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Clen/T3 as a BULK cycle? Read on...

BigAndy69

Your Canadian Idol
Platinum
I'm guessing that a combination of T3 at non supressive doses (12.5mcg) + Clen and Ketotifen at 2-3mg ED would be an excellent cycle for muscle gain and bodyfat lost.

This would be excellent between AS cycles or for those who haven't turned to the darkside yet.

W1-W4:

T3: 12.5mg ED
Clen: 60-100mcg ED
Keto: 2mg ED

W5:

T3: 6.25mcg ED
L-tyrosine: 2g ED

T3 increases the amount of beta 3-adrenergic receptors in white adipose tissue, ie the fat that covers your muscle. This means that it improves the effects of Clenbuterol which exert most of it's effects on these receptors.


Here's a study:

Thyroid hormone and norepinephrine signaling in brown adipose tissue. II: Differential effects of thyroid hormone on beta 3-adrenergic receptors in brown and white adipose tissue

Endocrinology 1995 Aug;136(8):3277-84 (ISSN: 0013-7227)
Rubio A; Raasmaja A; Silva JE

Department of Medicine, Lady Davis Institute, Jewish General Hospital, Montreal, Quebec, Canada.

beta 3-adrenergic receptors (AR) are predominantly expressed in brown (BAT) and white adipose tissue (WAT), being more abundant in the former. There is growing interest in these receptors because of their potential to be pharmacologically targeted to control energy expenditure and lipid accretion. We have examined, in BAT and WAT of rats, the effect of thyroid hormone on the expression of beta 3-AR and their contribution to cAMP generation. Receptor density was assessed with the nonselective beta 3-AR ligand [125I]-cyanopindolol ([125I]-CYP) and the highly selective beta 3-AR agonist CL3216,243. beta 3-AR messenger RNA (mRNA) was analyzed by Northern blotting of total BAT and WAT RNA. Generation of cAMP by brown adipocytes in response to norepinephrine (NE) and CL316,243 was measured by RIA. In BAT, beta 3-AR can account for as much as 50% of the maximal cAMP response to NE, whereas in WAT these receptors probably account for all the effect of NE. In hypothyroidism. BAT beta 3-AR number is increased, as are beta 3-AR mRNA (4- to 6-fold) and the relative contribution of these receptors to the maximal cAMP production. In contrast, both beta 3-AR number and mRNA levels are reduced in WAT of hypothyroid rats. The injection of T3 to hypothyroid rats reverts the changes in beta 3-AR within 24 h, and T3 excess causes a greater than 90% reduction in beta 3-AR mRNA in BAT but a 5-fold increase in WAT. In both tissues, hypothyroidism is associated with a marked reduction in the capacity to generate cAMP, but this is not completely restored even after 2 days of a receptor-saturating dose of T3. Conclusions: 1) thyroid hormone differentially affects the expression of beta 3-AR in BAT and WAT; 2) these effects of T3 are both rapid and marked and seem to take place at a pretranslational level; 3) in both tissues there is a postreceptor defect in the generation of cAMP that is corrected by T3 much later after the changes in beta 3-AR are reversed; and 4) thyroid hormone is among the known factors that most vigorously affect the expression of beta 3-AR.
 
Hey bro, I remember reading that you put some of your female clients on clen and they were happy with th results. What were the changes in their body composition? ie: muscle gain and/or overall leaness? Do you think this type of combo would be good for a women also b/c it seems as a good alternative to a cycle for my girl right now
 
Overall leaness was probably the major change. I actually put 3 women on Clen after they were considering Steroids.

They all had different goals. One added 2lbs of LBM in that 2 week period and dropped 3 lbs of BF. She was the more experience one and she decide that she wanted to do more, so she's getting anavar now.

One was focusing on lost of BF, and she did a total of 18 cardio sessions during that 2 week period. She dropped 7lbs of Fat and increased her strengh in the gym.

The biggest change was the leaness of the muscles, it stripped away a lot of the fat covering the muscles.

People who have a high amount of fat on there muscles and don't have that ripped look usually have a very sluggish thyroid.

Btw, these ladies were not my clients(officially) they were my friends.
 
Andy,

I am interested in T3 as a fat burner in combo with Clen, but the thing that has held me back is the thought that I might f*ck up my Thyroid and have to be on meds the rest of my life. I know your doses are very low but at what dose does T3 become problematic for the Thyroid?


Can you also explain why you added Kyno to the cycle?


Thanks
 
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barnidge said:
Andy,

I am interested in T3 as a fat burner in combo with Clen, but the thing that has held me back is the thought that I might f*ck up my Thyroid and have to be on meds the rest of my life. I know your doses are very low but at what dose does T3 become problematic for the Thyroid?


Can you also explain why you added Kyno to the cycle?


Thanks

Bro, stay tuned I'm posting the most complete write up on T3. It's close to 1500 words and I'm not even done. A T3 Faq if you will.

You can't fuck up your thyroid for life, that's a myth. It doesn't mean that you won't have complications. You can end up gaining every last ounce of fat you burned and then some. You can end up with Thyroid disease later in life. Very tricky drug, for Vets only. I'm on it right now at 37.5mcg working up to 50 mcg with no AS. Took my frist dose of clen today.

25mcg is a full replacement dose, that means 25 shut you down completly. 12.5mcg is the max I would ever consider doing again, feels great, better gains in the gym and very good ehergy.

Kyno increases the effects of clen which means you can take it longer without receptor downgrade. It "cleans" the receptors completely.


The most potent fat-lost/muscle gain stack(with safety in mind) would be:

T3: 12.5mg ED
Clen: 60-100mcg ED
Keto: 2mg ED
Anastrozole: 0.5mg ED
Yohimbine: 10-15mg ED

ALA: 1500mg ED
Taurine: 3g ED
 
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barnidge said:
Andy if 12.5 is the max you would do, then why are you doing 37.5?

Because I'm an idiot :D

Well, this is my first time with T3 and I started out with 12.5mcg for 5 days. I gained muscle, full pumps, rock hard and great energy.

This link pretty much explains why:

http://boards.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?postid=1295891#post1295891

I just woke up one day, and felt like using T3 at replacement doses wasn't worth it, I'm messing with my thyroid, and for what? 12.5mcg worked really well for me, and I'll stick to that dose in the future.
 
BigAndy69 said:
Any volunters to try this stack? I'm trying it in December of this year.

the study is well written and your thoughts on clen/T3/Keto make total sense...as for your future planning,looks like your tendecies are slowly tilting towards the darkside my friend...hehehe
 
da big thinker said:


the study is well written and your thoughts on clen/T3/Keto make total sense...as for your future planning,looks like your tendecies are slowly tilting towards the darkside my friend...hehehe

I've been wanting to do a cycle for so long since coming back from my injury but I can't :( I have to make sure everything is in proportion and that I don't have any weak links. After my cut cycle, I'm going to work on:

rotator cuffs/midsection/Transversus abdominus/hip flexors

my weakest links. Then get my arms and legs up. Especially the arms. Cut up a bit and get to 200lbs at under 12%. And then I can feel good about hitting the sauce.
 
da big thinker said:


the study is well written and your thoughts on clen/T3/Keto make total sense...as for your future planning,looks like your tendecies are slowly tilting towards the darkside my friend...hehehe

So would you try this cycle? I'm definitely doing it.
 
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