Conservative absolutes...

[strongsmartsexy]

Leaving liberals smoldering in the wake of powerful conservative absolutes.

I'd like to open a forum to delineate the "conservative absolutes" through out time. Don't be shy list as many as you can!

1) The world is FLAT
2) Women should not have the right to vote
3) Blacks should be slaves
4) Only rich white men should have power and authority
5) Gays should not be married
6) Sex is for procreation only

I don't want to have all the fun myself....



Death, the ONLY absolute.

 

[ChefWide]

You're just trying to leave liberals smoldering in the wake of powerful conservative absolutes.

 

[the nature boy]

somehow I don't think ttlpkg's ideas of conservatism don't match what other conservatives think.

 

[strongsmartsexy]

Your are just trying to leave liberals smoldering in the wake of powerful conservative absolutes.

Dammit Chef! You're making a bad name for liberals not knowing how to utilize the YOU ARE (you're) contraction!

The only thing they're going to smoldering in is the heat from hysterical laughter.

 

[ChefWide]

Dammit Chef! You're making a bad name for liberals not knowing how to utilize the YOU ARE (you're) contraction!

The only thing they're going to smoldering in is the heat from hysterical laughter.

What? I don't know what you're talking about...

 

[MattTheSkywalker]

ttlpkg like so many 'conservatives' have taken hold of libertarian oprinciples (ie the backbone of this country / the Bill of Rights) and attempted to hijack them.

Conservatives in this country point at the wasteful programs of many well-intentioned but economically uneducated liberals and say "look at how they ignore our most basic principles". We conservatives would *never* do that.

Then they proceed to do it with a different agenda. It's like the debate about taxes. Liberals tax and spend, conservatives borrow and spend. Conservatives say "we didn;t raise taxes". Yet they fucked us just the same. Libertarians would neither tax nor spend. Much of what the so-called Conservatives do today is liberal-minded, just less liberal than liberals.

Despite this appropriate mocking of conservatives, and appropriate consternation about the PATRIOT Act, we must never forget that is was the liberal leaders who gave us national ID numbers in 1935, and it was a liberal President who oversaw the use of the military to kill Americans at Waco. The liberal idea of a social good is the enemy of American liberties.

 

[Mr. dB]

...and it was a liberal President who oversaw the use of the military to kill Americans at Waco.

That standoff was inherited from a Republican regime, and was carried out by ATF and FBI personnel who were hired and/or appointed by Republican regimes. The same mindset as Ruby Ridge, which occurred during the Bush Presidency.

 

[strongsmartsexy]

That standoff was inherited from a Republican regime, and was carried out by ATF and FBI personnel who were hired and/or appointed by Republican regimes. The same mindset as Ruby Ridge, which occurred during the Bush Presidency.

I find it incredulous that the guy who did the Oklahoma bombing, supposedly in retaliation of the Waco ordeal, has been put to death for his crimes, but those in WA who gave the orders in Waco haven't been put to death for theirs.

 

[strongsmartsexy]

ttlpkg like so many 'conservatives' have taken hold of libertarian oprinciples (ie the backbone of this country / the Bill of Rights) and attempted to hijack them.

Conservatives in this country point at the wasteful programs of many well-intentioned but economically uneducated liberals and say "look at how they ignore our most basic principles". We conservatives would *never* do that.

Then they proceed to do it with a different agenda. It's like the debate about taxes. Liberals tax and spend, conservatives borrow and spend. Conservatives say "we didn;t raise taxes". Yet they fucked us just the same. Libertarians would neither tax nor spend. Much of what the so-called Conservatives do today is liberal-minded, just less liberal than liberals.

Despite this appropriate mocking of conservatives, and appropriate consternation about the PATRIOT Act, we must never forget that is was the liberal leaders who gave us national ID numbers in 1935, and it was a liberal President who oversaw the use of the military to kill Americans at Waco. The liberal idea of a social good is the enemy of American liberties.

I'd tried to hit you with Karma for this excellent post, but I can't until I spread more around...

 

[MattTheSkywalker]

That standoff was inherited from a Republican regime, and was carried out by ATF and FBI personnel who were hired and/or appointed by Republican regimes. The same mindset as Ruby Ridge, which occurred during the Bush Presidency.

The standoff *began* Feb 28 2003, Bush was not in office any longer when it began, and Reno was the AG. FBI and ATF personnnel were lower level funcitonairies were not "hired" by any President; they had no straeegic authority.

http://www.apologeticsindex.org/b10.html#overview
http://www.wic.org/bio/jreno.htm

It;s different than Ruby Ridge for one simple reason: Reno lied to get the US military involved. (There are Constitutional implications there). There were no military people at Ruby Ridge. There were Army tanks and the Delta Force at Waco.

Let;s try not to let this get too far off topic.

 

[starfish]

You're just trying to leave liberals smoldering in the wake of powerful conservative absolutes.

 

[collegiateLifter]

The liberal idea of a social good is the enemy of American liberties.

Most often, but not always. It depends on how you devise your "system"

 

[MattTheSkywalker]

Most often, but not always. It depends on how you devise your "system"

No it doesn't. if individual liberty is your goal, which, this country's goal WAS that, then social programs are inherently against it.

if liberty is your goal, nothing is more importnat than property rights, including the right to keep the wealth you have produced.

All of it.

 

[the nature boy]

All of it.

all of it? how is that possible if there is to be a military to defend liberty at home? or was there not supposed to be a standing army?

 

[MattTheSkywalker]

all of it? how is that possible if there is to be a military to defend liberty at home? or was there not supposed to be a standing army?

In a society that values individual liberty above all else, the military would only be required to defend the country from external threats to that liberty, so, theoretically, if liberty was respected around the world, then yes, there would be no military.

A military that was used to defend the liberty of US citizens would be less expensive than the forces we have today, though, if there were external threats, there would be a need for some taxation.

 

[Code]

Aside from #1, why are all the others wrong??

 

[Longhorn85]

I'd like to open a forum to delineate the "conservative absolutes" through out time. Don't be shy list as many as you can!

1) The world is FLAT
2) Women should not have the right to vote
3) Blacks should be slaves
4) Only rich white men should have power and authority
5) Gays should not be married
6) Sex is for procreation only

I don't want to have all the fun myself....



Death, the ONLY absolute.

Here are some absolutes that have left some of you smoldering lately:

1) Homosexuality is abnormal behavior
2) Marriage consists of a bond between and man and a woman
3) Abortion is murder
4) Liberal democrats are condescending (if well-meaning) to minorities
5) Supply-side economics is good for the economy
6) Bush is a great leader

 

[strongsmartsexy]

Here are some absolutes that have left some of you smoldering lately:

1) Homosexuality is abnormal behavior
2) Marriage consists of a bond between and man and a woman
3) Abortion is murder
4) Liberal democrats are condescending (if well-meaning) to minorities
5) Supply-side economics is good for the economy
6) Bush is a great leader

You are mistaking delusions for absolutes. It's easy to do when running around with blinders on, but don't worry, life will slowly strip them away.

 

[Longhorn85]

Gotta run, but I'll be back tonight.

 

[strongsmartsexy]

Gotta run, but I'll be back tonight.

Shoot! By then I'll be gone and won't care any more.

Olde Age and short attention spans run hand in hand.

 

[collegiateLifter]

No it doesn't. if individual liberty is your goal, which, this country's goal WAS that, then social programs are inherently against it.

if liberty is your goal, nothing is more importnat than property rights, including the right to keep the wealth you have produced.

All of it.

oh matt thats sooo cute.


It does depend on how you devise your philsophical system though, whether you realize that or not.

Citizens can be rightfully compelled to do certain beneficent acts and arguably a select few welfare programs may qualify.

 

[juiceddreadlocks]

dubya in 04

 

[MattTheSkywalker]

rightfully compelled

Oxymoron.

I don't think it's your fault though, you've been raised in a society that pushes all of this "good of society" bullshit and probably haven't done or accomplished anytrhing yet to make you really proud of your individual abilities. So you eat the collectivitist nonsense right up.

In time, you might grow out of it, or you might just go to your grave justifying the ass-raping you will undoubtedly continue to get.

Matters not to me sir, I am concerned only with myself and not the collective.

 

[Code]

oh matt thats sooo cute.


It does depend on how you devise your philsophical system though, whether you realize that or not.

Citizens can be rightfully compelled to do certain beneficent acts and arguably a select few welfare programs may qualify.

Compelled or forced?
Because last time I checked I could opt out of paying social security, medicare etc etc etc.

 

[Lao Tzu]

Here are some absolutes that have left some of you smoldering lately:

1) Homosexuality is abnormal behavior
2) Marriage consists of a bond between and man and a woman
3) Abortion is murder
4) Liberal democrats are condescending (if well-meaning) to minorities
5) Supply-side economics is good for the economy
6) Bush is a great leader

I know im stating the obvious with this but those aren't absolutes they are personal opinions.

1. homosexuality is common in some cultures and is common in the animal kingdom
2. Says who? Marriage is a very scummy institution as it is with divorces, cheaing, taking money from each other, marrying for bad reasons, etc.
3. Depends on how you define life
4. true
5. i dont know enough to say
6. depends on your perspective.

 

[collegiateLifter]

Oxymoron.

I don't think it's your fault though, you've been raised in a society that pushes all of this "good of society" bullshit and probably haven't done or accomplished anytrhing yet to make you really proud of your individual abilities. So you eat the collectivitist nonsense right up.

In time, you might grow out of it, or you might just go to your grave justifying the ass-raping you will undoubtedly continue to get.

Matters not to me sir, I am concerned only with myself and not the collective.

LOL thats rich.

I am much more a friend of Liberty than you believe.

Have you read John Stuart Mill's On Liberty ?

It is not from social conditioning but rather an abstraction from this profound work, that I entertain the idea of limmitted 'beneficent' acts that we may be compelled to perform.