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Abortion..... what is your position?

GinNJuice

GinNJuice

New member
Ok, I'll assume that all the pro-choicers agree with abortion in early stages of pregnacy.

Pro-lifers -
Are you dead set against abortion..... or is it ok if the woman was raped?
 
It should not be illegal. On the otherhand, the government should not be involved and I do not want a dime of my tax money going to any thing involving abortions.
 
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Having a son myself, I don't like the idea of abortion...but I do think it's the women's right to choose. I would rather have her abort the baby then to have it and make it suffer and not be cared for properly. I just hate that the father has no say so whatsoever.

P.S. A friend of mine just went through this exact shit. His ex-girl had already had one abortion (which was his) and she got pregnant again last month and aborted it again (the baby was his again) he wanted to keep it, but she didn't....plus she already has a 2 yr old son. WTF...how about wearing fucking protection.....
 
They should have the biological father sign a paper allowing it...but this won't work, she could get any bum off the street to sigh the damn thing. You can't test for paternity till the last weeks before birth, and is not normally done until after birth in most cases.
 
If you do not want the child, cannot properly care for the child I am in agreement with abortion. I had a giant thread on this one awhile ago so my stance is well known.

Drizz
 
Delete_Or_Punch.jpg
 
spongebob said:
im glad my mom didnt think of me as just a piece of unwanted goo and abort me.
Click to expand...

Ok Sponge, but what if your mom had been raped and the result was a child that was unwanted/detested by her because of the connection with the crime? What if that cause her to treat the child very badly it's whole life, and the kid turned out to be a serial killer of little girls because of the warped upbringing?
 
I couldn't agree with abortion even if it was a case of rape. Now on the idea of what if the mother will die, then I don't really know how I would feel if I was in that position. I couldn't unless I was in it.
 
GinNJuice said:


Ok Sponge, but what if your mom had been raped and the result was a child that was unwanted/detested by her because of the connection with the crime? What if that cause her to treat the child very badly it's whole life, and the kid turned out to be a serial killer of little girls because of the warped upbringing?
Click to expand...

i try to avoid basing my philosophy on "what if's". my position is that i can not contribute to an abortion in any manner. i could not make that decision to abort a helpless innocent life. life is the most important thing to me in terms of this issue. life itself overrides any "what if's" or other circumstances, ie rape.
 
I don't really agree with abotion as a means of birth controll, but I wouldn't change the laws either.

I belive life begins at conception...there's no science to back this up, but it's just something I feel is true.

That being said, I know a few girls who've had abortions and I don't judge any of them.
 
Taps said:

I belive life begins at conception...there's no science to back this up, but it's just something I feel is true.
Click to expand...

Actually, this is very supportable by science. What is not supportable is that it is not a life.

MOTION -- does it seem to move under its own power? Does it move
with some discernible purpose? (Toward food, away from heat, etc)

REPRODUCTION -- does it have some way of making more of itself,
either through sexual reproduction or by budding or fissioning in
some way?

CONSUMPTION -- does it eat or drink? Does it take in nutrients
in one way or another in order to survive, grow, and eventually
multiply?

GROWTH -- does the organism develop over time, increase in
complexity, until it reaches a mature stage?

STIMULUS RESPONSE -- does the organism respond to external
stimuli, i.e. has a nervous system of some sort to detect
external conditions?
Click to expand...

Philosophical arguments tends to drive the crux of the debate, such as "What is a person?", "Who has the greater moral authority?", etc., not the concept of "life".
 
Everytime this thread comes up I see myself becoming more pro-choice, but still against abortion. I figure that if it's illegal, than the mother will try some other way of getting rid of the pregnancy. Let it stay legal, but do not give my tax dollars to fund it.

My friend told me his g/f just had an abortion. She's 18 and wanted to go through with the pregnancy, but he talked her out of it. I don't think any less of her.
 
I don't understand how one can state an opposition to abortion AND be pro-choice. That is a bunch of PC bullshit. Pro-choice is a euphemism for pro-abortion. If there is nothing wrong with it, why doesn't the pro-abortion crowd just call it what it is? Because the majority of Americans are opposed to the practice, that's why.

Why not judge women who have had abortions? They have taken it upon themselves to end a life. I call it murdering a baby, and the circumstances don't matter. The number of cases where a birth would endanger the life of the mother are practically nil. Some would say that it NEVER happens. Everything other case, then, is a matter of convenience. It is absurd that someone would advocate the killing of a baby to spare it some imagined future discomfort if it were permitted to live. What humanitarians!
 
I am against abortion

Very well said Hangfire

Smegmasoldier--what next?--who dies next? Who do we decide is worthless to society and kill? could it be that someone else might decide different from you and decide to eliminate someone you care about--for the good of society.

its really sad that life has become disposable to some folks.

but I guess its the world we live in now---a world void of true responsibility and very selfserving.
 
I believe new life results from pregnancy. A new consciousness capable of appreciating life’s beauty and sorrow. Even in my darkest hour, I still have profound gratitude for the fact that I am alive.

I don’t believe the "abortion question" should be one of legislative significance. The question should be settled in the minds of all but the morally corrupt.
 
In my eyes its the taking of a life and I am fortunate that the cold blooded taking of a life is still against the law--at least for now.
 
abortion is typical of what is wrong with our society. nobody wants to have any responsibility for their actions anymore. i personally think women who have abortions are pathetic, and there are no excuses. you got pregnant, now be responsible and raise your child.
 
SmegmaSoldier said:


im not talking about people that anyone cares about, im talking about unwanted babies. who is going to take care of these unwanted babies for their 18 years of childhood?
Click to expand...

I am not trying to sound like a sap here but I care about them. Many others who share my views care about them. c'mon man
 
SmegmaSoldier said:


im not talking about people that anyone cares about, im talking about unwanted babies. who is going to take care of these unwanted babies for their 18 years of childhood?
Click to expand...

When the responsible parents refuse to do so, well, then it is the responsibility of society. That is after all one of the reasons we have a society, for the good of the many. It's not the child's fault that he was born, nor is it his fault that his parrents failed him.

PS: I'll aruge the "good of the many" statement if I have to, but please don't argue that the "many" are society and the "few" are the unwanted child. I don't mind the argument, but it is corrupt.
 
I had a discussion with a friend about that topic. He said that the women have to take responsibility for their actions and have to carry the child through their pregnancy. If they don´t want them they should allow someone else to adopt them after birth.
 
the problem with pro-choicers is that ya'll don't give any empirical evidence to support your claims, all ya'll can give is a bunch of what ifs. abortion is used simply as a means of birth control, with the ends being the taking of a life. it is psychological egoism at its finest, which is a bunch of 'poo'.
 
I'll tell ya what pal---if the situation came up and If I felt lead to do so then I would --- but i cant adopt all those kids

but your rational is weak---you are trying to justify murder--b/c they are not wanted. listen to yourself.

there are folks out there wanting to adopt

there are folks out there waiting for long periods of time--that is not what this is about--b/c those mothers who want to throw thei child away with the trash are not interested in carrying the child--to them it is an inconvenience--that is what this is about.
 
SmegmaSoldier said:


i dont feel its society's responsibility. i wont and i would rather my tax dollars not be spent on it either. if people who claim to care would actually step up and take care of the kids then there wouldnt be a need for abortion. they just say that they care and then expect someone who doesnt want to be a parent to raise the kid for the next 18 years of their lives.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately when you live in a society, as I assume you do, you agree to its terms. These may include policies contradictory to your own preference. If the society you are living in purports to have standards based on "morals and ethics" (loose definitions) then that society is one that has to make allowances for the unfortunate few even at the cost of the many. In other words, its societies responsibility to make the RIGHT decisioin about supporting that child regardless of your individual beliefs.

I dont LIKE the fact that my money has to go towards unwed mothers, orphand children, or welfare recipients. You cannot IMAGINE how much I hate that my taxes are spent this way. But, I hate it less than living in a "society" that bases its ethics on convenience or financial motivation.
 
K, I have a question for you pro-lifers and pro-choicers.

What if medical science proved tomorrow, beyond a shadow of a doubt that life begins at conception?

What about vice versa?

Would you alter your views, or keep on beliving what you want to believe?
 
SmegmaSoldier said:


what does that mean "life begins?" the difference between conception and birth is really just growth. they can prove whatever they like it wont change my mind.
Click to expand...

I suppose "life begins" would be the point where the puddle of goo, or cells, or fetus actually develops a "soul," for lack of a better word. Whatever science defines as "life," I guess.

Does it happen right when mr wiggly hits the yolk, or a few minutes/hours/days/months later?
 
Taps said:


I suppose "life begins" would be the point where the puddle of goo, or cells, or fetus actually develops a "soul," for lack of a better word. Whatever science defines as "life," I guess.

Does it happen right when mr wiggly hits the yolk, or a few minutes/hours/days/months later?
Click to expand...

TAPS, I guess you didn't understand my earlier post. The question of when does "life" begin is not debatable, since biological science has a set of criteria that it uses for the defining of "living organism", and a blastosphere/zygote, whatever the intitial diploidal state, is a "life".

Roe v. Wade did not utilize this as a defining argument for legalization. They used viability, the ability of the fetus to exist outside of the womb, and philosophical judgements, such as "personhood" and "individual". Not to mention the misuse of the concept of "parasite".
 
SmegmaSoldier said:

thx, we do have to accept certain terms of society, but who sets the terms? im my opinion the terms allow for abortion of unwanted fetuses. in my opinion the terms should not force me to pay to raise unwanted children. this isnt a communist society so i expect at least my second term to be acceptable.
Click to expand...

Society sets the terms via its law makers. We have a peaceful revolution every 2-4 years to replace law makers that aren't reflecting the beliefs and values of the society at large.

You are right, the prevailing attitude seems to be that abortion is "okay. " I am on the outside of societies' view on this and trying to affect change in that attitude. Until that happens, I just have to accept that society condons something I feel to be morraly corrupt.

You feel that the terms should not force you to raise unwanted children. That isn't the prevailing attitude, and that's why laws protect those children. Good luck changing people's opinion on this. Innocent toddlers being set out to live on the streets of LA b/c some crack whore didn't want to bother and b/c teh state didn't care either isn't going to play well on national TV.

No, this isn't a communist society nor is it a democracy or anarchy. This is a republic. Thus, you can't just decided which rules you want to live by, and you (personally) don't get to directly set those rules.
 
Taps said:
K, I have a question for you pro-lifers and pro-choicers.

What if medical science proved tomorrow, beyond a shadow of a doubt that life begins at conception?

What about vice versa?

Would you alter your views, or keep on beliving what you want to believe?
Click to expand...


Even if it was proven that it didn't begin then, you're still taking away that child's right to even have a life.
 
F.B.I. said:
the problem with pro-choicers is that ya'll don't give any empirical evidence to support your claims, all ya'll can give is a bunch of what ifs. abortion is used simply as a means of birth control, with the ends being the taking of a life. it is psychological egoism at its finest, which is a bunch of 'poo'.
Click to expand...

i dont' think anyone read this.
 
PHATchik said:

Even if it was proven that it didn't begin then, you're still taking away that child's right to even have a life.
Click to expand...

I'm gonna throw a question at you all..... especially the pro-lifers.

Since there is a lot of talk about "when" the life really begins, and most is somewhere between conception and birth........

....... Maybe life begins when the woman's EGG drops from the ovaries.... I mean, without the egg, there is not going to be any life right? That egg is required for the pregnancy, so just as PHATchick says, you're taking away that child's (egg's) right to even have a life???????

Marinate...
 
SmegmaSoldier said:

there are tons of scum and poor people and we dont need these low lifes making more crack babies like themselves. abortions should be forced on such dirtbags.
Click to expand...

The only drawback to this proposal is, of course, that had it been around at the time of your mother's pregancy, you'd be a bug-eyed fetus in a trash can.
 
A child born to someone that doesn't care for or have the means to raise that child will have a shitty life. That should not be bestowed on any child. As adults, we all have a choice, a child born into such a situation doesn't.

A part of me says pro-life , but when i think about a child's future it makes me think again. What i don't agree with are the women who use abortion as a way out so they can fuck like ho's without the need for contraception.
 
vinylgroover said:
A child born to someone that doesn't care for or have the means to raise that child will have a shitty life. That should not be bestowed on any child. As adults, we all have a choice, a child born into such a situation doesn't.

A part of me says pro-life , but when i think about a child's future it makes me think again. What i don't agree with are the women who use abortion as a way out so they can fuck like ho's without the need for contraception.
Click to expand...

So, are you saying that it is OK to kill a baby just so it won't have a shitty life? I had a shitty childhood and I am a pretty goddam successful adult, and not too messed up in the head.

There should be no "choice" to commit murder. It is not a matter of a woman "having control over her body" when she decides to end the life of another human being. Personally, I have ended realtionships with women who I have found out had abortions. If they did it before, why would they not also kill my child? Funny thing about it is that when they talked about their abortions and how they have a right to this and that, they all cried. Go figure.
 
what if a kid is born and is alive for a litttle while and then the parent, being a complete looser decides that they dont want the kid anymore--should they be able to kill this child--after all, the kid is going to have a crappy life anyway right???-since the parent does not want the kid

this is some folks logic here. pretty sad
 
People are arguing about when life starts. I think life starts from the very first cell, but it isn´t the important aspect, it´s rather important when the kids brain starts working, imo.
A few cells that die isn´t worth shedding a single tear.
 
In an ideal world, i am pro life. But this is not an ideal world. All i'm suggesting is another point of view. All we ever hear about is the womans point of view or the mans point of view. All i'm suggesting is spare a thought for the child who may be brought into the world.

I am neither pro life nor pro-choice, but i do think each situation is different. To me the situation can naver be black or white.
 
GinNJuice said:
I'm gonna throw a question at you all..... especially the pro-lifers.

Since there is a lot of talk about "when" the life really begins, and most is somewhere between conception and birth........

....... Maybe life begins when the woman's EGG drops from the ovaries.... I mean, without the egg, there is not going to be any life right? That egg is required for the pregnancy, so just as PHATchick says, you're taking away that child's (egg's) right to even have a life???????

Marinate...
Click to expand...

I guess no one wanted to answer this question :(
 
SmegmaSoldier said:
because it wasnt a good question. if you consider life as beginning before conception then every time you jerk off you would be committing murder. we would all be serial mass murderers at this point.
Click to expand...

It was a great question..... that initiates thought resulting in a conclusion like the one you stated, and others as well.

Really, to concieve a baby, only ONE of the sprem has to reach the egg, yet you ejaculate thousands... so all those other sperm die anyway... so jacking off would be no different than the 'normal' death of the unused sperm.

However, each and every egg that drops from the ovaries COULD be concieved into a baby..... but if a woman "chooses" not to concieve, then that is a baby that could have been, but never will be.... and the potiential baby (egg) dies.
 
Pro choice. Had 2 of them done with my first girlfriend. Why? b/c we could. No guilt. No 2nd thoughts. Just went in there had the shit sucked out and left. I don't give a fuck. :toilet:
 
If you cant handle the responsibility that comes with sex you shouldn't be fucking around in the first place. Your taking away a human life before it even has a chance to be somebody in this world.
 
SmegmaSoldier said:


i wonder why? maybe because every single woman would be guilty of murder if they considered that life starting.

anyway its really ridiculous. you changed your original question that was bad and made it into a different bad one. nobody is going to consider that life starts before conception because it would be ridiculous to do so.
Click to expand...

I'm not saying that this is my opinion, but I'm just trying to exercise the thought process here.

... Let's hypothetically say that "life" DID begin with the egg... now, that egg COULD become a life, but the mother doesn't concieve that egg..... hypothitically(using the definition of 'life'), it would be killing, if you use the terms that the pro-lifers use.......

BUT WAIT, this happens everyday..... it can't be killing, it's accepted.... but think about it, we "kill" lives everyday..... you eat cows don't you, we eat chicken eggs right? ..... that 'killing' is perfectly acceptable, but it's still killing...... why would it be different with the woman's egg?
 
I so want to be a fly on the wall when Ralph Reed, or Jerry Falwell find out their daughter is pregnant out of wedlock and the fetus has been genetically tested positive for being gay.
 
GinNJuice said:


I'm not saying that this is my opinion, but I'm just trying to exercise the thought process here.

... Let's hypothetically say that "life" DID begin with the egg... now, that egg COULD become a life, but the mother doesn't concieve that egg..... hypothitically(using the definition of 'life'), it would be killing, if you use the terms that the pro-lifers use.......

BUT WAIT, this happens everyday..... it can't be killing, it's accepted.... but think about it, we "kill" lives everyday..... you eat cows don't you, we eat chicken eggs right? ..... that 'killing' is perfectly acceptable, but it's still killing...... why would it be different with the woman's egg?
Click to expand...

Anybody that cannot differentiate between human life and animals should probably skip to the next topic.
 
john937 said:
I so want to be a fly on the wall when Ralph Reed, or Jerry Falwell find out their daughter is pregnant out of wedlock and the fetus has been genetically tested positive for being gay.
Click to expand...

That would be a neat trick, especially since there is no evidence supporting homosexuality is genetic.
 
GinNJuice said:


I'm not saying that this is my opinion, but I'm just trying to exercise the thought process here.

... Let's hypothetically say that "life" DID begin with the egg... now, that egg COULD become a life, but the mother doesn't concieve that egg..... hypothitically(using the definition of 'life'), it would be killing, if you use the terms that the pro-lifers use.......

BUT WAIT, this happens everyday..... it can't be killing, it's accepted.... but think about it, we "kill" lives everyday..... you eat cows don't you, we eat chicken eggs right? ..... that 'killing' is perfectly acceptable, but it's still killing...... why would it be different with the woman's egg?
Click to expand...

Your hypothetical situation falls to shit, since an egg or sperm do not constitute a HUMAN life, since they are only the precursors to a HUMAN life. A human life boils down to one thing, 46 chromosomes, everything else is temporal-spatial.

With the access of contraceptives and "morning after pills", there is very little reason for the number of abortions today, except for pure lazyness.
 
im just thankful that my mom didnt allow a doctor to stick foreceps up her twat and commence to ripping me out piece by bloody piece.
 
Last edited:
Taps said:
K, I have a question for you pro-lifers and pro-choicers.

What if medical science proved tomorrow, beyond a shadow of a doubt that life begins at conception?

What about vice versa?

Would you alter your views, or keep on beliving what you want to believe?
Click to expand...

it's fucked up but as a pro choice person, I still think that abortion is killing SOMETHING. Having said that, I feel that it is best for a society as a whole that children are aborted by parents unwilling to care for them properly. Society is filled with children that were not taken care of properly, and if you don't beleive me go to your nearest prison. An unloved, unwanted child, grows up to be a monster.

and that's the bottom line, cause stone cold said so.
 
so you think that the child should give its life for society

since you think it is best for society--you deny the child life?
 
thx9000 said:


I dont LIKE the fact that my money has to go towards unwed mothers, orphand children, or welfare recipients.
Click to expand...

Jeez, god forbid that an orphanned child might actually need some of your tax dollars. I mean, your new stereo is waaaaay more important than keeping orphans off the streets isn't it??? Move to Brazil, their childcare policies are more to your taste, I believe....
 
GinNJuice said:


I guess no one wanted to answer this question :(
Click to expand...

I believe that the catholic church's positino is that life does begin with the egg, so preventing the egg dropping down is murder.... hence they only like the rythm method for contraception, as it doesn't work....

However, remember, the catholic church is a Italian organisation. Any rule Italians don't like, they just ignore. No-one in Italy gets worked up over what the roman catholic church thinks...


Anyway, it's a grey area. I would not have an abortion unless I had no other choice. I have already discussed on another thread that in my case medication I take has a high rsk of causing birth defects so a pregnancy would not be a safe idea. Pity, I'm starting to want to burst into tears every time I see a mum and kiddie.... I want kids.... can't have them :-(.

THe thing is, every woman is capable of producing 16 kids, does this mean we should all do so? Some limitation of reproductive capactity is called for now that 80% of kids do not die before they are 10 like in the stone age....

It's not just a baby, then it becomes a toddler, a kid, a teenager, it demands your full attention and assistance for 20 years - are you going to freely give up that time and make the necessary sacrifices or are you going to resent the child, not spend time with it, abuse or neglect it? I think society would be better served by many not being parents at all...
 
Same old discussion.

Pro lifers, please outline your anti abortion regime. What would the law say and how would it be enforced? Be specific.
 
spongebob said:
im just thankful that my mom didnt allow a doctor to stick foreceps up her twat and commence to ripping me out piece by bloody piece.
Click to expand...
I use forceps to deliver live babies and a suction cannula to remove the unwanted ones.
BTW, your mother wouldn't have allowed the doctor to.... she would have begged the doctor to...
 
aurelius said:
Same old discussion.

Pro lifers, please outline your anti abortion regime. What would the law say and how would it be enforced? Be specific.
Click to expand...

Not a real deep thought, since prior to Roe v. Wade, this was the state of affairs. I assume that it would be modified for medical intervention.

No matter, I still believe that with the access to contraceptives today, abortions should be very low, but this is not the case. Further evidence that man is by nature, lazy.
 
thebabydoc said:
I use forceps to deliver live babies and a suction cannula to remove the unwanted ones.
BTW, your mother wouldn't have allowed the doctor to.... she would have begged the doctor to...
Click to expand...

why the hostilities babydoc? my comment is a very simple one that should offend noone.
 
i'm pro-choice or pro-abortion..........whatever you pro-lifer's want to call it and since you are on the subject of how you care about these unwanted kids....there are plenty in adoption agencies as we type. why don't you rush out and adopt them?
 
DieselHoushead said:
i'm pro-choice or pro-abortion..........whatever you pro-lifer's want to call it and since you are on the subject of how you care about these unwanted kids....there are plenty in adoption agencies as we type. why don't you rush out and adopt them?
Click to expand...

I already covered that bud.

Just b/c I dont believe in murdering the unborn---I need to run down and adopt some kids????

WTF?
 
i think if a women was raped it is the only time it should be available

other than that someone was a irresponsible asshole and must live with the repercussions ,no easy way out for them
 
huntmaster said:


I already covered that bud.

Just b/c I dont believe in murdering the unborn---I need to run down and adopt some kids????

WTF?
Click to expand...

Nothing new, a very old weak argument thrown out by pro-abortionists. Very similar to the idea that one cannot be anti-abortion yet pro-capital punishment. It seems that they cannot distinguish the moral difference of innocent life and criminal life.

Another amusing contradiction is the fact that many of the vocal pro-abortionists are also pro-animal rights, and think that we need to throw millions of dollars to save things like the one-eyed, three testicaled, yellow belly sapsucker, or some shit.
 
huntmaster said:


I already covered that bud.

Just b/c I dont believe in murdering the unborn---I need to run down and adopt some kids????

WTF?
Click to expand...


Hmmm....

Well, there are plenty of starving children in this world. What's the difference?

Not a flame.. I'm curious.
 
and I have been giving money to Feed the Children in OK city for about 6 or 7 years.

if you are asking is it ok to have abortions b/c there are hungry kids out there the answer is no.
 
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