Can we have a mature discussion about TEST-FREE cycles PLEASE!!!!

[Whacked]

Everytime this gets brought up, a bunch of children invade the thread with their immature "You need TEST" posts.

Thank you.

That being said-------I love Test free cycles!! Anyone else?

I have done EQ only/Fina only (awesome)/EQ + winny/Var only/Var + Fina(favorite)/and a few others. Everytime I try a cycle with TEST (tried Enth/Prop/Cyp), I don't notice anything but a little bloat! For whatever reason, the Test is almost "useless" to me.

Thoughts? Is it possible that I don't respond to Test for whatever reason? Even though all gear are derivatives of TEST, other gear works great for me....

 

[Clean]

I don't think you need test in every cycle like others do here.

 

[jubei]

I can't imagine testosterone not working to some degree, although by no means is test a must in every cycle.

 

[JuicePimp]

How much test have you tried using. On this board I will get flamed for this, but try bumping the test to 1g/wk and see how you like it.

Having said that, I dont have anything against people not including test in a cycle, such as a tren/winny, etc. The reason that most include it is not because you cant make good gains without it, but because of how you may feel on some of these compounds without it, i.e. lack of libido, etc.

 

[Clean]

lol 1g/week

 

[LITTLEMAGS]

could be a couple different things...I have done some "test" free cycles and made decent gains. But when I do take test I seem to hold more water around the joints and allows me to push a little heavier weight. I don't like the bloat but it did help me. I do have to say that ever since I have done win/tren/and eq cycle I really have become a stronger fan of the test free cycles.

 

[wnt2bBeast]

How about primo/dbol or primo/var cycles?

 

[AlwaysOn]

I think you DO need test when stacking with something else.

Why?

any steroid shuts you down fast, EVEN var!

so you need supplement with test to compensate. Test is needed for a variety of baseline functions in the human body, not just muscle building.

but that doesn't mean you should be doing grams.
you just need a MINIMUM amount just for baseline functions. Let the other steroids in the stack do the anabolic job (tren is damn anabolic for example).

please karma me, if you agree...hehe

 

[IronJunkey]

its all in science ..read more

 

[Whacked]

its all in science ..read more

Thanks for the intelligent input

 

[bicepts101]

i have found that test does absolutly nothing for me except give me gino. i've gone from 1g/wk 500/wk. both yeilded nothing. if anything not much

it will always be inclued though only at low doses for libido.

 

[Whacked]

The reason that most include it (test) is not because you cant make good gains without it, but because of how you may feel on some of these compounds without it, i.e. lack of libido, etc.

But is that the ONLY argument/reason to add it? Proviron takes care of this for me----just fine!

??

 

[Fat_Sumo]

i have found that test does absolutly nothing for me except give me gino. i've gone from 1g/wk 500/wk. both yeilded nothing. if anything not much

it will always be inclued though only at low doses for libido.

What doses do you run and what type of test ester do you use?

 

[nydj66]

Messages on boards like these convinced me I needed to include test in my cycles and I'm glad I did. 500 mg/week of sust on top of my d-bol/deca cycle was like 2nd puberty. I was hungry all the time, rock hard at the drop of a hat, and had more energy than I knew what to do with.

Then again, I'm 38-years-old and a hard gainer so it could be I need the test.

 

[wnt2bBeast]

i have found that test does absolutly nothing for me except give me gino. i've gone from 1g/wk 500/wk. both yeilded nothing. if anything not much

it will always be inclued though only at low doses for libido.

You did not grow on a gram of test/wk??? What were you using?

 

[jubei]

Yeah, not growing on 1 g of test a week sounds really fucked up...like you got some bunk gear. My first 2 cycles were 250mg sust/week and 500mg sust/week, and each one yeilded good results.

 

[seymoor]

I never use Test - I run everything with Primo - the ultimate steroid

 

[Whacked]

Yeah, not growing on 1 g of test a week sounds really fucked up...like you got some bunk gear.

That's just it though Jubei.......I feel the same way! I just don't respond to TEST!!! ICN's/Spectro (when it 1st came out)/Supra/QV........I tried all these andI keep on being "let down". Even for libido......Proviron is the only time I notice an increase of libido; conversely....I only get shut down a little/mildly on EQ/Tren/Var/Winny.......not VERY noticeably like everyone else.

SO besides the libido thing....which is corrected with only 25 mg/day Proviron why else would I absulutely need Test physiologically-speaking (b/c IMO it doesn't do JACK for me)?

 

[Whacked]

I never use Test - I run everything with Primo - the ultimate steroid

Enth or Ace? I'd personally get SICK of all those damn ED Acetate injects.

 

[bicepts101]

What doses do you run and what type of test ester do you use?

first time 2 times i used turkish sust

prop was added in at the end of one

when i used a gram it was cyp. i bought it myself from the pharmacy. i wasnt on it for a full cycle i couldnt last cause of the gyno it was giving me. so i dropped it to 500 and i will go no higher. i may even drop it 250 split up in to shots.

 

[bicepts101]

Yeah, not growing on 1 g of test a week sounds really fucked up...like you got some bunk gear. My first 2 cycles were 250mg sust/week and 500mg sust/week, and each one yeilded good results.

both times i did sust i ran no more then 500.

the first time i ran it every 4th day.....the second i ran E3D

i barley responded....training was in tact i eat like a horse similar to the way terminator does cuase i dont get fat. protein in take was very high

 

[silver_shadow]

not growing on test really sucks... i have heard of a few rare cases which were similar but i don't know the reason why someone wouldn't grow on test. personally- i love test- i grow well on it AND best of all it is cheaper for me so i cannot see any reason why I should do a test-free cycle.

 

[Whacked]

not growing on test really sucks... i have heard of a few rare cases which were similar but i don't know the reason why someone wouldn't grow on test. personally- i love test- i grow well on it AND best of all it is cheaper for me so i cannot see any reason why I should do a test-free cycle.

I grow in Fina like a weed, but running Fina for every cycle sems like TROUBLE down the road with all the hazards fina brings to the table----SUPPOSEDLY anyway.

WHY would I respond to so well to Fina and NOT Test?
WHAT trouble/problems am I looking for with running Fina every cyce?

(libido is fine with Fina/Proviron!!! so leave that one out)

 

[Triple J]

You body can respond to T by binding it with SHBG (which rises with estrogen levels) and albumin so this is one possible explanation. You need free T for the most benefit. Myself I do not get much out of just T cycles either but have not gone above about 650mg/wk.

 

[Whacked]

You body can respond to T by binding it with SHBG (which rises with estrogen levels) and albumin so this is one possible explanation. You need free T for the most benefit. Myself I do not get much out of just T cycles either but have not gone above about 650mg/wk.

So what TYPE of cycles do you run?

 

[italiansavagebeast]

I think you DO need test when stacking with something else.

Why?

any steroid shuts you down,

so you need supplement with test to compensate. Test is needed for a variety of baseline functions in the human body, not just muscle building.

but that doesn't mean you should be doing grams.
you just need a MINIMUM amount just for baseline functions. Let the other steroids in the stack do the anabolic job (tren is damn anabolic for example).

I think alwayson has mentioned a very important point ... Testosterone is used in MANY baseline functions in the human body, so it is important to replace (compensate) even if you are only using a mild amount (250-400mg/wk).

I am amazed at how many people don't understand that chemicals react differently from person to person. You might not respond to test well, however that is not to say it isn't doing anything!! Give it some time .... Give it some food ... Give it some sleep ... THEN you will see results.

 

[Dial_tone]

I grow well on test but since i'm very susceptible to gyno I don't always use it. I favor anobolic cycles like EQ and/or Deca with anavar nowadays but then i'm not really trying to add much size at this point.

 

[Pakelika]

all i have to say is the people who say test is best don't no shit. you do not need test in every cycle at all even with the drugs that people claim hurt their libido.

 

[Whacked]

all i have to say is the people who say test is best don't no shit. you do not need test in every cycle at all even with the drugs that people claim hurt their libido.

I hear ya, but you care to elaborate?

thanks

 

[psychedout]

I think one anabolic and one androgenic is the way to go.

 

[Fat_Sumo]

I think test is best if you after size and strength, but I am looking more for things like hardness and leaness in which I feel can be accomplished with other anabolic compounds! I already have good size naturally!

 

[Whacked]

androgenic AS's for you

 

[Pakelika]

I hear ya, but you care to elaborate?

thanks

all steroids shut you down to an extent. others more, test has it's side effects. cycle like a var/primo cycle or even an EQ/winny cycle........why would you wanna add test to either of those cycle ? i have ran fina many times without test and it kills test for results in every way, atleast for me

 

[georgie24]

6 test cycles and 6 disapointments......fuck test....it fucks everything up

 

[Triple J]

I like test best but find for gains I need another anabolic with it like EQ, dbol, or winnie. This summer I am going to try to go with a dry cycle of something like masteron and anavar. Although test does not seem to put that much muscle on I recover from them easy and overall they seem healthy for me, if I keep estrogen at bay with letro or adex.

 

[bicepts101]

6 test cycles and 6 disapointments......fuck test....it fucks everything up

i agree

...but im still gonna add it at low doses....something where i dont need an anti-e.......they are putting a bigger hole in my pocket than steroids

 

[Whacked]

6 test cycles and 6 disapointments......fuck test....it fucks everything up

I feel ya! My concern is without TEST specifically running thru the veins, what problems will occur other tha libido related.

And

Since I'm 35-ish, HR T is my probably in my near future If Test doesn't do JACK for me now, what shall I do? Fina Replacement Therapy?