Body Opus quote on excess protein

[JJFigure]

A friend and I were discussing whether or not cyclical low carb/ketogenic diets are anabolic or not - specifically for women, so I was re-reading Body Opus while my friend was going through NHE. Anyway, I ran across a statement in Body Opus my friend and I couldn't recall ever hearing before:

page 282 - Fat-Protein Ratios

Most excess protein intake is scavenged by the liver for gluconeogenic amino acids, and the rest is turned into (saturated) fat.

Excess protein is turned into saturated fat? Is this true?

 

[Millie]

hmmm, that is really interesting. i would like to hear the answer to that too.

also, what amount of protein is considered excess intake? maybe this is covered in the CKD manuals, but i haven't looked at them in a long time. i am thinking of trying a CKD again in a couple of months though.

 

[MS]

Protein will only get converted to fat after all of your protein and glucose needs have been met, AND if you're eating excess calories. Generally the body will not convert protein to fat as long as it has plenty of it's own fat to burn during a caloric deficit. If the caloric deficit is too extreme or goes on for too long then it could happen. It's more likely that that much protein would be used for gluconeogenesis and just kick you out of ketosis instead, though as much as 40% of amino acids can also go into ketone body production.

 

[JJFigure]

Thanks MS (again)! That makes more sense - Duchaine's statement was very vague.

According to Duchaine, protein intake over 30% of total kcals is excess. Of course, that brings up the question of how much dietary protein is really absorbed? Where did he come up with that "magic" excess number? He didn't quote any references or anything. When I get my NHE book back, I'll see what Faigin (Mr. Reference) references.

 

[JP@Ironology]

bump.

 

[MS]

Hmmm, I suspect maybe he merely meant that too much protein while trying to establish or maintain ketosis is not a good idea? This makes more sense, since excess protein can definitely kick you out of ketosis, which I believe would defeat the purpose of the diet he was advocating at the time. There is certainly nothing wrong with higher protein intakes, and they definitely don't lead to fat gain for most people, but too much protein is definitely incompatible with ketosis. I would be more than a little surprised (and disappointed) if he believed that you couldn't actually absorb more protein from the intestines!

 

[Burning_Inside]

to get into ketosis its recommended 1.5 grams of fat for every gram of protein. and remember you need to keep daily cals below bmr....

 

[PwB]

Burning_Inside, that is his reccomendation and he is wrong. ratios dont matter on keto diets at all, except for children w/ epilepsy.

MS, his limit on protein most definitely comes from the fact that too much protein will prevent ketosis. As you well know higher protein intakes are beneficial while dieting, but on a ketogenic diet they can only be so high as a lot of protein is converted to glucose via gluconeogenesis, which will kick you out of ketosis. The thing is ketosis isn't really anything special.

 

[JJFigure]

Well, he did write the book a while ago, so it's possible he would have changed his mind on ketosis if he re-wrote it today. Too bad he's no longer with us.

DiPasquale recommended the ratio 40-45% pro, 50-55% fat, 5-10% carb. Faigin didn't actually put out a specific recommendation - just "moderate protein intake". Of course, neither of these diets are truly ketogenic diets, but they work quite well. I'm still curious though, how much protein is actually absorbed. Let's take a person who weighs 150 lbs. and consumes 1xbodyweight of protein (150 grams), evenly spread into 6 meals/day. How much of that is really absorbed? Are you better off eating more protein to ensure your body absorbs enough?