Big Bro needed for solid advice

[treadwell]

Big Bro needed for solid advice - endurance guy needs help

So here’s my deal:

This is a bit wordy, but I want to paint as accurate and complete a picture as possible. I’ll really appreciate your patience. I’m 36 years old, and want to do my first cycle.

For years I struggled with my weight. I’m 5’10 and had hovered around 205-215 since my early 20s. I started lifting several years ago, was active, ran, biked a lot, but always struggled with my diet and a bf% over 20%.

About a year ago I made a commitment to take things more seriously and signed on with a talented trainer, who helped me add structure to my routine and approach, tweaked my diet several times, and for the past 4 months I’ve held steady at 180-185# and 10-12%bf. I have ab definition for the first time in my life and feel great. You can check out my profile for a recent pic.

I’m now really struggling to pack on more weight – as my metabolism is unbelievably unforgiving when I start adding more calories - I put on fat very easily. So I consume approx 2200 cals a day…lift 4 days a week and do cardio at a HR of 140-160 for 45 mins 6 days a week. I eat clean, take a multivitamin, zinc, extra C, joint support and a metabolic booster daily. I use creatine post-workout and glutamine before bed.

I also have started training to do a marathon in the fall 0r 2006 with a buddy (a guy more like a lil’ bro to me – he’s 29 and jacked, it seems to come so easily to him and sometimes it really makes me nuts). Are marathon training and weight training incompatible? I’ll be working up to maybe 75 miles a week (from my current 15, plus other cardio-cross-training). Or will they compliment each other and will my cardio help keep me lean while I cycle and increase my caloric intake?

Some of the girls at the gym started coming up to me a few months ago and telling me I looked really good – that I had accomplished a lot and should be proud to be showing such great results. This made me feel incredible, as I’m sure you can all relate.

Call me a narcissist, but I want more than that.

I do work with a trainer who is completely natural, and tells me we can do this naturally. But I feel like I have to work so unbelievably hard for minimal gains, and my monthly measurements ebb back and forth, never really lurching forward and leaving me feeling discouraged and de-motivated.

I want to do a cycle, but am torn whether I want to do one which will help me make slow, sustainable gains without giving the outward sign that I’ve gone nuts on test, breaking out all over my body or putting pounds of water on my face or, conversely, one that packs on 15-20 lbs (prolly a combination of sust, deca, dbol and pct) for immediate result and gratification. I work in sales and need to present myself as professional, confident and charismatic. It may turn out that a 10-12 week cycle of test and pct for a few weeks is just fine, and I’ll gear up for the next, more involved cycle. But honestly, I’ve changed usernames and need some encouragement and karma.

Your thoughts, gentlemen? I need a big bro here.

 

[wayneboard1]

So here’s my deal:

This is a bit wordy, but I want to paint as accurate and complete a picture as possible. I’ll really appreciate your patience. I’m 36 years old, and want to do my first cycle.

For years I struggled with my weight. I’m 5’10 and had hovered around 205-215 since my early 20s. I started lifting several years ago, was active, ran, biked a lot, but always struggled with my diet and a bf% over 20%.

About a year ago I made a commitment to take things more seriously and signed on with a talented trainer, who helped me add structure to my routine and approach, tweaked my diet several times, and for the past 4 months I’ve held steady at 180-185# and 10-12%bf. I have ab definition for the first time in my life and feel great. You can check out my profile for a recent pic.

I’m now really struggling to pack on more weight – as my metabolism is unbelievably unforgiving when I start adding more calories - I put on fat very easily. So I consume approx 2200 cals a day…lift 4 days a week and do cardio at a HR of 140-160 for 45 mins 6 days a week. I eat clean, take a multivitamin, zinc, extra C, joint support and a metabolic booster daily. I use creatine post-workout and glutamine before bed.

I also have started training to do a marathon in the fall 0r 2006 with a buddy (a guy more like a lil’ bro to me – he’s 29 and jacked, it seems to come so easily to him and sometimes it really makes me nuts). Are marathon training and weight training incompatible? I’ll be working up to maybe 75 miles a week (from my current 15, plus other cardio-cross-training). Or will they compliment each other and will my cardio help keep me lean while I cycle and increase my caloric intake?

Some of the girls at the gym started coming up to me a few months ago and telling me I looked really good – that I had accomplished a lot and should be proud to be showing such great results. This made me feel incredible, as I’m sure you can all relate.

Call me a narcissist, but I want more than that.

I do work with a trainer who is completely natural, and tells me we can do this naturally. But I feel like I have to work so unbelievably hard for minimal gains, and my monthly measurements ebb back and forth, never really lurching forward and leaving me feeling discouraged and de-motivated.

I want to do a cycle, but am torn whether I want to do one which will help me make slow, sustainable gains without giving the outward sign that I’ve gone nuts on test, breaking out all over my body or putting pounds of water on my face or, conversely, one that packs on 15-20 lbs (prolly a combination of sust, deca, dbol and pct) for immediate result and gratification. I work in sales and need to present myself as professional, confident and charismatic. It may turn out that a 10-12 week cycle of test and pct for a few weeks is just fine, and I’ll gear up for the next, more involved cycle. But honestly,
Your thoughts, gentlemen? I need a big bro here.

Bro, this is an excellent post until the end. Source talk is NOT ALLOWED. Please edit this post ASAP and eliminate the last sentence looking for a source or you can be banned. There is a thread at the top of this forum titled "Newbies MUST READ" please read that. My next post will be to help you here as we seem to be built the same.

 

[blueghost]

If you're trying to gain weight I dont think training for a marathon is really the right way to go. Aside from that most people are going to probably suggest a first cycle of test at 10 - 12 weeks. My first cycle was six weeks of winny tabs at 50 mg per day. I gained a very lean 10 pounds, and have kept the gains almost a year later. The test will probably give you up to 20 pounds but it may not be that lean, and you will probably lose some of it.

 

[wayneboard1]

Some questions.

1) What is your daily protein intake?

2) Are you wanting to get big or be a runner? In my opinion, it is much harder to do both. I think you can do it, but it sounds like you want a lean bulk. I would suggest a low dose of test (250 a week) and maybe even some EQ. If you do have your diet in check, then you might respond well to that lean bulker.

3) if you are wanting to run a marathon, then I don't think you would want to pack on extra weight, doesn't that kind of defeat the purpose of running long distances?

4) What does your workout routine look like? If you are doing a circuit type routine, then simply changing to a more mass oriented routine would help a good amount I would imagine. Instead of lifting high reps low weight, go high weight low reps, pyramid down, or run the 5X5 routine, etc. Without knowing what you are doing I can't answer that of course.

5) I feel your pain as I can actually gfain muscle quite easily but along with that blessing is the cuirse of fat. I have to set up camp on the eliptical to lose fat and eat like a dadgum anabolic bird. Such is the body God gave me.

 

[Indy]

RADAR would have offered great advice.....

 

[gunnermuscle]

Marathon training and mass building are nearly diameterically opposed...to do one you can not do the other...at least well...they are both extreme ends of working out and the supplements/routines involved for one are nearly completely opposite of the other.

Plus there is no way anyone here can tell you exactly what to take for gear or how much to take to prevent sides as you described in your post (acne,bloating,full face etc) Everyone responds differently to the various steroids (my best friend NEVER gets a zit even when taking buckets of TEST-and I breakout just looking at a vial)and just by using sensibly and moderately can you determine how youll respond.

The only real way to put on muscle, stay at a low BF ratio , and not have anyone notice is to do it very slowly -so trying to gain 15-20 lbs in one cycle is probably not the way. Low/moderate dosages of gear allow a muscle gain over a longer period of time unfortunetly, but it tends to be permanent...and the sides are easily fixed should some occur after a few weeks.Most people will just be impressed that your progress is ongoing and people you havent seen in a while will be the really surprised ones.

That said it sounds like youve made some great gains on your physique at an age when most guys are slacking off.Keep it up!!!

 

[treadwell]

Following up with Wayne:

***

I realize the contradiction of high caloric output in my marathon training and trying to put muscle on at the same time. This is why I'm hoping there are guys out there who have been there or may have some experience and insight. Yes, LEAN BULK is definitely the goal here.

When I follow my diet to the letter (and I'm back to being pretty strict about it), I'm consuming about 2100 cals a day, 5 meals a day, broken down ~27%, 54%, 22% pro/carb/fat. So protein is about 135g more or less. This is a cutting diet, yes, but again I add fat weight easily.

I don't intend to run a lot of marathons...this may be a one-shot deal. It's one of those ambitions I've always had and now a commitment I've made with my lil' bro. I certainly don't want to lose muscle mass to run, I'm not a hard-core runner (80-mile bike rides in the summer are not uncommon, though. Guess I'm an endurance guy).

My lifting routines are usually about 45-60 mins in length...a 4-day split starting with major muscle groups at 3 sets, 15 reps, working down to the more minor muscle groups and lower reps and sets.

At my last check-in, I was:

52 sh
44 ch
14 a (cold - arms outstretched)
33w
~12% bf

keep in mind I'm still working to lose another 4# of december cookies and cocktails - come down 4 so far.

I think and talk about my weight and training so much my friends and family have warned me that I'm becoming a bore. The only way for me to make real progress toward my goals, it seems, is to obsess.

Again, i appreciate the help.

 

[wayneboard1]

Following up with Wayne:

***

I realize the contradiction in high caloric output in my marathon training and trying to put muscle on at the same time. This is why I'm hoping there are guys out there who have been there or may have some experience and insight. Yes, LEAN BULK is definitely the goal here.

When I follow my diet to the letter (and I'm back to being pretty strict about it), I'm consuming about 2100 cals a day, 5 meals a day, broken down ~27%, 54%, 22% pro/carb/fat. So protein is about 135g more or less. This is a cutting diet, yes, but again I add fat weight easily.

I don't intend to run a lot of marathons...this may be a one-shot deal. It's one of those ambitions I've always had and now a commitment I've made with my lil' bro. I certainly don't want to lose muscle mass to run, I'm not a hard-core runner (80-mile bike rides in the summer are not uncommon, though. Guess I'm an endurance guy).

My lifting routines are usually about 45-60 mins in length...a 4-day split starting with major muscle groups at 3 sets, 15 reps, working down to the more minor muscle groups and lower reps and sets.

At my last check-in, I was:

52 sh
44 ch
14 a (cold - arms outstretched)
33w
~12% bf

keep in mind I'm still working to lose another 4# of december cookies and cocktails - come down 4 so far.

I think and talk about my weight and training so much my friends and family have warned me that I'm becoming a bore. The only way for me to make real progress toward my goals, it seems, is to obsess.

Again, i appreciate the help.

Well you WILL get a ton of differing posts on this but this is just MY advice. I would increase the protein intake to 1 lb of pro per lb of body weight. I am currently down to 220 and thus take 220 grams a day of protein. I combine real food and shakes to reach that goal.

If you are going to run a marathon, then continue as you are with everything but I would still increase the protein intake.

If you are wanting to gain some LMM or bulk, then running a low dose of test e at 250 and maybe EQ at 400 a week for 14 weeks would get you where you would want to be I would Imagine. I would change that workout routine to concentrate on more compound excercises such as squats, deads, bench, etc and with increased caloric intake, upped protein and plenty of rest, I can't see you not gaining 18+/- lbs of LMM. Test and EQ tend to offer more keepable gains if diet and routine are in check. If you do this type of workout, go heavy or go home.

While gaining muscle and losing fat at the same time is doable, I think you really need to decide where you want to obsess to use your word.

If you want to gain some LMM, you will gain a little fat, thats just part of it I feel. Maybe run the marathon first and then revisit the bulking idea? If you are wanting to put on muscle, that caloric intake needs to be higher. As it is said, the most anabolic substance on earth is food.