Any scientific data

[strong island]

That proves winstrol aids in blocking progesterone. I can't seem to find any objective data saying that stanozol is a progesterone antagonist. The only thing I found is an article by Duchaine stating that Bill Roberts recommended it.

Does anyone know the reasoning for this belief?

 

[Zyglamail]

I dont have the abstract handy but there is I believe only one that shows winny has about the same binding affinity to the PR that progesterone does. Its been posted here on EF in the past.

 

[HUCKLEBERRY FINNaplex]

Ellis AJ, Cawston TE, Mackie EJ.

Rheumatology Research Unit, Addenbrooke's Hospital, Cambridge, UK.

The anabolic steroid stanozolol stimulates the production of prostaglandin E2 (PGE2) and the matrix metalloproteinases collagenase and stromelysin in human skin fibroblasts but not in rheumatoid synovial fibroblasts. The basis for these differential responses was investigated at the levels of DNA synthesis and steroid receptor binding. Stanozolol inhibited fibroblast growth factor (FGF)-stimulated DNA synthesis in both the skin and synovial fibroblasts, showing that both cell types were capable of responding to the compound. Competitive binding assays indicated that stanozolol bound specifically to both the skin and synovial fibroblasts. Binding of stanozolol to both cell types could be partially displaced by progesterone, indicating that stanozolol binds to the progesterone receptor. Immunocytochemical studies confirmed the presence of progesterone receptors on skin and synovial fibroblasts. However, progesterone failed to elicit any response with respect to collagenase production in either cell type. Nortestosterone, dexamethasone and 17 beta-oestradiol had no effect on binding of stanozolol to either cell type. These results indicate that the inhibition of DNA synthesis by stanozolol is elicited through the progesterone receptor. The effects of stanozolol on collagenase and PGE2 production are mediated by a different receptor, present on skin but not synovial fibroblasts, and as yet unidentified.

 

[strong island]

Here is that abstract:

http://boards.elitefitness.com/foru...id=11697&highlight=winstrol+progesterone+deca

I wonder where this technique of using winstrol came from. Maybe Bill Roberts?

Here is a Q&A from Bill Roberts:
"Winstrol and Deca are a logical combination because nandrolone (Deca Durabolin) is effective at the androgen receptor and stanozolol (Winstrol) is effective in non-AR mediated mechanisms. Furthermore, stanozolol binds to the progesterone receptor but is not progestogenic, whereas nandrolone is progestogenic. Thus, WINSTROL MAY VERY WELL BLOCK THE PROGESTOGENIC EFFECT of Deca that can lead to bloating, gyno, and/or impotence."

Note the use of the word "MAY"...so far from what I have seen this is not proven.

I keep seeing words like "may" and "suspected" in all of the articles I have read.

So technically this is just a theory. I realize many serious AAS users say they can tell a difference, so it most likely does help in some...but it is still not proven.

I am troubled by seeing posts (probably teenagers) to someone asking advice, stating to use Winstrol because it WILL block the progesterone sides. Deca seems to be very popular for new users.

But when I see post from Vets and mods (like Zyglamail Huck etc) you see important words like "helps" or "may."

I also see posts saying that Deca "turns" into Progesterone or "is" progesterone...These are also false statements. I even seen a post saying that winstrol IS a progesterone antagonist.

This board is great because of the vets and mods who know their shit. I have learned a lot from these guys. But misinformation is dangerous on a board like this which deals with serious issues. Especially when we have new users taking every post for fact.


Shit...there is nothing worse than a 19 year old running around with tits

Just my .02

 

[HUCKLEBERRY FINNaplex]

Very good point SI...You have to remember fella's,that a lot of these ideas are THEORETICAL,based on what pieces of the scientific puzzle we're able to piece together,sometimes they turn out to work to a tee,others,they turn out not to add up to our expectations.We,as bodybuilders are guinea pigs of sorts,constantly modifying and evolutionizing.The key is self experimentation,CAREFULLY.Any one of us can be wrong,and often times are.Even greats like Duchaine and Roberts have made numerous mistakes,but that is part of the learning process.Be careful on the advice you give out as FACT,because with differences in genetic response/sensitivity,no two individuals may react the same to identical formulations.All we can do is get a 'generalized consensus',and that comes from the feedback of YOU,the bodybuilding/experimenting individual.