Cutting before starting a bulk cycle

[Joe Stenson]

We all know it is best to start a bulking cycle at a low bodyfat percentage for multiple reasons. However, typically this means doing a natural cut before you start taking your bulking drugs. We also know that cutting naturally can be a great way to lose muscle mass if not done correctly. Now, a lot of us don't see great gains after a certain point in a cycle, say after 8 weeks. Half the time we end up running them for 10-12 weeks anyway, even though the majority of the gains came earlier in the cycle (and no, I'm not talking about water weight). What about using those extra 2-4 weeks that we really don't need on our bulk to cut briefly at the start of a cycle, and then go into our 8 week bulk which would continue through PCT?

I guess anyone could jump on me and say "If you're not seeing gains after week 8 then just end it there, and get the recovery process going more quickly". My point, however, is that I do need to cut before bulking and 2-4 weeks cutting on the sauce is more like double that without it. It's not like I need to drop a ton of fat at all, I never let the abs go entirely, but I look more like I want to at the end of a bulk than the start of one (in terms of bf %). And yes, my diet is fine and I do know how to cut without gear, but anyone saying it isn't more efficient to cut while "on" is full of it.

 

[oxymoron]

If you say for example your are on EQ/500wk and Sust/200wk are you spinning your wheels trying to cut up in the early weeks as both of those steroids need time to really activate in your system and your getting no androgenic benefits. I agree with you and I'm curious. I just started this cycle and I had no plans on turning down the cardio until about 4 wks into the cycle when I really start seeing the gains from the EQ.

 

[Joe Stenson]

I'm not really sure what to think in your situation. I would always either start a cycle with frontloading or some type of fast-acting gear. The cycle I was referring to in my question was going to be 600mg enth/week with either a 1200mg/week frontload for the first 2 weeks or 3-4 weeks of d-bol.

 

[oxymoron]

I would think that the anabolic and androgenic effects kick in in simutaneoulsly. So I would assume that getting after it in the beginning either cardio or lifting is not of as much of benefit as a lot of people think. I guess it is actually pretty basic.

 

[jeb0177]

bump

 

[Tryn2]

Im not sure, I think if one starts to see gains slow down they may need to look into there diet. I think if you were to increase kcals and especially protein intake and carb intake you may see gains pick up again. People would not stay on for long periods of time if it did not work. Not saying you should stay on long but if gains stagnate EAT MORE !!!!
You say you eat enough ??? How many people on here actually strive for 500 grams of protein a day ?? Too much you say.....Ok how many people are big enough now, are you happy with how big you are ? NO EAT MORE !!!

 

[Joe Stenson]

The specific question has more to do with whether it would be ok to cut the first few weeks of a cycle, instead of doing it naturally beforehand, which would take longer and be less effective. The fact that my gains, and many others, seem to stagnate after a certain period of time was merely to point out that I feel I really only need 8 weeks of bulking. Could I get bigger bulking for 12 or 16 weeks? Of course, but I'm not looking to gain 40lbs every cycle. 8 weeks of bulking achieves what I want in a single cycle, so I'm just wondering if I could extend the time on, but be cutting at the beginning? It seems like a reasonable idea to me...I'm just waiting for someone to tell me why it's not, that's all.

 

[ogilthorpe]

I'm in the same position. I'm cutting naturally before a bulker and unfortunately losing some muscle. I know of bulking for 8 weeks then cutting for 4 but not the other way around. Give it a shot-you seemed convinced it will work.

What are you going to start with while cutting? Winstrol, Primo, Tren? Then what are you moving into? If it's Test or Deca you may want to run those at the same time as your initial cutting phase and then phase in the bulking drugs and increase your diet. One thing to keep in mind is that your actual stomach (i.e. internally) will expand as you bulk. Do you want your stomach bigger at the end of the cycle (as you are suggesting) or the beginning (i.e. the first 8 weeks) and use the last 4 weeks to diet and get your stomach back to a more reasonable and less demanding size. Just a thought.

 

[Joe Stenson]

I'm in the same position. I'm cutting naturally before a bulker and unfortunately losing some muscle. I know of bulking for 8 weeks then cutting for 4 but not the other way around. Give it a shot-you seemed convinced it will work.

What are you going to start with while cutting? Winstrol, Primo, Tren? Then what are you moving into? If it's Test or Deca you may want to run those at the same time as your initial cutting phase and then phase in the bulking drugs and increase your diet. One thing to keep in mind is that your actual stomach (i.e. internally) will expand as you bulk. Do you want your stomach bigger at the end of the cycle (as you are suggesting) or the beginning (i.e. the first 8 weeks) and use the last 4 weeks to diet and get your stomach back to a more reasonable and less demanding size. Just a thought.

I don't plan on using different drugs at different points in the cycle. I already stated above what I planned on doing. I don't really believe in "cutting" drugs anyway. Your diet is going to determine how much bodyfat you lose...water weight is irrelevant. In other words, there's no reason you can't cut on test/deca/d-bol (the classic mass stack). Sure, you'll be holding more water while you're on, but you'll lose it eventually. Obviously if you're a competitive bodybuilder this changes, but most of us are not.

I don't really see the point in cutting at the end of a cycle to be honest. When you're doing your PCT you have to have your cals high and if you want to keep your gains you're probably going to gain some fat, so what's the point of getting lean for a few weeks while you're on and then fattening up again during PCT?

You say you're in the same position. That's my point, I think a lot of people are in this position. This is why I'm surprised that I've never heard of anyone doing what I suggested. I'm waiting for someone who has thought about doing this, and figured out why it is NOT a good idea, to convince me otherwise.

 

[Joe Stenson]

^

 

[oxymoron]

I'm in gear position where I think I may try it. I'm starting with 500/wk EQ and then adding in some sust. I'm adding the sust late because I haven't received it yet. For the first 3-4 weeks I'm going to alternate clen and ephedrine and keep my cals around 2500 with 60% proteins, 30% carbs and 10% fats. Cardio 4 times a week for 25 min. Unless a veteran chimes in that this is a major waste, I'll do it and post on how it goes.