Please Scroll Down to See Forums Below Sounds like a great way to increase insulin sensitivity - it's a diabetes drug that is easily obtained through sources and can pass customs with 0 problems. I've heard it has definite promise and should be a hell of alot better than ALA /d-pinitol or the other herbal shit.
Anybody try Metformin??
- Thread starter PlateheadJim
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Bump
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Big Johnson
Guest
HELL YEAH I TRIED IT. ITS GOOD SHIT. NO SIDES AT ALL AND I SAW A BIG DIFFERENCE IN MY STRENGTH AFTER ONLY A WEEK. I LOST WEIGHT AT THE SAME TIME 
Hugh Gellatts
New member
How did you guys dose it? Should I skip the dose before my workout (to avoid GI issues)?
B
Big Johnson
Guest
I TOOK ONE 850 MCG TAB EVERY MORNING FOR EIGHT WEEKS. I'VE BEEN OFF FOR TWO WEEKS AND STILL HAVEN'T SEEN ITS EFFECT WEAR OFF. GOOD SHIT.
Great!
I ordered some - 200 850mg caps. I noticed alot of low carbers in the reply, what about during high carb days like to enhance a potent recovery drink or something?
I ordered some - 200 850mg caps. I noticed alot of low carbers in the reply, what about during high carb days like to enhance a potent recovery drink or something?
DREXX
New member
I liked it...
It got me pumped and help me lean out without dieting. I lost 1% bodyfat in 2 weeks with no change in diet, cardio or training.
The only thing I didn't like was that it killed my appetite
I was using 850mg twice per day (every 12 hours)
Come to think of it I should add it to my precontest stack only 23 days to go..
It got me pumped and help me lean out without dieting. I lost 1% bodyfat in 2 weeks with no change in diet, cardio or training.
The only thing I didn't like was that it killed my appetite
I was using 850mg twice per day (every 12 hours)
Come to think of it I should add it to my precontest stack only 23 days to go..
Verbal Gorilla
New member
Look at how it works fellas...
It blocks GH pathways...
It blocks GH pathways...
I'm very interested in metformin and have saved some good posts on it. Here is one with some good info.
I have been using it on a ketogenic diet for the last month and a half to speed descent into ketosis. I am only taking 1700mg/day, 2-3 days/wk until I'm in ketosis. I haven't been using it during the carb up. Here is some info for you: Description: Metformin is an oral biguanide antidiabetic agent similar to phenformin, a drug that was withdrawn from US marketing in 1977 due to the development of lactic acidosis. The risk for this adverse reaction is considerably lower with metformin, however. Metformin represents a drug with actions that differ from, yet compliment, those of the sulfonylureas. Compared to glyburide in non-insulin-dependent diabetics, metformin was found to achieve similar glycemic control but metformin lead to a higher incidence of digestive complaints than glyburide.[713] Metformin was introduced in Europe in the 1950's but was not approved by the FDA until December 30, 1994. It is approved for use in the US for treatment of NIDDM (Type II diabetes mellitus) either as monotherapy or in combination with sulfonylureas, alpha-glucosidase inhibitors, or with insulin. Mechanism of Action: Although its mechanism of action has not been clearly determined, decreased hepatic gluconeogenesis is thought to be the primary therapeutic effect of metformin in NIDDM.[1017] In addition, metformin appears to improve utilization of glucose in skeletal muscle and adipose tissue by increasing cell membrane glucose transport. This effect may be due to improved binding of insulin to insulin receptors since metformin is not effective in diabetics without some residual functioning pancreatic islet cells.[1156] Other mechanisms may include a decreased intestinal glucose absorption, however, this has only been observed in animals.[1156] Unlike the sulfonylureas, metformin rarely causes hypoglycemia since it does not significantly change insulin concentrations. An important distinction is that sulfonylureas increase insulin secretion thus making them useful in non-obese patients with NIDDM while metformin improves insulin resistance, a common pathophysiologic finding in obese patients with NIDDM.[1156] Metformin causes a 10?20% decrease in fatty-acid oxidation and a slight increase in glucose oxidation. Unlike phenformin, metformin does not inhibit the mitochondrial oxidation of lactate unless plasma concentrations of metformin become excessive (i.e., in patients with renal failure) and/or hypoxia is present.[1018] Clinically, metformin lowers fasting and postprandial hyperglycemia. The decrease in fasting plasma glucose is approximately 25?30%. Unlike oral sulfonylureas, metformin rarely causes hypoglycemia. Thus, metformin demonstrates more of an antihyperglycemic action than a hypoglycemic action. Metformin does not cause weight gain and in fact, may cause a modest weight loss due to drug-induced anorexia. Metformin also decreases plasma VLDL triglycerides resulting in modest decreases in plasma triglycerides and total cholesterol. Patients receiving metformin show a significant improvement in hemoglobin A1c, and a tendency toward improvement in the lipid profile, especially when baseline values are abnormally elevated. Pharmacokinetics: Metformin is administered as an oral tablet. The bioavailability of metformin is 50?60%. Food decreases the extent and slightly delays the absorption of metformin, however, it is recommended to be taken with meals.[1156] Metformin is distributed rapidly into peripheral body tissues and fluids and appears to distribute slowly into erythrocytes and to a deep tissue compartment (most likely GI tissues). The highest concentrations of metformin are found in the GI tract (10 times the concentrations in the plasma) and lower concentrations in the kidney, liver, and salivary gland tissue. Metformin does not bind to liver or plasma proteins. It is not metabolized by the liver and this fact may explain why the risk of lactic acidosis is much less for metformin than for phenformin (i.e., approximately 10% of patients have an inherited defect in the ability to metabolize phenformin).[1156] Metformin is excreted by the kidneys, largely unchanged, through an active tubular process. Approximately 30% of an oral dose is excreted in the feces, presumably as unabsorbed metformin and about 90% of a dose is excreted by the kidneys within 24 hours. The plasma half-life is approx. = 6.2 hours and the blood half-life is approx. = 17.6 hours in patients with normal renal function. Half-life is increased in patients with renal impairment. Metformin is removed with hemodialysis. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- IVANHOE Amateur Bodybuilder Posts: 87 From:Mexico D.F. Registered: Feb 2000 posted October 11, 2000 12:01 AM Staff Use Only: IP: Logged -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- How long is acting? Intestinal absortion 6 hrs. Maximum concentration in plasma 27-48 minutes. Plasmatic life 1.25-1.40 hrs. Si de nos vamos a morir....que sea de algo grave. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- DocJ Pro Bodybuilder Posts: 371 From: Registered: May 2000 posted October 11, 2000 12:13 AM Staff Use Only: IP: Logged -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Yes, I used it just like AM did on the BODYOPUS diet. I used it on the carb up days also and thought my skin was going to tear with simple movements like drinking a protein shake!! I have not used it with AS yet but will have some experience in this area in a month or so... ------------------ "It's a good day to be alive, sir, It's a good day to be alive he said..." -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ajc Freak Posts: 1700 From: Registered: Apr 2000 posted October 11, 2000 12:20 AM Staff Use Only: IP: Logged -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Anibolicum...You the man- Nice post. DocJ...I haven't seen you around for a while. So, should I wait until my cycle or use it now? ------------------ Visit my website (free of all Musclehedz pictures) at http://profiles.elitefitness.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- DocJ Pro Bodybuilder Posts: 371 From: Registered: May 2000 posted October 11, 2000 12:26 AM Staff Use Only: IP: Logged -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I would wait until the cycle. You have used those compounds before correct? If you have, it's likely that you will be able to tell how effective it is...especially if EQ increases your appetite like it does to me. BTW - I'm starting up a new clinic...been busy. ------------------ "It's a good day to be alive, sir, It's a good day to be alive he said..." -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Fonz Amateur Bodybuilder Posts: 91 From:Spain(Madrid) and England Registered: Jun 2000 posted October 11, 2000 07:48 AM Staff Use Only: IP: Logged -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Instead of using Metformin, which gives my mouth a metalic taste and stomach problems, why not just use Alpha Lipoic Acid, it works much better than Metformin by increasing glucose clearance by about 40-50%, and is far safer. Basically what this means is that you could consume 40-50% more carbs(which would further increase your glycogen stores) during a cycle and not gain an ounce of fat. godspeed -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ajc Freak Posts: 1700 From: Registered: Apr 2000 posted October 11, 2000 11:23 AM Staff Use Only: IP: Logged -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- What makes you say that Alpha Lipoic Acid is more effective? Just curious. ------------------ Visit my website (free of all Musclehedz pictures) at http://profiles.elitefitness.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- DocJ Pro Bodybuilder Posts: 371 From: Registered: May 2000 posted October 11, 2000 01:44 PM Staff Use Only: IP: Logged -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I don't doubt that ALA increases glucose clearance at that rate but I've used both and my experience was that glucophage works much better. ------------------ "It's a good day to be alive, sir, It's a good day to be alive he said..." -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Primo_man Pro Bodybuilder Posts: 334 From:Bloomsburg, PA Registered: Apr 2000 posted October 11, 2000 05:37 PM Staff Use Only: IP: Logged -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I agree with the Doc, metformin is much more effective than ALA from my experiences. I used both on the ketogenic diet for carbups and for decent into ketosis and noticed an definate change when I switched from ALA to metformin. Better pumps and I decreased the time it takes to enter ketosis by a full day!!! I used 3 850mg tabs a day, sometimes 4 to enter ketosis more quickly. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Fonz Amateur Bodybuilder Posts: 91 From:Spain(Madrid) and England Registered: Jun 2000 posted October 12, 2000 07:29 AM Staff Use Only: IP: Logged -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I think that ALA is far more effective because it gives you what I call a double whammy effect. It is superior to metformin in glucose clearing(40-50% compared to 10-40%). Then, since its both fat and water soluble, it is a universal antioxidant, apart from the fact that it increases oxygen transport to the heart, which as people on gear know(gear increases blood viscosity), is something we should ben thinking about. If you like vanadyl, you'll really like glucophage. I used it during a non-AS cycle where I was taking clen, creatine, glutamine and using DD BodyOpus diet. On the carb up days I used the glucophage and literally thought my skin was going to burst my muscles were so "full." I've never used it during a cycle though. Hope this helps... have see a few qestions about Metformin on the board reciently, and decided to do a little searching to find some answers. I hope this helps. By the way, since I have recently aquired a source for this I will be using it soon and will post my results. Hope you enjoy!!! Metformin: the most effective and under-appreciated life extension drug By Ward Dean M.D. to order Metformin Metformin, an anti-diabetic biguanide drug, has recently been introduced in the United States for the treatment of non-insulin dependent diabetes (type II diabetes). In addition to its promise in treating diabetes, metformin may prove to be one of the most promising anti-aging; life extending drugs available! Metformin is chemically very similar to phenformin, an anti-diabetic drug that was discontinued in the United States by the FDA in 1976. The reason for phenformin's removal from the market was because of a number of excess deaths in diabetic patients, caused by lactic acidosis. These deaths were invariably due to its continued use in diabetic patients who had compromised kidney or liver function. No deaths were ever reported in patients who had normal kidney and liver function. Phenformin's removal from the market was greatly lamented by most diabetologists, one of who once told me "phenformin did everything! It lowered insulin, reduced blood cholesterol and triglycerides, stimulated immunity and even resulted in weight loss!" He blamed the excess deaths with phenformin's use on the "stupid docs" who continued to use it in the face of abnormal liver or kidney function. Metformin is similar to phenformin in its beneficial metabolic effects, but it is much safer, in that it has even fewer propensities to cause lactic acidosis than phenformin. One of the most universal changes with age, is a progressive loss of glucose tolerance. When this loss of glucose tolerance becomes pronounced, it is diagnosed as diabetes. Indeed the diagnostic criteria for older people are much less strict than the criteria for younger people; otherwise, nearly every senior citizen would be diagnosed as diabetic. In parallel (or perhaps, the cause) of this loss of glucose tolerance with age, is a progressive loss of insulin sensitivity, i.e. a loss of response to insulin by peripheral tissues. Metformin's mechanism of action is unlike other anti-diabetic drugs, like the sulfonylureas (e.g. Glyburide, Diabinase). The sulfonylueas act by increasing the output of insulin from the pancreas, kind of like putting the pancreas on the dining room table and going over it with a rolling pin, squeezing out whatever insulin remains in the already over worked pancreas. After a period of time, this often results in pancreatic failure, transforming a type II (non-insulin dependant) diabetic into a type 1 (insulin dependant) diabetic. Metformin, to the contrary, acts by increasing the sensitivity of peripheral tissues (like muscles) to the effects of insulin. In effect, it rejuvenates this response, restoring the effects of glucose and insulin too much younger physiological levels. Although metformin is approved only for use in type II (non insulin dependant) diabetics, I use it with a great deal of success on my type 1 (insulin dependant) diabetic patients as well. When used with insulin dependant patients, I find that they are able to dramatically reduce their doses of insulin, and more easily maintain stable levels of blood glucose. Metformin acts in a much more physiologic manner than either the sulfonylureas, or even exogensously administered (i.e. injected) insulin itself. Consequently, if rarely, if ever, causes hypoglycemia, which may often result from the use of insulin or the sulfonylureas. One potential side effect in long term users of metformin, is that it may cause malabsorption of vitamin B12, consequently, I recommend that anyone taking metformin also supplement their diet liberally with vitamin B12. Diabetes is believed by many gerontologists to be an example of accelerated or premature aging. Since nearly everyone suffers from "subclinical" diabetes (i.e. a loss of glucose tolerance with age), I recommend metformin to all my life extension patients who are over 40. I believe metformin has a profound and truly "rejuvenating effect" on glucose and insulin metabolism. Among other benefits, this results in a reduced rate of pro-aging cross linkages in collagen. Dilman (1992) lists the following benefits of phenformin, which are shared by metformin, (1) Lowers blood cholesterol, triglycerides and beta lipo-proteins (2) Reduces development of atherosclerosis (3) Reduces insulin levels (4) Increases hypothalamo-pituitary sensitivity (which declines with age) (5) Improves cellular immunity (6) Reduces incidence of chemically induced cancer in rats (7) Enhances activity of anti-cancer drugs (8) Suppresses the growth of some tumors. Finally phenformin (and presumably metformin) increased the maximum lifespan of experimental animals. Consequently, in view of its record of safety and paucity of side effects, its physiological mode of action, and broad range of beneficial effects, I strongly encourage all of my patients over the age of 40 to take 500mg of metformin twice a day. ALL INFORMATION IS EDUCATIONAL AND SHOULD NOT REPLACE THE ADVICE OF YOUR PHYSICIAN IP: Logged ajc1977 Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 836) posted August 01, 2000 07:48 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- You are the fucking man...That's great info. Keep it up. ------------------ ~~~ ajc1977 ~~~ Visit my member website at http://profiles.elitefitness.com IP: Logged ajc1977 Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 836) posted August 01, 2000 07:53 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Does anyone know what the optimal times to take it should be? Morning, afternoon, etc? ------------------ ~~~ ajc1977 ~~~ Visit my member website at http://profiles.elitefitness.com IP: Logged Primo_man Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 298) posted August 01, 2000 08:42 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I'll check on the dosing. IP: Logged ajc1977 Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 836) posted August 01, 2000 08:45 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- One of our doctors on here said he took 3 per day of the 850mg version on carb load days. ------------------ ~~~ ajc1977 ~~~ Visit my member website at http://profiles.elitefitness.com IP: Logged ajc1977 Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 836) posted August 01, 2000 08:55 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Fuck it...It's only like $15.00 per box. I'll get some and let you bros know how it goes. ------------------ ~~~ ajc1977 ~~~ Visit my member website at http://profiles.elitefitness.com IP: Logged supreme Amateur Bodybuilder (Total posts: 65) posted August 02, 2000 03:27 AM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I use it all the time, see my replies to previous questions-if search is fixed (the post spelled it glucaphage) Works like vanadyl bullshit was suppossed-really good for post workout carb up and after carb depletion I. E ketgenic diets or DNP works REALLY good with effervescent creatine for between cycle pumps! Later! IP: Logged Alexej Amateur Bodybuilder (Total posts: 20) posted August 02, 2000 04:16 AM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I have Dianben850mg Metformin tabs. But everytime I use one, I get the feeling that my stomach is full, together with nausea this really sucks. what do you guys do? how do you take these tabs? Oh there is something else that could be interesting for you to know. If you use Metformin alone it doesn`t work. You can believe me, you have to use it together with INSULIN. I don`t use Insulin, but Glipizide, an oral insulin. some people use it with hGH or/and t3/t4 and have good results too. I think the reason why metformin doesn`t work alone is that it has the effect you mentioned, it makes the insulin(your body produses) work better, as a reaction you body does produce less insulin, so it works not. Use insulin, or an insulin booster, that`s better. ------------------ IP: Logged Primo_man Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 298) posted August 02, 2000 10:51 AM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- So you just take the metformin with carbs. Carbs stimulate insulin release and presto, you have metformin + insulin. You can also use it to lower blood sugar to enter ketosis more quickly, as well as for super compenstation when taking in lots of carbs. I haven't done it yet, but am assuming that Metformin would also help to keep fat gain to a minimum on a bulking cycle since it increases insulin sensitivity in muscle cells. Am I correct, has anybody had any experience with this??? Help me out bros!!! IP: Logged cm3504jm Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 156) posted August 02, 2000 11:15 AM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I'm on Glucophage right now for my NID diabetes. I take 500 mg every am and every pm. been taking them for about 3 months. My observations: I don't know why, but my BS levels increased slightly after taking for 3 months. Nothing dramatic ( about 30mg per), but it is a bitch to get them down to normal (90-100mg) I do it, but it takes a lot of cardio and watching "dry" carbs. God I love bread! Another benefit for me personally is that no matter when I take my BS reading, it varies minimally- There is no spike and it allows me to feel pretty much the same all day long. I feel it has also help me lose body fat while protecting LBM. I have gained about 18 lbs on my cycle while becoming more vascular and having my clothes hang looser. This is a great drug. The only thing is NO BOOZE whatsoever. I think anyone cycling should never do booze anyway due to the stress it places on your liver. Hope this info helps. Glucophage The chemical name for this is Meformin Hydrochloride. I heard of it from a good Spanish friend of mine called Magic. A top bodybuilder and previous Mr Spain. He showed me a Spanish product used to increase appetite in young children. He ranted and raved about it so much that I took a spoonful at his house before driving to the gym. Twenty minutes later and my blood sugar had dropped drastically and I felt ready to eat anything and everything in sight. I started pursuing it immediately. It took a while because the Spanish version of the drug was under a completely different name. I eventually found what is an antihyperglyceimic drug. Hypergylceimia is when your blood sugar goes to high which could be fatal This is not top be confused with hypoglyceimia which is the opposite. As a matter of information these tablets degrade in sunlight and need to be kept cool. This presents an issue with black market sources seeing as dealers carry these things around in their training bags for weeks on end. The same applies with glucophages sister product Insulin. The drug belongs to a group of drugs called the biguanides. A group of antihyperglyceimic drugs. Others include Buformin and Phenformin but in my opinion Metformin is the most promising in the group. These drugs increase the transport of blood sugar across the cell membrane into muscle cells. The action works by positvely effecting cellular insulin sensitivity. Metforming is a little gentler on action than the other compound which hit so hard they can bring on lactic acidosis which would be counter productive. What we are looking at is a product that enhances the effect of insulin and by now we all agree insulin is the single most anabolic agent available. This product is slowly absorbed over a six hour period with the half life being as long as 15 hours. Metformin has got to be safer than oral insulin and combined with effective insulin therapy and the right diet the results have been excellent. Each tablet is 850 mgs. The best results came with a slow build up to three tablets a day taken morning, noon and night using a three day on one day regime. This was combined with indictable insulin. The top athletes took on 1 IU per 10 1KG of bodyweight three times a day. They were careful to use the humilin act rapid S and take 10 grams of carbs and five grams of whey protein 90 minutes after administration. For example 100 1KG man would take three metformin a day. 10 IU of insulin first thing in the morning, 1090 grams Maltodextrin and 50 grams of whey 90 minutes later. This he would repeat early afternoon and early evening. The most successful subject also took 50 MCG of T3 on the days they took the metformin and 4 IU GH as two separate 2 I U shots taken mid morning and thirty minutes after training. Another product that enhances the overall effect is Creatine Monohydrate especially if combined with the amino acids Arginine, Glycine and Methionine. The worst side effects have been minor. A bad taste in the mouth and some stomach acid. This can be avoided by always taking the metforming with half a litre of water. Potentially the possibility of lactic acidosis must not be ruled out and you must be aware of the symptoms. The most obvious symptom is death which would hardly be missed by even the most focused and intensive bodybuilder. Before this irreversible loss of bodymass you will have severe cramps and stomach pains with uncontrollable sweating. A simple blood PH test at the doctors would clear up any nagging doubts. It is important to say that this is experimental material and in no way can I recommend the use of this product. The older you get the higher the risk that is not to say that every twenty year old can go crazy. Duiretics make the effects hit harder and this is a big risk area. Somehow risks always seem to come back to diuretics. The same risk enhancement appies to the female pill and even nicotinic acid. The essential point of any insulin altered therapy is that the strict dietary needs are met. Eating the right foods at the right time should become like a religion. Imagine your life depends on it. The discovery of how to use insulin correctly has without a doubt revolutionised bodybuilding. It has produces competitors twenty pounds heavier.
I have been using it on a ketogenic diet for the last month and a half to speed descent into ketosis. I am only taking 1700mg/day, 2-3 days/wk until I'm in ketosis. I haven't been using it during the carb up. Here is some info for you: Description: Metformin is an oral biguanide antidiabetic agent similar to phenformin, a drug that was withdrawn from US marketing in 1977 due to the development of lactic acidosis. The risk for this adverse reaction is considerably lower with metformin, however. Metformin represents a drug with actions that differ from, yet compliment, those of the sulfonylureas. Compared to glyburide in non-insulin-dependent diabetics, metformin was found to achieve similar glycemic control but metformin lead to a higher incidence of digestive complaints than glyburide.[713] Metformin was introduced in Europe in the 1950's but was not approved by the FDA until December 30, 1994. It is approved for use in the US for treatment of NIDDM (Type II diabetes mellitus) either as monotherapy or in combination with sulfonylureas, alpha-glucosidase inhibitors, or with insulin. Mechanism of Action: Although its mechanism of action has not been clearly determined, decreased hepatic gluconeogenesis is thought to be the primary therapeutic effect of metformin in NIDDM.[1017] In addition, metformin appears to improve utilization of glucose in skeletal muscle and adipose tissue by increasing cell membrane glucose transport. This effect may be due to improved binding of insulin to insulin receptors since metformin is not effective in diabetics without some residual functioning pancreatic islet cells.[1156] Other mechanisms may include a decreased intestinal glucose absorption, however, this has only been observed in animals.[1156] Unlike the sulfonylureas, metformin rarely causes hypoglycemia since it does not significantly change insulin concentrations. An important distinction is that sulfonylureas increase insulin secretion thus making them useful in non-obese patients with NIDDM while metformin improves insulin resistance, a common pathophysiologic finding in obese patients with NIDDM.[1156] Metformin causes a 10?20% decrease in fatty-acid oxidation and a slight increase in glucose oxidation. Unlike phenformin, metformin does not inhibit the mitochondrial oxidation of lactate unless plasma concentrations of metformin become excessive (i.e., in patients with renal failure) and/or hypoxia is present.[1018] Clinically, metformin lowers fasting and postprandial hyperglycemia. The decrease in fasting plasma glucose is approximately 25?30%. Unlike oral sulfonylureas, metformin rarely causes hypoglycemia. Thus, metformin demonstrates more of an antihyperglycemic action than a hypoglycemic action. Metformin does not cause weight gain and in fact, may cause a modest weight loss due to drug-induced anorexia. Metformin also decreases plasma VLDL triglycerides resulting in modest decreases in plasma triglycerides and total cholesterol. Patients receiving metformin show a significant improvement in hemoglobin A1c, and a tendency toward improvement in the lipid profile, especially when baseline values are abnormally elevated. Pharmacokinetics: Metformin is administered as an oral tablet. The bioavailability of metformin is 50?60%. Food decreases the extent and slightly delays the absorption of metformin, however, it is recommended to be taken with meals.[1156] Metformin is distributed rapidly into peripheral body tissues and fluids and appears to distribute slowly into erythrocytes and to a deep tissue compartment (most likely GI tissues). The highest concentrations of metformin are found in the GI tract (10 times the concentrations in the plasma) and lower concentrations in the kidney, liver, and salivary gland tissue. Metformin does not bind to liver or plasma proteins. It is not metabolized by the liver and this fact may explain why the risk of lactic acidosis is much less for metformin than for phenformin (i.e., approximately 10% of patients have an inherited defect in the ability to metabolize phenformin).[1156] Metformin is excreted by the kidneys, largely unchanged, through an active tubular process. Approximately 30% of an oral dose is excreted in the feces, presumably as unabsorbed metformin and about 90% of a dose is excreted by the kidneys within 24 hours. The plasma half-life is approx. = 6.2 hours and the blood half-life is approx. = 17.6 hours in patients with normal renal function. Half-life is increased in patients with renal impairment. Metformin is removed with hemodialysis. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- IVANHOE Amateur Bodybuilder Posts: 87 From:Mexico D.F. Registered: Feb 2000 posted October 11, 2000 12:01 AM Staff Use Only: IP: Logged -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- How long is acting? Intestinal absortion 6 hrs. Maximum concentration in plasma 27-48 minutes. Plasmatic life 1.25-1.40 hrs. Si de nos vamos a morir....que sea de algo grave. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- DocJ Pro Bodybuilder Posts: 371 From: Registered: May 2000 posted October 11, 2000 12:13 AM Staff Use Only: IP: Logged -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Yes, I used it just like AM did on the BODYOPUS diet. I used it on the carb up days also and thought my skin was going to tear with simple movements like drinking a protein shake!! I have not used it with AS yet but will have some experience in this area in a month or so... ------------------ "It's a good day to be alive, sir, It's a good day to be alive he said..." -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ajc Freak Posts: 1700 From: Registered: Apr 2000 posted October 11, 2000 12:20 AM Staff Use Only: IP: Logged -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Anibolicum...You the man- Nice post. DocJ...I haven't seen you around for a while. So, should I wait until my cycle or use it now? ------------------ Visit my website (free of all Musclehedz pictures) at http://profiles.elitefitness.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- DocJ Pro Bodybuilder Posts: 371 From: Registered: May 2000 posted October 11, 2000 12:26 AM Staff Use Only: IP: Logged -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I would wait until the cycle. You have used those compounds before correct? If you have, it's likely that you will be able to tell how effective it is...especially if EQ increases your appetite like it does to me. BTW - I'm starting up a new clinic...been busy. ------------------ "It's a good day to be alive, sir, It's a good day to be alive he said..." -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Fonz Amateur Bodybuilder Posts: 91 From:Spain(Madrid) and England Registered: Jun 2000 posted October 11, 2000 07:48 AM Staff Use Only: IP: Logged -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Instead of using Metformin, which gives my mouth a metalic taste and stomach problems, why not just use Alpha Lipoic Acid, it works much better than Metformin by increasing glucose clearance by about 40-50%, and is far safer. Basically what this means is that you could consume 40-50% more carbs(which would further increase your glycogen stores) during a cycle and not gain an ounce of fat. godspeed -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ajc Freak Posts: 1700 From: Registered: Apr 2000 posted October 11, 2000 11:23 AM Staff Use Only: IP: Logged -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- What makes you say that Alpha Lipoic Acid is more effective? Just curious. ------------------ Visit my website (free of all Musclehedz pictures) at http://profiles.elitefitness.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- DocJ Pro Bodybuilder Posts: 371 From: Registered: May 2000 posted October 11, 2000 01:44 PM Staff Use Only: IP: Logged -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I don't doubt that ALA increases glucose clearance at that rate but I've used both and my experience was that glucophage works much better. ------------------ "It's a good day to be alive, sir, It's a good day to be alive he said..." -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Primo_man Pro Bodybuilder Posts: 334 From:Bloomsburg, PA Registered: Apr 2000 posted October 11, 2000 05:37 PM Staff Use Only: IP: Logged -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I agree with the Doc, metformin is much more effective than ALA from my experiences. I used both on the ketogenic diet for carbups and for decent into ketosis and noticed an definate change when I switched from ALA to metformin. Better pumps and I decreased the time it takes to enter ketosis by a full day!!! I used 3 850mg tabs a day, sometimes 4 to enter ketosis more quickly. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Fonz Amateur Bodybuilder Posts: 91 From:Spain(Madrid) and England Registered: Jun 2000 posted October 12, 2000 07:29 AM Staff Use Only: IP: Logged -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I think that ALA is far more effective because it gives you what I call a double whammy effect. It is superior to metformin in glucose clearing(40-50% compared to 10-40%). Then, since its both fat and water soluble, it is a universal antioxidant, apart from the fact that it increases oxygen transport to the heart, which as people on gear know(gear increases blood viscosity), is something we should ben thinking about. If you like vanadyl, you'll really like glucophage. I used it during a non-AS cycle where I was taking clen, creatine, glutamine and using DD BodyOpus diet. On the carb up days I used the glucophage and literally thought my skin was going to burst my muscles were so "full." I've never used it during a cycle though. Hope this helps... have see a few qestions about Metformin on the board reciently, and decided to do a little searching to find some answers. I hope this helps. By the way, since I have recently aquired a source for this I will be using it soon and will post my results. Hope you enjoy!!! Metformin: the most effective and under-appreciated life extension drug By Ward Dean M.D. to order Metformin Metformin, an anti-diabetic biguanide drug, has recently been introduced in the United States for the treatment of non-insulin dependent diabetes (type II diabetes). In addition to its promise in treating diabetes, metformin may prove to be one of the most promising anti-aging; life extending drugs available! Metformin is chemically very similar to phenformin, an anti-diabetic drug that was discontinued in the United States by the FDA in 1976. The reason for phenformin's removal from the market was because of a number of excess deaths in diabetic patients, caused by lactic acidosis. These deaths were invariably due to its continued use in diabetic patients who had compromised kidney or liver function. No deaths were ever reported in patients who had normal kidney and liver function. Phenformin's removal from the market was greatly lamented by most diabetologists, one of who once told me "phenformin did everything! It lowered insulin, reduced blood cholesterol and triglycerides, stimulated immunity and even resulted in weight loss!" He blamed the excess deaths with phenformin's use on the "stupid docs" who continued to use it in the face of abnormal liver or kidney function. Metformin is similar to phenformin in its beneficial metabolic effects, but it is much safer, in that it has even fewer propensities to cause lactic acidosis than phenformin. One of the most universal changes with age, is a progressive loss of glucose tolerance. When this loss of glucose tolerance becomes pronounced, it is diagnosed as diabetes. Indeed the diagnostic criteria for older people are much less strict than the criteria for younger people; otherwise, nearly every senior citizen would be diagnosed as diabetic. In parallel (or perhaps, the cause) of this loss of glucose tolerance with age, is a progressive loss of insulin sensitivity, i.e. a loss of response to insulin by peripheral tissues. Metformin's mechanism of action is unlike other anti-diabetic drugs, like the sulfonylureas (e.g. Glyburide, Diabinase). The sulfonylueas act by increasing the output of insulin from the pancreas, kind of like putting the pancreas on the dining room table and going over it with a rolling pin, squeezing out whatever insulin remains in the already over worked pancreas. After a period of time, this often results in pancreatic failure, transforming a type II (non-insulin dependant) diabetic into a type 1 (insulin dependant) diabetic. Metformin, to the contrary, acts by increasing the sensitivity of peripheral tissues (like muscles) to the effects of insulin. In effect, it rejuvenates this response, restoring the effects of glucose and insulin too much younger physiological levels. Although metformin is approved only for use in type II (non insulin dependant) diabetics, I use it with a great deal of success on my type 1 (insulin dependant) diabetic patients as well. When used with insulin dependant patients, I find that they are able to dramatically reduce their doses of insulin, and more easily maintain stable levels of blood glucose. Metformin acts in a much more physiologic manner than either the sulfonylureas, or even exogensously administered (i.e. injected) insulin itself. Consequently, if rarely, if ever, causes hypoglycemia, which may often result from the use of insulin or the sulfonylureas. One potential side effect in long term users of metformin, is that it may cause malabsorption of vitamin B12, consequently, I recommend that anyone taking metformin also supplement their diet liberally with vitamin B12. Diabetes is believed by many gerontologists to be an example of accelerated or premature aging. Since nearly everyone suffers from "subclinical" diabetes (i.e. a loss of glucose tolerance with age), I recommend metformin to all my life extension patients who are over 40. I believe metformin has a profound and truly "rejuvenating effect" on glucose and insulin metabolism. Among other benefits, this results in a reduced rate of pro-aging cross linkages in collagen. Dilman (1992) lists the following benefits of phenformin, which are shared by metformin, (1) Lowers blood cholesterol, triglycerides and beta lipo-proteins (2) Reduces development of atherosclerosis (3) Reduces insulin levels (4) Increases hypothalamo-pituitary sensitivity (which declines with age) (5) Improves cellular immunity (6) Reduces incidence of chemically induced cancer in rats (7) Enhances activity of anti-cancer drugs (8) Suppresses the growth of some tumors. Finally phenformin (and presumably metformin) increased the maximum lifespan of experimental animals. Consequently, in view of its record of safety and paucity of side effects, its physiological mode of action, and broad range of beneficial effects, I strongly encourage all of my patients over the age of 40 to take 500mg of metformin twice a day. ALL INFORMATION IS EDUCATIONAL AND SHOULD NOT REPLACE THE ADVICE OF YOUR PHYSICIAN IP: Logged ajc1977 Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 836) posted August 01, 2000 07:48 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- You are the fucking man...That's great info. Keep it up. ------------------ ~~~ ajc1977 ~~~ Visit my member website at http://profiles.elitefitness.com IP: Logged ajc1977 Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 836) posted August 01, 2000 07:53 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Does anyone know what the optimal times to take it should be? Morning, afternoon, etc? ------------------ ~~~ ajc1977 ~~~ Visit my member website at http://profiles.elitefitness.com IP: Logged Primo_man Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 298) posted August 01, 2000 08:42 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I'll check on the dosing. IP: Logged ajc1977 Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 836) posted August 01, 2000 08:45 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- One of our doctors on here said he took 3 per day of the 850mg version on carb load days. ------------------ ~~~ ajc1977 ~~~ Visit my member website at http://profiles.elitefitness.com IP: Logged ajc1977 Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 836) posted August 01, 2000 08:55 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Fuck it...It's only like $15.00 per box. I'll get some and let you bros know how it goes. ------------------ ~~~ ajc1977 ~~~ Visit my member website at http://profiles.elitefitness.com IP: Logged supreme Amateur Bodybuilder (Total posts: 65) posted August 02, 2000 03:27 AM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I use it all the time, see my replies to previous questions-if search is fixed (the post spelled it glucaphage) Works like vanadyl bullshit was suppossed-really good for post workout carb up and after carb depletion I. E ketgenic diets or DNP works REALLY good with effervescent creatine for between cycle pumps! Later! IP: Logged Alexej Amateur Bodybuilder (Total posts: 20) posted August 02, 2000 04:16 AM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I have Dianben850mg Metformin tabs. But everytime I use one, I get the feeling that my stomach is full, together with nausea this really sucks. what do you guys do? how do you take these tabs? Oh there is something else that could be interesting for you to know. If you use Metformin alone it doesn`t work. You can believe me, you have to use it together with INSULIN. I don`t use Insulin, but Glipizide, an oral insulin. some people use it with hGH or/and t3/t4 and have good results too. I think the reason why metformin doesn`t work alone is that it has the effect you mentioned, it makes the insulin(your body produses) work better, as a reaction you body does produce less insulin, so it works not. Use insulin, or an insulin booster, that`s better. ------------------ IP: Logged Primo_man Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 298) posted August 02, 2000 10:51 AM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- So you just take the metformin with carbs. Carbs stimulate insulin release and presto, you have metformin + insulin. You can also use it to lower blood sugar to enter ketosis more quickly, as well as for super compenstation when taking in lots of carbs. I haven't done it yet, but am assuming that Metformin would also help to keep fat gain to a minimum on a bulking cycle since it increases insulin sensitivity in muscle cells. Am I correct, has anybody had any experience with this??? Help me out bros!!! IP: Logged cm3504jm Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 156) posted August 02, 2000 11:15 AM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I'm on Glucophage right now for my NID diabetes. I take 500 mg every am and every pm. been taking them for about 3 months. My observations: I don't know why, but my BS levels increased slightly after taking for 3 months. Nothing dramatic ( about 30mg per), but it is a bitch to get them down to normal (90-100mg) I do it, but it takes a lot of cardio and watching "dry" carbs. God I love bread! Another benefit for me personally is that no matter when I take my BS reading, it varies minimally- There is no spike and it allows me to feel pretty much the same all day long. I feel it has also help me lose body fat while protecting LBM. I have gained about 18 lbs on my cycle while becoming more vascular and having my clothes hang looser. This is a great drug. The only thing is NO BOOZE whatsoever. I think anyone cycling should never do booze anyway due to the stress it places on your liver. Hope this info helps. Glucophage The chemical name for this is Meformin Hydrochloride. I heard of it from a good Spanish friend of mine called Magic. A top bodybuilder and previous Mr Spain. He showed me a Spanish product used to increase appetite in young children. He ranted and raved about it so much that I took a spoonful at his house before driving to the gym. Twenty minutes later and my blood sugar had dropped drastically and I felt ready to eat anything and everything in sight. I started pursuing it immediately. It took a while because the Spanish version of the drug was under a completely different name. I eventually found what is an antihyperglyceimic drug. Hypergylceimia is when your blood sugar goes to high which could be fatal This is not top be confused with hypoglyceimia which is the opposite. As a matter of information these tablets degrade in sunlight and need to be kept cool. This presents an issue with black market sources seeing as dealers carry these things around in their training bags for weeks on end. The same applies with glucophages sister product Insulin. The drug belongs to a group of drugs called the biguanides. A group of antihyperglyceimic drugs. Others include Buformin and Phenformin but in my opinion Metformin is the most promising in the group. These drugs increase the transport of blood sugar across the cell membrane into muscle cells. The action works by positvely effecting cellular insulin sensitivity. Metforming is a little gentler on action than the other compound which hit so hard they can bring on lactic acidosis which would be counter productive. What we are looking at is a product that enhances the effect of insulin and by now we all agree insulin is the single most anabolic agent available. This product is slowly absorbed over a six hour period with the half life being as long as 15 hours. Metformin has got to be safer than oral insulin and combined with effective insulin therapy and the right diet the results have been excellent. Each tablet is 850 mgs. The best results came with a slow build up to three tablets a day taken morning, noon and night using a three day on one day regime. This was combined with indictable insulin. The top athletes took on 1 IU per 10 1KG of bodyweight three times a day. They were careful to use the humilin act rapid S and take 10 grams of carbs and five grams of whey protein 90 minutes after administration. For example 100 1KG man would take three metformin a day. 10 IU of insulin first thing in the morning, 1090 grams Maltodextrin and 50 grams of whey 90 minutes later. This he would repeat early afternoon and early evening. The most successful subject also took 50 MCG of T3 on the days they took the metformin and 4 IU GH as two separate 2 I U shots taken mid morning and thirty minutes after training. Another product that enhances the overall effect is Creatine Monohydrate especially if combined with the amino acids Arginine, Glycine and Methionine. The worst side effects have been minor. A bad taste in the mouth and some stomach acid. This can be avoided by always taking the metforming with half a litre of water. Potentially the possibility of lactic acidosis must not be ruled out and you must be aware of the symptoms. The most obvious symptom is death which would hardly be missed by even the most focused and intensive bodybuilder. Before this irreversible loss of bodymass you will have severe cramps and stomach pains with uncontrollable sweating. A simple blood PH test at the doctors would clear up any nagging doubts. It is important to say that this is experimental material and in no way can I recommend the use of this product. The older you get the higher the risk that is not to say that every twenty year old can go crazy. Duiretics make the effects hit harder and this is a big risk area. Somehow risks always seem to come back to diuretics. The same risk enhancement appies to the female pill and even nicotinic acid. The essential point of any insulin altered therapy is that the strict dietary needs are met. Eating the right foods at the right time should become like a religion. Imagine your life depends on it. The discovery of how to use insulin correctly has without a doubt revolutionised bodybuilding. It has produces competitors twenty pounds heavier.
Wow that quote was long.
I'm interested in hearing form more people with actual experience with metformin / glucophage.
Also, as mentioned by the bro above I have also read somewhere that metformin can interfere with HGH utilization. Can anybody comment on this? If so, would it be better to use Alpha Lipoic Acid over metformin, assuming you're a fraidy cat and don't want to inject insulin?
I'm interested in hearing form more people with actual experience with metformin / glucophage.
Also, as mentioned by the bro above I have also read somewhere that metformin can interfere with HGH utilization. Can anybody comment on this? If so, would it be better to use Alpha Lipoic Acid over metformin, assuming you're a fraidy cat and don't want to inject insulin?
Never Give UP
New member
Fresh Input?
Bump. Any Fresh Input here?
Bump. Any Fresh Input here?
befor 1 day i start Glucophage 500 two time per day
and after Reserach i found i have to increess the dosage to 1500
but im wording ?
how Glucophage work !! i mean some people can get fat when they use it and other people can get mass and get them into ketosis fast .. can anyone explain please
and about monitor blood sugar levels how much is Low ?
im trying to get into ketosis
Thanks
and after Reserach i found i have to increess the dosage to 1500
but im wording ?
how Glucophage work !! i mean some people can get fat when they use it and other people can get mass and get them into ketosis fast .. can anyone explain please
and about monitor blood sugar levels how much is Low ?
im trying to get into ketosis
Thanks
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