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Contraversial cardoi question!!!

GUESS

New member
Need an expert opinion....... Just recently i was talking with a friend who competes and we were dicussing dieting tips, i then asked about if i should continue to do my cardio in the morning before i eat or is it o.k. to have something lean and light, he said there is alot of contraversy about that and that what he's been doing is having whey in the mornibg with a serving of simple carbs, mainly one serving of fruit. Does anyone have any input on this and if so any info to back it up. I don't want to switch my ways over and end up lessening my results, it's already a big enough pain in the ass to get ripped to begin with, every little bit helps.

Thanks in advance :mix:
 
seriously, use the EZ bar for rows. Did miracles for my elbows and wrists. It seems funny at first but its awesome.

EDIT: can someone explain why the fuck my post showed up in the wrong thread???? hahahahah
 
I find i have the best results doing cardio first thing on a empty stomach. I have tried to have something lite before hand but found the results were not as good.
 
If you are trying to cut and lose body fat, it is absolutely the best to do a sweet cardio first thing in the morning on a completely CARB FREE stomach!!!! Then, don't eat too much after say 6pm and do another round of bike, treadmill later on in the evening before bed!!!! If your buddy competes, he knows this------unfortunately he also knows how old chicken, tuna, egg whites, brown rice, plain potatos, rice cakes, etc get after a solid 12-16 weeks of dieting!!!!!

YOU NEED TO HAVE ZERO CARBS IN YOUR STOMACH TO MAXIMIZE FAT BURNING TO ITS FULLEST...

Please read this very educated writeup below (it will help ya with your question)

It kills me every time I see it. One person after another shows up at the gym, raring to go. They check in at the front desk, put their gear away and make a beeline for the cardio equipment. Somewhere between 20 and 60 minutes later they drag themselves off that treadmill and on to the gym floor to start the weight training portion of their session. This may be the most common training mistake I have seen in roughly 15 years of training in gyms from New York to California. There are a number of reasons why this training sequence can not only minimize your results but also holds the potential for injury.

Let's make a few things clear before we get started. If you want to warm up by doing 5 minutes of cardio before you hit the weights, power to you. If it makes you feel better prepared to train hard and get the most out of your weight training, great. In colder climates, especially with the fall and winter seasons upon us, this may even be advisable. But remember, we're talking about a cardio warm-up before training, not a cardio session aimed at burning fat. That will come after you train, not before, if you are sequencing the workout properly.

NUTRITIONAL REASONS
Ever heard that you will burn more fat if you do cardio on an empty stomach? Wrong. You will burn more fat if you are depleted of carbohydrates when you do cardio. Protein and dietary fats don't affect the equation. If you wanted to, and it didn't bother your stomach, you could drink a high protein/very low carb protein drink or eat a chicken breast or a piece of lean red meat minutes before you started cardio and you'd still burn the same amount of fat. But, if you have a piece of fruit or a cup of rice before that same session, you won't.

When you eat carbohydrates, the body stores them in the form of glycogen in your liver. Then, as you need to use them for energy, the glycogen stores are used until they are depleted. The problem is that the body will not burn fat until the glycogen stores are depleted. In other words, until you burn all your stored carbs, the body will not turn to your fat stores for energy and no fat will be burned. Now for the really bad news. Studies have indicated that it can take as much as 29 minutes of cardiovascular activity to deplete your glycogen stores. So, when you did that 30 minute cardio session after eating carbs sometime within several hours of beginning the session, you burned fat for a whopping minute--ONE MINUTE.

Does that mean that the session was a total waste of time. No. There are two benefits to cardiovascular work. In addition to burning fat, you elevate your metabolism every time you do cardio, which enhances your body's ability to metabolize food and burn fat for several hours after the session. You'll get that benefit regardless of whether your glycogen stores are full or depleted. But, if you are going to spend the time doing cardio in the first place, why settle for only half the benefit? You're going to work just as hard and spend just as much time either way.

While glycogen (carbs) will deprive you of the full benefit of your cardio, it has the opposite effect on working with the weights. Remember that the benefits to weight training are building/maintaining lean muscle tissue and elevated metabolism. This is anaerobic activity, not aerobic activity like cardio. Therefore, you don't weight train to burn bodyfat. Rather, you do it to build muscle.

When you weight train (anaerobic activity), the body's preferred energy source that enables you to train hard and be and stay strong for the workout is--you guessed it--carbohydrate. So, if you train before you do cardio, the glycogen necessary for productive workouts is both available and used. As you train the glycogen is used for energy and depleted. Ah! Depleted glycogen. Exactly where you want to be when you start cardio (aerobic activity) so that you can BURN FAT!

PRACTICAL REASONS
In addition to the nutritional reasons we've covered, there are other practical considerations that dictate doing your weight training before your cardio. Have you heard about or witnessed many people injuring themselves walking on a treadmill or stairmaster or riding a bike? Me neither. In the grand scheme of things, cardio may be tedious at times, but the risk of injury is pretty slim. Now, how many times have you seen or heard someone talk about pulling this or that or experiencing some discomfort because of something they did while weight training? Hopefully not too often, but a helluva lot more than with cardio. So, you'd have to agree that between the two, there is a greater risk of injury with weight training than there is with cardio. Given that fact, doesn't it make the most sense to weight train when you are in your freshest, strongest condition, both physically and mentally? Obviously, you are going to be in that peak condition when you get to the gym, not after you've done cardio for a half-hour or more at a high enough heart rate to burn fat.

The bottom line: Weight train first, when you have everything in your favor. You'll be mentally and physically fresher and stronger. You'll be in the ideal physiological environment as a result of your nutrition and appropriate use of your glycogen stores for the activities your're engaging in and the respective benefits they offer. Barbells don't just come before bikes in the dictionary. For the MAXIMUM RESULT, they should be sequenced that way in the gym too.
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After you wake up and head to the gym to get in ur cardio session and get it out of the way. Is there a certain time you should wait before eating?
 
UFC22 said:
After you wake up and head to the gym to get in ur cardio session and get it out of the way. Is there a certain time you should wait before eating?

Have whey in water immediately after cardio then a proper meal containing carbs/fat/protein 45-60mins after.
 
Thanks for the info dude, this board is awesome. I think i gonna keep my old ways they worked fine in the past just thought maybe i could implement something new to get a little edge, I freaking hate eting like a rabbit for 10 weeks.

Thanks again bro!
 
Good Post Will B Huge. I have been training for 24 years and it kills me when I see people usu. women that go straight for the cardio. My wife's friend does it and she wonders why see can't make any positive changes in her body
 
WILL B HUGE said:
Does that mean that the session was a total waste of time. No. There are two benefits to cardiovascular work.

Decent read, but this part is stupid. The guy doesn't even mention the MAIN reason for doing cardio in the first place: burning CALORIES. Who the $#%@ cares where those calories come from (as long as it's not from muscle, but this is the last place they'll come from)?

The idea of doing cardio is getting yourself in a caloric deficit. If those calories come directly from fat, that's great. If they don't, not the end of the world, you'll still lose fat.
 
GUESS said:
Thanks for the info dude, this board is awesome. I think i gonna keep my old ways they worked fine in the past just thought maybe i could implement something new to get a little edge, I freaking hate eting like a rabbit for 10 weeks.

Thanks again bro!


Hey, if it ain't broke, don't fix it....Everyone's body is different, you know how your body reacts best.... Getting abs is very hard work (well very hard discipline anyways) and if you can do that, you don't need to change anything bro.

Good Luck (but if you find some magic pill or something, please let me know)
 
Joe Stenson said:
Decent read, but this part is stupid. The guy doesn't even mention the MAIN reason for doing cardio in the first place: burning CALORIES. Who the $#%@ cares where those calories come from (as long as it's not from muscle, but this is the last place they'll come from)?

The idea of doing cardio is getting yourself in a caloric deficit. If those calories come directly from fat, that's great. If they don't, not the end of the world, you'll still lose fat.

Hey Joe,

I don't understand your post, I'm not following ya??? The idea of doing cardio is getting in a caloric deficit????---That doesnt make sense, I can get in a caloric deficit by not eating approx. 2400 calories per day (which is about my weight maintenance need for a 245 pounder; if I eat only 1800 calories, then I will be in a serious caloric deficit...Are you saying, now I can sit on my ass and get ripped abs, because the whole point is getting yourself into a caloric deficit??????? Of course not, you need to BURN FAT!!!! If you wake up in the morning and stand up, look down at the small belly above your waste; head to the gym and ride the bike for 45 minutes to an hour, then you just burned a ton of calories that came right from that small belly; HOWEVER if you eat a couple big bowls of cereal (or whatever) and then go ride the bike----GUESS WHAT----you just burned off that freakin cereal----could of stayed home on your ass and just not ate----according to your theory, which makes absolutely zero sense.....

Please educate yourself as you don't want to waste your important time doing useless hours on the bike (well, they won't ever be useless----but you want to FULLY OPTIMIZE your time....)

That is all....

Just my small opinion here.....Good luck to all of you......
_______________________________________
My only EMAIL

[email protected]
 
WILL B HUGE said:
Hey Joe,

I don't understand your post, I'm not following ya??? The idea of doing cardio is getting in a caloric deficit????---That doesnt make sense, I can get in a caloric deficit by not eating approx. 2400 calories per day (which is about my weight maintenance need for a 245 pounder; if I eat only 1800 calories, then I will be in a serious caloric deficit...Are you saying, now I can sit on my ass and get ripped abs, because the whole point is getting yourself into a caloric deficit??????? Of course not, you need to BURN FAT!!!! If you wake up in the morning and stand up, look down at the small belly above your waste; head to the gym and ride the bike for 45 minutes to an hour, then you just burned a ton of calories that came right from that small belly; HOWEVER if you eat a couple big bowls of cereal (or whatever) and then go ride the bike----GUESS WHAT----you just burned off that freakin cereal----could of stayed home on your ass and just not ate----according to your theory, which makes absolutely zero sense.....

Please educate yourself as you don't want to waste your important time doing useless hours on the bike (well, they won't ever be useless----but you want to FULLY OPTIMIZE your time....)

That is all....

Just my small opinion here.....Good luck to all of you......
_______________________________________
My only EMAIL

[email protected]

Without flaming you too badly, I'll point out 2 things you clearly aren't aware of:

1) Your body burns fat while at rest. In fact, the majority of calories you're burning at rest come from fat. You do not need to burn fat calories by doing cardio.

2) Tons of people get ripped without doing ANY cardio. How do you explain that?

Now next time please think before you make an ass of yourself and tell people who clearly know more than you to "go educate themselves".
 
Joe Stenson said:
Without flaming you too badly, I'll point out 2 things you clearly aren't aware of:

2) Tons of people get ripped without doing ANY cardio. How do you explain that?


How DO you explain that? Please enlighten me. Anybody on here get ripped without cardio? If so get me some of what you got.
 
strohs said:
How DO you explain that? Please enlighten me. Anybody on here get ripped without cardio? If so get me some of what you got.

It's all about calories in and calories out.
 
Joe Stenson said:
Thank-you.

I don't agree with you whatsoever.....and calories in and calories out.....if you lower your calories that drastically "to become ripped" (which is impossible) you will simply be sitting in a catabolic state......You dont burn Fat at rest like that (you will burn up everything-fat-muscle-whatever).......you use up energy stores (calories) in your body all day, all night, all the time, usually from the last carbohydrates you ate (hence you always have a MAINTAIN amount of calories you can eat per day to stay the same as you are........If you are fasting and didn't eat any carbs, etc....your body will start eating away from everywhere on your body INCLUDING LOTS OF MUSCLE.....ARE YOU EVEN BEING SERIOUS WITH YOUR ARROGANT ASS POST ABOVE-------THAT WE WILL BECOME RIPPED WITHOUT ANY CARDIO AT ALL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Please ask for help from the best educated MOD's, etc on this website and ask them what you are burning (calorie wise) during the first 20-29 minutes of cardio (even at an optimal fat burning heart rate).....You dont start changing over to burn all fat until around the 29 minute mark.......

(Im not even gonna go on here.....not worth it and I apologize for getting upset here....Sorry.....Good Luck....It is true that everyone's body is different and maybe you are a miracle man........)

*****RANT OVER********

[email protected]
 
Joe Stenson said:
Thank-you.


Wow, JOE STENSON.....You are the same one that made negative comments way up above regarding my first post......I am quite fairly educated and am sharing knowledge that I've picked up....trying to help this guy out here (just as I look for lots of help in other areas as well) and you are sitting here just trying to bitch about my threads......do you know me???? You got a problem or something???? Please help me here as you have clearly been very disrespectful and it really isn't appreciated......

(Again, I guess Im just not understanding again).......When people don't agree with someones post, especially if they tried very hard by typing out a long detailed post; doesn't the people that don't agree with it usually say something like "Bro, you make some very good points, but regarding this, I would personally do it this way."

You are typing in shit just being an asshole!!!!! Thanks for pissing me off even more tonight.....Have a good one...


(Sorry fellas)
 
strohs said:
How DO you explain that? Please enlighten me. Anybody on here get ripped without cardio? If so get me some of what you got.


EXACTLY MY THOUGHTS!!!! NO SENSE or SCIENTIFIC BASIS WHATSOEVER!!!!!

(sorry about the caps)
 
bigjd69 said:
Good Post Will B Huge. I have been training for 24 years and it kills me when I see people usu. women that go straight for the cardio. My wife's friend does it and she wonders why see can't make any positive changes in her body


Thank you very much bro... I agree bro...
 
WILL B HUGE said:
I don't agree with you whatsoever.....and calories in and calories out.....if you lower your calories that drastically "to become ripped" (which is impossible) you will simply be sitting in a catabolic state

For all intents and purposes, the following are identical (ignoring some of the other benefits cardio provides like increased metabolism, decreased insulin sensitivity, etc.):

a) eating 2000 cals
b) eating 2400 cals and burning 400 cals from cardio

If your maintenance is 3000, you're in a 1000 calorie deficit from BOTH scenarios. There are different ways to skin a cat. Some people like eating more and doing cardio, some hate cardio so will eat less. I don't see how this is difficult to comprehend.

The biggest thing to realize is that calories in vs. calories out only works to an extent. You're perfectly right; at some point or another you'd have to drop your calories to a level where you would most likely be very catabolic. (Now, using gear mitigates this problem to a large degree.) The point I'm trying to make though is that diet is going to have a MUCH larger impact on your body composition than a few cardio sessions here and there.

WILL B HUGE said:
......You dont burn Fat at rest like that (you will burn up everything-fat-muscle-whatever)

Your body is always using a mixture of protein, carbs, and fat for energy. The more sedentary you are, however, the higher the % of cals are being burned from fat. That's why a low intensity incline walk burns a higher % of fat calories than an all-out sprint. Sitting around is even less intense than low intensity cardio, thus the % is even higher.

WILL B HUGE said:
Please ask for help from the best educated MOD's, etc on this website and ask them what you are burning (calorie wise) during the first 20-29 minutes of cardio (even at an optimal fat burning heart rate).....You dont start changing over to burn all fat until around the 29 minute mark.......

You will NEVER be burning ALL fat. That whole 20-29 minute thing is BS anyway. The theory is that you will have depleted your glycogen stores so your body will have to use fat for energy. For anyone that has ever done any kind of depletion workouts (the crux of UD2) they'll tell you that it takes a lot more than 20-29 minutes of light/moderate intensity cardio to fully deplete glycogen.

Again, you'll burn a higher % of calories from fat as the duration of the cardio increases, and as glycogen stores decrease, but you'll never be burning 100% fat.

WILL B HUGE said:
(Im not even gonna go on here.....not worth it and I apologize for getting upset here....Sorry.....Good Luck....It is true that everyone's body is different and maybe you are a miracle man........)

I perform cardio myself. I said there are people out there who are lean basically year round without doing any. These people could easily lose a couple % bf with some simple dietary manipulations, no cardio necessary. I'm sure you have friends like this, everyone does; they're the people we hate :).
 
Joe Stenson said:
For all intents and purposes, the following are identical (ignoring some of the other benefits cardio provides like increased metabolism, decreased insulin sensitivity, etc.):

a) eating 2000 cals
b) eating 2400 cals and burning 400 cals from cardio
Joe Stenson said:
LOL...This is all I had to read from you.....Please, if someone new is reading this, don't believe this and base your diet on this Crap......LOL.....

Joe Stenson--you are saying that, for all intents/purposes, the following is identical....

a) eating 2000 cals
b) eating 2400 cals and burning 400 cals from cardio...

OK??? So, your telling the forum that they can either eat 2000 fat calories worth of twinkies or eat 2400 lean quality protein w/ low carb and ride the bike everyday to burn 400 calories (which will increase metabolism significantly which will burn extra calories and more efficiently at that) also the calories burned on cardio will be fat...........) NOW, DOES THAT SOUND IDENTICAL TO YOU JOE!!!!!!!!

NOW> JOE STENSON......PLEASE REREAD YOUR COMMENTS/POSTS ABOVE AND GO EDUCATE YOURSELF....

PERSON (A) will always be a fat ass
PERSON (B) will get shredded over time


(I can't believe that you FLAMED me and called out my experience/education, and look at what you just posted.....It took me all of three lines to read of your post that told me that you don't know much, so everything you put in these forums will either be VERY OBVIOUS or COMPLETELY FOOLISH!!!!)

Yep, I just read the rest of your post, and everything is either painfully obvious or once again, foolish....
 
WILL B HUGE said:
OK??? So, your telling the forum that they can either eat 2000 fat calories worth of twinkies or eat 2400 lean quality protein w/ low carb and ride the bike everyday to burn 400 calories (which will increase metabolism significantly which will burn extra calories and more efficiently at that) also the calories burned on cardio will be fat...........) NOW, DOES THAT SOUND IDENTICAL TO YOU JOE!!!!!!!!

Oh boy. 2 more things:

1) I can't even believe I have to point this out, but for your sake I will (and I'm pretty sure ONLY for your sake because 99% of the human race wouldn't mutiliate my example so badly).

Why are you changing variables around? Why is Person A eating $#%@ and Person B is eating clean? Did I ever insinuate that at all? In the example, it is fairly clear to anyone with a moderate degree of intelligence, that the only difference between the 2 guys is one is eating 400 extra calories (OF THE SAME TYPE OF FOOD) and burning the extra 400 calories from cardio. I didn't say Person A was a couch potato and Person B was an avid bodybuilder. Most people would assume from the example that both guys are eating clean, bodybuilding-type foods. It's irrelevant though. Let both guys eat crap. The only difference is the 400 extra calories consumed and burned...but CLEARLY both guys are eating the same types of foods. My god, think before you post.

2) Riding the bike will give your metabolism a slight boost WHILE performing the activity. Unless you're doing high intensity cardio, your metabolism will return to normal speed once you are finished.
 
Hey Joe, I had enough of this man...good luck......(if you meant that guys are dieting clean, exactly the same and they are taking same supplements, etc....) then most of your post if completely obvious and you misunderstood my other posts and maybe I misunderstood some of yours too.......Either way, I LOVE BODYBUILDING and I WILL LEARN MORE TODAY to add to my knowledge (no matter how little you think it may be).....

Bro, good luck to you in everything you do, but we have battered back and forth retardly throughout the last 10 posts and I'm all done with that---(its starting to affect my very important learning time).....

I'm off to reading some posts that contain a little more substance.......


[email protected]
 
WILL B HUGE said:
Hey Joe, I had enough of this man...good luck......(if you meant that guys are dieting clean, exactly the same and they are taking same supplements, etc....) then most of your post if completely obvious and you misunderstood my other posts and maybe I misunderstood some of yours too....

Fair enough. My point was never that you can get ripped with a crappy diet; my point was that diet is the dealbreaker when it comes to getting shredded. Cardio is supplementary.
 
Joe Stenson said:
Fair enough. My point was never that you can get ripped with a crappy diet; my point was that diet is the dealbreaker when it comes to getting shredded. Cardio is supplementary.

LOL...How about that? If that was your point, then we are exactly on the same page......Without diet, you won't get shit.....I, too, believe (KNOW) that diet is at least 75+% of the battle/everything...........

(and to think that I almost bought you a big ass Negative platinum karma bomb for your ass no matter what the cost was.....LOL)----I decided against it, figuring that you are on here answering questions trying to help.....
 
strohs said:
How DO you explain that? Please enlighten me. Anybody on here get ripped without cardio? If so get me some of what you got.

diet/drugs
 
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WILL B HUGE said:
LOL...How about that? If that was your point, then we are exactly on the same page......Without diet, you won't get shit.....I, too, believe (KNOW) that diet is at least 75+% of the battle/everything...........

(and to think that I almost bought you a big ass Negative platinum karma bomb for your ass no matter what the cost was.....LOL)----I decided against it, figuring that you are on here answering questions trying to help.....

lol cool bro, good to know we're on the same page

K13 said:
diet/drugs

That's very true, but there's tons of guys out there that are just naturally lean. To get RIPPED, they might have to clean up their diet a bit (or run a nice little cycle), but lots of guys are naturally very low bodyfat.
 
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