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clen and ECA
- Thread starter ricorico
- Start date
ricorico said:
I would just stick with the 2 weeks on clen and then on your 2 weeks off take the ECA. This is what I do when cycling these two...it seems to work the best for me when I rotate them. I tried taking both at the same time, but I was a nervous wreck....hands were shaking like broke crack whore!!! It sucked...so now I just stick to rotating each of them for 2 on and 2 off.
ricorico said:
Clen is not worth it, imo. Small scale studies show that it can cause HOCM (hypertrophic/obstructive cardiomyopathy) e.g. heart failure, in a mouse model. ECA, however, appears safe assuming you can control your BP while on it, otherwise your risk for hemorrhagic CVA (cerebrovascular accident, fancy term for stroke) will increase significnatly.
NFG
musclefreaks
New member
yes i also have heard this,but i know so meny ppl who have and do use it and none have had anyproblems?but i to would do the ECA on the weeks of clen for best results 
http://www.musclefreaks.co.uk/
http://www.musclefreaks.co.uk/
jdevlin1985
New member
I used to wonder this and thought it would be more beneficial. It obviously is'nt when you think about it. 2 weeks of clen the effects will start to grind to a hault, hence the 2 week break. Then you can hit the ECA with fresh receptors to continue the fat loss. Both taken together will slowly halt both receptors at the same time. This is not going to you any favors, unless you want to waste your money. Go for the 2 weeks on/off with clen, and same for EC.
Prizz
New member
Again, this is a HUGE misconception..... You can't use ECA on your 2 weeks off..... ECA is a Beta 2 drug, and the whole idea of the 2 weeks off is to let your receptors clear out..... If youre using ECA, you aren't allowing the receptors time to clear out.... Use a non Beta 2 fat burner in your 2 weeks off, like Trex or Stimulant X.... Your next run of Clen will be much more effective that way.....
rizz
rizz
jdevlin1985
New member
Prizz said:
Ephedrine is an aplha and beta adrenergic agonist. clen is a beta 2. clen only affects one of three sebsets of beta receptors. It has hardly any beta-1 simulating activity. Therefore i disagree with you 100%
jdevlin1985
New member
ricorico said:
Do a quick research on google. Or hit the search button at the top of the page then make your own mind up.
Good luck
jdevlin1985
New member
hankes64 said:
Did you actually read my reply? clen is a beta 2. clen only affects one of three sebsets of beta receptors. It has hardly any beta-1 simulating activity, any info will support that. I'm going to argue bro. We obviously have different misconceptions.
Prizz
New member
Jdevlin1985 said:
Right, you just said what I said..... Ephedrine is a Beta 2 agonist, the fact that it affects other receptors too doesn't matter.... It affects the Beta 2 receptor, not allowing it to clear out for the next run of Clen..... Simple fact that is undisputed.....
rizz
jdevlin1985
New member
Prizz said:
And clen only affects one of three of the beta recpeptors. It has hardly any beta-1. And what beta receptor is ephedrine? beta-1
Look, i get great results from it. The pros get great results. And many of my buddies get great results. So i'm happy with my theory.
Prizz
New member
Jdevlin1985 said:
That is just not correct..... Ephedrine affects the Beta 2 receptor, why do you think it's a huge OTC breathing aid? Like you said in your past post, Ephedrine affects MANY receptors, including the beta 2..... Therefore should be avoided during the 2 week off Clen cycle...... If you don't wanna do that, that is fine too, but you can't argue with the science man..... I'll tell you this, if you just TRY using Trex/Stimulant X on your 2 week off of Clen, you'll feel the difference the next time you start the Clen.....
rizz
jdevlin1985
New member
Prizz said:
Yes and clen only affects one of three of the beta-2 agonists. Therefore there are '2 left to affect'.
jdevlin1985
New member
Dayum! i'm getting confused now. End of topic.
jdevlin1985
New member
hankes64 said:
Ok as this post is still floating up answer me one question. Why does near enough everyone, everywhere recommend 2 weeks with clen, 2 weeks with EC? Its so common that its mandatory these days.
jdevlin1985
New member
MTS said:
Does ketotifen not increase hunger though?
jdevlin1985
New member
hankes64 said:
Thats what i don't get. You are saying that most people on this board, and many past members who have been on here since 2000 are wrong? Well bro that is what you are saying, right? I have researched myself and this is where my theory comes from.
jdevlin1985
New member
hankes64 said:
That is not precise. research on beta-2 agonists and you will see how many secondaries there are.
Peace.
Prizz
New member
Jdevlin1985 said:
Let me just start by saying I'm not flamming you at all Jdevlin..... Our debate got kinda heated, but I know youre a good guy, and I hope you don't feel attacked..... I see good posts by you, and I'm not trying to make an enemy..... Ok, that said, I think the reason you see ECA being reccomended for the 2 weeks off Clen goes back years..... Today, we have a few choices of Non Beta 2 fatburners, where 5-10 years ago we didn't..... So, back then, the question is what do you use when youre off Clen, only options were Ephedrine based fatburners, or derivatives of Ephedrine (Norephedrine)..... So it became the Norm to use ECA on the off days/weeks of Clen..... That's my best guess anyway.....
rizz
jdevlin1985
New member
Prizz said:
No problem at all prizz. I'm going to do some more research on this. Maybe you are right.
jacshelb
New member
Ok, so this is what I know. Clen only affects the beta-2 (for the most part) and ephedrine affects all three. Also, Ephedrine does not have as strong as an effect on the beta-2. So, the theory "for" doing the 2 by 2 is that you are hitting more of the other receptors (besides the beta-2) when using ephedrine and not hitting the beta-2 nearly as hard. It gives the beta-2 receptors a chance to "slightly" recover. It's not the best method, but aparently it works for some. I, personally, don't do the two weeks by two weeks. I take a full 6 weeks off between every clen cycle. That's my preference.
Now, that being said, we have had some info on here recently stating that T-3 actually helps up-regulate the beta-2 receptors and so do anti-histemine (sp?) such as benedryl. So, my thinking would be that IF you are going to do two weeks clen and then two weeks ephedrine, that you could use a light dose of T-3 (say 15 mcg/day) during the time you are on Clen (to keep catabolic properties minimal and receptors more fresh) and then Benedryl at night during the two weeks on ephedrine. It's just a simple and obvious theory, but this should: add to the fat burning qualities of your clen/eph. cycle while keeping the beta-2 receptors much "more" active.
Still, I think a person would still need to take an extended break after awhile of this anyhow to let everything clear out. Good luck!
Jacob
Now, that being said, we have had some info on here recently stating that T-3 actually helps up-regulate the beta-2 receptors and so do anti-histemine (sp?) such as benedryl. So, my thinking would be that IF you are going to do two weeks clen and then two weeks ephedrine, that you could use a light dose of T-3 (say 15 mcg/day) during the time you are on Clen (to keep catabolic properties minimal and receptors more fresh) and then Benedryl at night during the two weeks on ephedrine. It's just a simple and obvious theory, but this should: add to the fat burning qualities of your clen/eph. cycle while keeping the beta-2 receptors much "more" active.
Still, I think a person would still need to take an extended break after awhile of this anyhow to let everything clear out. Good luck!
Jacob
Prizz
New member
jacshelb said:
Hmmmmm..... Could work I guess..... I have to say, I take Benadryl everynight for sleep, and I cycle T3 quite often...... Clen and ECA still lose their effectiveness for me just as quick as they do if I'm not taking these compounds..... Ok, it's ancedotal evidence, and it's 1 guys exp, but I just don't feel these compounds slow the downgrade of Beta2's that much...... PLUS, I recently have been using the non Beta 2 fatburners in my 2 weeks off of Clen, and the Clen is MUCH more effective when I start it again...... That's why I feel so strong about not using ECA on the 2 weeks off Clen....
rizz
jacshelb
New member
Prizz, I hear you. It sounds like you definately know what works for you. I guess my post is intended toward those who insist on doing it the two x two way. I think what you are saying about the non beta-2 fat burners on your off weeks makes a lot of sense. Hell, I'd even go: Clen 2 weeks, non beta 2's 2 weeks, ECA 2 weeks, then Clen again- if not even more space between clen cycles. I'm with Dan Duchaine on only using Clen for 2 weeks at a time once every two months. For the last several months I've been doing just that, not going higher than 70 mcg and it has worked pretty well. I do everything pretty minimally. Over the last year or so I've taken my waist from 37" + to just under 33" and improved my muscle quality a bit all over. Right now I'm in contest prep mode trying to squeeze what I can out of very moderate doses of Clen, T-3, Test, and Tren. I'm not going overboard with anything, but it's the first time I've tried Clen for longer than 2 weeks. I'm entering my third week (and last) but have started the benedryl and will still be tapering off with test for awhile after Clen stops. Now I don't know why I just typed all that, guess I'm just trying to show that everyone has a slightly different approach, but good judgement is good judgement.
Jacob
Jacob
