ARIEL SHARON...Kills his own people

[SUST-MAN]

Lets draw a comparison....

If you can say that Saddam Hussein killed "HIS OWN PEOPLE"..
refering to the KURDS in northern iraq....who are AGAINST his regiem....and want to create a KURDISTAN.....

cant you also say....that ARIEL SHARON kills his "OWN" people?

Ariel sharon kills palestinians in israel because they are against his government and want a land of their own?

Can you say....DOUBLE STANDARD?

 

[thebabydoc]

I have got to be the dumbest motherfucker on this board.

 

[spongebob]

Lets draw a comparison....

If you can say that Saddam Hussein killed "HIS OWN PEOPLE"..
refering to the KURDS in northern iraq....who are AGAINST his regiem....and want to create a KURDISTAN.....

cant you also say....that ARIEL SHARON kills his "OWN" people?

Ariel sharon kills palestinians in israel because they are against his government and want a land of their own?

Can you say....DOUBLE STANDARD?

if someone was against my regiem i'd kill them too.

 

[Manu]

Can you say....DOUBLE STANDARD?

Yes.

 

[SSAlexSS]

Lets draw a comparison....

If you can say that Saddam Hussein killed "HIS OWN PEOPLE"..
refering to the KURDS in northern iraq....who are AGAINST his regiem....and want to create a KURDISTAN.....

cant you also say....that ARIEL SHARON kills his "OWN" people?

Ariel sharon kills palestinians in israel because they are against his government and want a land of their own?

Can you say....DOUBLE STANDARD?

Yes. Jewish and Americans are always right. The aey-rabs are always wrong.

 

[SSAlexSS]

I've been watching your inane, moronic, uninformed, and generally completely uneducated posts on these topics for who knows how long and heretofore restraining myself because you sound about 15 IQ points short of a peanut butter-and-jelly sandwich
(or, alternatively, about 2 IQ points above 2Thick).

Finally, a post worth a response from me....

b]Fuck you.



Imbecile. [/B]

Well your reply is even worse than the original posters text. While you may not agree with it, answer it without spilling out verbal equivalent of diahrea. That aint that hard, right?

Oh wait , anyone with the IQ above room temperature does NOT end his posts with the kind of talk you hear plumbers and janitors say. I guess that is where you spend most of your time.

 

[Jimsbbc]

First of all there is no such thing as a "Palestinian" or a Palestine in the first place. The Romans only named the area Palestine to add insult to injury after driving out the Jews and naming Israel after their enemies. That was in 70 ad, before then there had been no such thing as Palestine or a Palestinian arab. These "Palestinian" people are just arabs from Egypt, Syria, Lebanon, and Jordan. They are not, have never been, and will never be a seperate race of Arabs. They are simply Arabs from surrounding areas that infiltrated Israel when the Romans drove the Jews out. Now The Jews have control again and took back what is rightfully theirs - the Promised Land. There will never be a Palestinian State because the institution of such will insure the annihilation of the Jews. The arabs in Israel know they can't win the land with military might, so they must do it in pieces using diplomacy. Then at the right time, they get the other arab nations to join in and finish off the Jews. This is Yasser Arafat's game plan he has publicly stated. They will never be happy with any land for peace bribe, they will only want more. It is better for them to relocate to Jordan which is the new Palestine anyway. Muslims don't have any claim to Jerusalem in their religion. It is not in the Koran and Mohammed never spoke of it or visited it. It is just a game plan to try to discredit and erase Christianity. It says in the Bible that the descendants of Ishmael are the wild ass among men, that his hand will be against all men - and the hand of all men will be against him.

 

[atlantabiolab]

First of all there is no such thing as a "Palestinian" or a Palestine in the first place. The Romans only named the area Palestine to add insult to injury after driving out the Jews and naming Israel after their enemies. That was in 70 ad, before then there had been no such thing as Palestine or a Palestinian arab. These "Palestinian" people are just arabs from Egypt, Syria, Lebanon, and Jordan. They are not, have never been, and will never be a seperate race of Arabs. They are simply Arabs from surrounding areas that infiltrated Israel when the Romans drove the Jews out. Now The Jews have control again and took back what is rightfully theirs - the Promised Land. There will never be a Palestinian State because the institution of such will insure the annihilation of the Jews. The arabs in Israel know they can't win the land with military might, so they must do it in pieces using diplomacy. Then at the right time, they get the other arab nations to join in and finish off the Jews. This is Yasser Arafat's game plan he has publicly stated. They will never be happy with any land for peace bribe, they will only want more. It is better for them to relocate to Jordan which is the new Palestine anyway. Muslims don't have any claim to Jerusalem in their religion. It is not in the Koran and Mohammed never spoke of it or visited it. It is just a game plan to try to discredit and erase Christianity. It says in the Bible that the descendants of Ishmael are the wild ass among men, that his hand will be against all men - and the hand of all men will be against him.

This is a nice history lesson, but it still offers no reason why Jewish people can lay claim to this strip of land. Simply because your forefathers were once tenets of this land does not bestow everlasting right to it. If this logic were valid, then I want Germany, France, Portugal, Rome, etc., essentially all of the lands that MY forefathers lived on. Man can only lay claim to what he can produce with his own efforts. Rights are for the living.

 

[thebabydoc]

This is a nice history lesson, but it still offers no reason why Jewish people can lay claim to this strip of land. Simply because your forefathers were once tenets of this land does not bestow everlasting right to it. If this logic were valid, then I want Germany, France, Portugal, Rome, etc., essentially all of the lands that MY forefathers lived on. Man can only lay claim to what he can produce with his own efforts. Rights are for the living.

Look AT THIS PICTURE OF ME>>> I AM AN ASSCLOWN!@!!!

 

[The Almighty]

OOOh, big mistake, because the number one claim by the Palestinians is that it is originally their land and they were kicked out by the Jews (of course completely false). The land was apportioned to the Jews as a homeland after the Holocaust. A tiny, tiny repayment for the atrocities which the entire world allowed to occur.

According to your statement, the Palestinians have no claim to any of the land and the Israelis have no reason at all to return any of it (not even the Gaza Strip) to the Palestinians.

So all their supporters can go suck a big dick.

And Alex:
Like I said, that post warranted nothing more than a "fuck you" as a response. I'll let you know when the IQ's of those responding in the affirmative approach that of the tunafish sandwich I just ate.

BTW alex, do you have something against janitors and plumbers? Because I am a plumber of sorts and I don't hold myself above anyone who works for a living. Oh yeah, learn how to spell and use grammar correctly or don't even address me, you unemployed transvestite.

LOL you are my new hero.

 

[atlantabiolab]

Look AT THIS PICTURE OF ME>>> I AM AN ASSCLOWN!@!!!

Why did you edit out the text of your post? Your argument against the Palestinians is valid, I don't believe that they are blameless. My argument is against the irrational reasoning that the Jewish people use for their claim to Israel. They exist in perpetual fear, when they do not need to. Any other country in the Free World would allow them to exist peacefully, yet they maintain their existence for a piece of shit land. They feel that the land is more important than their lives. I am not against fighting for your property, but I am not for chaining yourself to misery, for land, when there are numerous other options.

Also, why are Christians who take the Bible literally considered Fundamentalists, yet these Jews in Israel are not called Fundamentalist Jews? They take the concept of "Israel" literally.

 

[SSAlexSS]

First of all there is no such thing as a "Palestinian" or a Palestine in the first place. The Romans only named the area Palestine to add insult to injury after driving out the Jews and naming Israel after their enemies. That was in 70 ad, before then there had been no such thing as Palestine or a Palestinian arab. These "Palestinian" people are just arabs from Egypt, Syria, Lebanon, and Jordan. They are not, have never been, and will never be a seperate race of Arabs. They are simply Arabs from surrounding areas that infiltrated Israel when the Romans drove the Jews out. Now The Jews have control again and took back what is rightfully theirs - the Promised Land.


If you snooze you loose! Just because Jews lived there 1857+ years ago does NOT give them the right to take it back.

If my house is forclosed, do I have the right to come back many years later and with force take it back? No. France owned lousiana. If god forbid they become the next superpower, will it be right if they take it by force? What about British and USA? What about Russia. What if the soviet union decided to take back Alaska. Do they have the right? Or how about forcefully conquer (again) the eastern Europe which Russian empire used to own?

Why are the Jews allowed these things and we aren't? Double standarts?



It says in the Bible that the descendants of Ishmael are the wild ass among men, that his hand will be against all men - and the hand of all men will be against him.

Do not put all your faith in an old book, which was written by many writers (often contradicting themselves) and which changed all the time.

 

[JohnyJuice]

?

Oh wait , anyone with the IQ above room temperature does NOT end his posts with the kind of talk you hear plumbers and janitors say. I guess that is where you spend most of your time.

I take offense to that. I lay pipe all over town, so i guess that makes me a plumber. Fuck you mang.

 

[SUST-MAN]

So....Do we agree?

Ariel Sharon kills palestinians that live in israel that are against his regime...

And Saddam Hussein killed Kurds that live in iraq that are agaisnt his regime...

Soo...umm...Why would BUSH call Sharon a "MAN OF PEACE"....yet Saddam is "THE EVIL DOER"???

 

[The Almighty]

So....Do we agree?

Ariel Sharon kills palestinians that live in israel that are against his regime...

And Saddam Hussein killed Kurds that live in iraq that are agaisnt his regime...

Soo...umm...Why would BUSH call Sharon a "MAN OF PEACE"....yet Saddam is "THE EVIL DOER"???

Because the world is generally a fucked up place....and many of the most powerful people in the country are Jews.

 

[SUST-MAN]

Hence, the Jewish Bais in american politics...

 

[Stumpy (The Fucking dumbass Piece of Shit!)]

So....Do we agree?

Ariel Sharon kills palestinians that live in israel that are against his regime...

And Saddam Hussein killed Kurds that live in iraq that are agaisnt his regime...

Soo...umm...Why would BUSH call Sharon a "MAN OF PEACE"....yet Saddam is "THE EVIL DOER"???

Are you retarded?

Iraqi Kurds are Iraqi citizens, and they've been citizens ever since the creation of Iraq in 1921. They're fighting the dictatorial Baathist regime of Saddam Hussein to gain freedom in their areas. They don't want to destroy Iraq. They either want complete independence for their areas, or at least autonomy in a democratic, federated Iraq.

Palestinians in the Israeli-occupied territories of the West Bank and Gaza Strip are not Israeli citizens. These territories were occupied in the War of 1967, and the Palestinians there have either Jordanian (those in the West Bank) or Egyptian (those in the Gaza Strip) passports.

Also, about 20% of Israeli citizens in Israel proper (not in the occupied territories) are of Palestinian Arab descent.

Thus (in theory) the Palestinians in both West Bank and Gaza Strip are fighting against the occupation of those territories. Most of the world supports them in that endeavor. However, a sizeable percentage of the Palestinians (in the territories and abroad) don't want independence for West Bank and Gaza - they want to destroy the State of Israel and ethnically cleanse the Jews. The Israeli government is not going to allow that shit to happen, and that's what Israel is fighting: those militant Palestinian groups (Hamas, Islamic Jihad, The Al-Aqsa Brigades, etc.) that seek the destruction of the state of Israel and who kill Israeli civilians. Any other country would do the same thing.

 

[SUST-MAN]

"Are you retarded?

*****What a big man you are calling people names on the internet.

"Iraqi Kurds are Iraqi citizens, and they've been citizens ever since the creation of Iraq in 1921. They're fighting the dictatorial Baathist regime of Saddam Hussein to gain freedom in their areas. They don't want to destroy Iraq. They either want complete independence for their areas, or at least autonomy in a democratic, federated Iraq. "

*****Please tell me where i said that the Kurds want to destroy iraq? I said that they are against his regime and want to create KURDISTAN. If you dont know this, then you should not be debating this argument.

"Thus (in theory) the Palestinians in both West Bank and Gaza Strip are fighting against the occupation of those territories. Most of the world supports them in that endeavor. However, a sizeable percentage of the Palestinians (in the territories and abroad) don't want independence for West Bank and Gaza - they want to destroy the State of Israel and ethnically cleanse the Jews. The Israeli government is not going to allow that shit to happen, and that's what Israel is fighting: those militant Palestinian groups (Hamas, Islamic Jihad, The Al-Aqsa Brigades, etc.) that seek the destruction of the state of Israel and who kill Israeli civilians. Any other country would do the same thing"

*****Thats right...and Ariel Sharon does not want to ethnically clense the palestinians. Not at all...he just wants everyone to get along.

Let me tell you something, if someone kills your brother, and his family supports it...you will want their entire family killed. Multiply this by thousands and you will understand why the palestinians would like to get rid of the jews. Everytime they see a Jew, they see an oppressor, and a killer.

Of course palestinians are not israeli citizens...How could they swear allegence to an oppressive regime?

My point is...the KURDS, are not intertwined with the rest of iraq. much like the palestinians are not intertwined with the jews.

Saddam does not consider the KURDS as iraqis....and Sharon does not consider the palestinians as Israelis...

Much like the Armenians is Nogorno Karapagh. ALthough they lived in Azerbaijan ....and may or may not be "TECHNICALLY" citizens, but THEY ARE NOT FRIENDS OF THE GOVERNMENT.

 

[Stumpy (The Fucking dumbass Piece of Shit!)]

Please tell me where i said that the Kurds want to destroy iraq? I said that they are against his regime and want to create KURDISTAN. If you dont know this, then you should not be debating this argument.

No, I know what their objectives are. Perhaps you should not be debating this argument.

Iraqi Kurds don't want to cleanse the rest of Iraq; they just want autonomy for their territories. Many Palestinians don't want autonomy for the West Bank and the Gaza Strip - they want to destroy Israel.

Let me tell you something, if someone kills your brother, and his family supports it...you will want their entire family killed. Multiply this by thousands and you will understand why the palestinians would like to get rid of the jews. Everytime they see a Jew, they see an oppressor, and a killer.

The world supports the Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza Strip in their fight against the occupation. However, no one, with the exception of extremists, supports the destruction of Israel.

Of course palestinians are not israeli citizens...How could they swear allegence to an oppressive regime?

Looks like you missed my point about 20% of Israeli citizens (in Israel proper) being Palestinian Arabs.

The Palestinians Arabs in the West Bank and Gaza Strips are Jordanian and Egyptian citizens because those territories were captured from Jordan and Egypt.

Saddam does not consider the KURDS as iraqis....and Sharon does not consider the palestinians as Israelis...

You're all over the place.

Kurds are a nationality and an ethnic group. Kurds and Arabs in Iraq are distinct groups, but both have Iraqi citizenship.

Palestinian Arabs in Israel have Israeli citizenship. Palestinian Arabs in the West Bank and the Gaza Strip do not because those territories were captured from Jordan and Egypt, and that is why the Palestinians there have Jordanian and Egyptian passports.

 

[Jimsbbc]

If you snooze you loose! Just because Jews lived there 1857+ years ago does NOT give them the right to take it back.

If my house is forclosed, do I have the right to come back many years later and with force take it back? No. France owned lousiana. If god forbid they become the next superpower, will it be right if they take it by force? What about British and USA? What about Russia. What if the soviet union decided to take back Alaska. Do they have the right? Or how about forcefully conquer (again) the eastern Europe which Russian empire used to own?

Why are the Jews allowed these things and we aren't? Double standarts?

Right. The Palestinians snoozed so they had their ass handed to them. May the better dog eat the other dog, after all it's a dog eat dog world. Land in the middle east is at a premium. The most fit will rule it, and it appears to be the Jews dominating. No piece of land is exempt from the threat of a superior nation acquiring it. The Palestinians are weak and got displaced like Israel by the Romans. Obviously they didn't deserve to keep it.

It says in the Bible that the descendants of Ishmael are the wild ass among men, that his hand will be against all men - and the hand of all men will be against him.

Do not put all your faith in an old book, which was written by many writers (often contradicting themselves) and which changed all the time.

I am simply showing that even then it was widely known that the arab nations will be the thorn in all of humanity. God saved Ishmael and his mother through his provision to ensure his offspring would produce the arab nations and be the source of the events in Revelation.

 

[SUST-MAN]

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Iraqi Kurds don't want to cleanse the rest of Iraq; they just want autonomy for their territories. Many Palestinians don't want autonomy for the West Bank and the Gaza Strip - they want to destroy Israel. "
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

*****Thats right. We agree about the Kurds..We are both saying the same thing. The palestinian wants to destoy israel because they are being oppressed...ALL ARABS WANT TO DESTROY ISRAEL FOR THE PALESTINIAN OPPRESSION. CITIZEN OR NOT.

And if the palestinians were offered their own state...they would take it. ANd before you say that they already were offered a state...please review the terms of that BS agreement.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"The world supports the Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza Strip in their fight against the occupation. However, no one, with the exception of extremists, supports the destruction of Israel. "
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

No one supports the destrucion of israel because they have no reason too...its not personal enough... Tell me that the israelis dont want the extermination of the palestinians. THEY BOTH HATE EACH OTHER AND WANT TO WIPE EACH OTHER OUT.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Looks like you missed my point about 20% of Israeli citizens (in Israel proper) being Palestinian Arabs.

The Palestinians Arabs in the West Bank and Gaza Strips are Jordanian and Egyptian citizens because those territories were captured from Jordan and Egypt. "
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Tomato...TOMATOE...
Their home is in palestine\israel and they are fighting against opression. Dont you see...When you are at war, you want to kill the enemy. When your people are dying or being oppressed...you want to wipe out the opressor. Wether you are a citizen...or someone who just bought an apartment in gaza...WHEN your home and lifestyle is threatened....you fight back!

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Kurds are a nationality and an ethnic group. Kurds and Arabs in Iraq are distinct groups, but both have Iraqi citizenship.

Palestinian Arabs in Israel have Israeli citizenship. Palestinian Arabs in the West Bank and the Gaza Strip do not because those territories were captured from Jordan and Egypt, and that is why the Palestinians there have Jordanian and Egyptian passports."
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Thats wonderful about the passports....hehe....but so what?

The fact is...THE KURDS want to rip apart iraq to make KURDISTAN...this is a fact no matter which way you slice it.

THE PALESTINIANS want to rip apart israel to make PALESTINE.......and due to the HELL that they are forced to live through...YES...they want to kill all the israelis. I wouldnt want to be neighbors with murdering oppresser either.

AND ONE MORE THING!!!!!!!!

how do you do that cool "quote" thing....??? hehe

 

[thebabydoc]

Why did you edit out the text of your post?

I didn't. That fuckstick LOOOOOSER 2Thick did.

 

[thebabydoc]

What rapidly deteriorating anti-Jew thread would be complete without an addition from our resident Aryan, houndog? Even 2Thick's inserted (or edited, as the case may be) his 2worthless cents.

Thanks for that salient contribution, houndog. Looks as if the only intelligible part of your post is, of course, my name and you even got that wrong. Why don't you go ahead and switch back to that lovely swastika avatar you had last month?

I guess houndog decided to delete his post rather than once again get his head bashed in by a "dirty Jew." must have been the karma...

Hmmm.
Counting sust, alex, 2 Thick, houndog... 12+10+13+8...nope, sorry Alex, IQ count just barely passed grilled cheese sandwich, still a ways to go to get to the tunafish.

 

[~HOUNDOG~]

BabyDoc- Let's see here. You purport yourself to be intellgent; however, your only arguments against opposing views are weak and you resort to insults quite annoyingly often. For the record-I am not anti-jew or anti-israel. I believe Israel has the right to exist. But I also believe that the palestian people have the right to have a nation and homeland where it belongs. Palestine or "Isreal". Until the Isreali people stop commiting blatant crimes against humanity people like you will never have my respect. Later bitch.

 

[Frackal]

anti israel not anti jew

common tactic used to divert

 

[thebabydoc]

I never posted anything. stop making crap up. idiot

LOL!!!

and Frack- these comments are from anti-Jews; not anti-semites, not anti-Israel, plain old racist bigots. It's akin to posting a thread saying "Why don't white people take back basketball?" but since they're Jews and of course control the media, politics, and the US economy among other things, it's ok to insult and bash them.

 

[The Almighty]

babydoc, I think you come up with some great arguments...but for the record I am not racist in any sense of the word. I am definately not anti-Jew. The only thing I do not agree with is the billions of dollars our country gives Israel every year.

In my mind that money would be better served here at home.

 

[thebabydoc]

Almighty- this is true, your comments usually revolve around the money and resources that the US send to the Middle East, but I'm afraid you just don't grasp the repercussions of it all. Truth be told, Israel serves our interests there. They do "dirty work" that we cannot do (prime example: the bombing of the Iraqi nuclear plant 10+ years ago). You need to realize that in the scope of our economy and what we spend abroad every year, $3 Billion is a drop of piss. And it is probably the best spent $3 Billion we have. The medical, electronic, agricultural, and defense technology alone that comes out of that little country the size of Rhode Island each year is roughly equivalent to that of the whole of Europe. If you want to think of it in another way, consider what we spend each year to support institutions of higher learning in this country including such great liberal think tanks such as Berkely. Not such a bad deal when we look at it that way. And remember, of the $3 Billion that goes to Israel each year by the terms of the grants, something like 75% of that MUST be spent on US military goods- in effect, it's a disguised subsidy for our defense industry and I assure you, there are no Jews at the CEO chairs at Lockheed, Grumman, or any of the other defense contractors in the USA.

BabyDoc- Let's see here. You purport yourself to be intellgent; however, your only arguments against opposing views are weak and you resort to insults quite annoyingly often. For the record-I am not anti-jew or anti-israel. I believe Israel has the right to exist. But I also believe that the palestian people have the right to have a nation and homeland where it belongs. Palestine or "Isreal". Until the Isreali people stop commiting blatant crimes against humanity people like you will never have my respect. Later bitch.

1. Don't even assume that I would ever desire your respect. I wouldn't grab hold of your hand if I was drowning other than to pull you in and step on your head.

2. I think that lovely swastika avatar or yours last month pretty much spoke for itself; if it didn't, a quick search of your posts could find a half-dozen white supremacist references to improve one's opinion of you.

and
3. I don't even bother responding to your "arguments" because they are uterly baseless and devoid and ignorant of all available evidence and fact.

Yet another example:

Israel "guilty of crimes against humanity?" Why, because the Belgians say so?

Understand this you redneck fuck: if the terrorists killing innocent CIVILIANS, particularly women and children chose to hide among Palestinian civilians who harbor and hide them, those acting as human shields are no longer civilians. Like the Vietcong, they are active participants in the terrorism. What fate they suffer they have brought upon themselves by
a) their continued support of their bogus leader (Arafart) and
b) their continued harboring, aiding, and abetting terrorists.

Israel is guilty of no crime except attempting to prevent their own genocide.

The Palestinians in question have been offered "land for peace" a million times. They have turned all offers down because peace is not what they seek. THEY have said it a thousand times- what they seek is the complete elimination of the State of Israel. The contrary cannot be said of the Israelis. They do not teach hate and lies about the Palestinian people to their kindergarten children, they do not drop bombs into schoolbuses and schoolhouses (unless they are hiding more terrorists), and they do not seek the elimination of either the Palestinians or their right to exist as a separate state.

I dare anyone to provide evidence to the contrary.

 

[Frackal]

Very interesting babydoc...as I say, I try to never let my ego get in the way of forming an opinion... the constant desire to defend your opinion, born of ego, is a fallacy of human nature... I try to avoid that myself.

 

[The Almighty]

Almighty- this is true, your comments usually revolve around the money and resources that the US send to the Middle East, but I'm afraid you just don't grasp the repercussions of it all. Truth be told, Israel serves our interests there. They do "dirty work" that we cannot do (prime example: the bombing of the Iraqi nuclear plant 10+ years ago). You need to realize that in the scope of our economy and what we spend abroad every year, $3 Billion is a drop of piss. And it is probably the best spent $3 Billion we have. The medical, electronic, agricultural, and defense technology alone that comes out of that little country the size of Rhode Island each year is roughly equivalent to that of the whole of Europe. If you want to think of it in another way, consider what we spend each year to support institutions of higher learning in this country including such great liberal think tanks such as Berkely. Not such a bad deal when we look at it that way. And remember, of the $3 Billion that goes to Israel each year by the terms of the grants, something like 75% of that MUST be spent on US military goods- in effect, it's a disguised subsidy for our defense industry and I assure you, there are no Jews at the CEO chairs at Lockheed, Grumman, or any of the other defense contractors in the USA.

A ton of good points here. You obviously know a lot more about this topic than I do. I do know of 95% of the facts you just posted...and again it is not that I am anti-Israel...maybe I just cant grasp the idea of giving away $3 billion every year, even if most of it is spent on goods made in the U.S. of A.

 

[thebabydoc]

Do you feel the same way about the $10 Billion we give to African countries for "humanitarian aid" when we have plenty of people here who could use the money? Because I am much more offended by that. Why is it our job to feed the rest of the world?

The government's argument is that if we don't, they'll become communist, socialist, etc... and it's to keep them on our good side, LOL!!! check out Somalia, Iran, Iraq!!! Look at the UN voting these past 6 weeks !!!!

Believe me, dollars spent in Israel are the best spent money we have in our foreign policy.

 

[The Almighty]

Do you feel the same way about the $10 Billion we give to African countries for "humanitarian aid" when we have plenty of people here who could use the money? Because I am much more offended by that. Why is it our job to feed the rest of the world?

The government's argument is that if we don't, they'll become communist, socialist, etc... and it's to keep them on our good side, LOL!!! check out Somalia, Iran, Iraq!!! Look at the UN voting these past 6 weeks !!!!

Believe me, dollars spent in Israel are the best spent money we have in our foreign policy.

LOL ya I am against almost all the humanitarian aid we give out. We shell out billions upon billions each year yet at the same time the same government is bitching about how we dont have enough money for schools, health care, etc.

After reading your posts and doing a good amount of research on my own I really dont mind supporting Israel anymore. You can go to sleep tonight knowing you changed a persons point of view.

 

[thebabydoc]

After reading your posts and doing a good amount of research on my own I really dont mind supporting Israel anymore. You can go to sleep tonight knowing you changed a persons point of view.

Thank you man, that really means a lot to me...now if that laboring patient would only let me get some sleep.

 

[Lao Tzu]

The medical, electronic, agricultural, and defense technology alone that comes out of that little country the size of Rhode Island each year is roughly equivalent to that of the whole of Europe.

What are you basing this statement on?

 

[The Almighty]

What are you basing this statement on?

Just some quick examples over the past 50 years.


Military

1950 - Israeli Air Force - The creation of the Israeli Air Force started with the vision of two people: Aharon Remez from Britain and Heyman Shamir from America.

1960 - Mirage Helicopter - The Israeli Mirages were very successful against the Syrian MIGs. Israeli Pilot Yoram Agmon was the first pilot in the world to down a MIG.

1970 - Merkava Tank - The Merkava tank was designed for maximum crew protection and was the best tank of its time. It weighed 70 tons and could go 35 miles per hour.

1980 - Shavit Rocket - Shavit rockets are used by the Israel Space Agency to launch communications and military spy satellites.

1990 - Arrow Missile - Arrow Missiles are being made by Israel for the US Military to replace the obsolete Patriot rocket system anti-tactical ballistic missile.

Agriculture

1950 - Kibbutz - Regional cooperation in agriculture saved expenses by common use of farming equipment, warehouses, schools, clinics, communal halls, shops, etc.

1960 - Trickle Drip Irrigation - Trickle Drip Irrigation was a method of watering crops by delivering the correct quantities of water to the roots of plants, thereby not wasting any precious water.

1970 - Aquaculture - Israel is breeding different types of fish to produce new species of fish, such as the: Carp, Tilapia, Mullet, Catfish, Fresh Water Prawn, Australian Crayfish, Sea Bream, Sea Bass, Trout, and Pink Salmon.

1980 - Judea-Samaria - Israeli introduction of modern farming methods to the mountainous Judea-Samaria region has resulted in widespread use of modern irrigation, effective application of fertilizers, better pest control, and planting of upgraded seed varieties.

1990 - Bio-High Tech - Israel has been among the top three nations in the world in Biological research publications.

Medicine

1950 - Medical Schooling - Hebrew University in Jerusalem and Technion in Haifa were established.

1960 - Doctors - Israel has the greatest ratio of doctors in the world - one to about every 450 people.

1970 - Transplants - Great strides in Israeli medicine allowed for the transplants of retina, kidney, pancreas, liver, heart and lung.

1980 - Hadassah Medical Org. - Hadassah Medical Org. received international recognition for its research in the fields of bone marrow transplantation, immunology, oncology, cardiac surgery, and AIDS.

1990 - Aerospace Medicine - Hadassah and Hebrew University have been working with NASA to see the effect of gravity on mammal reproduction in outer space.

Conveniences

1950 - Solar Energy - Israelis have taken solar energy to the next level finding ways to harness the power of the sun for use in people's daily lives.

1980 - Astra SPX Business Jet - IAI and Galaxy Business jets developed the Astra SPX aircraft. It was the private jet of choice for the U.S. Air Force Air National Guard because it was unbeatable in the distances it reached and had the highest speed of any aircraft in its class.

1990 - Computers - High tech companies from around the world like Intel and 3Com are investing in Israel. Israel's silicon valley has produced its own big companies like: Check Point (network security), Mirabilis (internet chatting; acquired by AOL), Comverse Technology (voicemail for cellular phones), Gilat (broadband internet access), Opal, Orbit, and Galileo (chips).

Resources:

Silver, Edward, "Israel: Tech's New Promised Land" Los Angeles Times, July 12, 1999, p. C3.

ThinkQuest, "A Light Unto the Nations" israeltech.pack36.com

 

[Lao Tzu]

excellent. This page says 22% of all nobel laureates are jewish.

http://www.jinfo.org/

When you consider that jews are only 0.2% of the population, that is a commendable ability to add to the worlds knowledge base.

 

[The Almighty]

excellent. This page says 22% of all nobel laureates are jewish.

http://www.jinfo.org/

When you consider that jews are only 0.2% of the population, that is a commendable ability to add to the worlds knowledge base.

Indeed. Not only that but during the past 6 years 3 of the Wolf Prize Recepients for Physics have been from Israel.

 

[thebabydoc]

Is it, could it be?

Yes, there it is, a small tear there on my cheek and a knot in my throat.

I am not the world's most pro-Israel person but I just cannot stand by and watch while people bash a country doing nothing more than trying to survive. I consider it all a success if I even made one person think twice about this topic.

Seriously, thank you.

Now to work on Dballer...

 

[Stumpy (The Fucking dumbass Piece of Shit!)]

Thats right. We agree about the Kurds..We are both saying the same thing. The palestinian wants to destoy israel because they are being oppressed...

No, bro, we're not saying the same thing.

The Kurds want independence for their regions, not the destruction of all of Iraq.

The Palestinians in the West Bank and the Gaza Strip want to be free of Israeli rule, and on top of that many of them, with the help from other Arabs, want to destroy Israel itself. The international community supports them in their fight in the West Bank and Gaza and sees this as legitimate, but no one, with exception of some Arab and Muslim states, supports the destruction of Israel itself.

Israel won't allow that to happen. If the Arabs try that again (as they have on several occasions since 1948), they'll be bludgeoned horribly.

ALL ARABS WANT TO DESTROY ISRAEL FOR THE PALESTINIAN OPPRESSION. CITIZEN OR NOT.

Close to 20% of Israeli citizens are of Palestinian Arab descent, and they're doing just fine. Many are doctors, lawyers, artists, lawmakers in the Israeli parliament, etc. Most Israeli Arabs, as citizens of an economically and socially highly developed state that's on par with Western Europe and North America, live better than most Arabs in Arab countries.

A substantial percentage of citizens in many Arab countries are illiterate, ignorant, and very uneducated: http://www.arabicnews.com/ansub/Daily/Day/000324/2000032401.html

Add to that the fact most Arab countries are dictatorial regimes or monarchies and you'll understand the hatred for both Israel and Jews (most Arab propagandists don't distinguish between the two). Most totalitarian regimes single out an enemy in order to function - in the case of most Arab states, Jews and Israel are seen as evil incarnate. It's basically a medieval, scholastic view of the world, but much of the Arab press is controlled by the state, so they supply their masses with this kind of racist propaganda.

Most Arab governments use such propaganda to deflect attention from the fact that they're undemocratic, despotic, and totalitarian. Sort of like Czarist Russia used anti-Semitism by publishing anti-Semitic forgeries like "The Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion" to sanction pogroms (wholesale massacres) of Jews.

And if the palestinians were offered their own state...they would take it. ANd before you say that they already were offered a state...please review the terms of that BS agreement.

True, it was a semi-lame offer, but it was probably the best deal ever presented to them. They should've taken it.

No one supports the destrucion of israel because they have no reason too...its not personal enough... Tell me that the israelis dont want the extermination of the palestinians. THEY BOTH HATE EACH OTHER AND WANT TO WIPE EACH OTHER OUT.

The hatred is there, I won't deny it, but most Israelis don't want to exterminate Palestinians. That's a pretty serious charge. Where are you getting this?

Half of your assertions read like headlines from sensationalist tabloid rags.

Tomato...TOMATOE...
Their home is in palestine\israel and they are fighting against opression. Dont you see...When you are at war, you want to kill the enemy. When your people are dying or being oppressed...you want to wipe out the opressor. Wether you are a citizen...or someone who just bought an apartment in gaza...WHEN your home and lifestyle is threatened....you fight back!

If you don't understand the subtleties of international law and the legitimacy of certain national struggles, just say so. There's no need for you to mock what I'd said with "Tomato... TOMATOE."

As I've said before, and I'll repeat this again, the Palestinians in the West Bank and the Gaza Strip are fighting the Israeli occupation. The international community is on their side and considers their struggle legitimate. However, that is it. The international community recognizes Israel's right to live in peace within the borders of 1967, so the Palestinians can dream all they want about destroying Israel.

Thats wonderful about the passports....hehe....but so what?

If the Palestinians really wanted independence in the West Bank and the Gaza Strip, they would have asked Egypt and Jordan for that when those territories were administered by the Jordanians and Egyptians from 1948 to 1967.

The fact is...THE KURDS want to rip apart iraq to make KURDISTAN...this is a fact no matter which way you slice it.

The Kurds want independence for the territories in which they're a clear majority. They have no intention of destroying all of Iraq, nor of eliminating, i.e., cleansing, the Sunni and Shi'a Arabs of Iraq.

THE PALESTINIANS want to rip apart israel to make PALESTINE.......and due to the HELL that they are forced to live through...YES...they want to kill all the israelis.

A good percentage of the Palestinians want an independent state in the West Bank and Gaza Strip. The international community does not consider those territories part of Israel, so there's no need to rip apart the State of Israel.

However, yet another portion of the Palestinians (and other Arabs and Muslims) wants Israel proper eliminated and Jews cleansed, but that's not going to happen, and if they try that again, a few Arab countries will be nuked out of existence.

Your comparison is inaccurate, and your argument doesn't hold any water.

I wouldnt want to be neighbors with murdering oppresser either.

Nice propagandistic description of an entire people.

Armenia's neighbors include Turkey and Azerbaijan. How is that working out?

AND ONE MORE THING!!!!!!!!

how do you do that cool "quote" thing....??? hehe

Click on the quote icon in the lower right-hand corner of the post that you want to quote.

 

[SUST-MAN]

Stumpy...

I dont understand you. You keep saying that the kurds do not want to destroy iraq. Where have i ever said that they do? I keep sayinf that they want to create kurdistan in northern iraq. I never said ANYTHING about the rest.

One more thing....your taking occupation lightly. You need to understand that no one wants to live under oppression. When you are oppressed, and the oppressor is killing you civilians, YOU WANT TO KILL ALL THE OPRESSORS. I dont blame the palestinians for hating the jews.

When israel was created....the arabs were against it...they had a right to be against it. Even many americans were agianst it. At what point do you think that palestinians should have accepted it??? AFTER the fighting began?

If you think that they would just fold their arms and let their long time enemy claim the territory and rule over them in an oppressive regime....You do not know the arab people.....in fact...no people would stand for it.

ALSO...
If the armenians could press a button and wipe out all the turks and azerbaijanis is the world....THAT BUTTON WOULD BE PRESSED.

--------------------
Close to 20% of Israeli citizens are of Palestinian Arab descent, and they're doing just fine.
--------------------

Yes....and there are also jews that fight for the palestinian cause. But please dont tell me that those 20% dont hate the jews. THey may not be oppressed....but all arabs feel this way.

The point is...There is a double standard. If you cant see that, then you have been brainwashed by the media.

---------------------
True, it was a semi-lame offer, but it was probably the best deal ever presented to them. They should've taken it.
---------------------

No way....you dont fight for 50 years....then just give up. They want a FREE state....not a state surrounded by illegal settlements.

--------------------
The hatred is there, I won't deny it, but most Israelis don't want to exterminate Palestinians. That's a pretty serious charge. Where are you getting this?

Half of your assertions read like headlines from sensationalist tabloid rags.
-----------------------

Where am i getting this? Ariel Sharon is a war criminal. He has shown his hatred for the palestinian people..in jenin.....he has shown his hatred for the arabs in lebanon 84'....And go ahead...ask a jew how they feel about the palestinians...see the anger in their faces. DO NOT BELIEVE THE PROPAGANDA!

Tell me that you disagree with belgium on this point...
YOU REALLY DONT THINK ARIEL SHARON IS A WAR CRIMINAL?

 

[spongebob]

Stumpy...

I dont understand you. You keep saying that the kurds do not want to destroy iraq. Where have i ever said that they do? I keep sayinf that they want to create kurdistan in northern iraq. I never said ANYTHING about the rest.

correct me if im wrong stumpy, but what i think he is saying sust-man is that you draw a comparrison between the situation in iraq with the kurds and the isreali-palinstine conflict. as stumpy has explained in several post(babydoc to) is that the difference is that the kurds just want a piece of land that they already have a majority population in, they do not want to destroy iraq. the palistinian extremist want to destroy isreal and the jews. so when you draw the comparrison between the two it seems to imply that you must feel that the kurds want to destroy iraq. thats what ive read from his post.

 

[thebabydoc]

This phrase "double standard" you keep using is an utter joke.

If you can't see the clear distinction between what Palestinian terrorists bent on genocide are doing and what a legitimate government trying to defend its innocent citizens is doing then it is you that have been blinded. By what I cannot imagine because it is only the Arab media and anti-semitic propaganda that espouses this belief. There is no double standard. That would apply if you were talking about two identical, or even remotely similar groups or situations, and the Kurds and the Palestinians have nothing in common except that perhaps they have the same level of education and shower with about the same frequency.

Time and time again the entire free world has said to the Palestinians- "control your radicals, stop the violence, and come to the negotiating table" Yet they continue to HARBOR, SUPPORT, and SUPPLY Hamas and other radical groups. There is ABSOLUTELY no chance that they will achieve peace or their goals (if their goals were to have an independent state) with their current tactics- a two year old could recognize that. They do not care. Once again, the reason? THEY DO NOT WANT PEACE. THEY WANT THE COMPLETE DESTRUCTION OF THE STATE OF ISRAEL. And that's just not going to happen. Not only because Israel will never let it happen, but because, with the exception of the rest of the Middle East, the rest of the world (as bigoted and racist as it is), will never let it happen.

And if you want to continue on this "they only want to destroy their oppressors," let me turn that around on you:

1. That's like cutting off your nose to spite your face- the Israelis are the reason the land in worth anything, the reason there is agriculture, preserved archaelogy, medical and scientific research, transportation, a democratic government. Show me another neighboring country that resembles it (except perhaps Egypt, who as you might recall has a peace accord with the Israelis, is also democratic, and also gets $3 Billion/year from the US) coincidence? I think not.

2. It's the Israelis who should be commended for not completely exterminating the Palestinias. Lord knows they could do it in less time than it will take us to take out the trash in Baghdad. When you have a mole digging up your backyard or a horsefly that keeps circling and bites you repeatedly, what do you do? You kill it. If anything, the Palestinians that we are taliking about here are the ones doing the oppressing. They are oppressing an entire free nation. Innocent men, women, and children guilty of nothing more than being born or emmigrating to a nation that is democratic and supports their rights to practice their religion free from any oppression. Innocent civilians having all their freedoms stripped away and in constant fear for their lives because some uneducated fundamentalists want to eliminate their entire race. They are the ones being oppressed and with the ability to eliminate their oppressors yet they continue to show restraint, why????????

3. Blacks in the U.S.: did they try to destroy the US? God knows they were FAR MORE OPPRESSED than the Palestinians. Indians following Ghandi? Did they try to destroy India? That's because terrorism DOES NOT WORK. But even without terror tactics they got what they wanted/deserved because it was just and correct. And before you even THINK to go there again, it was not Rabin's Israeli fundamentalist "terrorists" against the UK that caused the establishment of Israel. Yes, they may have laid down the groundwork for people to take notice and come to the table, but that was their ONLY GOAL. People have taken notice of the Palestinians "plight" for years, it's just they who do not wish to come to the table because genocide does not equal peace.
Just because you chose not to listen to the very words of Arafat and his Arab bretheren does not make it any less true. What they want is the elimination of the State of Israel and all of the Jews.

Ever hear the expression "Those who do not learn from history are forever destined to repeat it?" No one (with any intelligence) thinks Hitler was right, he is one of the most heinous people in history. Why now does anyone support the Palestinians? There cause is the same. Because Hitler didn't try to hide his goals and there weren't quite so many cry-your-eyes-out liberals more concerned with being PC and espousing a cause than bothering to look for the truth. Try looking for the truth.

We hear "millions" of people crying out for "peace" and against the soon-to-come war in Iraq. They are not in the majority, they just make the most noise. Unfortunately, in politics noise seems to be more important than truth or content.

 

[SSAlexSS]

Do you feel the same way about the $10 Billion we give to African countries for "humanitarian aid" when we have plenty of people here who could use the money? Because I am much more offended by that. Why is it our job to feed the rest of the world?


Believe me, dollars spent in Israel are the best spent money we have in our foreign policy.

Personally I dont like my tax dollars going to buy helicopters and tanks for the Israelis to torture and kill the innocents. I rather have my tax money go to poor people in africa than murderers.

 

[SSAlexSS]

Stumpy...

I dont understand you. You keep saying that the kurds do not want to destroy iraq. Where have i ever said that they do? I keep sayinf that they want to create kurdistan in northern iraq. I never said ANYTHING about the rest.

One more thing....your taking occupation lightly. You need to understand that no one wants to live under oppression. When you are oppressed, and the oppressor is killing you civilians, YOU WANT TO KILL ALL THE OPRESSORS. I dont blame the palestinians for hating the jews.

When israel was created....the arabs were against it...they had a right to be against it. Even many americans were agianst it. At what point do you think that palestinians should have accepted it??? AFTER the fighting began?

If you think that they would just fold their arms and let their long time enemy claim the territory and rule over them in an oppressive regime....You do not know the arab people.....in fact...no people would stand for it.

ALSO...
If the armenians could press a button and wipe out all the turks and azerbaijanis is the world....THAT BUTTON WOULD BE PRESSED.

--------------------
Close to 20% of Israeli citizens are of Palestinian Arab descent, and they're doing just fine.
--------------------

Yes....and there are also jews that fight for the palestinian cause. But please dont tell me that those 20% dont hate the jews. THey may not be oppressed....but all arabs feel this way.

The point is...There is a double standard. If you cant see that, then you have been brainwashed by the media.

---------------------
True, it was a semi-lame offer, but it was probably the best deal ever presented to them. They should've taken it.
---------------------

No way....you dont fight for 50 years....then just give up. They want a FREE state....not a state surrounded by illegal settlements.

--------------------
The hatred is there, I won't deny it, but most Israelis don't want to exterminate Palestinians. That's a pretty serious charge. Where are you getting this?

Half of your assertions read like headlines from sensationalist tabloid rags.
-----------------------

Where am i getting this? Ariel Sharon is a war criminal. He has shown his hatred for the palestinian people..in jenin.....he has shown his hatred for the arabs in lebanon 84'....And go ahead...ask a jew how they feel about the palestinians...see the anger in their faces. DO NOT BELIEVE THE PROPAGANDA!

Tell me that you disagree with belgium on this point...
YOU REALLY DONT THINK ARIEL SHARON IS A WAR CRIMINAL?

Good post. Ariel sharon was responcible for driving out of hundreds of thousands of palestinians from their lands. You dont exactly expect the palestinians to come back with cookies, do you?


http://www.palestinefacts.org/pf_1991to_now_sharon.php

 

[thebabydoc]

Personally I dont like my tax dollars going to buy helicopters and tanks for the Israelis to torture and kill the innocents. I rather have my tax money go to poor people in africa than murderers.

1. That was addressed to Almighty, I could give 2 shits what you think.
2. Clearly you still have not learned to distinguish fact from fiction. In the same way the Vietcong were active participants, so to can no Palestinians presently being killed by Israeli forces be considered "innocents." They actively HARBOR, SUPPORT, and SUPPLY Hamas and other radical groups. They are in the line of fire because they choose to place themselves there and they continue to be in a war because they refuse to stop supporting a leader who has stated throughout his life that peace is not what he wants.
3. Lastly, as I noted before, you're well below tunafish-sandwich-level IQ, so stop messing up this thread.

BTW, did you even bother to read your link, asswipe?

Here it is so YOU can read it:

In 1983, an Israeli government commission of inquiry, known as the Kahane Commission, determined that Defense Minister Sharon was negligent and should have foreseen that permitting the Phalangist forces to enter the camps carried a potential for catastrophe. They charged that Sharon should have taken precautions against such a massacre. But the commission rejected the idea that Minister Sharon was directly responsible for the crime, an idea that was also rejected by the federal court in New York that heard Sharon's 1985 libel suit against Time magazine who repeated unfounded allegations about Sharon's role. Nonetheless, due to Israeli discomfort with the event, Sharon was forced to resign and face widespread public opprobrium that nearly ended his political career. The matter was therefore lawfully settled in Israeli and US courts with a reasonable conclusion and outcome.

For years, Mr. Sharon's political opponents, in Israel and abroad, along with a host of Arab leaders, have exploited Sabra and Shatila to score moral points against Israel -- even as Syria made an ally of Elie Hobeika, the Phalangist personally responsible for carrying out the massacres. They continue to accuse Sharon of crimes for which he has already been cleared.

On June 18, 2001, nineteen years after the event, a group of 28 Palestinian relatives of the victims of the Sabra and Shatila massacres, motivated and financed by anti-Israel operatives, filed a civil claim under Belgium's "war crime" law, a 1993 law that allows Belgian magistrates to try war-crimes cases no matter where they were committed. The Belgians are embarrassed by this case: Foreign Minister Louis Michel has suggested that the law will have to change lest Belgian courtrooms become clogged with politically motivated "war-crimes" indictments. In June 2002, the Belgian court dismissed the case.

In fact, the entire article says that Sharon is not a criminal and has been cleared of any and all wrongdoing or role in such "crimes" by several courts including those in Israel, New York, and Belgium.

 

[thebabydoc]

Also from that website:

Wall Street Journal

June 22, 2001
Review & Outlook
The Trials of Sharon


Q: "So let me be absolutely clear: You are in no doubt that Ariel Sharon is indictable as a war criminal?"

A: "No doubt whatsoever."

Thus goes the exchange between the narrator of a BBC documentary broadcast this week in Britain on the 1982 massacres of Palestinians by Christian Phalangists in the Sabra and Shatila refugee camps of West Beirut, and Richard Falk, professor of international law at Princeton.

And lo, the very next day came the news that survivors of those massacres had lodged a suit in Brussels, demanding Mr. Sharon be indicted under a 1993 law that allows Belgian magistrates to try war-crimes cases no matter where they were committed. Now there's word that Prime Minister Tony Blair has refused a meeting with Mr. Sharon in London next week, possibly for fear of the unsavory impression that might create with the British public.

So much, then, for whatever hopes EU leaders had of playing a mediating role in the Arab-Israeli conflict. What's chiefly at issue here, however, is the leading role European governments, institutions and media have taken in politicizing, and thus cheapening, the cause of human rights.

Look at the case against Mr. Sharon. In 1983, a legitimately constituted Israeli commission of inquiry, known as the Kahane Commission, determined that Mr. Sharon, as Minister of Defense, should have known better than to allow the Phalangists to get near the Palestinian camps. For what amounted to a charge of negligence, Mr. Sharon was forced to resign and face widespread public opprobrium that nearly ended his political career.

The work of the Kahane group was judged to have been scrupulous and fair. Thus, in 1985, a New York jury determined that Time magazine had defamed Mr. Sharon when it alleged that he had known in advance that the Phalangists would carry out a massacre and, furthermore, that he had granted them permission to do so. Time was forced to run a retraction.

But matters did not end there. For years, Mr. Sharon's political opponents, in Israel and abroad, along with a host of Arab leaders, have exploited Sabra and Shatila to score moral points against Israel -- even as Syria made an ally of Eli Hobeika, the Phalangist personally responsible for carrying out the massacres. Now the BBC has piled on with its smartly made documentary, which in tone and thrust, and through the omission of such details as the findings of the New York court, re-indicts Mr. Sharon for the crimes of which he has already been cleared. This is viewer manipulation and politicized journalism at its worst.

The law by which the Palestinian plaintiffs are attempting to bring Mr. Sharon to heel is the same used earlier this month to convict four Rwandans for genocide. We applauded that verdict, arguing that because a fair trial is a practical impossibility in Rwanda, a Belgian court employing strict rules of evidence and procedure could serve as a morally defensible alternative.

These criteria, however, manifestly do not apply in the case of Mr. Sharon. Israel is no lawless state and its justice system compares favorably with those countries now so intent on serving as a surrogate. More to the point, unless one is prepared to claim that negligence, shortsightedness and perhaps incompetence belong in the category of "war crimes," Mr. Sharon's actions in regard to Sabra and Shatila in no way justify an indictment.

Even Belgium's leaders seem to realize matters may have got out of hand. Foreign Minister Louis Michel has suggested that the law will have to change lest Belgian courtrooms become clogged with politically motivated "war-crimes" indictments. He's right, though one wonders why he didn't foresee this obvious eventuality when he was championing the ideal of "universal jurisdiction" while chomping at the bit to extradite Chilean General Pinochet.

More articles, with some Irsaeli bias, but hy, supplied by SSAlexSS:
http://www.tzemach.org/fyi/docs/winston/june21-01.htm
http://www.jewish-history.com/editorial_07112001.html http://www.cdn-friends-icej.ca/isreport/june01/bbc_sharon.html
http://web.israelinsider.com/bin/en...o=Article^l1174&enZone=Diplomacy&enVersion=0&

 

[SSAlexSS]

1. That was addressed to Almighty, I could give 2 shits what you think.
2. Clearly you still have not learned to distinguish fact from fiction. In the same way the Vietcong were active participants, so to can no Palestinians presently being killed by Israeli forces be considered "innocents." They actively HARBOR, SUPPORT, and SUPPLY Hamas and other radical groups. They are in the line of fire because they choose to place themselves there and they continue to be in a war because they refuse to stop supporting a leader who has stated throughout his life that peace is not what he wants.
3. Lastly, as I noted before, you're well below tunafish-sandwich-level IQ, so stop messing up this thread.

BTW, did you even bother to read your link, asswipe?

Here it is so YOU can read it:

In fact, the entire article says that Sharon is not a criminal and has been cleared of any and all wrongdoing or role in such "crimes" by several courts including those in Israel, New York, and Belgium.

UHUM. No shit sherlock. Time (an american media and such), Israel, etc would not go against interests of the United States of Israel.


There is NO way you can defend the atrocities of Ariel Sharon.
Yeh, the children had bazookas in their hands ready to shoot. Yeh right.

Killing of civilians is forbiden by the international law. What is so hard there?

According to your logic the WTC victims were guilty as well. Good going sherlock. Oh wait, no american is a terrorist! Double standart?

With what money do they supply Hamas and other groups? And why do people blow themselves up? Research the root of the issue, son!

 

[SUST-MAN]

to thebabydoc

You call Hamas terrorists....

THEY CALL THEM FREEDOM FIGHTERS.

THe palestinians have no army...The Jews do...
How do you expect the palestinians to fight back?

Cmon...babydoc, You have to admit, the palestinians have no way to fight other than "terrorism" aka freedom fighting.

 

[SSAlexSS]

1. That was addressed to Almighty, I could give 2 shits what ?

Here it is so YOU can read it:

In fact, the entire article says that Sharon is not a criminal and has been cleared of any and all wrongdoing or role in such "crimes" by several courts including those in Israel, New York, and Belgium.

I did read it.

Just because New York and Israel says so, does not make it right. Obviously they are biased towards Sharon.
Just because he was "cleared" in some (not all) courts does NOT make him innocent.

--------------------------------------------
Q: "So let me be absolutely clear: You are in no doubt that Ariel Sharon is indictable as a war criminal?"

A: "No doubt whatsoever."

--------------------------------------------


You should read it more carefully and ignore the obvious bias.

 

[SSAlexSS]

Around mid-day on Thursday 16 September 1982, a unit of approximately 150 Israeli-allied Phalangists entered the first camp. For the next 40 hours members of the Phalangist militia raped, killed, and injured a large number of unarmed civilians, mostly children, women and elderly people inside the encircled and sealed camps. The estimate of victims varies between 700 (the official Israeli figure) to 3,500. The victims and survivors of the massacres have never been deemed entitled to a formal investigation of the tragedy, since Israel's Kahan Commission did not have a judicial mandate and was not backed up by legal force.


From

http://www.indictsharon.net/massacres.shtml

Read that and think.

 

[SSAlexSS]

This phrase "double standard" you keep using is an utter joke.


to be more important than truth or content.

check that out
http://www.humanityonhold.com/sharon/massacres.html#

A young military officer, Ariel Sharon led an Israeli elite commando force, Unit 101, which carried out brutal raids against Palestinians. The massacre in the West Bank village of Qibya, on October 14, 1953, was perhaps the most notorious. Sharon's unit blew up 45 houses in the village, killing 69 civilians, two-thirds of them women and children, according to Israeli historian Avi Shlaim in his recent book The Iron Wall.


FACTS:
Israel is the only middle eastern country which has nuclear weapons.

Israel is the only nation that can constantly violate other countries borders without any permission

What country in the Middle East refuses to sign the nuclear non prolifiration treaty?

In which country in the Middle East have high ranking officers admitted to executing UNARMED POWS?

etc.....

 

[SSAlexSS]

to thebabydoc

You call Hamas terrorists....

THEY CALL THEM FREEDOM FIGHTERS.

THe palestinians have no army...The Jews do...
How do you expect the palestinians to fight back?

Cmon...babydoc, You have to admit, the palestinians have no way to fight other than "terrorism" aka freedom fighting.

Also to add.


When france surrendered, there were still a lot of small scale fighting, not unlike what you see today in the palestine.

You dont call those french people terrorists? No, they were freedom fighters fighting for their freedom from the nazi oppression.

Same is here. Palestinians are fighting for their freedom!

 

[The Almighty]

From

http://www.indictsharon.net/massacres.shtml

Read that and think.

Uh...any reasonable person wouldnt consider a website named "indictsharon" to be an unbiased and objective source.

 

[SSAlexSS]

Uh...any reasonable person wouldnt consider a website named "indictsharon" to be an unbiased and objective source.

Read it.

 

[Stumpy (The Fucking dumbass Piece of Shit!)]

Stumpy...

I dont understand you. You keep saying that the kurds do not want to destroy iraq. Where have i ever said that they do? I keep sayinf that they want to create kurdistan in northern iraq. I never said ANYTHING about the rest.

Your comparison rests on the explicit assumption that the Kurds in northern Iraq and the Palestinians in the West Bank and the Gaza Strip have similar political objectives.

I have demonstrated, point by point, that the Kurds and the Palestinians have very different objectives, and that their situations are not at all alike.

Therefore, I proved that your argument is flawed, and that it has no substance.

You have introduced many extraneous points in your wildly polemical and semi-literate rants (what you've written so far cannot be described as cohesive arguments) that have no bearing whatsoever on your argument.

One more thing....your taking occupation lightly. You need to understand that no one wants to live under oppression. When you are oppressed, and the oppressor is killing you civilians, YOU WANT TO KILL ALL THE OPRESSORS. I dont blame the palestinians for hating the jews.

No, I'm not taking occupation lightly. I never discussed the situation of the Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza, or how emotional they can get in their attitudes towards all the Jews in Israel, and not just towards the IDF. I never even touched upon that. That's irrelevant to this discussion on the political objectives of both the Palestinians and the Kurds.

You need to stop telling me what I need to understand.

When israel was created....the arabs were against it...they had a right to be against it. Even many americans were agianst it. At what point do you think that palestinians should have accepted it??? AFTER the fighting began?

Again, when did we begin talking about the War of 1948, and how Israel became a state? Israel is now a country, and that's a fact that you can't reverse. Deal with it.

Stay on the topic. Mainly, stick to the discussion of the Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza, and how you think that their predicament is similar to that of the Kurds.

Oh, and about the Arabs rejecting the partition plan in 1947 - tough shit. They protested vehemently when the Spanish and the Portuguese reconquered Iberia (Spain and Portugal) and kicked them out of there; they protested when the French reconquered Narbonne from the Arabs, and kicked them out of there; they protested when the Normans and the Italians booted them out of Sicily and chunks of the Italian boot itself (Campania, Calabria, and parts of Apulia); they whined like bitches when the Italians and the Greeks reconquered Crete from them and expelled the Arabs from there; they protested when the Italians kicked them out of Corsica, and so on and so forth.

Yes, the Arabs like to protest and talk about injustice. What they like to do even more is to invade and colonize large swaths of land. That's how most of North Africa and the Middle East became culturally Arab.

There are twenty two Arab states covering most of North Africa and the Middle East, and one Jewish state that is .002% the size of this "Arab world."

The Arabs should be very happy with what they have.

If you think that they would just fold their arms and let their long time enemy claim the territory and rule over them in an oppressive regime....You do not know the arab people.....in fact...no people would stand for it.

I've said already, the international community supports the Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza, but that's it. They have no right to go after Israel itself.

ALSO...
If the armenians could press a button and wipe out all the turks and azerbaijanis is the world....THAT BUTTON WOULD BE PRESSED.

So, now you speak for all Armenians?

How old are you?

Yes....and there are also jews that fight for the palestinian cause. But please dont tell me that those 20% dont hate the jews. THey may not be oppressed....but all arabs feel this way.

There are some Jews that support the Palestinians, but they don't do so militarily, and no Jew supports violent attacks on Israeli civilians.

As for the Arabs in Israel hating Jews, you have no idea what you're talking about. Go to Tel-Aviv and Haifa and talk to the Arabs who live there.

The point is...There is a double standard. If you cant see that, then you have been brainwashed by the media.

There's bias in the American media, I'll grant you that.

If anyone has been brainwashed by the media, it is you. Seems like you swallow every single propagandistic accusation against Israel hook, line, and sinker.

No way....you dont fight for 50 years....then just give up. They want a FREE state....not a state surrounded by illegal settlements.

Yes, WAY! You take what you can get, and work with that.

Looks like you didn't read my previous post carefully enough. This is what I said:

If the Palestinians really wanted independence in the West Bank and the Gaza Strip, they would have asked Egypt and Jordan for that when those territories were administered by the Jordanians and Egyptians from 1948 to 1967.

Where am i getting this? Ariel Sharon is a war criminal. He has shown his hatred for the palestinian people..in jenin.....he has shown his hatred for the arabs in lebanon 84'....And go ahead...ask a jew how they feel about the palestinians...see the anger in their faces. DO NOT BELIEVE THE PROPAGANDA!

LOL! You're the one who falls for propagandistic rhetoric.

This is what you said in one of your previous posts:

Tell me that the israelis dont want the extermination of the palestinians.

I then asked you to back it up:

The hatred is there, I won't deny it, but most Israelis don't want to exterminate Palestinians. That's a pretty serious charge. Where are you getting this?

Half of your assertions read like headlines from sensationalist tabloid rags.

You now respond with:

Where am i getting this? Ariel Sharon is a war criminal. He has shown his hatred for the palestinian people..in jenin.....he has shown his hatred for the arabs in lebanon 84'

I didn't say anything about Sharon - I asked you about your charge that the Israeli people want to exterminate the Palestinians. You have not presented any evidence to prove your assertion.

Oh, and if you think that this bit of yours:

ask a jew how they feel about the palestinians...see the anger in their faces.

means anything, then I don't know what to tell you.

You understand the humanity of the Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza, but you don't understand why, say, a mother of a 15-year-old girl who was just decapitated in a bus blast feels enraged?

Are you for real?

Think about that for a moment.

Tell me that you disagree with belgium on this point...
YOU REALLY DONT THINK ARIEL SHARON IS A WAR CRIMINAL?

That's an extraneous point. The Belgians would like to prosecute Sharon for his involvement in the Lebanese campaign, not for anything related to the occupation of the West Bank and Gaza.

Stay in the ball park.

 

[Stumpy (The Fucking dumbass Piece of Shit!)]

correct me if im wrong stumpy, but what i think he is saying sust-man is that you draw a comparrison between the situation in iraq with the kurds and the isreali-palinstine conflict. as stumpy has explained in several post(babydoc to) is that the difference is that the kurds just want a piece of land that they already have a majority population in, they do not want to destroy iraq. the palistinian extremist want to destroy isreal and the jews. so when you draw the comparrison between the two it seems to imply that you must feel that the kurds want to destroy iraq. thats what ive read from his post.

That's exactly what I was saying.

K for you, bro.

 

[Stumpy (The Fucking dumbass Piece of Shit!)]

SUST-MAN,

Look at what you said in the following thread: http://boards.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=217720

Why cant we all just get along?

Dcup, I think its really israel who is going for world domination.

Read "Protocols of the Learned elders of Zion".....

Wow!

Those "Protocols" are an anti-Semitic forgery concocted by the secret service of the Russian Czar, the Okhrana, to blame the Jews for the problems of the failing Russian Empire. This was used to justify wholesale massacres of Jews in the Russian Empire.

The Nazis used the "Protocols" to justify their policies as well, while it was obvious to most historians and objective observers that these "Protocols" are nothing but racist propaganda.

Looks like you think that racist tract is for real.

That's very nice.

I regret having wasted my time talking to you.

 

[thebabydoc]

SUST-MAN,

Look at what you said in the following thread: http://boards.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=217720



Wow!

Those "Protocols" are an anti-Semitic forgery concocted by the secret service of the Russian Czar, the Okhrana, to blame the Jews for the problems of the failing Russian Empire. This was used to justify wholesale massacres of Jews in the Russian Empire.

The Nazis used the "Protocols" to justify their policies as well, while it was obvious to most historians and objective observers that these "Protocols" are nothing but racist propaganda.

Looks like you think that racist tract is for real.

That's very nice.

I regret having wasted my time talking to you.

Me too. But at least we have revealed ignorance for what it is....

 

[SUST-MAN]

Wow...leave dont check the board for a day or two and you get hammered...

Give me some time to repond to this...i'm at work! hehe

Maybe tonight when i have time to read it.

 

[bouncer]

http://www.infoclick.org/nutshell3.html