Anavar Question

[wayneboard1]

I am trying to learn as much as I can about Anavar. The area I seem to be finding a decent amount of debate is regarding Var and the countermeasures one would need regarding it's affect on your cholesterol. I know it trashes your cholesterol, thats fact from what I have read. However the debate as to if the damage is permenant is still unanswered; at least in my mind. SO, is it really as simple as this quote?

"User experience seems to point to the fact that prolonged use of Anavar does bring your good cholesterol down and your bad cholesterol up. Take your flax seed oil."

Is this all there is too it? Before cycling Var I want to know all I can so any facts or actual knowledge is helpful.

 

[Indy]

I am trying to learn as much as I can about Anavar. The area I seem to be finding a decent amount of debate is regarding Var and the countermeasures one would need regarding it's affect on your cholesterol. I know it trashes your cholesterol, thats fact from what I have read. However the debate as to if the damage is permenant is still unanswered; at least in my mind. SO, is it really as simple as this quote?

"User experience seems to point to the fact that prolonged use of Anavar does bring your good cholesterol down and your bad cholesterol up. Take your flax seed oil."

Is this all there is too it? Before cycling Var I want to know all I can so any facts or actual knowledge is helpful.

4 weeks after my var cycle, my total cholesterol was back down to 173, forget what HDL and LDL seperately were, but well within normal range. Never tested midcycle to see how bad it would get, but if it did, certainly did not take long to recover.

 

[Makavelli]

Just like with any oral, your cholesterol will return to normal fairly quickly.

 

[thx9000]

VAR will most likely trash your HDL.
Aged garlic extract may help your overall cardio health as will fish oil (much better than Flax).

The best course of action is to check your pre-cycle lipid profile and confirm that you're starting off at a healthy state. Most likely you are and the several weeks of VAR induced lipid hell won't really matter. If, however, you have a history of poor lipid prorfiles and related cardiovascular risk factors VAR isn't the drug for you. Well, you really shouldn't be thinking of AAS in this case either.

 

[Indy]

VAR will most likely trash your HDL.
Aged garlic extract may help your overall cardio health as will fish oil (much better than Flax).

The best course of action is to check your pre-cycle lipid profile and confirm that you're starting off at a healthy state. Most likely you are and the several weeks of VAR induced lipid hell won't really matter. If, however, you have a history of poor lipid prorfiles and related cardiovascular risk factors VAR isn't the drug for you. Well, you really shouldn't be thinking of AAS in this case either.

I do the daily fish oil thing as well, maybe that helped.

 

[ALIN]

I am trying to learn as much as I can about Anavar. The area I seem to be finding a decent amount of debate is regarding Var and the countermeasures one would need regarding it's affect on your cholesterol. I know it trashes your cholesterol, thats fact from what I have read. However the debate as to if the damage is permenant is still unanswered; at least in my mind. SO, is it really as simple as this quote?

"User experience seems to point to the fact that prolonged use of Anavar does bring your good cholesterol down and your bad cholesterol up. Take your flax seed oil."

Is this all there is too it? Before cycling Var I want to know all I can so any facts or actual knowledge is helpful.

just remeber your cycles are temporary and you cholosterol will go back to normal in few weeks after stopping cycle.

 

[wayneboard1]

thanks for the replies guys. I was reading more after posting this and Geoboy had some posts about how Var creates a "sludge" of sorts that does not go away and is with you for good. Of course now that I said that I bet I won't be able to find that post. Any info on this aspect of the LDL/HDL issues?

 

[wayneboard1]

VAR will most likely trash your HDL.
Aged garlic extract may help your overall cardio health as will fish oil (much better than Flax).

The best course of action is to check your pre-cycle lipid profile and confirm that you're starting off at a healthy state. Most likely you are and the several weeks of VAR induced lipid hell won't really matter. If, however, you have a history of poor lipid prorfiles and related cardiovascular risk factors VAR isn't the drug for you. Well, you really shouldn't be thinking of AAS in this case either.

do you guys that use the fish oil prefer the liquid or the tabs?

 

[Indy]

do you guys that use the fish oil prefer the liquid or the tabs?

it's the liquid gel caps I take, pop one and ten minutes later you're belching like you ate a pound of Salmon

 

[wayneboard1]

it's the liquid gel caps I take, pop one and ten minutes later you're belching like you ate a pound of Salmon

LOLOLOLOLOLOL.....I spit out my hydrox and milk! (Hydrox cuz I am too poor to get oreos)

 

[wayneboard1]

Bump this please.

 

[thx9000]

do you guys that use the fish oil prefer the liquid or the tabs?

You can get the enteric coated ones (Fisoil) to avoid the burps. I have found that Carlson's lemon fish oil goes down well and tastes pretty good (VERY strong lemon flavor). I just add some to my protein shake.

 

[wayneboard1]

thanks guys, keep that info coming

 

[wayneboard1]

bump this please.

 

[thx9000]

bump this please.

What more do you want to know?

 

[wayneboard1]

I would like to get more info regarding post #7 and a potential "cardiac sludge" that can be permenant from var.

 

[thx9000]

I would like to get more info regarding post #7 and a potential "cardiac sludge" that can be permenant from var.

Find a reference, that sounds rediculous. Sure long term LDL oxidation along with longterm HDL suppression will result in plaque build-up over many years. So, make sure you have a deit rich in many antioxidants, keep oral cycles reasonably short, and don't cycle if your "clean" lipid profile looks like shit.

 

[wayneboard1]

Well for some reason it took me a long time to find that post but here it is. After reading it it looks as though it falls into the same catagory as any gear. Long term abuse will results in issues, but if diet is in check (plenty of omega 3's) , there is not a existing cardiac/cholesterol problem, and excercise including aerobic is in place, it should not be an issue.

http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?t=364312&highlight=anavar+cholesterol

 

[geoboy]

thanks for the replies guys. I was reading more after posting this and Geoboy had some posts about how Var creates a "sludge" of sorts that does not go away and is with you for good. Of course now that I said that I bet I won't be able to find that post. Any info on this aspect of the LDL/HDL issues?

Trashed HDL is my pet paranoia - applies to most non-aromatizing gear, as well as estrogen-killing ancillaries like arimidex, proviron. ( note however that nolvadex actually helps keep hdl up - mimics/blocks estrogen at the site rather than prevents aromatization).

var & winny however are among the worst. easy to get to single digit hdl. freaks out your doc real quick.


Here's a bunch of great threads on raising HDL post-cycle, and precautions to take while on.

http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?t=241544

http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?t=299692


http://www.cuttingedgemuscle.com/Forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=9632

http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?t=339384


http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?t=361768

http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?t=355314

http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?t=364312

http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?p=4317603&highlight=hdl*#post4317603

 

[geoboy]

Find a reference, that sounds rediculous. Sure long term LDL oxidation along with longterm HDL suppression will result in plaque build-up over many years. So, make sure you have a deit rich in many antioxidants, keep oral cycles reasonably short, and don't cycle if your "clean" lipid profile looks like shit.

1) irrespective of why you are accumulatiing artery plaque, once its there, its currently considered to be virtually permanent short of angioplasty (that may change soon). agree?

2) that said, since HDL is what flushes out the "bad cholesterol" (ldl) and prevents it from forming arterial plaque, var or anything else that lowers your HDL to negligable numbers will cause rapid accumulation of artery plaque, a sort of accelerated cardiovascular aging.

iow, all other things being equal, with lower HDL levels, it will take you far less time to accumulate a given amount of plaque. And once there, its there forever & ever amen.

how much less time? I dont believe there are any quant studies on this (at least I havent seen any), but note that low HDL numbers are considered an independent risk factor for heart attack irrespective of an individual's other lifestyle/health characteristics.

3) check out the study in the first link above (my post on garlic) . it appears it can act as a replacement super-hdl while you're natural hdl production is impaired.

-

 

[geoboy]

bump for wayneb

 

[wayneboard1]

Hey geoboy I really appreciate all your threads and info. I guess I wasn't clear in what I am looking for in posting this thread. I am aware of all that can be done to help control/stabilize hdl and ldl levels, and that was reinforced with your threads.

However, in regards to your posts that the "sludge" you get in your system while on orals such as Var being [U]permenant[/U]; where did this info come from? Do you have any studies that show that this is in fact true? I read thru your links over the past day and a half and I either missed it, or it wasn't there. I may of missed it as most of my reading was done at 2AM. I appreciate your concern regarding this issue, but I am looking for FACTS regaarind this "sludge" Thanks again and K to you.

 

[wayneboard1]

Bump

 

[under]

Wasn't var given to children re growth problems. Wouldn't cardiac sludge outweigh the benefit of var in children to make it not useable or worth it.

 

[wayneboard1]

Wasn't var given to children re growth problems. Wouldn't cardiac sludge outweigh the benefit of var in children to make it not useable or worth it.

I do beleive that the dose and length you take it does have a key role in this supposed cardiac sludge. It's hard sometimes to get actual facts and that is what I am looking for but you do raise a good question I think.

 

[wayneboard1]

bump this

 

[Neo22]

bump for you bro want to know also

 

[liquidmuscle]

my cholesterol was f'ed up as well but now i am good to go

 

[geoboy]

However, in regards to your posts that the "sludge" you get in your system while on orals such as Var being [U]permenant[/U]; where did this info come from? Do you have any studies that show that this is in fact true? .

W - I think #2 addresses your main concern, but just to lay it all out in one place for new readers

1) "sludge" is just my descriptive slang for artery plaque. There's nothing unique about the plaque/sludge that var use will lead to via its destruction of HDL levels.

sludge = plaque.

2) FACT: current science says that once artery plaque (sludge) is in place, it's permanent (short of angioplasty). I dont have a specific study to cite, but it's accepted common medical knowledge, and a goggle search will get you tons of confirmation. (If it wasnt permanent, you wouldnt have rich CV surgeons doing drive-tru balloon angio's.)

plaque = permanent.

3) FACT: HDL (good chol) is what prevents the formation of plaque by carrying away LDL (bad cholesterol).

4) FACT: all other things being equal, then lower HDL will lead to faster accumulation of artery plaque. obvious. accelerated cardiovascular aging.

(but as I said in an earlier post, I'm not aware of any quantitative studies measuring the rate of CV aging acceleration associated with specific hdl numbers or hdl reduction.)

5) FACT: Var, along with winny and proviron, are among THE WORST at lowering HDL. Its easy to get to single digit hdl with moderate var doses for a few weeks. (me ::hdl=7 after 4 weeks 40 mg)

6) INFERENCE: var causes faster plaque/sludge accumulation, since low hdl = more plaque accumulation and var lowers hdl.

-

 

[wayneboard1]

good reply geoboy, thanks for that. So in a nutshell the key to keeping your cholesterol in the acceptable range is cardio excercise (lots of it) taking fish oils to help remove the bad cholesterol, and eating right. If doing this while on var you "should" be ok correct?

 

[wirednutz]

Bump for more info for a Var canidate

 

[wayneboard1]

bump this

 

[geoboy]

good reply geoboy, thanks for that. So in a nutshell the key to keeping your cholesterol in the acceptable range is cardio excercise (lots of it) taking fish oils to help remove the bad cholesterol, and eating right. If doing this while on var you "should" be ok correct?

no. if only.

varies some by individual, but while you're on, your HDL will likely be trashed no matter what you do. It will recover within 4-8 weeks after you stop the offending substance(s). list below can help speed the recovery. While you are HDL impaired the rate at which you are accumulating artery plaque is accelerated.

Best advice while on:

1) label dose of CV-formula Garlic tabs (kyolic I believe were used in the study) to act as substitute HDL (see 1st link in my list).

Then for both on and off:

2) inositol hexanicotinate (nonflush niacin -- NOT niacinamide) raises hdl
3) policosanol raises hdl, lowers ldl
4) aeorobic x raises hdl
5) monosaturated fats to raise hdl (olive oil example) walnuts, omega 3's
6) pysillium seed husk

 

[wayneboard1]

no. if only.

varies some by individual, but while you're on, your HDL will likely be trashed no matter what you do. It will recover within 4-8 weeks after you stop the offending substance(s). list below can help speed the recovery. While you are HDL impaired the rate that you are accumulating artery plaque is accelerated.

Best advice while on:

1) label dose of CV-formula Garlic tabs (kyolic I believe were used in the study) to act as substitute HDL (see 1st link in my list).

Then for both on and off:

2) inositol hexanicotinate (nonflush niacin -- NOT niacinamide) raises hdl
3) policosanol raises hdl, lowers ldl
4) aeorobic x raises hdl
5) monosaturated fats to raise hdl (olive oil example) walnuts, omega 3's
6) pysillium seed husk

Good info geo, thanks. Geesh the frigin "extras" cost as much if not more than the gear itself and I am talking about anavar! I was thinking about a 10 week cycle of var at 50, so we'll see. I am still reading up on TBOL to see how these 2 compare, especially in regards to the cholesterol issue.

I wonder if you happen to know what percentage aerobic excercise helps reduce cholesterol by? Even if it is a ballpark that would help.