Aromasin -- Suppressive?

[bbball3350]

I understand Aromasin isnt a steroid, supresses estrogen levels and is a mild but irreversable AI.
1.But does it supress natural test production?
2.Is its only 'steroidal' characteristic is that it binds to a different Estrogen receptor?

I ask these dumb questions because i've started taking Aromasin and its like im taking proviron.

Clarifications please .

 

[nydj66]

Aromasin will not be suppressive to natty test production at all.

In fact, by preventing testosterone from converting to estrogen, it will increase the amount of free testosterone in your bloodstream which is probably why you're seeing proviron-like side effects.

 

[Mr.X]

1.But does it supress natural test production?
no it does not
2.Is its only 'steroidal' characteristic is that it binds to a different Estrogen receptor?
it's an aromatase inhibitor like Arimidex, not an estrogen agonist/antagonist (SERM), I think you might be confusing the 2. It doesn't bind to the receptors - see info below

In fact, I think you're somehow confusing proviron with aromasin, correct?


Information:
Arimidex - Anastrozole
Aromasin - exemestane
NOLVADEX - tamoxifen citrate
PROVIRON - mesterlone

 

[Ulter]

It gets a little confusing if you're not familiar with the way Aromatese Inhibitors work.
There is only one estrogen receptor so they all want to do the same thing. Limit the estrogen that binds to that receptor. Nolvadex, not an AI, does it by binding to it itself and blocking off the estrogen from being able to affect you.
Then comes the AI's which work one of two ways. They either inhibit the aromatese enzymes from converting the test in your blood to estrogen OR they kill the aromatese off (called suicidal) so that they aren't there to convert the test to estrogen.
So your reference to irreversible pertains to the later, a suicidal aromatese inhibitor.
Arimidex is one that only inhibits the aromatese from converting test to estrogen. It was one of the first introduced. It works much better in women than in men. In men it's only preventing a little over half of the conversion. And that’s at 1mg/day.
Aromasin is suicidal and kills off the aromatese enzyme so it's much more powerful and does a better job in men and women.

The AIFM from the AF Store is suicidal and is much stronger than Arimidex for that reason. If you have REAL aromasin pills then you are taking the best AI there is. And with proviron you should do very well.
AI's are used to increase natural test levels. They do this by lowering estrogen. HUH? Yes by lowering estrogen you raise test in your body. That's because your body doesn't measure the amount of test you have to determine if it should make more. The HPTA (system controlling your test) "knows" that test is converted to estrogen by the aromatese. So when the HPTA reads low estrogen it signals the testes to start producing more test. So when you use AIFM or similar AI you lower your estrogen levels, this triggers the HPTA to read "we need more test down there" and your test levels then go up as the testes start pumping it out. The AI will continue to limit the conversion and the HPTA will continue to read low estrogen and keep your natural test levels at the high side or normal.

 

[bbball3350]

Great.
I've understood all of the pharmacokinetics of Aromasin for a while. Its just that i dont see why Aromasin isnt talked about so much more. And why is it not the standard nowadays?

Thanks for the clearing up too!

 

[Mr.X]

Great.
I've understood all of the pharmacokinetics of Aromasin for a while. Its just that i dont see why Aromasin isnt talked about so much more. And why is it not the standard nowadays?

Thanks for the clearing up too!

Aromasin is just not well known, that's why it's not widely talked about. In reality, I don't see it ever becoming too popular within the next 1-3 years. Although I've used aromasin, I still prefer arimidex.

This is a good write-up on aromasin:
http://www.meso-rx.com/steroid-profiles/aromasin.htm

here is an article talking about Aromasin and PCT:
Rationale for the Use of Aromasin with Tamoxifen During Post Cycle Therapy

 

[macrophage69alpha]

While there is some interesting points in those articles there are also several erroneous conclusions, mostly because the author fails to recognize that RIA methodology of measuring oestrogen suppression is innacurate.

use of this study in particular
Zilembo N., Noberasco C., Bajetta E., Martinetti A., Mariani L., Orefici S. Endocrinological and clinical evaluation of exemestane, a new steroidal aromatase inhibitor. Br. J. Cancer, 72: 1007-1012, 1995

More recent studies show that aromasin and other steroidal(aka suicidal) AI's (like AIFM) are as or more potent than competitive inhibitors like anastrozole and letrozole.

Letrozole typically causes libido problems because of the fact that it is extremely suppressive of brain aromatase activity. Likely due to higher permeability/affinity in these tissues (though this has not been explored clinically at this time).

 

[drrman]

While there is some interesting points in those articles there are also several erroneous conclusions, mostly because the author fails to recognize that RIA methodology of measuring oestrogen suppression is innacurate.

use of this study in particular
Zilembo N., Noberasco C., Bajetta E., Martinetti A., Mariani L., Orefici S. Endocrinological and clinical evaluation of exemestane, a new steroidal aromatase inhibitor. Br. J. Cancer, 72: 1007-1012, 1995

More recent studies show that aromasin and other steroidal(aka suicidal) AI's (like AIFM) are as or more potent than competitive inhibitors like anastrozole and letrozole.

Letrozole typically causes libido problems because of the fact that it is extremely suppressive of brain aromatase activity. Likely due to higher permeability/affinity in these tissues (though this has not been explored clinically at this time).

I can speak from experience and tell you that letrozole will lower your libidio, i was taking 1250mg test per week and 2.5mg letrozole per day during one cycle, and could NOT get a hard on!!

 

[macrophage69alpha]

I can speak from experience and tell you that letrozole will lower your libidio, i was taking 1250mg test per week and 2.5mg letrozole per day during one cycle, and could NOT get a hard on!!

were there "desire" issues, or just performance ones?

 

[OMEGA]

It gets a little confusing if you're not familiar with the way Aromatese Inhibitors work.
There is only one estrogen receptor so they all want to do the same thing. Limit the estrogen that binds to that receptor. Nolvadex, not an AI, does it by binding to it itself and blocking off the estrogen from being able to affect you.
Then comes the AI's which work one of two ways. They either inhibit the aromatese enzymes from converting the test in your blood to estrogen OR they kill the aromatese off (called suicidal) so that they aren't there to convert the test to estrogen.
So your reference to irreversible pertains to the later, a suicidal aromatese inhibitor.
Arimidex is one that only inhibits the aromatese from converting test to estrogen. It was one of the first introduced. It works much better in women than in men. In men it's only preventing a little over half of the conversion. And that’s at 1mg/day.
Aromasin is suicidal and kills off the aromatese enzyme so it's much more powerful and does a better job in men and women.

The AIFM from the AF Store is suicidal and is much stronger than Arimidex for that reason. If you have REAL aromasin pills then you are taking the best AI there is. And with proviron you should do very well.
AI's are used to increase natural test levels. They do this by lowering estrogen. HUH? Yes by lowering estrogen you raise test in your body. That's because your body doesn't measure the amount of test you have to determine if it should make more. The HPTA (system controlling your test) "knows" that test is converted to estrogen by the aromatese. So when the HPTA reads low estrogen it signals the testes to start producing more test. So when you use AIFM or similar AI you lower your estrogen levels, this triggers the HPTA to read "we need more test down there" and your test levels then go up as the testes start pumping it out. The AI will continue to limit the conversion and the HPTA will continue to read low estrogen and keep your natural test levels at the high side or normal.

excellent post

 

[blut wump]

Does the body at any stage try to increase the amount of aromatase it creates besides increasing the amount of testosterone when taking an aromatase inhibitor?

I recall reading somewhere about a possible 'rebound effect' from suicide inhibitors. I remember being unconvinced by the argument but an increase in aromatase production, if it happens, could leave you with an oestrogen rebound on discontinuing the inhibitor. Do you have any info on this?

 

[Ulter]

When you discontinue use it doesn't stop working. In a way it's self tapering because it takes a week to eliminate. So the aromatese would gradually build back up and not "rebound" suddenly as you're describing.

 

[racoon_city]

aromasin the the best hands down

 

[drrman]

were there "desire" issues, or just performance ones?

It seemed to be a little bit of both, but mainly just in getting it up if i remember correctly, i think the desire was lower than it should have been to have been on that much test, but then again it could have been mental and just making me have less desire because i knew it wouldn't get very hard, if i remember correctly it would sometimes get half erect, but never realy good and hard...

I do remember though that i PM'd you macro with the problem and let you know what all i was taking and you were the one that told me to drop the letrozole and sure enough that fixed it, and that was back in summer 2002!....LOL, you know your stuff my friend!!

 

[macrophage69alpha]

It seemed to be a little bit of both, but mainly just in getting it up if i remember correctly, i think the desire was lower than it should have been to have been on that much test, but then again it could have been mental and just making me have less desire because i knew it wouldn't get very hard, if i remember correctly it would sometimes get half erect, but never realy good and hard...

I do remember though that i PM'd you macro with the problem and let you know what all i was taking and you were the one that told me to drop the letrozole and sure enough that fixed it, and that was back in summer 2002!....LOL, you know your stuff my friend!!

 

[macrophage69alpha]

aromasin the the best hands down

agree that suicidal inhibitors like aromasin and AIFM are generally superior, particularly in men.

 

[HSV]

Hey guys , sorry if this seems like a stupid question but l am new and trying to learn.Im takeing novaldex thruout my present (and first real) cycle.But would it be a safer option to use Aromasin thruout? I have both.Its my understanding that an AI is genarally used when a problem arrises?

Great info there above to by the way.
HSV

 

[racoon_city]

bro i would start aromasin or AIFM as soon as i start cycle. its good stuff

 

[djsf]

I agree - armoasin or arimidex is superior to nolvadex for eliminating bloat. Basically, if you can prevent the expensive test you are taking from converting to estrogen, that's more test for you, and less test wasted. If you just rely on nolva, then you are letting a percentage of your test convert, thus wasting it, then blocking the resulting estrogen. I would cut out the middle man and just use an AI. Nolva does have its purposes, namely as the last line of defense against gyno, and in a good PCT to help raise test levels.

 

[macrophage69alpha]

another issue with using nolva is that it does somewhat suppress IGF-1 (though this is also part of the reason that its effective in suppressing gynecomastia)

 

[macrophage69alpha]

bro i would start aromasin or AIFM as soon as i start cycle. its good stuff

agree