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anyone use aromasin EOD in conjunction with something else?
- Thread starter AAP
- Start date
karachi183
New member
^^^^^^^^^
macrophage69alpha
New member
aromasin can be used with nolva (as can AIFM- without pharmacokinetic interaction)
Clin Cancer Res. 2005 Dec 15;11(24 Pt 1):8722-7. Related Articles, Links
Effect of exemestane on tamoxifen pharmacokinetics in postmenopausal women treated for breast cancer.
Hutson PR, Love RR, Havighurst TC, Rogers E, Cleary JF.
School of Pharmacy, University of Wisconsin, Madison, Wisconsin 53705-2222, USA. [email protected]
PURPOSE: Rodent models of human breast cancer suggest that the combination of the steroidal aromatase inhibitor exemestane with tamoxifen may have additive activity. Clinical trials combining tamoxifen with letrozole or anastrazole have shown minor pharmacokinetic drug interactions. We did an open-label crossover clinical trial of the effect of exemestane on tamoxifen pharmacokinetics. DESIGN: Thirty-two postmenopausal women who were clinically disease-free following primary treatments for breast cancer receiving tamoxifen for at least 3 months were studied. Blood was collected for pharmacokinetic analysis after at least 4 months of receiving 20 mg tamoxifen daily. Subjects then began 8 weeks of oral exemestane (25 mg daily), followed by another set of blood samples. RESULTS: There were no serious toxicities noted when the two drugs were combined. There was no significant effect of exemestane on the area under the plasma concentration versus time curve (AUC) of tamoxifen at steady state before [3.04 mg h/L; 90% confidence interval (90% CI), 2.71-3.44] and during exemestane treatment (3.05 mg h/L; 90% CI, 2.72-3.41). There were no significant changes in the formation of primary tamoxifen metabolites. Oral clearance of exemestane averaged 602 L/h based on an average plasma exemestane AUC of 41.5 microg h/L (90% CI, 36.7-62.6). Plasma concentrations of estradiol, estrone, and estrone sulfate decreased when exemestane was begun; estradiol concentrations consistently decreased below the limit of quantitation. CONCLUSIONS: There is no pharmacokinetic interaction between tamoxifen and exemestane. No modification in the standard regimen of either drug seems to be indicated if they are used in combination. The combination of the two drugs was well tolerated during the 8-week evaluation period.
Clin Cancer Res. 2005 Dec 15;11(24 Pt 1):8722-7. Related Articles, Links
Effect of exemestane on tamoxifen pharmacokinetics in postmenopausal women treated for breast cancer.
Hutson PR, Love RR, Havighurst TC, Rogers E, Cleary JF.
School of Pharmacy, University of Wisconsin, Madison, Wisconsin 53705-2222, USA. [email protected]
PURPOSE: Rodent models of human breast cancer suggest that the combination of the steroidal aromatase inhibitor exemestane with tamoxifen may have additive activity. Clinical trials combining tamoxifen with letrozole or anastrazole have shown minor pharmacokinetic drug interactions. We did an open-label crossover clinical trial of the effect of exemestane on tamoxifen pharmacokinetics. DESIGN: Thirty-two postmenopausal women who were clinically disease-free following primary treatments for breast cancer receiving tamoxifen for at least 3 months were studied. Blood was collected for pharmacokinetic analysis after at least 4 months of receiving 20 mg tamoxifen daily. Subjects then began 8 weeks of oral exemestane (25 mg daily), followed by another set of blood samples. RESULTS: There were no serious toxicities noted when the two drugs were combined. There was no significant effect of exemestane on the area under the plasma concentration versus time curve (AUC) of tamoxifen at steady state before [3.04 mg h/L; 90% confidence interval (90% CI), 2.71-3.44] and during exemestane treatment (3.05 mg h/L; 90% CI, 2.72-3.41). There were no significant changes in the formation of primary tamoxifen metabolites. Oral clearance of exemestane averaged 602 L/h based on an average plasma exemestane AUC of 41.5 microg h/L (90% CI, 36.7-62.6). Plasma concentrations of estradiol, estrone, and estrone sulfate decreased when exemestane was begun; estradiol concentrations consistently decreased below the limit of quantitation. CONCLUSIONS: There is no pharmacokinetic interaction between tamoxifen and exemestane. No modification in the standard regimen of either drug seems to be indicated if they are used in combination. The combination of the two drugs was well tolerated during the 8-week evaluation period.
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Mr.X
Guest
AAP said:
Aromasin has a 24 hour half life, so you need to take it ED. I wouldn't recommend aromasin 1 day and nolvadex the next day. If you want to stretch dosing, use less aromasin and some nolvadex. Since you have arimidex, 1mg arimidex ED would do fine for you, aromasin is not the 'only' product you can use.
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Mr.X
Guest
AAP said:
You're using 1 gram of test and almost 1 gram of EQ, I don't think lipid profiles are your biggest worry bro.
Take it daily. And nolva daily.
As I have posted about several times over the years lipid profiles on cycle are ridiculous to even consider. I think for healthy exercising men they are a poor indicator of future CAD even without steroids. And certainly short periods of poor profiles have never been shown to have an effect on overall heart health. The steroids are going to throw your whole profile out of whack for a while so put that out of your mind and lessen the effects with Sesapure/polycosanol/red yeast extract/niacin if you're concerned.
As I have posted about several times over the years lipid profiles on cycle are ridiculous to even consider. I think for healthy exercising men they are a poor indicator of future CAD even without steroids. And certainly short periods of poor profiles have never been shown to have an effect on overall heart health. The steroids are going to throw your whole profile out of whack for a while so put that out of your mind and lessen the effects with Sesapure/polycosanol/red yeast extract/niacin if you're concerned.
macrophage69alpha
New member
there is a difference between .5mg and 1mg/day. actually for most people that need an aromatase inhibitor (ie they have any potential to get gyno- either inherently or dose related) 1mg/day of dex is not going to be enough.
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Mr.X
Guest
galaxy said:
.5mgs ED is a pretty strong dose. I remember you posting that you ran 1mg of arimidex ED and it dried you out, so you already know the effect of the product.
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Mr.X
Guest
galaxy said:
What was your cycle when you ran 1mg arimidex ED?
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Mr.X
Guest
galaxy said:
lol, you mean like 2 grams a lot?
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Mr.X
Guest
AAP said:
IMO, with 1 gram of test, consider doing 1mg arimidex ED. If you're gyno prone, it doesn't hurt to add 20mgs of nolvadex.
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Anthony Roberts
Guest
macrophage69alpha said:
J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 2000 Jul;85(7):2370-7.
Estrogen suppression in males: metabolic effects.
Mauras N, O'Brien KO, Klein KO, Hayes V.
Nemours Research Programs at the Nemours Children's Clinic, Jacksonville, Florida 32207, USA. [email protected]
Table 1 summarizes the changes in circulating hormone concentrations after anastrozole administration. Both doses were associated with comparable suppression of E2 (50%), with parallel increases in testosterone and free testosterone concentrations without any change in IGF-I (Fig. 1). Three subjects also received 3 mg Arimidex in an identical paradigm, yet there was a similar percent decline in E2 concentrations and a reciprocal increase in testosterone concentrations as with the 0.5- and 1-mg doses (data not shown). As all doses worked comparably in suppressing estrogen concentrations, and the tablet is compounded as 1 mg, we chose to use 1 mg as the dose used for all subsequent studies.
Figure 1. Changes in testosterone and E2 concentrations in normal young men (15–22 yr old) before () and after 10 days of oral anastrozole at 0.5 and 1 mg.
J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 2000 Jul;85(7):2370-7.
Comment in:
J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 2001 Apr;86(4):1836-8.
Estrogen suppression in males: metabolic effects.
Mauras N, O'Brien KO, Klein KO, Hayes V.
Nemours Research Programs at the Nemours Children's Clinic, Jacksonville, Florida 32207, USA. [email protected]
We have shown that testosterone (T) deficiency per se is associated with marked catabolic effects on protein, calcium metabolism, and body composition in men independent of changes in GH or insulin-like growth factor I production. It is not clear,,however, whether estrogens have a major role in whole body anabolism in males. We investigated the metabolic effects of selective estrogen suppression in the male using a potent aromatase inhibitor, Arimidex (Anastrozole). First, a dose-response study of 12 males (mean age, 16.1 +/- 0.3 yr) was conducted, and blood withdrawn at baseline and after 10 days of oral Arimidex given as two different doses (either 0.5 or 1 mg) in random order with a 14-day washout in between. A sensitive estradiol (E2) assay showed an approximately 50% decrease in E2 concentrations with either of the two doses; hence, a 1-mg dose was selected for other studies. Subsequently, eight males (aged 15-22 yr; four adults and four late pubertal) had isotopic infusions of [(13)C]leucine and (42)Ca/(44)Ca, indirect calorimetry, dual energy x-ray absorptiometry, isokinetic dynamometry, and growth factors measurements performed before and after 10 weeks of daily doses of Arimidex. Contrary to the effects of T withdrawal, there were no significant changes in body composition (body mass index, fat mass, and fat-free mass) after estrogen suppression or in rates of protein synthesis or degradation; carbohydrate, lipid, or protein oxidation; muscle strength; calcium kinetics; or bone growth factors concentrations. However, E2 concentrations decreased 48% (P = 0.006), with no significant change in mean and peak GH concentrations, but with an 18% decrease in plasma insulin-like growth factor I concentrations. There was a 58% increase in serum T (P = 0.0001), sex hormone-binding globulin did not change, whereas LH and FSH concentrations increased (P < 0.02, both). Serum bone markers, osteocalcin and bone alkaline phosphatase concentrations, and rates of bone calcium deposition and resorption did not change. In conclusion, these data suggest that in the male 1) estrogens do not contribute significantly to the changes in body composition and protein synthesis observed with changing androgen levels; 2) estrogen is a main regulator of the gonadal-pituitary feedback for the gonadotropin axis; and 3) this level of aromatase inhibition does not negatively impact either kinetically measured rates of bone calcium turnover or indirect markers of bone calcium turnover, at least in the short term. Further studies will provide valuable information on whether timed aromatase inhibition can be useful in increasing the height potential of pubertal boys with profound growth retardation without the confounding negative effects of gonadal androgen suppression.
bw1
Banned
AAP said:
Yes
I've posted this before, it's a good read:
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Here's a good read:
Aromasin will not effect your lipids. Here is a good article I got some time back, don't ask me where I can't remeber for sure. But, it is a good read:
The Best Anti-E
theres been a lot of talk on other boards about this lately, and a lot of bad information thrown out as well. i wanted to share the good info.
somone keeps posting how letrozole is the strongest and doesnt negatively affect cholesterol. this is not true. letrozole is NOT the strongest and it DOES negative affect cholesterol/lipid profile in a bad way.
aromasin(exemestane) is the best. this is why
both arimidex/ldex/anastrozole and femara/letrozole hurt your cholesterol. the way these 2 anti e's work is they inhibit the aromatase enzyme. by inhibiting the enzyme which converts testosterone to estrogen, you reduce or even come close to eliminating estrogen production. we need some estrogen to be healthy. the major drawback to this is without estrogen, your lipid profile gets fucked.
exemestane works differently. it does not stop the body from producing estrogen. rather, it makes it so the estrogen is unable to bind to receptors by deactivating the binding enzyme. if the estrogen cannot bind, you simply will not get bloated or get gyno. the estrogen is crippled due to exemestane. however, since the estrogen is still floating around, it will not negatively affect your lipid/cholesterol profile.
anastrozole doesnt cause a rebound effect, and neither does exemestane, but letrozole does. this means after you stop the letrozole, your estrogen rebounds and goes pretty high for a while, eventually it normalizes. you can avoid this by tapering your letro dose down before stopping it, but that is a pain in the ass. higher than normal can mess many things up post cycle when you stop. since the hpta has a feedback loop is primarily controlled by estrogen, high estrogen will tell your hpta to produce less testosterone, because it thinks the high estrogen is caused by too much testosterone. this is fact. now post cycle, dont we want to raise our test levels, not lower them? of course! so rebounds are bad. if you use letro taper the dose off to zero over a couple weeks.
fyi- nolvadex(tamoxifen) is a SERM(Selective Estrogen Receptor Modulator). this means on certain tissue it can act antagonisticaly or agonistically. in the case of lipid profiles, it acts agonistically. so, running tamoxifen with your anti e's will IMPROVE your cholesterol profile even if not on cycle or using any gear or other anti e's. its just plain good for cholesterol.
one thing to keep in mind though when runing tamoxifen with letro. letro reduces blood levels of tamoxifen by over 50%. a study showed 2.5mg letro ed made nolva levels drop to 40% of what they were before adding letro. this does not mean you cant use tamoxifen with letro, it just means you need to use more, about double. 20mg of nolva will act like 8mg if running letro. so make sure you are aware of this because you will need to buy more nolva to compensate. this does not happen when mixing tamoxifen with anastrozole or exemestane, it only hppens with letro.
also, many people and myself experince a reduction of libido on letro. this doesnt happen w/ ldex or exmestane as far as i know, and in my own experience, and ive run all 3 quite a bit.
the best combo IS exemestane and tamoxifen together. your cholesterol will be as good as can be considering your on a cycle of steroids. the dose of aromasin will vary depending on the users needs and how much aromatizing gear is being taken. usually 10-25mg ed works well. run 10mg ed nolva to improve your cholesterol.
second best combo i feel is anastrozole(ldex) and tamoxifen. ldex dose ranges from usually .15mg ed to 1mg ed. run 10mg nolva ed to improve cholesterol.
thierd best is letro and nolvadex. letro doses usually range from 1-2.5mg ed. run 20mg ed nolva to improve cholesterol w/ letro.
you do not need to run nolva with any of these 3, i do recomend it though as it will improve cholesterol compared to using the anti e's alone without nolva.
so in order of strength, on a dose per dose basis(not mg per mg) aromasin is def the strognest, next is letro, and then ldex.
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Anthony Roberts
Guest
Ulter said:
The same amount as in any of the ATD studies I've seen.
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Anthony Roberts
Guest
galaxy said:
Look up the ATAC studies. "Arimidex Tamoxifen Alone or in Conjunction"
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Mr.X
Guest
galaxy said:
topic ATD = AIFM
AnabolicX sells oral ATD here (just to give you an understanding of the product)
http://www.anabolicx.com/store/rebound.html
MickyBlues
New member
Question for Anthony Roberts, I am not currently on a cycle nor have I come off one. I have some fat in my belly area and can't seem to get rid of it. Diet's clean and exercise is on. I was thinking of running some Amorasin maybe with some Nolva 10mg eod. I am thinking this would lean me right out. What are your thoughts?
MickyBlues
New member
Mr.X said:
How would you compare this to 6-oxo? Seems to do the same thing.
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Anthony Roberts
Guest
MickyBlues said:
I don't wanna hijack this thread...but if you want to start another one, PM me the link to it...I'll try to help out if I can...
mr. snakes
New member
AAP:
aromasin is one of the most strongest anti-e on the market, there's no need to take it in conjunction with something else..............
aromasin is one of the most strongest anti-e on the market, there's no need to take it in conjunction with something else..............
