Anyone with before and after blood test on tribulus (high protodioscins extract) ?

[manaroundthehouse]

Lets just say I have more faith in a independent and unbiased study of any particular supplement and feel it would carriy more weight than a study that is motivated by profit.

In my opinion ALL studies, no matter what the subject, are "biased." After all the first step in the scientific method (a true study) is to form a hypothesis. By its very nature a study is somewhat biased. However I understand your point and it is duly noted.

You will also be very hard pressed to find a study that is NOT motivated by profit in this material world in which we live. Who in hell has the money and/or time to sit around and "study?" Research, especially chemical is very expensive and time consuming. There are many many anti-supplement laboratory freaks out there who will at the very least print a very biased study disclaiming any and all supps.

The supp advertisers offer us colorful graphs and those hilarious before and after photos. They make for great entertainment but fall far short of specifics.

I couldn't agree more. But getting back to the topic, tribulus is one of VERY VERY few supplements I KNOW to produce results for ME. Like I stated before, I firmly believe that the effects are dependent on ones natural test. production. If the true numbers were known, I suspect tribulus has positive results on a minority of subjects. I believe this because people w/ a high rate of natural test. production is low. I just happen to be one of the lucky ones.

Dave949, I feel your point and I agree with your general attitude toward supplement advertising. 99% of it is complete BULLSHIT. The only true way to find out is for yourself to be the subject of such a "study." And this is where the supplement companies are getting rich. The willingness of the average Joe to try ANYTHING and EVERYTHING looking for that magic pill that shreds fat and builds lean muscle without all the hard work.
We, ESPECIALLY Americans, want an easy way to to everything including look good.
This elusive magic pill does NOT exist. I can hear all the gear heads chiming in now, let me stop you. I have done juice too. Yup it works and is as close to a "magic pill" as it gets. BUT at what cost? It simply amazes me to see all these people stickin needles in their ass not even knowing what the positive results are from the syringe's contents, much less the negative effects.

JMHO

 

[Dave949]

Spoken like a true gentleman.

I have tried Trib. I purchased a high potency extract from www.beyond-a-century.com. I have no quarrels with beyond a century and feel they are a stand up company but the trib did absolutely nothing for me.

I will concur that trib (may) have a (limited) effectiveness for someone who has suppressed test levels or whose test levels are at the lower baseline level.

Below I have pasted findings done by a group called Supplement Watch and I think their findings pretty well sums up the trib issue which is, in a nutshell, is that trib will have a (marginal) effect on test levels. However.....if someone (like yourself) has had positve results then you are the exception and not the rule, which comes back to there is only one way to find out if it works for someone and that is by trying it.


Tribulus Terrestris

Description:
Tribulus (puncture vine) is a vine that has been used as a general tonic (energy) and herbal treatment for impotence, but is found primarily in dietary supplements marketed for increasing testosterone levels in bodybuilders and power athletes.

Claims:

Increased testosterone production
Increased muscle mass/strength

Theory:
The idea behind tribulus is that it may increase testosterone levels indirectly by raising blood levels of another hormone, luteinizing hormone (LH). LH is a hormone produced by the pituitary gland and plays a role in regulating natural testosterone production and serum levels.

Scientific Support:
The active ingredient in tribulus is unknown, but is though to be a component known as furostanol saponins. There has been very little research conducted on the effectiveness of tribulus in elevating testosterone levels – the main claim made by body building products which contain the herb. In some cultures, the tribulus terrestris plant has been used as a "tonic" to in crease energy levels and treat sexual dysfunction (usually in males). In animals, tribulus may stimulate "mounting" behavior. Some European studies suggest that tribulus extract can increase testosterone levels 30-50% above baseline levels – but still well within the normal range. Unfortunately, however, these same studies also suggest a similar increase in estradiol levels – not exactly what the hardcore muscle builders should be interested in boosting

If tribulus extract does indeed elevate testosterone levels somewhat, but keeps them within normal ranges, it may be an effective supplement for individuals with reduced testosterone levels such as athletes at risk for overtraining syndrome and in those individuals on a prolonged low-calorie diet. It will not, however, cause you to start sprouting muscles from all parts of your body, as many body building mags would have you believe.

In one of the few well-controlled studies to examine the effects of tribulus terrestris on body composition and exercise performance looked at 15 resistance-trained males. Subjects received either a placebo or a large dose of tribulus (1.5mg per pound of body weight per day for 2 months). Results showed no changes in body weight, percentage fat, total muscle mass or muscle strength related to tribulus supplementation.

Safety:
Although no significant side effects should be expected at doses of tribulus contained in commercial dietary supplements, animal studies have suggested the possibility of locomotor (muscle coordination) disturbances following ingestion of tribulus in high quantities. In sheep consuming tribulus plant for several months, neurological disease was characterized by an irreversible, asymmetrical, weakness of the hindlimbs.

Value:
Products containing tribulus are typically marketed to bodybuilders and athletes concerned with increasing muscle mass and strength. Although such products are typically combinations of ingredients which include tribulus, rather than tribulus alone, the scientific evidence for product effectiveness is typically lacking. At this time, Supplement Watch does not view tribulus extract (on its own) as a valuable dietary supplement for muscle building. As a support ingredient contained in a wider supplement blend, tribulus may provide some benefits to those individuals interested in maintaining testosterone levels in the normal range (overtrained athletes and dieters).

Dosage:
A typical dosage of 250-1500 mg of tribulus per day is fairly common. Be sure to choose an extract standardized for at least 30-45% steroidal saponins (furostanol).

 

[chipdouglas3]

Truth is very hard to come by. I've read a lot day in day out, cause there was a time where I had such free time on my hands. I too am growing uncertain about tribulus alleged benefits towards raising T levels.

Is there anything else out there that could elevate T levels aside from roids ? In the herb kingdom is there anything like perhaps eurycoma longifolia ? I've not tried this last out but I read studies which results claimed it was great in many ways to increase sex drive, but what I know is having a boner doesnt mean your T levels are higher. To many people associate boners with jacked up T levels. I'm not at all after something that will raise T levels to supraphysiological ones, but mroe after something that can and will keep my T levels in the healthy range.

Best regards all

 

[JTD1972]

Why not take Clomid for a couple weeks?

 

[manaroundthehouse]

Why not take Clomid for a couple weeks?

FOR?

 

[JTD1972]

Clomid will raise your testosterone level as high as it will go naturally which is what chipdouglas3 is looking for.

 

[Morb]

ive seen a lot of articles that say clomid is a major carcinogen, probably better drugs to use

http://www.frot.co.nz/sift/dow.htm

 

[JTD1972]

Clomid is safe. You're taking it for two weeks. It's been studied and tested by the FDA. Women use it for 3-6 months at a time. Who knows what tribulus does to your body at 1 gram a day. That's a biased website attacking DOW. Nice picture at the top of a guys head exploding (maybe a Prozac side effect )