Alpha liopic acid -VS- Metaformin

[lawnsaver]

I search and found threads by Fonz in which he stated ALA can increase glucose uptake by 50%. In medical journals, metaformin yields anywhere from 15-30%.

I find it hard to believe an otc product can yeild better results than a prescribed med.

Fonz, Stew Meat, and the rest of the scientific gurus, lets discuss.

I take ALA now at 250mg 3 x times a day and dont really see any noticable results. I leaning towards metaformin now. I have a problem with eating to many carbs and want something to balance it out.

 

[lawnsaver]

UP!

 

[Hugh Gellatts]

Both of them make me sleepy and lethargic if I use anytime in the day before lifting. Metformin also seems to turn my digestive tract into gum, so I don't touch the stuff anymore... it really makes it hard for me to eat enough when my GI tract feels so fucked up.

ALA postworkout with creatine and glutamine is good though. I sure wouldn't use metformin postworkout, since it greatly slows nutrient absorbtion in the gut.

 

[lawnsaver]

Did you like the results of metaformin? besides the sides.

 

[growin']

I had been using Metformin for the last couple months, and finally got sick of the shit. I realized that was what was making me queezy. I am using ALA now at 1000mg/day. I think the glucose improvement-effect is similar to Metformin, but it's also a kick as antioxidant. I don't think Metformin really helped with bodycomposition. Just my two cents.

 

[Namu]

Bump, anyone else have any more information........This is very interesting........

 

[lawnsaver]

Fonz...Stew...you guys up? Huck, how bout it?

 

[CB38AC]

i used it for a couple week and din't feel any different maybee had more engry thats it but did put on wieght which didnt seem to be fat...since i have stopped though wieght gains have slowed and def put on some fat...could be coincidence

 

[lawnsaver]

Bump for the daytime crew!

 

[Trevdog]

I am using ALA at about 600-700 mg. per day and it seems to help lean me up.

I have a question about ALA for those in the know. As we all know, one should avoid fats after injecting insulin since insulin would shuttle fat into the cells. Does the same rule apply to taking ALA?

 

[PlateheadJim]

Been on Metformin for about 7 weeks. First 3 sucked, felt queasy and energy was slammed.. After the initial "transition" I get no sides. Take about 1.7 grams a day and have been able to shred a bit more post cycle (already pretty damn lean, so didn't expect dramatic results). I'm actually adding ALA to the mix as well - will plan on keeping Metformin even while "on", afterall I enjoy prescription drugs !

 

[Verbal Gorilla]

Once again...metformin works by blocking glut-4 pathways...ie. blocking GH!...ie. it blows goats...

ALA works basically the oppisite way (bluntly speaking)...ie. it is some good stuff!

 

[lawnsaver]

Bump one more time for Fonz and Stew.

 

[PlateheadJim]

Blocking GH? Explain a little more on that?? Yeah, taken right at post workout can be negative as it can slow glucose absorbtion BUT so can ALA. Still, I'm not sure how GH can be affected??

 

[lawnsaver]

Why do supplement companies recomend ALA after training with creatine if it slows absorbtion?

 

[PlateheadJim]

Yeah, that's a good question.. Maybe it's a myth that ALA and even Metformin slow absorbtion - I've never seen any scientific reports to verify this. The pharmacology info on metformin says it increases insulin sensitivity in muscle tissue, nothing about slowing down glucose absorbtion.

 

[CB38AC]

block GH huh?...dunno for me its worth it I may be insulin resistant but it gives me energy

 

[Fonz]

Sorry about the wait Lawnsaver....

ALA increases the amount of glut-4 transporter
cells quite dramatically.

i.e. it increases the amount of glucose your cells
can "soak up".

Now, there is a massive debate that ALA increases glucose
transport to both miocytes and adipocytes.
Even if this were the case, ALA still has some
pretty damn good nutrient partitioning effects

For example, say muscle glycogen was completely full.

And you then ate 1000Kcal of glucose.

That glucose would then go straight into the adipocytes.

However, the addition of ALA during that meal
would increase muscle glucose capacity and
therefore a big portion of those 1000Kcal would go
into the muscle cells.

Result: Less fat stored.

One of the best bulking supplements out there.
Specially when on estrogenic-based steroids that
decrease glucose clearance.

Godspeed

 

[CB38AC]

fonz what about glucophage/metformin

 

[Fonz]

fonz what about glucophage/metformin

Metformin increases glucose up-take by 15-40%
depending on the individual.
Healthy individuals would probably be in the lower
range though. Type-II diabetics would
be in the upper end of the spectrum.

Things that Metformin does:

1. Slows down gastric emptying.
Quite the appetite suppresant.

2. Reduces the amount of glucose formed
from ingested food.

And:

1. Gives you GAS and stomach cramps.
(Highly individualized though)

2. You need 1700mgs/day minimum for
therapeutic effects.
Maximum dose is 2550mg Btw
DO NOT GO OVER THIS.

Thats about it.

Godspeed

 

[Trevdog]

Hey Fonz, my question sort of got buried.

I am wondering whether I should really restrict fat intake (including "good" fat like flax oil) after taking ALA.

I understand that it is unknown whether ALA will increase uptake of glucose to fat cells, but I don't know if it acts like insulin as far as shuttling dietary fat into the body's cells.

 

[lawnsaver]

Thanks Fonz! I'll stick with ALA.

 

[Fonz]

Hey Fonz, my question sort of got buried.

I am wondering whether I should really restrict fat intake (including "good" fat like flax oil) after taking ALA.

I understand that it is unknown whether ALA will increase uptake of glucose to fat cells, but I don't know if it acts like insulin as far as shuttling dietary fat into the body's cells.

Differences between ALA and Insulin.

1. Insulin shuttles everything into the cells.
FFA's, aminos, carbs.

Thats why when taking insulin Post-Wo
it is imperative to eat as little fat as possible
because the fat ingested would go straight
into the fat cells.

2. ALA increases glut-4 concemtrations on the outside
of the cell.

This transporter transports glucose NOT FFA's

Protein = 58% glucogenic aminos
Fat= 10% glucose(glycerol molecule)
carbs= 100% glucose

Only the glucose woud be transported into
the cells. The FFA's would not.

Taking fat w/ ALA in a meal does not make you
fatter.

With Insulin it will though.

A good rule of thumb to use is that for every 75g carbs
consumed you take 200mg ALA..

Godspeed

 

[Trevdog]

Thank you Fonz. I haven't used insulin or metformin, but I really like the ALA. I usually take 200 mg. with a shake first thing in the a.m. pre workout, and then 500 mg. with dextrose, creatine, and glutamine post workout, followed by a shake.