Cortisol blockers?

[TheProject]

I posted this over on supps, but I think that board has about as much activity as the Music board.

I was going through some old magazines the other day, and found several articles and ads for cortisol blockers. Supposedly they're great for hardgainers.

Anyone ever try one of these things? Do they work at all?

I did a google search, and found this one:

http://store.yahoo.com/joemuscle/cort-bloc.html

which is comprised of:

Phosphatidylserine: 200mg
Glutamine peptide: 800mg

Makes me wonder if I should just add in some glutamine, or if the addition of phosphatidylserine is worthwhile.

 

[BigTimer]

u need something with more Phosphatidylserine, 200mg is to low i think

 

[MS]

Oral phosphatidylserine (more than 200mg per day though) may inhibit elevation of cortisol, but I would be wary that this is necessarily a good thing. Sure, chronic stress is a killer, but factors regulating muscle protein breakdown in human subjects are complex and interactive, and there is good evidence that acute post workout cortisol is an essential part of long term muscle growth and adaptation. In other words, you have to partly tear the muscle down so you can rebuild it bigger and better in the long term. I wouldn't use this supp if you're main aim is to maximize muscle growth.

 

[TheProject]

Oral phosphatidylserine (more than 200mg per day though) may inhibit elevation of cortisol, but I would be wary that this is necessarily a good thing. Sure, chronic stress is a killer, but factors regulating muscle protein breakdown in human subjects are complex and interactive, and there is good evidence that acute post workout cortisol is an essential part of long term muscle growth and adaptation. In other words, you have to partly tear the muscle down so you can rebuild it bigger and better in the long term. I wouldn't use this supp if you're main aim is to maximize muscle growth.

I was just getting ready to post this question over on the women's board for you! I missed your post over here.

Being a hardgainer, I was concerned that the ephedra I was taking in my AllegraD was affecting my ability to gain, so I stopped taking it. Afterwards, I discovered that even though I have no winter allergies, I'm congested all the time, and having trouble breathing. I went to the doctor, and she gave me two inhalers to try, one nasal, one oral. I know the nasal inhaler is Nasonex, but I don't remember what the other one is offhand.

From talking to spatts, I know that the ephedra was raising my cortisol levels, and now someone else said on another thread that the inhalers could be doing the same thing.

So, if I want to avoid phosphatidylserine:

1) Should I be at all concerned about the possible effects on my cortisol level by the inhaler?

2) What other supplements, in your opinion, are valuable for a hardgainer?

 

[Him1]

quote:
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Originally posted by MS
Oral phosphatidylserine (more than 200mg per day though) may inhibit elevation of cortisol, but I would be wary that this is necessarily a good thing. Sure, chronic stress is a killer, but factors regulating muscle protein breakdown in human subjects are complex and interactive, and there is good evidence that acute post workout cortisol is an essential part of long term muscle growth and adaptation. In other words, you have to partly tear the muscle down so you can rebuild it bigger and better in the long term. I wouldn't use this supp if you're main aim is to maximize muscle growth.
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Damn, thats a good point, man. It's even getting to the point where people will have a protein/dex shake during their workout
as well as after. I suppose your take on cortisol is similar to that if Insulin blunting Cortisol post-w/o? What I mean is, could you expand a little on what you were saying? Fuck, I'm starting to confuse myself.

 

[Him1]

Sorry if I phrased my idea/question badly. For a second there, I saw a connection w/ what you were saying and post w/o shakes.
Maybe it was when you said that your muscles need to be torn down to grow. So, I guess I'm wondering what people think about a protein drink during a workout, does it promote anabolism or prevent it by preventing muscle breakdown?

 

[Him1]

Sorry if I phrased my idea/question badly. For a second there, I saw a connection w/ what you were saying and post w/o shakes.
Maybe it was when you said that your muscles need to be torn down to grow. So, I guess I'm wondering what people think about a protein drink during a workout, does it promote anabolism or prevent it by preventing muscle breakdown?

 

[MS]

Hey TheProject, your inhaler could definitely be raising cortisol levels. Ephedrine can do the same, and they are both things that you would ideally avoid if you're a 'hard gainer'. As I mentioned, it's the chronic cortisol elevation that causes problems. A lot of dieters put up with this because you cannot burn fat without elevating cortisol (thus cutting into potential mass gains), but if you're not trying to cut, I would go easy on the stimulants.

If you need corticosteroid inhalers for your well being, then maybe PS is worth a try. But a lot of people get a stuffy nose from coming OFF stuff like ephedra, so you might find the problem goes away if you just avoid taking anything for a month or two?

Him1, I don't think taking just protein during your workout will hurt your gains. The protein is merely providing amino acids so that when the muscle gets to the point of rebuilding (anabolism) is has all the raw ingredients it needs. Also, if you are on a low carb diet, then some of that protein can be burned as glucose to spare muscle protein. It's only the carbohydrates (via insulin) that inhibit cortisol, but even with carbs during you workout, you will not get complete inhibition of cortisol. So don't panic! Basically, short of taking cortisol blockers or anabolic steroids, you are not going to have a problem with blunting of your acute cortisol response to exercise.

 

[TheProject]

Hey TheProject, your inhaler could definitely be raising cortisol levels. Ephedrine can do the same, and they are both things that you would ideally avoid if you're a 'hard gainer'. As I mentioned, it's the chronic cortisol elevation that causes problems. A lot of dieters put up with this because you cannot burn fat without elevating cortisol (thus cutting into potential mass gains), but if you're not trying to cut, I would go easy on the stimulants.

If you need corticosteroid inhalers for your well being, then maybe PS is worth a try. But a lot of people get a stuffy nose from coming OFF stuff like ephedra, so you might find the problem goes away if you just avoid taking anything for a month or two?

My thought initially was that my body had to adapt to coming off ephedra. I stopped the ephedra shortly after I got over my bronchitis in November, and went to the doctor last week because I was still having difficulty breathing and was congested all the time.

Assuming these inhalers work for me, I may try one of these cort blockers just to see if they help counter balance.

 

[MS]

After thinking about this further, I doubt that the PC will help Normally phosphatidylserine inhibits the RELEASE of cortisol, but by using an inhaler, you are basically overiding your body's natural cortisol response and ensuring you have chronically high levels of corticosteroids floating around. Not much you can do about this. The good news is that you can try it for a while, and if you don't like the sides (or it doesn't help your symptoms) you can stop taking it and your body should return to normal pretty quickly.

 

[TheProject]

Hm...well, that's interesting. I bought a bottle of it tonight, for an experiment. It was $27 for a one month supply, so I figured I'd give it a shot.

Really makes me think about just skipping decongestants altogether.

 

[MS]

Can you clarify what is in your inhaler? Is it a decongestant (a beta agonist) or a corticosteroid? It makes a big difference.

 

[TheProject]

Okay...the oral one is called Aerobid, which contains flunisolide.

The second is called Nasonex, which contains memetasone furoate monohydrate.

If I read it right, Nasonex is a corticosteroid.

 

[gonelifting]

If I may tag on your thread here... I asked before but wasn`t answered and you guys have good info going on this thread.
Does NYC or ephedrine cause nasal congestion? I`m actually seeing a doctor now to relieve my chronic cough and also some nasal congestion. AND JUST STARTED TAKING this stuff. I don`t want him to have a heart attack when I tell him I`m taking them. lol Thanks

 

[kronk]

Great thread guys. Great information here.

 

[MS]

Are you taking both??? That sounds like overkill to me....they are both corticosteroids. One's inhaled in the lungs, the other is a nasal delivery.

The good news is that neither of those drugs (by themselves) will have much of an impact on your corticol levels, since they are poorly absorbed into your blood stream and mainly act in the nose and lungs.

gonelifting-NYC and ephedrine are both DEcongestants, so if anything your symptoms should improve. You positively absolutely should tell your doc everything that you're taking because some drugs the doc might want to give you may interact causing you some unexpected side effects.

 

[TheProject]

Yeah, I'm taking both. As to why...well, this isn't a good answer, but because the doctor said so. She indicated that the nasal would help my congestion, and the oral would help my lung capacity.

So...given that they will be poorly absorbed into the bloodstream, I should not take the phosphatidylserine at this point?

 

[gonelifting]

Originally posted by MS [/i

gonelifting-NYC and ephedrine are both DEcongestants, so if anything your symptoms should improve. You positively absolutely should tell your doc everything that you're taking because some drugs the doc might want to give you may interact causing you some unexpected side effects. [/B]

Thanks for the info MS, PS I would never not tell the doc about somthing like that, but for now there are no other prescriptions.