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British Wheel Chair-Bound Man Jailed For Using Pepper Spray To Stop Attacker

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CS SPRAY MAN FACES LEGAL ACTION
This Is Lancashire | Friday 23 May 2003 | staff

A DISABLED man who used CS spray to fight off a robber is now facing the threat of legal action.

Wheelchair-bound Nicholas Ashworth, aged 22, sprayed his alleged attacker in the face with the CS spray.

He then climbed out of his wheelchair and limped across the road as the man screamed in pain. A passing police patrol spotted him in distress and stopped at the scene. Officers then arrested both men.

Today after being released on police bail pending further inquiries -- which could result in police prosecution -- Mr

Ashworth defended his use of the CS spray. He said he bought it to protect himself after being attacked in Bridgeman Street three weeks ago. On that occasion his attacker hit him in the face before pinning him back in his chair. The man then rifled through his pockets and stole £100.

Mr Ashworth, of Fletcher Street, Bolton -- who can walk just a short distance without his wheelchair -- said the incident left him feeling vulnerable.

Only days later he used it when a would-be robber confronted him as Mr Ashworth made his way to a nearby supermarket.

Mr Ashworth said the attacker held a knife at his throat and threatened to stab him. When he refused to hand over his money the man pushed him across the road and into bushes on the other side of the carriageway.

He said when he was threatened again he grabbed the CS canister and sprayed the man in the face.

He said: "I knew it was wrong and against the law but in my view I was acting in self defence. I thought the man was going to kill me.

"It is a sad state of affairs that disabled people like me have to carry such things like CS sprays for protection."

A police spokesman said that they were investigating the illegal use and possession of CS spray. He also revealed that a man was on police bail pending further inquiries into the attempted robbery of Mr Ashworth.
 
HOLY SHIT! your country fucking sucks.

i cant believe this. you guys put a crippled man in jail for using pepper spray to stop someone from mugging him? i'm speechless. really, i dont know what to say.

it's amazing. wow.

did i mention the UK sucks?
 
Seriously, people need to get 'vigilante' and start fucking with the dumbass legislators that pass all these anti self-defense laws in the UK. Once they and their families start getting a taste of it, I guarantee you things will turn around.
 
this is bullshit

i'll keep a lookout to see if it makes national news or even if it results in a conviction

theyre gonna treat this like he was carrying an illegal weapon like a knife. a man can;t defend himself, does something non lethal so he can and he's to blame
 
pepper spray is considered an 'illegal' weapon there? jeez, my mom and sister better think twice about visiting there, because they will end up being locked up.

do the police even carry guns?

wow, a state where all of the citizens are completely disarmed, but the feds have access to any kind of weapon they want; scary thought.

what does the average british person have to say about this? are they 'ok' with this non-sense? are there no lobbying groups trying to change things there?

good god.

i saw a video of some guy who tried to rob a Burger King, and you know what happened to him? not only did the employees disarm him and beat the fucking shit out of him, but they also threw boiling oil all over him, while he was subdued.

guess what? none of them went to jail.
 
Poink, this is not only true in UK but also in Canada. CS Spray is illegal against humans, just like stun guns. I know a girl who got prosecuted for spraying a bastard who was trying to do God knows what. She ended up with a 200$ fine. The aggressor ? Nothing...
 
manny78 said:
Poink, this is not only true in UK but also in Canada. CS Spray is illegal against humans, just like stun guns. I know a girl who got prosecuted for spraying a bastard who was trying to do God knows what. She ended up with a 200$ fine. The aggressor ? Nothing...

that is so fucking retarded. they dont want you to shoot the piece-of-shit trying to mug/rape/murder you, nor do they want you to inflict any sort of damage on them, either.

i guess the only real options are to sit back and allow people to hurt you and your family because some shithead politician is more than ok with that (since he already has his own armed thugs to protect him). or you have to break the law.

how do you people keep these fucking politicians in office? they better be blackmailing you with some pictures of you doing weird sex acts or surrounded by bodies of dead children in your house, because that is the only acceptable reason to continue to vote for these people.
 
p0ink said:


that is so fucking retarded. they dont want you to shoot the piece-of-shit trying to mug/rape/murder you, nor do they want you to inflict any sort of damage on them, either.

i guess the only real options are to sit back and allow people to hurt you and your family because some shithead politician is more than ok with that (since he already has his own armed thugs to protect him). or you have to break the law.

how do you people keep these fucking politicians in office? they better be blackmailing you with some pictures of you doing weird sex acts or surrounded by bodies of dead children in your house, because that is the only acceptable reason to continue to vote for these people.

most people here are stupid liberal/soccer moms. So you know why. It's basically like California ? Why CA is screwed up ? I have no idea. Same with Canada....
 
p0ink said:
HOLY SHIT! your country fucking sucks.

i cant believe this. you guys put a crippled man in jail for using pepper spray to stop someone from mugging him? i'm speechless. really, i dont know what to say.

it's amazing. wow.

did i mention the UK sucks?


This is because pepper spray is illegal. it's an offensive weapon under the firearms act. And quite a serious offense.

and our country doesn't suck!
 
p0ink said:
pepper spray is considered an 'illegal' weapon there? jeez, my mom and sister better think twice about visiting there, because they will end up being locked up.

do the police even carry guns?

wow, a state where all of the citizens are completely disarmed, but the feds have access to any kind of weapon they want; scary thought.

what does the average british person have to say about this? are they 'ok' with this non-sense? are there no lobbying groups trying to change things there?

good god.

i saw a video of some guy who tried to rob a Burger King, and you know what happened to him? not only did the employees disarm him and beat the fucking shit out of him, but they also threw boiling oil all over him, while he was subdued.

guess what? none of them went to jail.

well the boiling oil is excessive.....a person does have some rights ya know

CS gas has bee shown to cause serious side effects, doesnt stop the police using it but i can perhaps understand why its illegal. If they get a small fine (i.e. smack on the wrist) i won;t be outraged. why? because it is an illegal weapon which could be misused...i just really hope there is a distincton in the law between lethal and non-lethal weapons.the idea the victim is getting punished curdles my blood but hopefully the judge will have some sympathy

i will keep my ear to the ground and see if anyone calls out politicians on this on TV. all i know ios if i get attacked, im gonna do everything in my power to keep myself and loved ones safe regardless of what happens here
 
danielson said:


well the boiling oil is excessive.....a person does have some rights ya know

CS gas has bee shown to cause serious side effects, doesnt stop the police using it but i can perhaps understand why its illegal. If they get a small fine (i.e. smack on the wrist) i won;t be outraged. why? because it is an illegal weapon which could be misused...i just really hope there is a distincton in the law between lethal and non-lethal weapons.the idea the victim is getting punished curdles my blood but hopefully the judge will have some sympathy

as for the boiling oil issue...yeah, the guy has rights, but he loses them real fast when he tries to kill another person and steal their money.

i think you should re-read your second paragraph; that is some dangerous thinking right there. you think a weapon should remain illegal because it hurts people, who are trying to hurt you? what am i missing here?

when did you guys become so apathetic about your own personal safety?

you should be outraged that any of these things are declared 'illegal.' your own government is putting your life and the lives of your family in jeopardy by making it illegal to have tools necessary to defend yourself and the ones you love.
 
CASS said:
This is because pepper spray is illegal. it's an offensive weapon under the firearms act. And quite a serious offense.

and our country doesn't suck!

pepper spray is sold here at the fucking dollar store.

pretty soon all blunt objects are going to be banned over there. you better go hide your hammers and wrenches, because your government might want to take them next, since they can be used as an 'offensive weapon.'

oh yeah, you do know almost every type of violent crime (except murder) higher than in america now, right? you know when all of that began? when you guys made protecting yourself illegal.
 
manny78 said:


most people here are stupid liberal/soccer moms. So you know why. It's basically like California ? Why CA is screwed up ? I have no idea. Same with Canada....

blame women and democrats. they dont seem to have the ability to use logic, they simply use emotion.

things are slowly getting better here. you are watching the demise of the democratic party, the lp is gaining stregnth, the weapons ban is set to expire in 2004 (delay said he wont even bring it up for a vote...they dont call him the hammer for nothing), and the number of women who support this ban dropped from 75% to 54% in the last three years.

things are turning around, except for in california, but no freedom loving american would ever move there any how.
 
p0ink said:


as for the boiling oil issue...yeah, the guy has rights, but he loses them real fast when he tries to kill another person and steal their money.

i think you should re-read your second paragraph; that is some dangerous thinking right there. you think a weapon should remain illegal because it hurts people, who are trying to hurt you? what am i missing here?

when did you guys become so apathetic about your own personal safety?

you should be outraged that any of these things are declared 'illegal.' your own government is putting your life and the lives of your family in jeopardy by making it illegal to have tools necessary to defend yourself and the ones you love.

no on the contrary i think he shoudnt be punished for using that weapon in self defence, or if he is its a punishment in name only

i think it should be illegal to use the non-lethal weapons offensivly, in clear cases of self defence if i was to pull out my training rattan and beat the pulp out of an attacker i dont think i should be getting in any trouble

im hoping there will be an outcry over this if he is prosecuted. the government can;t get enough police on the streets so its dis-allowing people to protect themselves. doesnt make sense
 
p0ink said:


pepper spray is sold here at the fucking dollar store.

pretty soon all blunt objects are going to be banned over there. you better go hide your hammers and wrenches, because your government might want to take them next, since they can be used as an 'offensive weapon.'

oh yeah, you do know almost every type of violent crime (except murder) higher than in america now, right? you know when all of that began? when you guys made protecting yourself illegal.


i know it's sold all over the place in the US, i visited the US all the time.

it's just that pepper spray is classed as a firearm, and we are not allowed firearms.
 
danielson said:
i think it should be illegal to use the non-lethal weapons offensivly, in clear cases of self defence if i was to pull out my training rattan and beat the pulp out of an attacker i dont think i should be getting in any trouble

like how we do it here, in the US?

if someone uses a 'legal' weapon for no reason, they get charged. if they use it for defense, fine. we dont need to declare silly shit like pepper spray 'illegal'.
 
CASS said:



i know it's sold all over the place in the US, i visited the US all the time.

it's just that pepper spray is classed as a firearm, and we are not allowed firearms.

it is here too, but no one gives a shit about the law. We carry pepper spray, stun guns and handguns all the time.
 
manny78 said:


it is here too, but no one gives a shit about the law. We carry pepper spray, stun guns and handguns all the time.

looks like my mom and sister would be outlaws in canada as well.
 
UK people,

are there any grass roots effort to get your right to defend yourself back? if there is, i suggest you joing one.
 
p0ink said:
UK people,

are there any grass roots effort to get your right to defend yourself back? if there is, i suggest you joing one.



If not for the UK, we would enjoy braggin rights for lunatic legislation and laws.
 
the mums groups are moving to get samurai swords banned next :rolleyes:....they usually succeed as some whore/politician smells good PR and pushes legislation

the worst thing i saw was when the relative (mum) of a police shooting complained becasue her mentally ill son tried to attack a police officer with a samurai sword.

1) its media exploitation of her
2) if he was trying to attack the officer and kill him thats justification for shooting which she refutes
3) groups out there are now saying he wouldnt have attacked anyone if the sword wasnt availible to him :rolleyes:


britain never used to be like this. i blame americans :D
 
He was not 'jailed'. He was taken to the police station and questioned........then released on bail. The police were just trying to find out what happened for fucks sake.

p0ink said:
HOLY SHIT! your country fucking sucks.

i cant believe this. you guys put a crippled man in jail for using pepper spray to stop someone from mugging him? i'm speechless. really, i dont know what to say.

it's amazing. wow.

did i mention the UK sucks?
 
danielson said:
the mums groups are moving to get samurai swords banned next :rolleyes:....they usually succeed as some whore/politician smells good PR and pushes legislation

the worst thing i saw was when the relative (mum) of a police shooting complained becasue her mentally ill son tried to attack a police officer with a samurai sword.

1) its media exploitation of her
2) if he was trying to attack the officer and kill him thats justification for shooting which she refutes
3) groups out there are now saying he wouldnt have attacked anyone if the sword wasnt availible to him :rolleyes:


britain never used to be like this. i blame americans :D

when are you (and others) going to stop taking it in the ass from your politicians? why not atleast try to get something going? it couldnt hurt to atleast try.
 
p0ink said:


when are you (and others) going to stop taking it in the ass from your politicians? why not atleast try to get something going? it couldnt hurt to atleast try.

nothing has hapened as yet. if it does i'm sure martial artsts round the country will get pissed, and probably will be exempt from the laws as a result

if not i will sign as many petitions as i can, write to my politician etc etc.




as for the other stuff, again we will see if he is convicted. if there is i am pretty sure there will be outcry about it. i think if he is it will rival the tony martin case.....
 
Poink, you're country's people are taking it in the ass from the Patriot Act(s). Are you doing anything about that?

As best I can, I've been writing Canadian reporters & politicians about our 'anti-terrorism' legislation. 85% of this stuff has nothing to do with preventing terrorist activity.

We should all (people of the world) be standing up (so to speak) for our freedoms, because our 'leaders' aren't.
 
I dont know about any of the other UK residents but I rarely feel threatened even though I am not allowed to carry a gun. Coming from somebody who used to live in a very rough part of Birmingham (the real Birmingham.......in the UK.......a crime hotspot) I think that says something.

Poink has blown this out of all proportion........the police were doing their job. Being in a wheelchair does not exempt you from following the law.
 
simple solution for intruders: kill them, they are a threat to your home, life, and property. it's self defense and make sure you use you gun to do it too. nothing like scaring the anti-gunners in this country who somehow think guns out of people's hands makes a safer nation. how is a nation safer when the criminals have the advantage?
 
UpperTone said:
Note to self... stay out of the U.K.

:confused:


It's not that bad!! LOL

however pepper spray is a firarm, due to the way it is delivered. - by the gas that propells it! (sp?)
 
Imnotdutch said:


2 brain cells + trying to look intelligent = fucking dumbass comment

Dont be pissy. Your consitution is apparently just the sum of all your laws which offers less protection than a fundamental guideline like the US constitution
 
True the patriot act is complete bullshit

anyone see the part in the patriot act II about making it a terroristic offense to investigaet the monetary holdings of top govt officials?

who are the fucking kidding
 
UpperTone said:
Poink, you're country's people are taking it in the ass from the Patriot Act(s). Are you doing anything about that?

As best I can, I've been writing Canadian reporters & politicians about our 'anti-terrorism' legislation. 85% of this stuff has nothing to do with preventing terrorist activity.

We should all (people of the world) be standing up (so to speak) for our freedoms, because our 'leaders' aren't.

republicans already agreeed to let the patriot act sunset. they already said they arent going to seek its extension.

and who ever said i supported it?

plus, i have written to my representatives on several occasions. fortunately, our laws arent as retarded as the UK's yet. if they were, you can bet your ass i would be taking it to the streets on an effort to help change things.
 
Last edited:
Imnotdutch said:
Poink has blown this out of all proportion........the police were doing their job. Being in a wheelchair does not exempt you from following the law.

and what a stupid law it is; go to jail for trying to defend yourself with something as stupid as pepper spray. give me a break.

have you really sat down and thought about that?
 
The way you put it he spent days in a cell........he did not.

Look at it from the police man / womans point of view. The guy in the wheelchair hurt somebody else for an unknown reason. They both went to the station to establish the reason.

Would you still feel the same if the guy in the chair had just gone up to a random person and put ppper spray in their face? Without establishing what happened the police would not know that this had happened or not. In this country establishing this involves interviews at the station. It is called a controlled environment.........arguably the best environment for getting the job done.

And of course the USA has the finest law and law enforcement in the world huh.........I couldnt really look up things far worse than this that happened in the USA if I didnt actually have a life.......could I?

p0ink said:


and what a stupid law it is; go to jail for trying to defend yourself with something as stupid as pepper spray. give me a break.

have you really sat down and thought about that?
 
Frackal said:


Dont be pissy. Your consitution is apparently just the sum of all your laws which offers less protection than a fundamental guideline like the US constitution

How much time have you actually spent in the UK living under its laws? Or are you judging us based upon Poinks posts?? Oh dont tell me........I already know the answer to that one.

As I have previously stated, our country is so dangerous that a whiteboy like me can walk around what is meant to be one of our hotspots where whites are a minority witohut any problems........can you say the same about the worst areas in your country?? Of course you cant.......seems our system works just fine to me.
 
p0ink said:
HOLY SHIT! your country fucking sucks.

i cant believe this. you guys put a crippled man in jail for using pepper spray to stop someone from mugging him? i'm speechless. really, i dont know what to say.

it's amazing. wow.

did i mention the UK sucks?

The REAL Pepper spray(The one he used) can damage your retina severely rendering you blind for life.

Thats the definition of an offensive weapon.

Now, if he used the commercial brand(less effective), but works nontheless he would not have gotten into any problems.

I don't hink he will go to jail though if he didn't do permanent damage.

He will get community service b/c he was being attacked and was DISABLED(Key word here) and was fighting in self-defence albeit illegally.

FOnz
 
Fonz said:


The REAL Pepper spray(The one he used) can damage your retina severely rendering you blind for life.



THATS PRETTY SPIFFY LARRY. HOWEVER, I'M SURE AN ATTACKER CAN RENDER YOU BLIND FOR LIFE AS WELL. MATTER OF FACT, AN ATTACKER CAN RENDER YOU DEAD FOR LIFE. SO WHY THE FUCK IS THIS EVEN AN ISSUE......THE GUY WAS PROTECTING HIMSELF.
 
KAYNE said:
THATS PRETTY SPIFFY LARRY. HOWEVER, I'M SURE AN ATTACKER CAN RENDER YOU BLIND FOR LIFE AS WELL. MATTER OF FACT, AN ATTACKER CAN RENDER YOU DEAD FOR LIFE. SO WHY THE FUCK IS THIS EVEN AN ISSUE......THE GUY WAS PROTECTING HIMSELF.

By carrying an illegal weapon.............that is the key point here.
 
p0ink said:


republicans already agreeed to let the patriot act sunset. they already said they arent going to seek its extension.

and who ever said i supported it?


Don't count on that. With an open ended 'war on terrorism', it will only take the occasional event to keep these laws in place.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2003/04/09/MN257910.DTL

I didn't say you supported it.

BTW, there are some segments of the PA which are not included in the sunset clause. I'll post them later.
 
Fonz said:


The REAL Pepper spray(The one he used) can damage your retina severely rendering you blind for life.

Thats the definition of an offensive weapon.

Now, if he used the commercial brand(less effective), but works nontheless he would not have gotten into any problems.

I don't hink he will go to jail though if he didn't do permanent damage.

He will get community service b/c he was being attacked and was DISABLED(Key word here) and was fighting in self-defence albeit illegally.

FOnz


Sorry fonz, thats not correct, thats not why it is an offensive weapon. it doesn't matter what the effectiveness or strength of the spray. all pepper spray is illegal in the UK.
 
manny78 said:


if guns are so evil and useless then why do many police dept. in the UK now issue handguns to their patrol officers ?


They don't.


only a small number are armed.
 
Imnotdutch said:
The way you put it he spent days in a cell........he did not.

Look at it from the police man / womans point of view. The guy in the wheelchair hurt somebody else for an unknown reason. They both went to the station to establish the reason.

Would you still feel the same if the guy in the chair had just gone up to a random person and put ppper spray in their face? Without establishing what happened the police would not know that this had happened or not. In this country establishing this involves interviews at the station. It is called a controlled environment.........arguably the best environment for getting the job done.

And of course the USA has the finest law and law enforcement in the world huh.........I couldnt really look up things far worse than this that happened in the USA if I didnt actually have a life.......could I?


if guns are so evil and useless then why do many police dept. in the UK now issue handguns to their patrol officers ?
 
CASS said:



They don't.


only a small number are armed.

I think Manchester recently issued Glock 17, I might be the wrong on the city but American Riffle mentionned at least 3 of them issuing guns...
 
CASS said:



Sorry fonz, thats not correct, thats not why it is an offensive weapon. it doesn't matter what the effectiveness or strength of the spray. all pepper spray is illegal in the UK.

how do you deal with mad dogs ?
 
only small number of officers who have been selected via rigourus testing carry them. there is no force in this country where all officers carry guns.

glock 17 - seems a bit expensive for them to buy. i know the force in my area, of th efew that carry they are H&K and i think brownings.
 
Imnotdutch said:


How much time have you actually spent in the UK living under its laws? Or are you judging us based upon Poinks posts?? Oh dont tell me........I already know the answer to that one.

As I have previously stated, our country is so dangerous that a whiteboy like me can walk around what is meant to be one of our hotspots where whites are a minority witohut any problems........can you say the same about the worst areas in your country?? Of course you cant.......seems our system works just fine to me.



That probably has more to do with your culture and possible lower minority count than your laws
 
manny78 said:


how do you deal with mad dogs ?

good question! LOL

either run like fuck or get bitten!!!!!!

anyway would you want to spray a big, nasty, powerful dog that wants to bite you, cause h emay not see you after but all that you will do is piss him off. i would not want that running around not being able to see and pissed off, it would bite anything it could!

if there that mad, they will shoot them
 
Probably and possibly??????????? Clutching at straws here huh.

You mean our culture where we are not permitted to carry weapons. Lower minority count? Uh ok............

Frackal said:




That probably has more to do with your culture and possible lower minority count than your laws
 
Robert Jan said:
I agree this guy was not doing anything bad.

but how do you formulate a law that does that

by allowing citizens to protect themselves with weapons.
 
Fonz said:


The REAL Pepper spray(The one he used) can damage your retina severely rendering you blind for life.

Thats the definition of an offensive weapon.

why is there so much worry about the welfare of the attacker over there?

in america, when someone attacks us, we shoot to fucking kill.
 
manny78 said:


if guns are so evil and useless then why do many police dept. in the UK now issue handguns to their patrol officers ?

The police in the UK only issue guns to very highly trained officers. These officers generally form special units that respond to serious threats. I have only ever seen one armed police officer on patrol.........that was in Birmingham.

The point is that it is a bad idea for a gun to get into the wrong hands. A highly trained officer is not the wrong hands.........Joe Average is IMO the wrong hands.
 
Imnotdutch said:


The police in the UK only issue guns to very highly trained officers. These officers generally form special units that respond to serious threats. I have only ever seen one armed police officer on patrol.........that was in Birmingham.

The point is that it is a bad idea for a gun to get into the wrong hands. A highly trained officer is not the wrong hands.........Joe Average is IMO the wrong hands.

no, guns are only dangerous when they are solely in the hands of the government.

see nazi germany.

see cuba.
 
Imnotdutch said:


The police in the UK only issue guns to very highly trained officers. These officers generally form special units that respond to serious threats. I have only ever seen one armed police officer on patrol.........that was in Birmingham.

The point is that it is a bad idea for a gun to get into the wrong hands. A highly trained officer is not the wrong hands.........Joe Average is IMO the wrong hands.

Sorry but the average Joe who shoots every week at the gun range, participates to IPSC competition, is probably a better shooter than most officers I know.

BTW in order to have a CCW in Canada and some US STates, you need to qualify......
 
Then surely you aren't talking about Joe Average. You are talking about somebody who takes time to train seriously and compete........not every member of the population does that so you are not talking about Joe Average.

manny78 said:


Sorry but the average Joe who shoots every week at the gun range, participates to IPSC competition, is probably a better shooter than most officers I know.

BTW in order to have a CCW in Canada and some US STates, you need to qualify......
 
Imnotdutch said:
Then surely you aren't talking about Joe Average. You are talking about somebody who takes time to train seriously and compete........not every member of the population does that so you are not talking about Joe Average.


can we agree these persons should have the right to carry then ?
 
manny78 said:


can we agree these persons should have the right to carry then ?

If there were limits upon what they could carry then I would not have a problem with that at all. But if you are saying that they can carry an uzi if they want to.....then no.

I am not against guns full stop........I just think it inappropriate to let untrained or immoral people carry them.
 
manny78 said:


Sorry but the average Joe who shoots every week at the gun range, participates to IPSC competition, is probably a better shooter than most officers I know.

BTW in order to have a CCW in Canada and some US STates, you need to qualify......

but the officers would have training about when to shoot, how to shoot in combat etc. i can probably shoot better than a lot of them but i dont get that kind of training on a regular basis


i do think everyone has the right to a gun, especially nowadays, current gun leglislation only took firearms away from legal owners, criminals weren;t affected. but i SERIOUSLY worry at the thoughts of your average person being allowed a firearm, the potential for misuse there is HUGE. a concealed carry permit is very different to a home permit.....
 
Imnotdutch said:


The police in the UK only issue guns to very highly trained officers. These officers generally form special units that respond to serious threats. I have only ever seen one armed police officer on patrol.........that was in Birmingham.

The point is that it is a bad idea for a gun to get into the wrong hands. A highly trained officer is not the wrong hands.........Joe Average is IMO the wrong hands.


couldn't agree more. i'm with on his one bro.
 
Imnotdutch said:


If there were limits upon what they could carry then I would not have a problem with that at all. But if you are saying that they can carry an uzi if they want to.....then no.

I am not against guns full stop........I just think it inappropriate to let untrained or immoral people carry them.

Inappropriate? Based on what evidence? Based on the worn-out rhetoric, backed by no proof, proposed by anti-gun fear-mongerers, that if guns were in the hands of the common man, there would be anarchy and terror and the streets would be running red? Sounds much like the paranoia of the early days when electricity was being introduced to homes. There were those who propagandized against it claiming that everyone would be electricuted and that electricity would be constantly bombarding the homeowners.

Immoral people get guns whether it is illegal or not, do you people not understand this? This is the definition of criminal.
 
CS is not pepper spray it is what is called mace. Also, what serious side effects? I haven't heard of any other than severe pain and the stopping of an attacker.

I guess it is really true that it is illegal to defend ones self in Europe. Oh well, guess I'll never visit.
 
fogg88 said:
Seriously, people need to get 'vigilante' and start fucking with the dumbass legislators that pass all these anti self-defense laws in the UK. Once they and their families start getting a taste of it, I guarantee you things will turn around.


fogg will you pm me and tell me how to get that strong bad avatar. strongbad friggin rocks.
 
chesty said:
CS is not pepper spray it is what is called mace. Also, what serious side effects? I haven't heard of any other than severe pain and the stopping of an attacker.

I guess it is really true that it is illegal to defend ones self in Europe. Oh well, guess I'll never visit.



in medical studies over exposure to CS has been shown to be a cause of cancer.
 
chesty said:
CS is not pepper spray it is what is called mace. Also, what serious side effects? I haven't heard of any other than severe pain and the stopping of an attacker.

I guess it is really true that it is illegal to defend ones self in Europe. Oh well, guess I'll never visit.

There are 2 types:

1. Chemical Spray(Mace) used by hunters against wild animals when they find themselves in danger(Specially bears they can sneak up on you in your camp-site). This spray is illegal and justly so. It can severely hurt your retina...actually destroy parts of it.

2. Pepper Spray: Commercial available and non-lethal...THIS can be carried around except its effective range is poor and its only an irritant that has to be sprayed like 5-10ft right at the face of the attacker. The attacker can shrug it off easily...and then will; just end up more pissed off and determined to hurt the person he meant to attack.

Please REMEMBER, the person being attacked was disabled...his mobility was impaired to aim and blast away.

I'm not remotely surprised he procured himself some CS spray.

I'm complately with the person that was attacked. F*ck the attacker. He attacked a completely disabled man in a wheelchair for gods sake.

He's a piece of hit and deserves the pain of the CS spray 10-fold.

I hope they just confiscate the CS and give the disabled man community service. Thet'll teach those damn neb crack-heads not to attack disabled people for their belongings/money.

Fonz
 
CASS said:




in medical studies over exposure to CS has been shown to be a cause of cancer.

You must be kidding, right?

Nitrates have been linked to cancers also. I guess we should outlaw processed meats, cause someone might beat a person with a tube of bologna and they may get cancer.
 
Sex will kill you too! And who in the fuck would over expose themselves to cs gas. We carried it on patrol till we switched to pepper spray and in the Marines we trained with cs all the time. That shit won't hurt you anymore than a glass of water. Ooops, water can kill too.

There are to types of tear gas (cs and cn) I believe the cn contains a vomiting agent (real nasty) the cs just smells awful and makes your eyes burn and water, that is about it.\

They should fry the attacker, and give the victim a reward.
 
chesty said:
Sex will kill you too! And who in the fuck would over expose themselves to cs gas. We carried it on patrol till we switched to pepper spray and in the Marines we trained with cs all the time. That shit won't hurt you anymore than a glass of water. Ooops, water can kill too.

There are to types of tear gas (cs and cn) I believe the cn contains a vomiting agent (real nasty) the cs just smells awful and makes your eyes burn and water, that is about it.\

They should fry the attacker, and give the victim a reward.

over exposure can be a cause of cancer, first off anyone who carries it and uses it regularly over a long period of time, this has been proven in various UK medical studies. so yea it's alot more dangerous than water, it can also lead to breathing difficuties in those who are sprayed in the person is sensitive to it.

these 2 points are why alot of forces etc are switching to pepper.

i am in a good position to know what im talking about here.


You must be kidding, right?


no im not kidding, i don't kid when its something as serious as cancer.
 
Imnotdutch said:


If there were limits upon what they could carry then I would not have a problem with that at all. But if you are saying that they can carry an uzi if they want to.....then no.

I am not against guns full stop........I just think it inappropriate to let untrained or immoral people carry them.

First I doubt someone could carry a UZI, excpet in Vermont maybe. Byt you must be dumb to carry a full-auto. There're few situations where a full-auto will be useful. And none of them include self-defence. For those who have doubts well remember this, the RCMP doesn't have a single full-auto weapon. Nada. Even the ERT only has semi-auto. Just look at the US Amry, they switched from the M-16A1 (single and full-auto) to the M16A2 (single and three round burst) for a reason....
 
Are you trying to sound stupid???????

atlantabiolab said:


Inappropriate? Based on what evidence? Based on the worn-out rhetoric, backed by no proof, proposed by anti-gun fear-mongerers, that if guns were in the hands of the common man, there would be anarchy and terror and the streets would be running red? Sounds much like the paranoia of the early days when electricity was being introduced to homes. There were those who propagandized against it claiming that everyone would be electricuted and that electricity would be constantly bombarding the homeowners.

Immoral people get guns whether it is illegal or not, do you people not understand this? This is the definition of criminal.
 
Uzi was an example.........I am just saying that there should be limits on what you can carry even if you are trained and competing.

manny78 said:


First I doubt someone could carry a UZI, excpet in Vermont maybe. Byt you must be dumb to carry a full-auto. There're few situations where a full-auto will be useful. And none of them include self-defence. For those who have doubts well remember this, the RCMP doesn't have a single full-auto weapon. Nada. Even the ERT only has semi-auto. Just look at the US Amry, they switched from the M-16A1 (single and full-auto) to the M16A2 (single and three round burst) for a reason....
 
Imnotdutch said:
Are you trying to sound stupid???????


Would it make it easier for you to understand?

What would I expect from one who thinks it acceptable that his government infringes on his right to reasonable personal protection.

Now it is your turn to throw in the retarded possibility that somehow self-protection equates to Uzi's and bazookas in the hands of the populace.
 
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