back Bro. I haven't been posting as much lately either. Work pressure and all that. However, good to be on board again and good to see you back.

 

[buckwheat1]

and only running eq for 4 weeks??
bro dont mean to talk shit, but if you were happy with your gains, imagine if you had actually run a compound long enough to see true results.. !! you'd probably be fucking amazed.

Cycles were 8-12 weeks of anabolics. I was looking for a comestic effect in muscle and weightloss. I got what I wanted. Don't be confused by the fact that I may have done DECA for 8 weeks and EQ only for 4 weeks. I know that there are alot of people that think that EQ doesn't start working until week 3 or 4 (or some amount of time). Thats bullshit. Even anabolics like DECA and EQ that have a long 1/2 life, cause large increases in the body even the first day. While DECA may be more anabolic mg per mg. The fact that I continued to inject a anabolic substance with a similiar half life means that the EQ for 4 weeks is just a continuation of 8 weeks of anabolics. The body doesn't say, "Oh shit, you changed the compound. Now it going to take x amount of time to start working.". It just sees anabolic substances attaching to androgen receptors. In my case , that went on for 12 weeks.

I told nobody about my use of steroids but had several people ask me if I had taken them. So while the numbers seem small, my physical appearance changed enough for people to ask.

I enjoy a number of activity like tennis and skiing for example and found that even the moderate amounts of muscle tended to decrease performance rather that increase it.

By the way , I am 42 years old now and was 40 when I did my first cycle. It is more important to me to be safe then to try to add huge amounts of muscle. That is why the cycle was the way it was and the amounts did not exceed 600mg on average.

 

[LVTitan]

for the most part i disagree with you bro. different compounds work different ways. i would get way better results from a 10 week cycle of test e at 500mg/week than i would if i did primo for one week, then shot deca for one week, then shot tren for one week, then shot some test e for one week, then shot winny for one week, and then started over again for a total of 10 weeks..

and i dont buy your excuse that increased muscle mass will decrease your physical abilty. sure you may be more flexible than jay cutler, but you're not going to get so big that you cant be competetive in sports, especially with the type of cycles you are suggesting.

 

[uglyass]

buckwheat you are wrong bro, yes the gear starts working straight away but it is the cumulative effect of the level of gear building up in your system and the real effects come when you have run the drug long enough to allow the active amount in your bloodstream to increase up to the optimum (or a significant) dose for you.

After one day you will have a very small amount of active ingredient doing anything. Like LV says, run it longer and then you will see it's true effects. If safety is a concern lower the dose and run it longer - just a suggestion bro, it's your body.

Riverrock, go for it. Deca on it's own isn't the best but it's better than nothing. Keep the protein intake high with deca.

UglyASS

 

[uglyass]

Riverrock, how long are you going to leave it after the deca before using the test? Better let the deca out the system before hitting the finastride bro.

UglyASS

 

[buckwheat1]

for the most part i disagree with you bro. different compounds work different ways. i would get way better results from a 10 week cycle of test e at 500mg/week than i would if i did primo for one week, then shot deca for one week, then shot tren for one week, then shot some test e for one week, then shot winny for one week, and then started over again for a total of 10 weeks..

and i dont buy your excuse that increased muscle mass will decrease your physical abilty. sure you may be more flexible than jay cutler, but you're not going to get so big that you cant be competetive in sports, especially with the type of cycles you are suggesting.

Most steroids work mainly through stimulation of the androgen receptor. Different compounds do provide different effects within the body. For example, highly androgenic compounds can increase strength through CNS stimulation. DHT does this as well as compounds like Tren and Dianabol.
The androgenic component may help muscle gain by allowing longer and harder workouts. Compounds like testosterone increase estrogen which has been shown to increase IGF-1. Obviously IGF-1 is anabolic.

But I am not sure what that has to do with my original statement. I ran DECA for 8 weeks. During those 8 weeks, I gained from that. Because of DECA special abilities to inhibit recovery, I wanted to make sure that it had cleared from my system prior to starting recovery. So I switched to EQ at the same dosage for 4 weeks.

For me, my work outs seemed to continue as normal. I did not feel any difference when I switched except I dropped a few pounds in water weight. I did not lose any strength.

Deca added 8-10 pounds in the first week or so of water. So shedding some of that actually made me feel better and my weight loss that occurred started to become more evident. I also started using a bit of armidex and that also kept the water down from the EQ.

After stopping a cycle, I feel the difference even as early as the second week. So if the EQ wasn't working when I switched I would have known. If nothing else, it allowed me to maintain my gains until the progesterone had cleared from my system.

The discussion that we are having deals with the fact that I switch from one compound to another. So what were my options.

1) Deca for 12 weeks and deal with supression that may have cost me gains.
2) EQ for 12 weeks which I do not believe is nearly as anabolic as DECA.
3) Use another substance.

I do believe that I was better off with gains using my approach than running EQ for 12 weeks. It is weaker and I didn't want to find out what would happen going right into PCT from my last shot of DECA.

I also wasn't willing to try more androgenic substances. I experienced hair thinning (temporary) from the DECA and because of my age, I wanted to go with more anabolic substances.

 

[bigrand]

I ran deca at 450mg a week for 16 weeks and the balls were normal size after a week and a half of pct using only trib and let. (i waited 4 weeks after last shot though).

 

[buckwheat1]

buckwheat you are wrong bro, yes the gear starts working straight away but it is the cumulative effect of the level of gear building up in your system and the real effects come when you have run the drug long enough to allow the active amount in your bloodstream to increase up to the optimum (or a significant) dose for you.

After one day you will have a very small amount of active ingredient doing anything. Like LV says, run it longer and then you will see it's true effects. If safety is a concern lower the dose and run it longer - just a suggestion bro, it's your body.

Riverrock, go for it. Deca on it's own isn't the best but it's better than nothing. Keep the protein intake high with deca.

UglyASS

Anabolics with large half-lifes do accummalte over time. But even after the first day, siginficant blood levels of DECA or EQ are going to be seen. But I don't agree that the reason why some people say that it takes 3-4 weeks for a substance to kick in is because it takes that long for blood levels to reach a high enough dosage.

They may increase over time and it may take several weeks to reach a stable stable state, but significant amounts of AAS will be present from the very beginning.

It is my contention that it is the ability of the body to respond to AAS increase over the first few weeks.

For example, lets say we use something like non-esterized testosterone.

Because of the short half life daily injections would be required. It would be possible to then make sure that the level of AAS injected on day one of the cycle was the same as day 21.

My contention is that even though the same number of AAS molecules are present in the system on day 1 and day 21, the effects on anabolism will differ. This is because the body responds to AAS and certain processes are set into motion. Over the first few weeks your body adapts to the increase in AAS and up-regulates certain anabolic processes. These processes do not occur immediately when the androgen receptor is activated but are set in motion and can continue for some time after words. So the rise in anabolism is not linear even if the number of AAS molecules remains the same. Of course, this process does not continue to rise indefinetely

Also, even if gains were linear over the first 4 weeks, it just take time to notice gains. This also results in people thinking that nothing really is happening until several weeks out.

This discussion started because I stated I used Deca for 8 weeks and then switch to EQ for 4 weeks. Some people think that the EQ has to build up to be effective. This is not true. The major anabolic processes were set into place by 8 weeks of DECA use. EQ continued those. There was no need for EQ to build up to be effective.

 

[buckwheat1]

I ran deca at 450mg a week for 16 weeks and the balls were normal size after a week and a half of pct using only trib and let. (i waited 4 weeks after last shot though).

I might have recovered fine also. From the studies and user experience, it indicated the suppressive effects of DECA where much higher and longer than other substances.

Many people also complain of DECA dick. But I felt great. My libido increased, my hardness increased , and I had increased ejaculate resulting in better orgasm. So while generalization can be made about a substance, individual response can differ greatly.


I remember reading a study about inhibition and recovery from AAS. The difference among people was extemely wide. From this we can generalize that AAS causes suppression of testosterone and that it takes a certain amount of time for normal testosterone production to return. But it may take one person only a few weeks to get back to a normal state and months for another person.

It start off with the best information from there and then use experience to guide you as it becomes available.

 

[buckwheat1]

for the most part i disagree with you bro. different compounds work different ways. i would get way better results from a 10 week cycle of test e at 500mg/week than i would if i did primo for one week, then shot deca for one week, then shot tren for one week, then shot some test e for one week, then shot winny for one week, and then started over again for a total of 10 weeks..

and i dont buy your excuse that increased muscle mass will decrease your physical abilty. sure you may be more flexible than jay cutler, but you're not going to get so big that you cant be competetive in sports, especially with the type of cycles you are suggesting.

I didn't state that increased muscle mass will decrease physical abilities. It depends on what your activity is.

For sports like tennis and golf, which I play, it probably is helpful for your whole body to be toned and have a certain level of strength. But I have found that when I was on cycle that it seemed to effect my performance somewhat. It is not because I am muscle bound. Maybe it takes time for the CNS to adapt to the increase in muscle. I don't know. I only did a cycle once a year for summer. So, after the cycle the muscle is lost over the next 4-6 months. Maybe if I continued to cycle or do more cycles, I would adapt better to the increase. But I have no desire to do this.

 

[LVTitan]

okay

 

[uglyass]

Anabolics with large half-lifes do accummalte over time.

Our point exactly.

But even after the first day, siginficant blood levels of DECA or EQ are going to be seen.

No, not significant. If that was the case you could gain off one shot of Deca every 3 weeks.

But I don't agree that the reason why some people say that it takes 3-4 weeks for a substance to kick in is because it takes that long for blood levels to reach a high enough dosage.

It "kicks in" before then but not really enough to have a noticeable effect.

They may increase over time and it may take several weeks to reach a stable stable state, but significant amounts of AAS will be present from the very beginning.

Significant? Yes, significant that it could be detected in a blood test but not a significant enough amount to cause an increase in muscular hypertrophy.

For example, lets say we use something like non-esterized testosterone.

That's a completely different situation from Deca or EQ and yes, because of the short half life you will notice a difference very quickly. Same with dbol, tbol, fina etc etc.

So the rise in anabolism is not linear even if the number of AAS molecules remains the same. Of course, this process does not continue to rise indefinetely

Like I said above, it's a cumulative effect that builds up over time as the active amount of AAS in your body increases.

Also, even if gains were linear over the first 4 weeks, it just take time to notice gains. This also results in people thinking that nothing really is happening until several weeks out.

Yip, agreed. I never said it wasn't doing anything for the first few weeks, I said it builds up in your system.

Some people think that the EQ has to build up to be effective. This is not true.

I would say that depends on what dose you run, if you ran a gram/week then it would kick in faster (front loading). If you ran 300mg/week that would be a very low dose and you wouldn't notice much, if anything, until it reaches it's highest amount active in your body.

The major anabolic processes were set into place by 8 weeks of DECA use. EQ continued those. There was no need for EQ to build up to be effective.

All AAS interact with the androgen receptors differently causing different effects on the body. You could not run one drug for 8 weeks and then switch to another and expect the results to simply continue. You have administered a different drug which affects the body differently and therefore needs time to have it's benefits realized. It doesnt just continue were the other AAS left off.

Anyone else?

UglyASS

 

[buckwheat1]

Our point exactly.



No, not significant. If that was the case you could gain off one shot of Deca every 3 weeks.



It "kicks in" before then but not really enough to have a noticeable effect.



Significant? Yes, significant that it could be detected in a blood test but not a significant enough amount to cause an increase in muscular hypertrophy.



That's a completely different situation from Deca or EQ and yes, because of the short half life you will notice a difference very quickly. Same with dbol, tbol, fina etc etc.



Like I said above, it's a cumulative effect that builds up over time as the active amount of AAS in your body increases.



Yip, agreed. I never said it wasn't doing anything for the first few weeks, I said it builds up in your system.



I would say that depends on what dose you run, if you ran a gram/week then it would kick in faster (front loading). If you ran 300mg/week that would be a very low dose and you wouldn't notice much, if anything, until it reaches it's highest amount active in your body.



All AAS interact with the androgen receptors differently causing different effects on the body. You could not run one drug for 8 weeks and then switch to another and expect the results to simply continue. You have administered a different drug which affects the body differently and therefore needs time to have it's benefits realized. It doesnt just continue were the other AAS left off.

Anyone else?

UglyASS

For the moment, we will have to just disagree. I will try to look up supporting evidence for my claims. Unfortunetely this means I have to do some things up to hopefully prove my point.

 

[uglyass]

No probs bro

UglyASS

 

[LVTitan]

All AAS interact with the androgen receptors differently causing different effects on the body. You could not run one drug for 8 weeks and then switch to another and expect the results to simply continue. You have administered a different drug which affects the body differently and therefore needs time to have it's benefits realized. It doesnt just continue were the other AAS left off.

Anyone else?

UglyASS

that's the point i was trying to make

 

[buckwheat1]

that's the point i was trying to make

And this is the point I am debating. Steriods exert influences on the body in various ways. Some of these are known and understood while others are not.

There is both direct and indirect influences. Direct influences would be caused by the binding of androgen to the AR. This sets into motion processes that eventually lead to protein synthesis. All steriods seem to work via this method, while some weakly and others more strongly. From what I have read, when the androgen attaches to the AR, the AR is either turned on or off. There is no in between. Some androgens bind tightly and are exert there influence longer than weaker androgens. From my research, I have found that there only 1 type of androgen receptor that has been identified and that they may difference caused from different androgens is due to the affinity and length of time that the androgen stimulates the AR.

I am not saying that direct AR binding is the only mechanism that occurs but it probably is the major component in substances like Primo, Deca, and EQ. I believe these are grouped together because they are high anabolic and low androgenic compounds.

There are other factors that have found in my research, but when I cross reference the substances above, I keep finding for the most part that each substance roughly exhibit the same influences through the same mechanism . The only difference is that some may have a lesser or greater influence on an area.

But my premise remains.. The use of 8 weeks of Deca follwed by 4 week of EQ was sound and that the majority and the major processes that were under way via the use of DECA continued with the use of EQ. EQ did not have to build up in order to work.

I will say again, I am not saying that there is not difference between DECA and EQ , but I am saying that the major and significant pathways to protein synthesis are shared between the two. EQ is less anabolic not because it acts through different mechanism but rather because is bind less strongly to the androgen receptor.

From my research, I also find that most of the same pathways are activated with testosterone. But testosterone is much more androgenic then DECA or EQ so this can effect the body particularly related to strength gains.


If I were to switch from using TEST for 8 weeks to EQ, I would expect that two things might occur. The androgenic aspect will be reduced and the also EQ is weaker compound. But the debate is whether the majority of EQ influence on the body is somehow reduced since it only has been ran for 4 weeks. In my opinion that answer is no. The major pathways in protein synthesis do not stop and start over just because similiar compounds like DECA and EQ and switched.

The androgen receptor will continue to be activated and protein synthesis continues. If the synthesis is weaker it is because the compound is weaker, not because it is the first week of a new substance.


I am still looking at a ton of material. I really think this area is misunderstood and I am trying to make sense of it. So I hopefully will post something later that may help explain some of this. I welcome others to present evidence that the major pathways between DECA and EQ vastly differ. I spent quite abit of time making a list of all of the factors influenced by steriods then I tried to take each one of them and looked them up for each steriod. Since I found that for the most part each Steriod (DECA and EQ) worked via the same methods. With the only difference being that each may influence pathways to various degrees.

 

[uglyass]

I don't think the androgen receptor is either on or off with the difference being how strongly one compund binds to the receptor than another, otherwise we could use the compund that binds strongest at a lower dose.

I do see what you're getting at however, I am going to PM a few knowlegeable bros and see if they will comment further as I'd like to know myself.

UglyASS

 

[uglyass]

I have already PM'ed the guy who wrote this but here is a post that should help, I still think I'm right in that the effect each AAS produces is different and therefore cannot be continued when a different steroid is administered. Perhaps the changeover period when switching compunds isn't as noticeable as one steroid is diminshing in your body as the other is building up.

Post

UglyASS

__________________________________
Post by Majutsu

Very simply, there is no such thing as a simple anabolic receptor. Any receptor, including the anabolic receptor, has multiple sub-receptors and co-factors. Tren binds strongly to the clumpy object called the anabolic receptor. Nandrolone binds differently, but still to the anabolic receptor. The proof of this is in looking at the microscopic "soup" released in the cell when the anabolic receptor is bound. When different anabolics bind to the anabolic receptor, different flavors of "soups", with different ratios of second messengers, mRNAs, etc, are released. Organisms are not so black-and-white, all-or-nothing, in their response. A receptor is like a board with 50 switches, any swipe of the hand which hits a few switches will basically "turn the lights on", but the lights may be dimmer or brighter, blue or red tinged in color, etc.

Interestingly, as I posted elsewhere recently, new research shows that dbol and winny, which were thought to act somewhere besides the anabolic receptor, because they don't bind well in a test tube protocal, were recently found to be very active at the anabolic receptor in living creatures. So it's a situation where enough switches are flipped by these molecules for them to be potent anabolics in the real world, but not enough or the right kind of sub-switches are activated for them to be identified in an outmoded test-tube protocol.

So all anabolics function at the anabolic receptor, as far as we know in 2005. But they all "swipe the switches" a little differently. So they will have different "anabolic characters" you can identify, and that's what I use to plan cycles. And they do have different side effects, which can be factored in to plan around individual sensitivities.

Androgenization is really a side effect. Testosterone binds to the anabolic receptor (hitting more switches and co-factors than any other synthetic -- answering your question in the other thread) in muscle. It also binds to certain receptors in prostate, skin, etc, and these are called androgen receptors. While there is similarity in shape, don't forget that nature isn't that simple-minded, and prostate receptors don't look just like skin receptors, and neither looks just like the muscle receptors. The fact that testosterone hits them all doesn't mean other molecules must. What makes an anabolic "androgenic" is how many of these prostate, skin, etc receptors that the drug hits.

If you do a search for some guy's question about class I and class II drugs a week or two ago, you will see the article referred to and a different elaboration of these same points.

 

[Makavelli]

All AAS will begin to work at the cellular level very quickly. However when dealing with optimal blood levels and long esters, such as deca, it takes awhile for the visual effects to kick in. When I start running a cycle I feel the effects within the first week, but they're very minimal. I look fuller and feel a little stronger. I also frontload long esters. The most evident effects take several weeks to see. I agree with Ugly that with AAS such as sust, EQ, and Deca they are better run in longer cycles lasting 10 weeks or more. Will you get gains in 6 weeks? Of course, but it won't be much. For the bro that posted the original question I would save the deca for later when you can run it longer.

 

[buckwheat1]

I have already PM'ed the guy who wrote this but here is a post that should help, I still think I'm right in that the effect each AAS produces is different and therefore cannot be continued when a different steroid is administered. Perhaps the changeover period when switching compunds isn't as noticeable as one steroid is diminshing in your body as the other is building up.

Post

UglyASS

__________________________________
Post by Majutsu

Very simply, there is no such thing as a simple anabolic receptor. Any receptor, including the anabolic receptor, has multiple sub-receptors and co-factors. Tren binds strongly to the clumpy object called the anabolic receptor. Nandrolone binds differently, but still to the anabolic receptor. The proof of this is in looking at the microscopic "soup" released in the cell when the anabolic receptor is bound. When different anabolics bind to the anabolic receptor, different flavors of "soups", with different ratios of second messengers, mRNAs, etc, are released. Organisms are not so black-and-white, all-or-nothing, in their response. A receptor is like a board with 50 switches, any swipe of the hand which hits a few switches will basically "turn the lights on", but the lights may be dimmer or brighter, blue or red tinged in color, etc.

Interestingly, as I posted elsewhere recently, new research shows that dbol and winny, which were thought to act somewhere besides the anabolic receptor, because they don't bind well in a test tube protocal, were recently found to be very active at the anabolic receptor in living creatures. So it's a situation where enough switches are flipped by these molecules for them to be potent anabolics in the real world, but not enough or the right kind of sub-switches are activated for them to be identified in an outmoded test-tube protocol.

So all anabolics function at the anabolic receptor, as far as we know in 2005. But they all "swipe the switches" a little differently. So they will have different "anabolic characters" you can identify, and that's what I use to plan cycles. And they do have different side effects, which can be factored in to plan around individual sensitivities.

Androgenization is really a side effect. Testosterone binds to the anabolic receptor (hitting more switches and co-factors than any other synthetic -- answering your question in the other thread) in muscle. It also binds to certain receptors in prostate, skin, etc, and these are called androgen receptors. While there is similarity in shape, don't forget that nature isn't that simple-minded, and prostate receptors don't look just like skin receptors, and neither looks just like the muscle receptors. The fact that testosterone hits them all doesn't mean other molecules must. What makes an anabolic "androgenic" is how many of these prostate, skin, etc receptors that the drug hits.

If you do a search for some guy's question about class I and class II drugs a week or two ago, you will see the article referred to and a different elaboration of these same points.

Actually I think it proves my point. First that the main action is via the AR. I read something similiar but explain the differences differently. The theory was that AR activation was the same but non-AR action of the different drugs could enhance or change the effect of the AR stimulated response.

But lets go with this new soup theory.

For me to be wrong, a couple things probably have to be true.

First, the switches set on by DECA and EQ would have to differ considerable. Because if 80% of the switches and the action of the switches were common, then my theory would hold weight. Because 80% of the action would continued.

Secondly, you assume that that it takes a long time (weeks) in order for the new substance to start causing switches to be turned on and doing something. I know that you or someone else taked about accumlation of the drug before it would work and I would like to post something later on this.

From the info I saw, while blood levels will increase, blood levels after the first day reach a level that is a large percentage of the highest blood level in week 2 or 3. This is assuming an esterized substance and the example I saw were for DECA. Its not like you x amount in week 1 and x*2 in week 2 and x*3 in week three.

Each type an androgen molecule enters the cell and attaches to an AR processes of protein synthesis will occur. Having a EQ molecule attach on day one of a cycle to the androgen receptor will basically be the same as it will on day 21. If it attaches it will cause a reaction.

If I started EQ from day one, it may take a certain amount of time before I see results. But this is because it takes time for the results of protein synthesis to accumlate and produce enough of a result. Not the blood level of steriods.

In my case, protein synthesis was already on going from the DECA and after my last shot would continue from the DECA. My results from the action of DECA on my androgen receptors will decline, while at the same time the results of the action of EQ on my androgen receptors is increasing. So moving from one substance to another results in a continuation of protein synthesis regardless if there exact means are the same.

Thanks for post that you responded with was interesting and I will try to see if I can find any info that it referred to.

 

[LVTitan]

both very informative and only leading me to more questions...

 

[uglyass]

I do think Deca and EQ are considerably different as they compliment each other so well in a cycle. lvtitan will testify to that I know for sure he is loved up with deca/EQ cycles.

You've slightly changed your story though you initialy said the second drug adminstered would carry on from where the other left off, now you're agreeing with what I said in that it doesn't continue the effects, the drop off simply isn't as noticeable as the other is becoming more effect over the time of the first drugs levels dropping.

Anyway, I've put my point over and I'm going to leave it at that as I don't have much else to offer on the topic. If you found any good studies please post them up as I'd like to have a read of them. Majutsu's post is a good analogy don't you think?

Anyway, K to you bro.

UglyASS

 

[LVTitan]

I do think Deca and EQ are considerably different as they compliment each other so well in a cycle. lvtitan will testify to that I know for sure he is loved up with deca/EQ cycles.


UglyASS

yes.. loved up.. got some deca/eq coming in the mail i'm waiting for it right now. no test.