Another question for Fonz

[supreme]

Another question for Fonz - unless he's banned again?

Fonz:

Several weeks ago you recommended that I could use 10mg /day for 2 days of Zaditen to up regulate beta-receptors. My question is how much to use at one time:? I usually use 3 /mg at bedtime since it makes me drowsy. Also after the 2 day high dosage what do you recommend for a maintainance dose to keep clen or ephedrine working??

Thanks for the help!

S

 

[Fonz]

Re: Another question for Fonz - unless he's banned again?

Fonz:

Several weeks ago you recommended that I could use 10mg /day for 2 days of Zaditen to up regulate beta-receptors. My question is how much to use at one time:? I usually use 3 /mg at bedtime since it makes me drowsy. Also after the 2 day high dosage what do you recommend for a maintainance dose to keep clen or ephedrine working??

Thanks for the help!

S

4mg/day of ketotifen(Zaditen) is enough to keep the Beta-2 adrenoreceptos from burning out due to the Clenbuterol after the high dosage phase.

For ECA, this is only 2mg/day, as ECA is not a selective Beta-2 agonist.

 

[supreme]

Re: Another question for Fonz - unless he's banned again?

Thanks!

And welcome back!

 

[georgie24]

Re: Another question for Fonz - unless he's banned again?

true that..welcome back

 

[jubei]

Re: Another question for Fonz - unless he's banned again?

^^ yeah that was moronic calling eviction fat. BTW there is no way in hell you are 187 @ 5'9''. You wanna compare abs with someone, i'll have pics up in 2 weeks or less.

 

[Koivu_11]

Re: Another question for Fonz - unless he's banned again?

what the fuck.. I just read this thread and honestly, I'm sold now. Fonz was really an asshole. I liked the way he helped people and etc but down the road the only thing he's able to do his stirring shit and locking down threads...

I was happy that he came back, but now I see that why he's been banned.

 

[jubei]

Re: Another question for Fonz - unless he's banned again?

omega, why did you delete your post?

 

[SCOTTY-TWO-HOTTY]

Re: Another question for Fonz - unless he's banned again?

Can someone fill in the blanks for me here I just chimed into this thread want to know WTF went on???

Thanks,
Scott.

 

[georgie24]

Re: Another question for Fonz - unless he's banned again?

nothing really bro. fonz is just catching some flack, he offended some people a while back. the drama should cease soon as fonz is back better than ever. i dont think fonz will get caught up in useless pissing matches for some time to come

 

[SCOTTY-TWO-HOTTY]

Re: Another question for Fonz - unless he's banned again?

Cool...

Thanks Bro.

 

[Deleted member 33117]

Re: Another question for Fonz - unless he's banned again?

george, agreed. Fonz catches alot more flack than he deserves. He has a solid knowledge base and provides alot of useful information concerning various anabolic drugs.

 

[jubei]

Re: Another question for Fonz - unless he's banned again?

Fonz has tons to offer the board with a wealth of knowledge, but for some reason he is ruining that by acting like a fucking idiot. Why I have no idea why, such a smart guy should know better.

 

[OMEGA]

Re: Another question for Fonz - unless he's banned again?

omega, why did you delete your post?

well its because I really like Fonz alot

and sometimes I disagree with the way he "handles things"

and I editited the post cus in reality all of us are really good people that ocassionaly get fired up and say things we really don't mean......


I still can't figure out how Fonz get into it with Needsize, or a couple of others, and vice versa and really I don;t wannw know


I think its more important for us to push the envelpoe of knowledge not each other


I mean look at how much good came form all these board and the best is yet to come


I can tell its a hunch

 

[jubei]

Re: Another question for Fonz - unless he's banned again?

I respect fonz alot too, thats why his recent stupidity is bothering me so much.

Fonz, you're better than that, stop making yourself look like an asshole.

 

[digger]

Re: Another question for Fonz - unless he's banned again?

Omega, I'm glad you deleted those two posts, but it would have been even better to not bring up that thread in the first place. If Fonz is your friend, don't drag him into threads like that one. He's better off ignoring them and you should respect that.

Jubei, I hope he heard you the first time. If he didn't, I doubt that repeating yourself will help.

Let's move on.

 

[jcp2]

Fonz always seemed look like good people to me, but i never get involved in nonsense, or at least try not too, lol. I always thought he got attacked as much as he did the attacking, but i don't reallly post much over here. I sure as hell like to know where to find him though if i have questions, glad he is back here.

 

[needsize]

fonz and I got into it as he was using mod powers to bully people, so when I said something, I became a target. Even after he lost his mod-ship, he continued with me, even making several public threats to use my personal info to "destroy me"
If he can stop constantly insulting everyone who disagrees with him, then I am more than happy to let it drop, but that doesnt seem to be the way things are heading, from what I've seen

 

[digger]

Enough.

Print this out and stick in on your monitor:

BYGONES
​

There's a famous line from an old song: "Cette animal est tres mechant; quond on l'attaque, il se defend." Which translates as: "What a naughty beast -- when you attack it, it defends itself!"

To spell things out:

- It's time to bury that finaject post, which is from FOUR YEARS AGO. It's starting to smell.

- If you're old enough to post here you're old enough to argue like an adult, not a nine-year old. If you have a factual point to make, go for it -- but calling someone "amoeba brain" while you're doing it does not help your case. Not ever.

- If all else fails just stay out of each others' way. We gave Fonz some time to cool off, so logically it's someone else's turn. Take the hint.

 

[GoldenDelicious]

Re: Another question for Fonz - unless he's banned again?

4mg/day of ketotifen(Zaditen) is enough to keep the Beta-2 adrenoreceptos from burning out due to the Clenbuterol after the high dosage phase.

For ECA, this is only 2mg/day, as ECA is not a selective Beta-2 agonist.

why are you talking about beta 2 receptors.

 

[Fonz]

Re: Another question for Fonz - unless he's banned again?

why are you talking about beta 2 receptors.

Ketotifen an H2(Histamine) antagonist up-regulates the Beta-2 receptors.

It's the only drug available to BB'ers that can achieve this.

With the addition of Ketotifen at 2-6mg/day depending on wether Clen or an ECA is used, you can continue using each combination indefinately, as the beta-2 adrenoreceptors will not downregulate thanks to the ketotifen.

Ephedrine = unselective Beta-adrenoreceptor agonist. 43% Beta-2's, 37% Beta-3's and 20% Beta-1's.

After about 12 weeks, the Beta-2's responsible for Ephedrine's main action downregulate, so if youa dd ketotifen you can up-regulate them, and keep on the combination.

With Clenbuterol, a selective Beta-2 adrenoreceptor aganist, the downregualtion is even more marked. After about 2 weeks, the beta-2's downregulate and the Clen ceases to work. Adding 6mg Ketotifen/day upregulates the receptors and lets you use Clen for up to 6 weeks.

 

[supreme]

Holy Hi-jacked thread Batman!!!!

I just asked Fonz a simple question and the next 14 posts were about his past problems. Thank god we are finally back to the original question; upregulation of beta-receptors.

GD I know you have a great pharm background, do you have anything else to add?

I plan using the Ketotifen, taurine and T3 to extend the effect of clen for several weeks to help cut up for vacation - should work awesome with var & GH

Thanks again for the help!

S

 

[GoldenDelicious]

Re: Another question for Fonz - unless he's banned again?

Ketotifen an H2(Histamine) antagonist up-regulates the Beta-2 receptors.

It's the only drug available to BB'ers that can achieve this.

With the addition of Ketotifen at 2-6mg/day depending on wether Clen or an ECA is used, you can continue using each combination indefinately, as the beta-2 adrenoreceptors will not downregulate thanks to the ketotifen.

Ephedrine = unselective Beta-adrenoreceptor agonist. 43% Beta-2's, 37% Beta-3's and 20% Beta-1's.

After about 12 weeks, the Beta-2's responsible for Ephedrine's main action downregulate, so if youa dd ketotifen you can up-regulate them, and keep on the combination.

With Clenbuterol, a selective Beta-2 adrenoreceptor aganist, the downregualtion is even more marked. After about 2 weeks, the beta-2's downregulate and the Clen ceases to work. Adding 6mg Ketotifen/day upregulates the receptors and lets you use Clen for up to 6 weeks.

yes well thats all very interesting, but again, why are we talking about beta 2 adrenoceptors? what therapeutic response are we trying to achieve?

 

[GoldenDelicious]

Holy Hi-jacked thread Batman!!!!

I just asked Fonz a simple question and the next 14 posts were about his past problems. Thank god we are finally back to the original question; upregulation of beta-receptors.

GD I know you have a great pharm background, do you have anything else to add?

I plan using the Ketotifen, taurine and T3 to extend the effect of clen for several weeks to help cut up for vacation - should work awesome with var & GH

Thanks again for the help!

S

sure thing im getting to it. im just curious to know why anyone would want to upregulate or downregulate the beta 2 adrenoceptor in the context of fat loss, since the beta 2 adrenoceptor is not accepted to have a significant role in energy metabolism. a quick hunt around on the net (cause im lazy) gives:

-snip-
b2-receptors are also mainly postsynaptic and are located on a number of tissues including blood vessels, bronchi, GIT, skeletal muscle, liver and mast cell. Activation results in vasodilatation, bronchodilation, relaxation of the GIT, glycogenolysis in the liver, tremor in skeletal muscle and inhibition of histamine release from mast cells.

b3-receptors are expressed predominately in adipose tissue activation is proposed to be involved with noradrenaline induced changes in energy metabolism via lipolysis and thermogenesis.
-snip-

so before i even beging to pick apart the info that fonz has put forth (which in case anyone hasnt picked up on i treat as being highly highly suspect, because fonz has been horrendously wrong about even basic physiological concepts in the past) i just wanted to know why we are talking about an adrenoceptor subtype which is not associated with the effect that i suspected was desired ie that being fatloss

cheers

 

[Fonz]

sure thing im getting to it. im just curious to know why anyone would want to upregulate or downregulate the beta 2 adrenoceptor in the context of fat loss, since the beta 2 adrenoceptor is not accepted to have a significant role in energy metabolism. a quick hunt around on the net (cause im lazy) gives:

-snip-
b2-receptors are also mainly postsynaptic and are located on a number of tissues including blood vessels, bronchi, GIT, skeletal muscle, liver and mast cell. Activation results in vasodilatation, bronchodilation, relaxation of the GIT, glycogenolysis in the liver, tremor in skeletal muscle and inhibition of histamine release from mast cells.

b3-receptors are expressed predominately in adipose tissue activation is proposed to be involved with noradrenaline induced changes in energy metabolism via lipolysis and thermogenesis.
-snip-

so before i even beging to pick apart the info that fonz has put forth (which in case anyone hasnt picked up on i treat as being highly highly suspect, because fonz has been horrendously wrong about even basic physiological concepts in the past) i just wanted to know why we are talking about an adrenoceptor subtype which is not associated with the effect that i suspected was desired ie that being fatloss

cheers

"why anyone would want to upregulate or downregulate the beta 2 adrenoceptor in the context of fat loss, since the beta 2 adrenoceptor is not accepted to have a significant role in energy metabolism. a quick hunt around on the net (cause im lazy) gives:"


Does Clenbuterol burn fat? yes.

What Beta-adrenoreceptor does it activate EXCLUSIVELY? The Beta-2

How does Clenbuterol burn fat? By increasing body temperature through the Beta-2 receptor.

Ephjedrine does the same thing, except it's an UNSELECTIVE Beta-adrenorecptor agonist, therefore it's less powerful than Clenbuterol, which is a SELECTIVE Beta-2 Adrenoreceptor agonist. Also Ephedrine activates the Beta-3 receptor, reason why it never stops working. But Clenbuterol DOES.

I think you need to go back to pharmacy school and re-learn the concepts of the CNS and the adrenergic system, because you just made a mistake of gigantic proportions.

 

[supreme]

Guys:

thanks for the help, hope I didn't start another war - just seeking info; I never get involved in B.S. if I can help it. Hence that's why I only have 991 posts in 4 years, I just come to learn.

GD; in defense of Fonz its not his concept using Zaditen & T3 to extend the effectiveness of Clen. The late, great Dan Duchaine proposed the idea back in the old Muscle Media (when it was the best - beore that dick Phillips turned it into an EAS catalog and a pretty boy fashion mag!) I know Fonz had some additional info and some empirical experience in effective dosing schedules but if you have other info or ideas I am always open to intelligent posts. I have found no one person can have all the answers and we tend to use many drugs, supplements etc. for uses other than they were intended so often there are not peer reviewed research articles and studies; so we have to rely on trial & error and empirical results of ourselves and others.

Anyway, please feel free to debate the use of clen issue, I always believe the more info, the better for everyone.

Thanks!

S

 

[Lestat]

this is getting good!

 

[bicepts101]

^GD...your rebutle please...

 

[nbk]

I thought clen affected b3 too?

Not much of an issue though b3's are not so important in humans. Clen is anabolic for animals.

 

[GoldenDelicious]

fonz im going to keep this impersonal and precise because your argument is, well, what can i say....true to form youre nothing if not predictable.

so, if you want to argue, first id like to see you justify your comments. im a pharmacist, a huge upside of which is that people take me at my word. your word on the other hand is worth...little. so try to back it up please.

ill even let you in on my game plan (arent i a nice bloke?). its really quite simple. im going to get you talking and let you expose your own ignorance. and let me say from the outset, your comments in this thread have already condemned you. but anyway, here you go:

Does Clenbuterol burn fat? yes.

thanks for pointing that out. i dont know what the point of this statement is. are you coaching your audience to agree with everything you say? trying to sound intelligent by repeating the obvious? but hey, thanks man. i didnt know that. clenbuterol burns fat? revolutionary.

What Beta-adrenoreceptor does it activate EXCLUSIVELY? The Beta-2

please back up your assertation of the specificity of clenbuterol on the beta 2 adrenergic receptor. in particular could you please explain why an agent with beta 2 specificity has side effects attributable to agonism of the other beta adrenoceptors (those being of course, 1, 3 and 4) for instance i would like you to talk about muscle tremor.

ill even give you a tip. this is the most important question in this reply. please answer it well.

How does Clenbuterol burn fat? By increasing body temperature through the Beta-2 receptor.

please explain the biochemical basis for this effect. (this is the 2nd most important question in this reply. do a good job on it, mate. good luck hehe )

Ephjedrine does the same thing, except it's an UNSELECTIVE Beta-adrenorecptor agonist, therefore it's less powerful than Clenbuterol, which is a SELECTIVE Beta-2 Adrenoreceptor agonist. Also Ephedrine activates the Beta-3 receptor, reason why it never stops working. But Clenbuterol DOES.

ok theres a couple of things id like you to explain. why does ephedrines non specificity make it any less powerful for fat burning?

also, could you also explain why there is no downregulation of the beta 3 receptor, especially given that 1) ephedrine loses efficacy over prolonged exposure (kind of indicates downregulation, wouldnt you say?) and 2) that downregulation of receptors is a body wide phenomenon that no receptors are resistant to?

I think you need to go back to pharmacy school and re-learn the concepts of the CNS and the adrenergic system, because you just made a mistake of gigantic proportions.

hm well i think you need to go to pharmacy school in the first place if for no other reason but to learn that there isnt actually an adrenergic system. i think youre talking about the sympathetic nervous system. but anyway, i dont want to distract you. just reply, IN DETAIL, to the questions i posed. thanks.

edit: oh by the way, some of the things i have asked you to look up (not saying which hehe) are just for the purpose of wasting your time while you try to hunt down info to throw at me. have fun

 

[Lestat]

evil man.. evil.

 

[Fonz]

fonz im going to keep this impersonal and precise because your argument is, well, what can i say....true to form youre nothing if not predictable.

so, if you want to argue, first id like to see you justify your comments. im a pharmacist, a huge upside of which is that people take me at my word. your word on the other hand is worth...little. so try to back it up please.

ill even let you in on my game plan (arent i a nice bloke?). its really quite simple. im going to get you talking and let you expose your own ignorance. and let me say from the outset, your comments in this thread have already condemned you. but anyway, here you go:



thanks for pointing that out. i dont know what the point of this statement is. are you coaching your audience to agree with everything you say? trying to sound intelligent by repeating the obvious? but hey, thanks man. i didnt know that. clenbuterol burns fat? revolutionary.


please back up your assertation of the specificity of clenbuterol on the beta 2 adrenergic receptor. in particular could you please explain why an agent with beta 2 specificity has side effects attributable to agonism of the other beta adrenoceptors (those being of course, 1, 3 and 4) for instance i would like you to talk about muscle tremor.

ill even give you a tip. this is the most important question in this reply. please answer it well.



please explain the biochemical basis for this effect. (this is the 2nd most important question in this reply. do a good job on it, mate. good luck hehe

Question 1+2

1: Med Sci Sports Exerc. 1995 Aug;27(8):1118-21. Related Articles, Links


Clenbuterol: a substitute for anabolic steroids?

Prather ID, Brown DE, North P, Wilson JR.

Department of Family Medicine, University of North Texas Health Science Center at Forth Worth 76107; USA.

Clenbuterol is a recently popular drug used by athletes in many sports for its purported anabolic effects and reduction of subcutaneous fat. It is a beta-2 (beta 2) agonist prescribed overseas as a bronchodilator, but not approved for use in this country.
Publication Types:
Review
Review, Tutorial

PMID: 7476054 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Muscle tremor happen due to TOO MUCH adrenaline floating around your system. Think of adrenalne as bio-chemical energy. The muscles can only accept a certain amount. Now, Clenbuterol mimics adrenaline by activating the Beta-2 receptor(It is used by asthmatics and has been used for decades), so if you where senitive to too high adrenaline levels, your muscle-neural connections would overload with too much bio-chemical energy, and your muscle would twitch.



ill


ok theres a couple of things id like you to explain. why does ephedrines non specificity make it any less powerful for fat burning?

Question3:

Ephedrine unlike Clenbuterol which exclusively activates the Beta-2 Receptor and raises your body temperature, ephedrine is an unselective agonist which targets the Beta-1's,2's amd 3's. The % is 43% B2 and 37% B3. If you haven't read the literature regardung that I suggest you find it yourself. Therefore, there is quite a difference in the agomism of the Beta-2 receptor from ephedrine in regards to that of Clenbuterol: 100/43 = 232% greater Well, that's quite a big difference in terms of raising the body temperature.
But epehdrine also actuvates the Beta-3, which itn turns activates BAT, which in turn dissipates fat for energy. However, most adults have little BAT in their bodies so that aspect of Ephedrine's beta-3 agonist peoperties isn't very strong. This Beta-3 property will never downregulate however, as the Beta-3 receptors never do, which make Ephedrine a better drug than clenbuterol in the long-term.



also, could you also explain why there is no downregulation of the beta 3 receptor, especially given that 1) ephedrine loses efficacy over prolonged exposure (kind of indicates downregulation, wouldnt you say?) and 2) that downregulation of receptors is a body wide phenomenon that no receptors are resistant to?

Question4)
The reason why ephedrine loses efficacy after prolonged exposure is that the beta-2 adrenorecptors that ephedrine activates at the outside of the cell, translocate inwards. Therfore, since they are INSIDE the cell and not outside Ephedrine cannot activate them, and nothing happens.
The beta-3 receptor activates BAT tissue. BAT tissue is brown fat with massive amounts of mitochondria, that just burns fat for fuel through thermogenisis. When young, you have a considerable amount of Beta-3 adrenoreceptors, but over time we begin to lose them. However, once we reach maturity they stay fixed. No matter how much you stimulate them they will, not downregulate, because your BAT tissue can just keep on dissipating energy via thermogenesis. The Beta-2's however can't. The more you keep stimulating tyhem, the more adrenaline floods your system and the more dangerous it becomes for you. So, the bodies feed-back loop for this is to translocate the Beta-2 receptors to the inside of the cell to avoid further stimulation from the outside of the cell and allow the dangerous levels of adrenaline that have already been built up to subside to normal levels.


hm well i think you need to go to pharmacy school in the first place if for no other reason but to learn that there isnt actually an adrenergic system. i think youre talking about the sympathetic nervous system. but anyway, i dont want to distract you. just reply, IN DETAIL, to the questions i posed. thanks.

edit: oh by the way, some of the things i have asked you to look up (not saying which hehe) are just for the purpose of wasting your time while you try to hunt down info to throw at me. have fun

Didn't need to hunt down anything. I have a database of 10,000 journals at my disposal. But it's been fun erradicating you once again. Took me a whole 5 minutes.

 

[GoldenDelicious]

Didn't need to hunt down anything. I have a database of 10,000 journals at my disposal. But it's been fun erradicating you once again. Took me a whole 5 minutes.

eradicating? interesting use of the word. perhaps its your diet of bug spray during your DNP phases thats got your mind pointing in that direction.

now look, i said to reply, IN DETAIL, to the questions i posed. giving a quick link which says something kind of in the area of what we are talking about isnt answering a question.

ill put it bluntly: you didnt answer the question. if this was an test (and it is hehe) you would fail badly.

ill give you an example of why your replies are not acceptable. i asked, initially: please back up your assertation of the specificity of clenbuterol on the beta 2 adrenergic receptor. in particular could you please explain why an agent with beta 2 specificity has side effects attributable to agonism of the other beta adrenoceptors (those being of course, 1, 3 and 4) for instance i would like you to talk about muscle tremor.

and you replied:

Question 1+2

1: Med Sci Sports Exerc. 1995 Aug;27(8):1118-21. Related Articles, Links


Clenbuterol: a substitute for anabolic steroids?

Prather ID, Brown DE, North P, Wilson JR.

Department of Family Medicine, University of North Texas Health Science Center at Forth Worth 76107; USA.

Clenbuterol is a recently popular drug used by athletes in many sports for its purported anabolic effects and reduction of subcutaneous fat. It is a beta-2 (beta 2) agonist prescribed overseas as a bronchodilator, but not approved for use in this country.
Publication Types:
Review
Review, Tutorial

PMID: 7476054 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Muscle tremor happen due to TOO MUCH adrenaline floating around your system. Think of adrenalne as bio-chemical energy. The muscles can only accept a certain amount. Now, Clenbuterol mimics adrenaline by activating the Beta-2 receptor(It is used by asthmatics and has been used for decades), so if you where senitive to too high adrenaline levels, your muscle-neural connections would overload with too much bio-chemical energy, and your muscle would twitch.

now as you can see there is no mention of the word specificity in your reply (deduct 10 points) and you try to make it sound as if it is ONLY a beta 2 agonist, when clearly, there has been no exclusion of its agonism on the other adrenoceptor subtypes (deduct another 10 points).

now you also said to think of adrenaline as "biochemical energy". sorry mate, its not, its just an agonist of all the adrenoceptors (hence their names) (deduct another 10 points) and you repeat that clenbuterol is used for asthmatics (deduct 10 points for repetition of superfluous information). then you say something about overloading your muscle-neuro-connections with energy (deduct 20 points for pure crap talking) in explanation for muscle twitching. you also insinuate that some sort of sensitivity to adrenaline is needed for this to occur, which is interesting, since we are ALL sensitive to adrenaline (it is a naturally occurring substance) and tremor due to clenbuterol administration is seen throughout the using population, not in small sensitive groups (deduct 30 points)

to make things a little worse, you clearly stated in your previous posts that clenbuterol burns fat through the beta 2 receptor (even though the beta 2 receptor is not attached to any adipose tissue) and did not mention any biochemical cascade post beta 2 receptor activation, but now are seeming to attribute the action of the drug on the induction of a non specific agent (adrenaline), which is contrary to your previous statements. (deduct 30 points and bonus kick in the balls)

so please, go back to your journals, have a better look, come back and try again with some decent replies.

by the way, i find it truly amazing that you have SO MUCH knowledge at your fingertips but are still so damn stupid.

 

[jubei]

jubei goes to the cupboard, grabs some popcorn, throws it in the microwave and gets back to the computer monitor to finish the show.

 

[bicepts101]

dude GD why dont u eduacate us and tell us how clenbuteral accually burns fat. quit the bullshiting and get to the point. respond with what is the truth and a question of why he thinks what he thinks. this is a good argument but let get on with it insead of acting like a teacher bro. come on. cause alot of us are confused now.....so unconfuse us man wtf

EDIT:i want to add in that i appologize for jumping in, i just want to hear the bottom of this story....

 

[GoldenDelicious]

dude GD why dont u eduacate us and tell us how clenbuteral accually burns fat. quit the bullshiting and get to the point. respond with what is the truth and a question of why he thinks what he thinks. this is a good argument but let get on with it insead of acting like a teacher bro. come on. cause alot of us are confused now.....so unconfuse us man wtf

EDIT:i want to add in that i appologize for jumping in, i just want to hear the bottom of this story....

bicepts101 im not acting like a teacher, im acting like a smug asshole. get it right, ok

the point of this whole thing isnt about telling people how clen works, because at the end of the day all you have to do is take it in a cyclical manner at a safe dose and it will work. understanding WHY it works wont change that. furthermore, taking other drugs to upregulate or downregulate receptors etc etc, apart from being largely bullshit, isnt needed when you cycle it rationally.

what this IS about is just another chapter in the delusionary masturbations that constitute fonz's thought processes.

 

[bicepts101]

i understand that me knowing how clen works it will not change the fact that it works......but i still want to know.....im very interesting in understanding what the chemical things are doing in my body and why they are doing it on a scientific level.

 

[jubei]

actual information would be appreciated gd. I like to learn as much as possible about what i am putting in my body regardless of whether that education is formal or not.

 

[bicepts101]

actual information would be appreciated gd. I like to learn as much as possible about what i am putting in my body regardless of whether that education is formal or not.

exactly bro.......

 

[manny78]

I thought clen affected b3 too?

Not much of an issue though b3's are not so important in humans. Clen is anabolic for animals.

Yup which makes clen anabolic but problem is: humans have little B3 (no b3 at all I believe). Only livestock/horses do. And that's where comes the myth of clen being anabolic/anti-catabolic.

BTW with ketotifen you gotta be careful. ANyone remember IP's superclen with his unbalanced ratio of keto/clen ? That stuff was just too strong...

 

[Fonz]

It's already been explained how Clen works. BAout a zillion times over the years.

GD is just blowing out smoke like usual. Nothing new.

I suggest you concentrate on other things worth learning.

 

[bicepts101]

I suggest you concentrate on other things worth learning.

why is this not worth learning?

 

[Fonz]

why is this not worth learning?

Because it's already in the archives. And has been re-posted about 100 times already.

All you have to do is run a search.

 

[GoldenDelicious]

It's already been explained how Clen works. BAout a zillion times over the years.

GD is just blowing out smoke like usual. Nothing new.

I suggest you concentrate on other things worth learning.

if it has been explained so many times, why are you having such difficulty explaining it in this thread?

and any smoke in this thread is coming either from the brakes on your massive ego coming to a screaming halt with the exposition of your ineptitude, OR from you being burned alive during question time.

just face it fonz. you just dont know the answer, but talk, and advise others as if you do.

people are putting things in their bodies based on your advice, and you just dont care what happens to them. you disgust me.