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America 2030

  • Thread starter Thread starter Nihilist
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Nihilist

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after Russia and OPEC transferred to the Euro in 2006, the US economy went into a spiral it never came out of.

instead of learning about the real causes of the massive debt [crooked politicians, international bankers, Corp Masters, shadowy elite groups, ignorance/apathy of the citizenry], they became very angry at the world for leaving them behind. outrage, smothered patriotism, breathtaking charles dickens like poverty, joblessness, outrageous taxes for debt payback and feelings of deserved payback for long past goods, mingled with a total lack of hope of ever seeing its zenith again, opened the door for a strong, fascist leader.

and thus will begin the real 4th reich.
 
You mean the american president in 2004 will be a dictator?
 
yawn.

russia is marching inexorably backward foromthe "quasi-first world status" it enjoyed as the USSR...today it is second world, maybe third. (You tell me - is a country that pays its soldiers four pounds of sausages a month second or third world?)

OPEC exists solely for collusion and price fixing. An American
military presence in the middle east is the enemy of OPEC.


I'll overlook the logical contradictions (they are numerous) in your hypothesis to remind you of this: fascism is possible when ignorance reigns. Evidently you are hustling fascism along.

Do you even know what the first two Reichs were?
 
no.

by 2006 well be through as far as top dog in the world. last week russia says its willing to bare its teeth anywhere in the world, this week it again says its thinking heavily about turning pricing from dollars to euros. this is an obvious warning to us.

russia is the second largest oil exporter outside of saudi arabia. if russia goes euro, so will opec. that will directly cause a massive raise in energy prices in america, as well as change from dollars to euros as the worldwide reserve currency. massive selling of the dollar will then happen, which will make it totally worthless.

and as caesar said: nations dont lose war for lack of soldiers, nations lose wars for lack of coin.

because of a massive debt load, taxes will have to raise to an extreme degree. that will totally choke any hope for an economic rebound for decades, much like post world war 1 germany.

i wont even get into the end of oil, which will happen within this time period.

instead of learning from our mistakes, or being shown the way by a free press, americans will suffer and blame others. those who have never suffered will suffer, and theyll get very very angry.

this will go on for awhile, im guessing about 20 years or so, until various caustic emotions taint the entire nation.

they will want to be powerfull again. they are angry and suffering, with no one apparently helping them as they believe they helped others. it boils down to revenge. they will be listened to.

the powerfull leader will begin scapegoating, and talking about the might of the ppl. another 9/11 will happen,much like the reichstag fire [which is now known to have been planed by hitler BTW], and it will propel uds into a huge world war.

it seems as though it will be us Vs the euros/russians, who are aligning as we speak. its anyones guess what china will do, or if they are even a player then. lots of ppl mean little in high tech wars.

and also, like the nazis, it wont work. it will be the absolute final death throes of a bygone empire. but the death toll will be in the hundreds of millions, if not billions.
 
werent the first 2 reichs genghis khan and naepolean?

bump.
 
I'll overlook the logical contradictions (they are numerous) in your hypothesis to remind you of this: fascism is possible when ignorance reigns. Evidently you are hustling fascism along.

how very witty.

please take the post apart, if you can.

and about my helping along the ignorance of america, i dont think we need any. remember, %70 of us think iraq had something to do with 9/11.

Next.
 
Good post, but you might want to bump the time frame up. The NWO has a 50 year plan that started in the late 40's, and has been set back a few times.
 
Normally I hate Matt's posts, but today I agree with him... good post...

Nihilist- I'm am not going to bother with your individual points, but your posts seem to forget 1) Russia has no power anymore- If they did not sell oil to us- they would have no money either... They are a third world country, but one that we subsidize... 2) OPEC countries have no power except for the oil... they pose no real threat to us... they don't want us in the area, so we don't make up an excuse to take over the regions oil supply 3) Europe is a joke- they have no power and can't do anything other than argue with each other in worthless UN meetings that no one listens to anyway

Why keep bolstering up failing govrnments around the world at our expense.....

why support some crappy little government in a god-forsaken land just to have them turn on us ten years later....

Or listen to their mamby-pamby meetings where they all bitch and moan, and make up rules for us to follow, yet if shit needs to get done, it is up to us to do it and pay for it... and yet they complain about how we get things done...

F that shit. If anything I think we should start taking what we please....

"it will be the absolute final death throes of a bygone empire"
There is nothing bygone about it- we have been living under a set of un-natural rules and imposed order of thing for two long... all of these unnatural rules have allowed all the little turds to act like big shots:isreal, the middle east, the european states... sooner or later, the biggest kid on the playground gets sick of it and pounds the shit out of everyone else... either that or he loses his ability and becomes a big pussy... it is time for a rumble
 
Nihilist said:


russia is the second largest oil exporter outside of saudi arabia. if russia goes euro, so will opec. that will directly cause a massive raise in energy prices in america, as well as change from dollars to euros as the worldwide reserve currency. massive selling of the dollar will then happen, which will make it totally worthless.




why would OPEC follow russia? if russia doesnt back off of its exporting OPEC will crush them in a price war. noone can touch OPEC.
 
Nihilist said:
no.

by 2006 well be through as far as top dog in the world. last week russia says its willing to bare its teeth anywhere in the world, this week it again says its thinking heavily about turning pricing from dollars to euros. this is an obvious warning to us.

you didn't answer my question: is Russia second or third world? What does it mean when yo pay Nice job ignoring OPEC collusion. If push came to shove we could break that in 3 days. Who's controlling Iraqi oil today?

Russia's conventional military is non - existent. They have zero force preotection. If nukes kept the US and USSR at bay for 50 years, what makes you think that would stop. A nuclear attack benefits no one.

The "dollar to euro" downturn is fantasy. As long as the US exists, the dollar has value...at least we all better hope so.

Debt load: half of the national debt - yes half - is owed to the social secuerity trust fund. (yes it's illusory but legisaltion requires SS surpluses to be spent on treasury securities).

Further, the GDP has outstripped the debt continually, so in theory there is a turnaround point. At $20T it might be problmeatic, but it might not. Even a well-informed liberal admits the GDP argument.

When the debt outgrows the GDP, stock up on canned goods. :)

end of oil...that's another issue and will not be a fun time.

As for comparison to post WW1 Germany - I can only hope you cut and pasted this fm a conspiracy theory site, and didn't write it yourself. The author is STOOPID.

the empire is stronger than ever.
 
Nihilist said:
werent the first 2 reichs genghis khan and naepolean?

bump.

Are you serious? LOL.

teh Holy roamn empire and Oto von Bismarck.

hence "third" (german) reich.
 
Becoming said:
Normally I hate Matt's posts, but today I agree with him... good post...


LOL. Never seen you on here before.
:)
 
Re: By 2030

Milo Hobgoblin said:
we had better have a working alternative fuel vehicle or we are all screwed anyways.

why?

this is why.



EATING FOSSIL FUELS

by Dale Allen Pfeiffer

© Copyright 2003, From The Wilderness Publications, www.fromthewilderness.com. All Rights Reserved. This story may NOT be posted on any Internet web site without express written permission. Contact [email protected]. May be circulated, distributed or transmitted for non-profit purposes only.

SUMMARY

October 3 , 2003, 1200 PDT, (FTW) -- Some months ago, concerned by a Paris statement made by Professor Kenneth Deffeyes of Princeton regarding his concern about the impact of Peak Oil and Gas on fertilizer production, I tasked FTW's Contributing Editor for Energy, Dale Allen Pfeiffer to start looking into what natural gas shortages would do to fertilizer production costs. His investigation led him to look at the totality of food production in the US. Because the US and Canada feed much of the world the answers have global implications.

What follows is most certainly the single most frightening article I have ever read and certainly the most alarming piece that FTW has ever published. Even as we have seen CNN, Britain's Independent and Jane's Defence Weekly acknowledge the reality of Peak Oil and Gas within the last week, acknowledging that world oil and gas reserves are as much as 80% less than predicted, we are also seeing how little real thinking has been devoted to the host of crises certain to follow; at least in terms of publicly accessible thinking.

This article is so serious in its implications that I have taken the unusual step of underlining 26 of its key findings. I did that with the intent that the reader treat each underlined passage as a separate and incredibly important fact. Each one of these facts should be read and digested separately to assimilate its importance. I found myself reading one fact and then getting up and walking away until I could come back and (un)comfortably read to the next.

All told, Dale Allen Pfeiffer's research and reporting confirms the worst of FTW's suspicions about the consequences of Peak Oil and it poses serious questions about what to do next. Not the least of these is why, in a presidential election year, none of the candidates has even acknowledged the problem. Thus far, it is clear that solutions for these questions, perhaps the most important ones facing mankind, will by necessity be found by private individuals and communities, independently of outside or governmental help. Whether the real search for answers comes now, or as the crisis becomes unavoidable, depends solely on us. It is also abundantly clear that fresh water, its acquisition and delivery, is a crisis that is upon us now as certainly as is Peak Oil and Gas.

Here are just of few of the report's key findings:

1. In the United States, 400 gallons of oil equivalents are expended annually to feed each American (as of data provided in 1994).7 Agricultural energy consumption is broken down as follows:

· 31% for the manufacture of inorganic fertilizer (excluding feedstock)

· 19% for the operation of field machinery

· 16% for transportation

· 13% for irrigation

· 08% for raising livestock (not including livestock feed)

· 05% for crop drying

· 05% for pesticide production

· 08% miscellaneous8

2. To give the reader an idea of the energy intensiveness of modern agriculture, production of one kilogram of nitrogen for fertilizer requires the energy equivalent of from 1.4 to 1.8 liters of diesel fuel. This is not considering the natural gas feedstock.9 According to The Fertilizer Institute (http://www.tfi.org), in the year from June 30 2001 until June 30 2002 the United States used 12,009,300 short tons of nitrogen fertilizer.10 Using the low figure of 1.4 liters diesel equivalent per kilogram of nitrogen, this equates to the energy content of 15.3 billion liters of diesel fuel, or 96.2 million barrels.

3. Between 1945 and 1994, energy input to agriculture increased 4-fold while crop yields only increased 3-fold.11 Since then, energy input has continued to increase without a corresponding increase in crop yield. We have reached the point of marginal returns. Yet, due to soil degradation, increased demands of pest management and increasing energy costs for irrigation (all of which is examined below), modern agriculture must continue increasing its energy expenditures simply to maintain current crop yields.

4. The U.S. food system consumes ten times more energy than it produces in food energy. This disparity is made possible by nonrenewable fossil fuel stocks.

5. Unfortunately, if you remove fossil fuels from the equation, the daily diet will require 111 hours of endosomatic labor per capita; that is, the current U.S. daily diet would require nearly three weeks of labor per capita to produce.

Michael C. Ruppert
October 3, 2003
 
i was more or less asking how or when you think we would run out of crude or natural gas.

you act like we are going to wake up one day and there is nothing and we havnt evolved to alternatives.
 
MattTheSkywalker said:


LOL. Never seen you on here before.
:) [/B]

That is because people who say stupid stuff irritate me... I don't usually post on any of these theory mumbo jumbo threads... All these theories are only that... theories
 
Chaucer said:
This country is on it's death bed. Every state will resemble California by 2030...mark my words.

Okay- then we will be on deaths bed- and we wont have the right do do shit without asking everyone else first....

Thanks for contributing to the movement...
 
Becoming said:


Okay- then we will be on deaths bed- and we wont have the right do do shit without asking everyone else first....

Thanks for contributing to the movement...



WTF....I have no idea what you are trying to say?
 
Chaucer said:
WTF....I have no idea what you are trying to say?

I am saying if you are right, it will suck (I was agreeing)
 
Nihilist said:


1. matters little what russia is today. the title is america 2030. by my counting, that more or less 26 years away. ok?


If I asked you to tell me the last time a country went from thrid world to first world,you might say China. Except they're not first world. So tell me how Russia is going to "get there"? Where is the forumla based on other nations that have done it?


2. saudi arabia and russia are the number 1 and 2 oil exporters. they convert to the euro, and energy takes a nice leap in this country. am i wrong on this or not?

Supply/demand. We could pay in taco shells and it wouldn'tmake a difference. The US will always be a monster consumer, although the growth of oil use is highest in Asian nations.

Since part of your argument was the depletion of oil....how relevant is Russian production really? (This was part of the contradictions from before).

European nations have massive disincentives to oil use. They also have countries that are the size of Pennsylvaina. Similar poicy would not work here. The US will always be the oil monster and therefore will be able to dictate how that business is done.


3. if oil is priced in euros, with the emergence of the euro and it not being totally burdened with debt, others will follow suit and buy it as the reserve currency. theyll sell off greenbacks, and the dollar will lose value. why? because there will be so much in circulation, ppl will start to sell it cheaper than its valued to get rid of it. seems pretty simple to me, perhaps you could edumacate me about this.


The worth of the dollar is staked to the credibility of the US government. There is no "gold standard" as I am sure you know. As soon as the US is not the pre-eminent military force in the world, the dollar is in deep shit.

The military gap between the US and everyone else is so ridiculous as to be beyond comparison. 10 aircraft carriers. No one else has one with worldwide capability. India and China have limited aircraft carriers. Russia has two or three, none serviceable. Dry dock. Space based laser cannons are not far away. Your pals in Russia get their paycheckls in sausages . When it comes to force projection, we could conquer the world if we wanted to.

As much as we hate it, the US government isn't going anywhere. Neither is the dollar.

As far as burdened with debt - you can slice half of the debt right off. It's owed to the Social Security trust. It's like the Army owing the Navy. Not a big deal.

The debt itself is not a big deal as long as GDP outstrips the debt. When the debt outstrips the GDP, buy canned goods and move to the basement.

Oil based in Euro's? Don't hold your breath. You don't see European militaries overthrowing Iraq do you? With 150K American tropps right next to Saudi, do you think they want to play games? The US is the oil monster - we have already fought two wars to make sure we stay that way. We'll go to war for oil, and no one can oppose us short of a nuclear attack, in which case everyone loses.


4. your claim that there is a turning point for the debt is saying that things continue to skyrocket as it has for the last few decades. it also supposes that the dollar stays the main reserve currency. it also presupposes the govt wont embark on some more outrageously ignorant spending.

It only presupposes that the GDP grows faster than the debt.


5. your difference of opinion on my equation with the US in this scenario and post WW1 germany can be argued. but, machaivellis maxims for people havent changed much in the last 350 years. given the succes america has enjoyed for a very long time, and its sudden reversal, i dont think its much of a leap to think something very similar could happen.

Germany 1920 and the US today are like apples and water buffalo. Yes, the empire will fall. But I don't see this as the way.
BTW what "sudden reversal" are you talking about? US has never been richer.


also, lets not start this 'label and defame' bullshit you just slung. conspiracy theorist, liberal, conservative communist, fascist, socialist etc etc is just a cheap way to try to crawl on top in a debate. lets keep it out of this if at all possible.

I don't want to do that, but I see a lot of cut and paste from your posts. And FTW is a joke - we'd both have to admit they are far far left. It;s like 3rd world traveler.

Actually I appreciate you posting stuff worthy of discussing.
 
Becoming said:


That is because people who say stupid stuff irritate me... I don't usually post on any of these theory mumbo jumbo threads... All these theories are only that... theories

Oh....for a minute I had you confused with a guy who was organizing karma whoring.

Now THAT's stupid.
 
MattTheSkywalker said:


Are you serious? LOL.

teh Holy roamn empire and Oto von Bismarck.

hence "third" (german) reich.

wtf? i thought the germans were a bunch of loose knit tribes that the roman empire tried to conquer. how did that make them the first reich?
 
You are predicting the future, but using the past tense.



Nihilist said:
after Russia and OPEC transferred to the Euro in 2006, the US economy went into a spiral it never came out of.

instead of learning about the real causes of the massive debt [crooked politicians, international bankers, Corp Masters, shadowy elite groups, ignorance/apathy of the citizenry], they became very angry at the world for leaving them behind. outrage, smothered patriotism, breathtaking charles dickens like poverty, joblessness, outrageous taxes for debt payback and feelings of deserved payback for long past goods, mingled with a total lack of hope of ever seeing its zenith again, opened the door for a strong, fascist leader.

and thus will begin the real 4th reich.
 
I have another, more likely scenario. The U.S. makes major advances in a myriad of sciences, genetic engineering, stem cell research, communications, computer technology, nanotechnology. The massive increase in productivity and the goods and services that are produced from such productivity overwhelm the economy. The standard of living increases to the point where even the poor are well to do by todays standards. Life expectancy increases to 100 yrs. The human race finally raises out of the quagmire of ignorance and poverty and begins to live with the dignity in which god intended us to live.
 
MattTheSkywalker said:
Oh....for a minute I had you confused with a guy who was organizing karma whoring.

Now THAT's stupid.

Thanks for the dis dude, after I just said I had an appreciation for your viewpoints... The post was in reference to your antagonist on the thread... :confused:

By the way, I said "That is because people who say stupid stuff irritate me... I don't usually post on any of these theory mumbo jumbo threads... All these theories are only that... theories"

This was in reference to the peeps on here who just post theorectical opinions based on crap that is made up by them or by crappy media sources, once again, like your antagonist...

I won't bother from now on... :(

Though you might not agree, and not to pick a fight or anything cause it is not worth it- there were a lot of people who had a lot of fun with karma whoring on the chat board before we were all banned from it, and the chat board IS for entertainment (ie-fun)....
 
Rancid Bongwater said:
I AM PRECISION-HONED TEMPERED-STEEL...
...MY LEGS, TORSO, AND ARMS ARE ENERGIZED DOMINANACE WEAPONS...
...CHANNELING THE FORCE OF CONQUEST WITH EVERY COMPELLING MOVE...
...AND MY FACIAL EXPRESSION COMMUNICATES THAT I TAKE NO PRISONERS.
MY EYES PROJECT THE TORRENT OF MY CONVICTION TO PREVAIL.
I WILL USE MY EXTREMITIES TO DOMINATE.
I AM PRIMED FOR COMBAT, PRIMED FOR EXCELLENCE...
I AM UNCHAINED DOMINANCE AND FURY...
I AM THE FORCE OF ACTION, CONQUEST, COMPULSION...
I AM READY...
...NOW...
...RIGHT F----ING NOW!


OK. Got it. Yawn.

You are one funny hippie. Why don't you go smoke a bowl or something?
 
We already have several personas who do this brand of funny.

GO elsewhere or get better material.

Rancid Bongwater said:



I am slain.
Therefore I am.
Slain.

Puff..Puff...Puff.


Green.

It's a good color, often overlooked by people of importance.

Not you.
 
nordstrom said:


wtf? i thought the germans were a bunch of loose knit tribes that the roman empire tried to conquer. how did that make them the first reich?

high?

the Holy Roman empire was organized under Charlemagne AKA Charles the great who was crowned emperor by the Pope in 800.

FYI he was the grandson of Charles Martel, who stopped the spread of Islam into Europe.
 
ah thats right. I forgot about Charlemagne's roman empire, i was thinking of the Caesar roman empire.
 
Re: Re: America 2030

Code said:
You are predicting the future, but using the past tense.




exactly, he doesnt take into account advancenents in technologies or the dynamics of policy changes, etc etc.
 
Evening Primrose oil has numerous health benefits, including its antioxidant capacity and highly bioavailable GLA content.
 
Warpath said:
I have another, more likely scenario. The U.S. makes major advances in a myriad of sciences, genetic engineering, stem cell research, communications, computer technology, nanotechnology. The massive increase in productivity and the goods and services that are produced from such productivity overwhelm the economy. The standard of living increases to the point where even the poor are well to do by todays standards. Life expectancy increases to 100 yrs. The human race finally raises out of the quagmire of ignorance and poverty and begins to live with the dignity in which god intended us to live.

Great thoughts sir, but next to impossible.

You have Matt's thoughts and those who support it, you have Nihilist's thoughts and those who support it, it will all fall right in the middle or somewhat favoring the Nihilist's train of thought in terms of America going to shit continuing past its current state of shittiness. peace
 
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