at what point does one consider as?

[smallmovesal]

i have thought about it because of the fact that i'm a hardgainer.. the only thing that stops me is i have no idea if i was hitting a peak.. plus i haven't been training consistently while going to school.

once summer hits i will be but i just wondered if it's still too soon...

 

[Sassy69]

Depends on your goals. I also believe that you can't begin to think you've tapped into your potential until you've been seriously lifting & dieting for at least a few years. How else do u know if you've reached your potential? AS is just somethign to push u beyond that. Otherwise are the sides really worth it? If you don't already train like a mutherfucker and follow an honest & consistently clean diet, the AS may actually backfire on u and u could gain bf as well.

 

[MS]

Wow, when to take AAS is a very loaded question. The short anwser is "never" unless you plan on becoming a pro and making your living off bodybuilding. The long answer involves issues of body image and self respect that no one but you can answer. At 20 years of age, I was a weed (I would have made a great ramp model). At 43 years of age I have more muscle than I want!!. AAS would have undoubtedly got me this muscle much faster, and also given me more muscle. But then what???? More AAS? More extreme dieting?? Where do you go from there and what are your goals? At the best, AAS will help you gain muscle more quickly, and gain it past your genetic potential. But you may not know your full genetic potential until you're dead. At worst, AAS comes with a host of side effects, some of which you will never be free of. My advice is to be absolutely clear of your goals, and what you're willing to sacrifice (short and long term) to achieve them. Then you'll know if your 'need' AAS or not.

 

[ann]

MS and Sassy hit that one pretty good. Really think about it ; some sides arent too grand.... and can be permanent. (sp?)

Cute baby in the avatar.....who's is it?? I know it isnt yours girl

 

[Sassy69]

I think that's the bottom line that MS hit on -- esp w/ all the gains we see on this board & the sort of "comradery" we have talking about how cycles are going, etc. it is really tempting to dive in. But at the end of the cycle, what is next? More? Do you get hooked? Do you become dependent on it? Do you ever really achieve your goal? Did you ever have the right goal in mind? Ten years from now will you be a better person for having done it? These are some of the more relevant questions to be asking when you put stuff into your body.

The body is a very resiliant thing and can be molded and sculpted a little at a time with good diet & training. "Gains" are relative -- I spent 15 years lifting -- last year I developed a "peak" in my biceps! Pretty cool to show off every now and then, but its not gonna impact my life that much. If I gain & lose a bunch of weight fast it may have negative impacts on my life even if I fit in my really sexy black leather pants at the moment. Ultimately you want to go for what is best for your life.

... ok I think I sound like I'm climbing on a soap box, so I'll step down, but I really liked what MS said. Even the most stubborn body will respond to stimulus so dont' sell yourself short until you know you have really given it everything you have. There are no quick fixes and the best results are those gained from patience & consistency.

 

[sysopt]

you lookin good in that avatar

 

[AziaReign]

Smalls - We're both about the same body type, kinda (you're taller and thinner) but seriously. Don't consider AS until you have reached a deadpoint, unless it is ABSOLUTELY necessary, to where you know you're body can't do it on its own. It crossed mine and Pauly's mind for a second, but I work out for a week, and you can see results on me. I know if you work on it much harder, you can do it all by yourself w/out AS help. You need to push yourself further than you already are. Thats just my 2 cents!

 

[VooDoo Lady]

Well, I'm in a pissy mood so I'll tell you exactly why I take AS.

My dumbass, (well-meaning?) husband in desperate attempts to make me happy with my body gave me several cycles of various harsh crap that a woman shouldn't be taking (i.e. halo, primo) and I have some permanent sides as a result (facial hair, enlarged clit, lowered voice).

Ladies, I didn't care enough to do research myself so I blindly took whatever he gave me, without question. My diet SUCKED, I had NO understanding of how to properly lift, I was a cardio queen, everything that is a no-no, I did, out of ignorance.

SO - now that my dedication to proper diet and exercise is 100% in check, I figure...why not?? Why not supplement my efforts? I already have the permanent sides. I'm educated about it now and I make the decisions for myself after exhaustive research, not my husband.

So, I cringe when guys get on here saying they want to give AS to their girlfriends/wives. And good for you folks for telling them to get their girls on here to make educated decisions FOR THEMSELVES about what they are putting in their bodies.

Am I bitter at my husband? No, he thought he was helping me, and for the record he likes me heavier, he has NEVER told me to lose weight, even at 170lbs (in fact he has recently asked me to gain some!!) But he just wanted me to be happy with myself.

VDL (I have my period, can you tell?)

 

[wyst]

VDL:

You guys must have a solid marriage to get through that.

My answer on when to try AS is when I just can't wait any longer. I know I'm going to do it eventually, but I'm not there yet. Lately in been more and more on my mind, though.

Wyst

 

[Sassy69]

Awwwwww VDL --

I hear ya girl -- that's how I actually found this site -- motivated by the fact that I couldn't get clear info from the guy who was telling me how good it would be for me to lose weight. OMG.

So we will continue to preach the value of KNOWLEDGE and PLLLLEEEEAAAASSSEEE let's not flame the guys who come to this board asking about what to give their girls to "lose weight and tone". Thank GOD they had the sense to at least ASK! If they hadn't, there'd be one more miserable lady. Sometimes you think you are doing everything you can to find info on the stuff but you don't find the right info until after the fact. Well... better late than never.

So ... more reason to ask questions, get educated, consider both your goals & the consequences. And always remember that there are SOOOOOO many other ways to get excellent results -- you just have to be patient, dedicated & consistent! And frankly you have to do that anyway if you do decide to go the AS route, so why not get the habits established before dropping the cash and beginning the monitoring for sides????

 

[Sassy69]

Another good point by Spats -- whenever u discuss something remotely controversial there is HYUUUGE speculation, emotion, everything, and often, very little fact. No one seemed to question phen-fen as a weight loss method until people started having problems -- then its all over the place DON"T DO IT / IT'LL KILL YA! Interestingly that has NOT happened in the area of cigarette use. You'd think a class action suit on the order of billions (?)(speaking of uninformed... <points to self>) and the commercials with stacks of body bags representing the number of people who have died from cigarette smoke would deter people. But it doesn't. Then we all go thru this personal turmoil about use of AS.
I would be very interested to see the stats on problems related to use / abuse of thermogenics....

 

[KBgrl]

[It humors me that some people will bash AS use while they're popping their thermogenics; risk is relative. [/B]

or smoking their cigs, weed...sniffin coke ...drinking their booze..... poppin x 3 days a week.... etc.... PLEASE!!!

EXECLLENT POINT SPATTS!


smalls ur so cute!!! i know the past few posts of read from u said that ur diet suxed... lol... i would say get that straight..... i know its hard with school and all but u can do it grl!! keep us updated!

 

[smallmovesal]

thanks guys. i'm really going to keep the protein and workouts going for my sanity if not my muscles next semester.

and ann, it's my friend's baby - boy number two. super cute kids too.

 

[MS]

All good points. I hope we all appreciate that just because something is "legal" or "socially acceptable" does not mean that it's good for us. Likewise something that is "illegal" or "socially unacceptable" is not necessarily bad for us (unless we get caught or believe in karma or divine reward and punishment).

I personally believe we should all question what we put in our bodies. It doesn't matter if its ECA, AAS, sweet potato, nicotine, cigs, cocaine, ice cream, or a social drink out with our friends and family. We are not like our prehistoric/paleolithic ancestors to whom ALL food was good, and anything else that made them feel good was also good! We live in a culture of extreme excesses, available 24/7, and this includes AAS (which have only been available for a short time historically speaking). Obesity/gluttony, drug addiction (this includes ECA/nicotine/AAS/ECA etc...), and sexual extremes are all natural and easy for humans to fall into in our modern societies. In some respects the uneducated use of AAS is like a flagship for many of these extremes. I'm not referring so much to this board, but if you visit the anabolic boards on the net you will find a large proportion of males that want to or are using AAS for a thrill (because it's very illegal in some countries), for a sexual boost in libido/performance, because it allows them to eat more without getting fat, because they percieve that the extra muscle will get them some booty, or because they find they can drink and party more without looking too bad (if you haven't read "The Picture Of Dorain Gray....) or just sheer ignorance/peer pressure. Some of them even have illusions of becoming pro bodybuilders, or just kicking someone else's ass in a street fight or boxing ring, or just looking plain old intimidating. So much for male psychology!

Females, I'm still not sure what drives women to AAS use. For sure there is a minority who will actually improve their carreers and competitive chances. For the rest it appears to me to be for reasons similar to male usage, ie increased sexual attractiveness/playing with illegal and therefore potentially dangerous substances/increase in sex drive/feelings of empowerment/because everyone else is doing it/a desire to binge/gorge without too much fat gain/to be intimidating (often important for sexually traumatized or rape victims) or for other genetic and environmental reasons we don't yet fathom. In some ways I perceive female breast enhancement in a similar psychological light to AAS use, though obviously they are not the same thing!

That all sounded pretty harsh, and I have to admit another real and becomingly more and more important use of AAS.....the treatment of wasting diseases and serious burns/traumas.

So again, I ask only that you gals think deeply about why you are considering AAS use, and also do your research. If you decide it's right for you, (similar to having breast implants, liposuction or a face-lift) I hope you check out lots of options, get lots of input and make the best choice based on the info available at the time.

 

[Hannibal]

i have thought about it because of the fact that i'm a hardgainer..

DAMN I hate the term "hardgainer"...ranks right up there with "overtraining"...as I dont believe in either one. At least not the extent that other do, but that is another thread....

Smalls...from what I have read of yours post. You need to get your diet in order, and get consistancy with your training. I am curious to know what the longest period of time is that you have gone without missing a workout? I would venture to guess that it is not that long. I doubt if you have come anywhere near your natural potential. So get in the gym on a cosistant basis....clean up your diet. And most importantly LEARN about the substances that you are thinkin of putting in your body....BEFORE you decide to try them.

Me personally I researched it for almost 4 years before I took the plunge. I also waited till I was 24, which is when testosterone production in males first start to decline. I can only speak for myself. I am a comptetive powerlifter...and I choose to lift in untested events. I also use for asthetic reasons...though to a lessor degree. Just to feel better about myself. To feel comfortable in my skin so to speak.

Could I have made the same gains in strength and muscle mass without using gear. Yes absolutely. The only problem is that it woud have taken me 20years. "On a long enough timeline the survival rate of everyone drops to zero."

BOTTOM LINE: I do it because Life is Short...do what makes you happy...it will be over soon. In my opinion, which is only valid for me, my AAS use allows me to enjoy a higher quality of life....without compromising the quantity of my life....as long as I make intelligent decisions regarding my useage.

 

[wilson6]

"Females, I'm still not sure what drives women to AAS use. "

They want to look like pumpgirl and it ain't gonna happen any other way.

W6

 

[NubianBeauty]

Yeah that was pretty funny...

 

[luv2workout]

"Females, I'm still not sure what drives women to AAS use. "

They want to look like pumpgirl and it ain't gonna happen any other way.

W6

hahaha! You got that one right, W6

 

[MS]

LOL W6. What gals need to realize is that they're prolly not gonna look like pumpgirl WITH AAS either. We went through this a long time ago when FitnessChick was a regular contributor to these boards. She had great genetics, nice proportions, good muscle insertions, calves and everything else that makes a good looking fitness chick before she ever started using AAS. After AAS and a boob job, she looked even more awesome. But she would have turned heads without the AAS use by merely training hard and paying attention to diet. AAS helped get her to the USA Nationals though....AAS will not turn a frog into a princess, it will only make a bigger, possibly leaner and more masculine, frog.

 

[Hannibal]

AAS will not turn a frog into a princess, it will only make a bigger, possibly leaner and more masculine, frog.

The same can be said on the men's side. AAS will never make me a prince...but I dont use genetics as an excuse. I just try to be the biggest, strongest, fastest frog I can be.

...and if women mistake me for a prince and give me a little kiss...is it really my fault

 

[wilson6]

I agree MS, but I don't think pumpgirl (or anyone else) would look as sharp without OX; not to say she still wouldn't draw the attention of many without OX, but if you put a natural female with a fitness look next to the OX assisted, there would be a very clear difference and I'd bet most everyone would agree that the one on a low dose of OX looks better than the one without.

None-the-less, AAS should only be a consideration if everything else has been optimized and only if one knows about and can control what their getting into and can live with any negative aspects of their decision. If not, then don't do it.

W6

 

[MS]

I admit I am at a disadvantage when it comes to commenting on Pumpgirl specifically. I have never seen images of her (and am unlikely to without buying into Elite Fitness Platinum Memebership). However it is hard for me to imagine a fitness/figure look that is not achieveable without AAS (assuming good genetics, training etc...). It's not like figure chicks require superphysiological levels of muscularity or leannesss. This would put the majority of blue-blooded American males off instantly, and we all know that doesn't sell well.

Well I am just talking through that hole in my mouth until I see before and after images of pumpgirl, as well as finding out what her age, experience, training and diet were like.

 

[wilson6]

The "after" are on their way. Check your email.

W6

 

[MrMuscle]

I'm one of those guys that will preach about not using AS to anybody who asks me. not because i lack respect for those who use it. But because i want to test the individual, if he/she backs off easily when i start confrontin him/her. then i know that using AS is not the answere for that person. but, if the person can explain to me why he/she wants to start a cycle, explain her/his training and diet, and show the results, or lack thereof, and is not ashamed to tell people that she/he is planning a cycle. then maybe he/she is ready.

the stupidest thing i see is people who have or are on cycles, and people know this. but when confronted with it they deny it. again and again. if you want to start AS you HAVE to stand up for what you have done. not hide in shame..

oh and btw..im a natty..i swear

 

[luvs2workout]

Ann - Smalls, clearly asks board member their opinions on if she should/shouldnt....I read over - not one person encouraged her or thought she was ready...they all offered very helpful info...some took the time to type out long explanations of what she should do and why not to rush into it...did it matter?? evidently NOT....

this is why I responded as I did on her thread...or rather why I seemed as she put it "RUDE"

 

[ann]

Ann - Smalls, clearly asks board member their opinions on if she should/shouldnt....I read over - not one person encouraged her or thought she was ready...they all offered very helpful info...some took the time to type out long explanations of what she should do and why not to rush into it...did it matter?? evidently NOT....

this is why I responded as I did on her thread...or rather why I seemed as she put it "RUDE"

I understand all of that......and understood perfectly well your post. All I am saying, is, its her body, her move, and I will support her in whatever she does. She's taken the plunge, against some good advice, but I wont beat her up about it. HER CHOICE..... I will just encourage her and hope she gets some awesome results.

 

[NubianBeauty]

Well, I did not think you two were "rude"... just trying to get an understanding as to "why" she chose to do this, especially after this thread. Just wait until new@ gets here