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2 new drugs are out, one is legal in russia that are supposed to be much better than epo? any info on these yet?
better than epo
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JUICESEEKER
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Are you interested in using epo?
monkeyballs
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????
perfectspecimen
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yes, or a safer alternative
S
Stryker1992
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I would appreciate any info on this as well
Aranesp/EPO
If you're talking about aranesp, it's the same than epo : aranesp is a slow release epo . You have to inject it only once a week (3-4 times with regular epo).
Aranesp is not better or more efficient at all than epo. It's only easier to use, and the good thing is that prices seems to be lower...
But if anyone has some more infos about it, I'de appreciate also to know more.
If you're talking about aranesp, it's the same than epo : aranesp is a slow release epo . You have to inject it only once a week (3-4 times with regular epo).
Aranesp is not better or more efficient at all than epo. It's only easier to use, and the good thing is that prices seems to be lower...
But if anyone has some more infos about it, I'de appreciate also to know more.
monkeyballs
New member
Re: Re: Aranesp/EPO
This isn't true. George made a post recently over on harcore about the introduction of Aranesp and how it is undetectavle by all current testing methods. EPO is very detectable if you have used it within a week of testing. This is actually a moot point because endurance athletes are tested for hemocrit readings rather than for the metabolites of any specific drug. All forms of EPO will elevate hemocrit levels beyond the normal levels that are acceptable for a negative test. It's very similar to the T/E ratio tests that detect if an athlete is on AS. The test finds the results of the drug, rather than the traces of the drug itself. A hemocrit reading over 60 is grounds for a positive test...and all the other shit that follows.
fhg43 said:
This isn't true. George made a post recently over on harcore about the introduction of Aranesp and how it is undetectavle by all current testing methods. EPO is very detectable if you have used it within a week of testing. This is actually a moot point because endurance athletes are tested for hemocrit readings rather than for the metabolites of any specific drug. All forms of EPO will elevate hemocrit levels beyond the normal levels that are acceptable for a negative test. It's very similar to the T/E ratio tests that detect if an athlete is on AS. The test finds the results of the drug, rather than the traces of the drug itself. A hemocrit reading over 60 is grounds for a positive test...and all the other shit that follows.
fhg43
New member
Re: Re: Re: Aranesp/EPO
Wrong.
Aranesp is completely dectable.
It is not a recombinant of a natural product like the orginal epotein alfa-it is almost 100% synthetic; it is a derivative of a synthetically recombinated hormone. Plus Amgen has said they helped the IOC with testing procedures for it. There are markers that they can look for. Athletes at the 2002 Winter Olympics were popped for Aranesp. Their hematocrit and hemoglobin levels were abnormal, but due to some loophole they were allowed to race (XC skiing). Later their urine and/or blood samples came back with traces of the marker for Aranesp. Pro cyclists-my friends-know that Aranesp can be detected so they avoid it. Pro cyclist still use EPO because it IS STILL MORE OR LESS UNDECTECTABLE. The test for EPO (in cycling at least) is 2 part. One they check your hematocrit levels if they are above 50% you get a suspension from racing for "health reasons"-they say your blood is dangerously thick. Certain bike racers have a certificate which says their natural hematocrit levels are high so they have a level of 53% they can test under. They usually do urine test too. If the urine test comes back positive for EPO than you get a positive result. The test was designed by the French so it sucks (sorry realblaz). They say it will detect EPO within 3 days of administration, but many pros believe it to be more like a week like you said. The test isn't very reliable as very few riders have been caught with it. Some that were caught were able to have their results overturned because they proved the test itself was not very reliable. Depending on the sport endurance athletes are tested for all manner of drug metabolites. My banned list is very long and I am possibly subject to urine tests-and I am just an amateur!
I'm not trying to flame-I am just very very informed on this topic. I know George knows his stuff but I think I have the scoop on this one. My sources are very solid on all this.
FHG
monkeyballs said:
Wrong.
Aranesp is completely dectable.
It is not a recombinant of a natural product like the orginal epotein alfa-it is almost 100% synthetic; it is a derivative of a synthetically recombinated hormone. Plus Amgen has said they helped the IOC with testing procedures for it. There are markers that they can look for. Athletes at the 2002 Winter Olympics were popped for Aranesp. Their hematocrit and hemoglobin levels were abnormal, but due to some loophole they were allowed to race (XC skiing). Later their urine and/or blood samples came back with traces of the marker for Aranesp. Pro cyclists-my friends-know that Aranesp can be detected so they avoid it. Pro cyclist still use EPO because it IS STILL MORE OR LESS UNDECTECTABLE. The test for EPO (in cycling at least) is 2 part. One they check your hematocrit levels if they are above 50% you get a suspension from racing for "health reasons"-they say your blood is dangerously thick. Certain bike racers have a certificate which says their natural hematocrit levels are high so they have a level of 53% they can test under. They usually do urine test too. If the urine test comes back positive for EPO than you get a positive result. The test was designed by the French so it sucks (sorry realblaz). They say it will detect EPO within 3 days of administration, but many pros believe it to be more like a week like you said. The test isn't very reliable as very few riders have been caught with it. Some that were caught were able to have their results overturned because they proved the test itself was not very reliable. Depending on the sport endurance athletes are tested for all manner of drug metabolites. My banned list is very long and I am possibly subject to urine tests-and I am just an amateur!
I'm not trying to flame-I am just very very informed on this topic. I know George knows his stuff but I think I have the scoop on this one. My sources are very solid on all this.
FHG
monkeyballs
New member
Re: Re: Re: Re: Aranesp/EPO
Once again...not a flame...just a discussion. I'm tested all the time as well, so I greet the opurtunity to discuss this with someone who is also tested.
I know for a fact that 2002 winter athletes were not tested for Aranesp, althought it did appear on the IOC list of banned substances. Another form of EPO, Darbepoetin was found in Johan Mueglegg and a few other cross county skiers. These Skiiers passed the pre-race hemocrit, but tested positive for the metabloites. Darbepoetin was previoulsy thought to be undetectable and was not even on the list of banned substances. Aranesp was found in the house of the Austrian Cross-country skiiers as well as blood doping gear. Both are prohibited, and provided that the athletes are under 60 on the hemocrit, neither can be tested for. Not one Austrian athlete tested postive. Perhaps the IOC standard, and the test used for cyclists are not the same. For example, and athlete will reicieve no suspension or any punishement at all, provided that his hemocrit is under 60%. Cycling, as you have said, has a different protocal. Perhaps Aranesp is tested for by the cycling authorities, as cycling has been dealing with EPO and similar drugs for much longer than the IOC. But as of the 2002 olympics, no legally approved test existed for Aranesp. This will most likely change by Athens.
I disagree.fhg43 said:
Once again...not a flame...just a discussion. I'm tested all the time as well, so I greet the opurtunity to discuss this with someone who is also tested.
I know for a fact that 2002 winter athletes were not tested for Aranesp, althought it did appear on the IOC list of banned substances. Another form of EPO, Darbepoetin was found in Johan Mueglegg and a few other cross county skiers. These Skiiers passed the pre-race hemocrit, but tested positive for the metabloites. Darbepoetin was previoulsy thought to be undetectable and was not even on the list of banned substances. Aranesp was found in the house of the Austrian Cross-country skiiers as well as blood doping gear. Both are prohibited, and provided that the athletes are under 60 on the hemocrit, neither can be tested for. Not one Austrian athlete tested postive. Perhaps the IOC standard, and the test used for cyclists are not the same. For example, and athlete will reicieve no suspension or any punishement at all, provided that his hemocrit is under 60%. Cycling, as you have said, has a different protocal. Perhaps Aranesp is tested for by the cycling authorities, as cycling has been dealing with EPO and similar drugs for much longer than the IOC. But as of the 2002 olympics, no legally approved test existed for Aranesp. This will most likely change by Athens.
fhg43
New member
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Aranesp/EPO
I see where we are miscommunicating.
Aranesp is darbotein alfa. Amgen makes Aranesp which is their brand name for darbotein alfa like Procrit is their name for epotein alfa. Check it out:
http://www.aranesp.com/
Very interesting about the skiiers though. I followed that scandal as well. I think running is still indenial about doping in their sport. Running is so pure...who would dope?...Those dudes were foaming when EPO was introduced. I'm sure those Kenyans are doing it-It's either win marathons or go back to water buffalo hunting...Alright that was mean.
In cycling you can get popped by testing positive or by just having a banned drug in your posession or admitting to taking a banned substance. Harsh sport in that repsect.
What sport do you do?
FHG
P.S. I forgot darbotein alfa/Aranesp didn't show up on any banned list at the Winter Olympics but was covered under the blanket statement "other related doping products".
monkeyballs said:
I see where we are miscommunicating.
Aranesp is darbotein alfa. Amgen makes Aranesp which is their brand name for darbotein alfa like Procrit is their name for epotein alfa. Check it out:
http://www.aranesp.com/
Very interesting about the skiiers though. I followed that scandal as well. I think running is still indenial about doping in their sport. Running is so pure...who would dope?...Those dudes were foaming when EPO was introduced. I'm sure those Kenyans are doing it-It's either win marathons or go back to water buffalo hunting...Alright that was mean.
In cycling you can get popped by testing positive or by just having a banned drug in your posession or admitting to taking a banned substance. Harsh sport in that repsect.
What sport do you do?
FHG
P.S. I forgot darbotein alfa/Aranesp didn't show up on any banned list at the Winter Olympics but was covered under the blanket statement "other related doping products".
Last edited:
monkeyballs
New member
Solid info...
Shoot me an E-mail.
So Aranesp is Darbepoetin- okay, now it all comes together. The skiiers nabbed were hit under the "prohibited methods" clause which basically says that anything that does the same thing as EPO is banned. I agree with you on the issue of endurance runners, marathon records are broken every year and I'm sure EPO is as common amongst runners as it is with cyclists. With cyclists, you either win or go back to delivering the mail, and with runners, it's win or starve.
Shoot me an E-mail.
So Aranesp is Darbepoetin- okay, now it all comes together. The skiiers nabbed were hit under the "prohibited methods" clause which basically says that anything that does the same thing as EPO is banned. I agree with you on the issue of endurance runners, marathon records are broken every year and I'm sure EPO is as common amongst runners as it is with cyclists. With cyclists, you either win or go back to delivering the mail, and with runners, it's win or starve.
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