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AAS and the heart

  • Thread starter Thread starter BrothaBill
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BrothaBill

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So I post responses quite often and aswer PMS, so I thought Id post a thread that may help peoples questions. The following are some simple excerpts about tests most people will have or disease states.

HUHHHH! decrease in blood flow to the heart, with severe left ventricular hypertrophy you get ischemic changes to the inner endocardium b/c of the difficult perfusion, but AAS doesnt cause a cardiomyopathy of the LV unless predisposed or dramatic neglect of high blood pressure over an extended peroid, I agree with the caution but lets not scare people. There are ways to do AAS safely with lower doses and if worried about the RBC count then take a baby aspirin every day 81mg. LVH reverses itslef in most people when they quit the cycle, supposing people are normal in the first place.

As for the plaque rupture, it is a dramatic, often times unpredictable event-unfortunate for you , best wishes. Thats why the stress test wouldnt show it. Ill try to briefly explain the exam for others, obviously youll rapidly know alot about this yourself so this isnt necessarily for you.

1) The stress test is an important test to screen individuals who have risk factors or symptoms. They are not 100%.

2) Basic anatomy of the heart is that the heart is shaped like a football cut in half about the size of a fist, it sits anterior, inferior 60degrees to left, 30 degrees from the horizontal plane suspended by the base (great vessels), for the layperson- basically it sits to the left of chest and points down and to the left.
Over the top of the heart lies 3 coronary arteries that originate from the aorta (the major artery leaving the heart), these have several branches that feed the muscle of your heart. The heart after all is a muscular pump. There are two major concerns with the heart- like a house- the plumbing and the wiring. Plumbing causes heart attacks. The wiring causes heart rhythm disturbances- this obviously can kill you if the heart experience ventricular fibrillation. The plumbing can cause wiring problems, but usually not vice-versa, unless of course you have VFIB and no coordinated blood flow will reach the plumbing.

3) When people with risk factors, or chest pain talk to a doctor they are usually referred to cardiologist for a stress test. This is a screening test for plaque that has grown large enough to obstruct blood flow putting them at risk for a coronary artery to close off, thereby deprivng the muscle of the heart of nutrients- o2, but also very important is that the waste products are not carried away by the circulation and they build up as well. This process kills the muscle of the heart. A myocardial infarction. The plaque rupture increases this process, because once it ruptures your body sends clotting factors in the blood stream to that source, so a small plaque- that may have caused a problem years down the line if it had grown slowly, all of a sudden closes off.

4) A stress test (DAMN I HAVE TO EXPLAIN BRIEFLY AND LEAVE ALOT OUT) Basically recreates any symptoms or cardiac problems in a controlled environment. We have a crash cart and nitroglycerin and various life support medications ready for a problem.
3 basic types. The stress ekg, where a simple tracing of the electrical pattern of the heart is done while you walk(sometimes run in the later stages, but usually its the incline that gets people) on a treadmill. The electrical pattern of the heart will change across the section of heart that doesnt have blood flow, the Na/K ions dont function correctly. This is by far the most basic test used and is about 70% accurate b/c there are situations of false positives/negatives. SO, an imaging test is added to increase specificity. Either an echocardiogram or nuclear perfusion test. The echo uses ultrasound to visualize the heart muscle itself, you can actually confirm visually the heart muscle not moving. The nuclear test uses a radioactive tag, obviously if there is diminished blood flow to the heart, the tag will not be absorbed in certain sections of the heart muscle. Then a special camera takes a picture of the tag- it alomost looks like an infrared picture, the red is where more blood flow is, blacker if there is less. The nuc test is slightly superior, but is 3times as expensive and the stress echo is shorter and about 95%accurate. Careers have been made on which is a better test.

5) all of these tests pale in comparison to an angiogram (the gold standard) a very expensive test with a small risk and is only done if the above tests are positive or you are having a MI, or you have a damn good story- Like everytime I walk three blocks It feels like an elephant is sitting on my chest. LOL. This is where you go in and you are slightly unconsious. They insert a catheter into a major vessel, usually in the groin region, run it up to the heart and inject a dye directly into the coronary arteries. Then an xray is taken of this dye. This is not a common xray you see on tv. This xray lasts for some time like 7 seconds and is recorded like a movie of this dye filling the artery. You can see the narrowing of the artery, all of sudden you see the dye stop or the dye get real narrow.
6) The angiogram would have done nothing for your plaque rupture, if a plaque is large enough, we insert a small scaffolding called a stent, then blow it up and push the plaque out with a balloon. But if you had a 40% lesion, they wouldnt have done this b/c it can reocclude at a higher rate than if just left alone. Medical management would have been done aggresively though, but at least youre alive. And 15% reduction is not that bad, especially in the bottom of the heart. What is your ejectin fraction, do you know?
7) This leaves out a tremondous amount about structural abnormalities like mitral valve prolapse, aortic stenosis or other valvular issues, as well as diseases of the muscle etc, etc...but its wordy enough already.

Good Luck bro. AND lets all be safe by doing bloodwork and monitoring our blood pressure, dont use the store cuff either, most of you guys' arms are too big for them to be accurate(use a large cuff, go to a fire station- they should do it for free)
 
Injecting into the calf has unique risk that most people arent aware of. The problem is that there are numerous veins below the knee that empty to the popliteal vein (A DEEP VEIN). Some of you may read my posts on cardiac test I run injecting air into the vein to assess cardiac structure and that is not a problem if you get an air bubble in the vein. But This is slightly different if you inject through and damage or inject enough to compress a calf vein, then the blood flow may be interrupted enough to cause clot formation. The lowerlegs are not that good at moving blood and leave them vulnerable to clot. I had a young pt that had a stroke that formed in his calf b/c of trauma from a surfboard hitting the back of his leg and travelled up his vascular system across a small hole in his heart and up to the brain. This can also cause clot to form and the leg will swell and usually feel warm to the touch. THe clot can literally grow up the calf veins into the deep veins called DEEP VEIN THROMBOSIS. NBC reporter David Bloom died of that in Iraq when clot travelled up to his lungs and kills nearly as much as heart attacks in th US. Shooting in the calf can put you at a small risk for this and should avoided. If your leg is swollen go to your doctor or ER. They'll do a test called a leg venous duplex to rule out clot. Basically they use ultrasound to see of there is clot in the calves, I used to do it all the time and is noninvasive. Do ayourself a favor, if its swollen, warm to the touch, and some redness then get it checked out. Dont inject into the calf, the risk is small, but its not worth the risk, Ive seen people get these from sittin too long, long airplane rides, etc...It does happen
 
No, hard to see that would be a factor at all. LVH occurs naturally b/c of high bp so that may make you more susceptible to LVH with aas. I have done countless studies on aas users and I have found that the muscle of heart returns to the previous level once the heart experiences normal bp and the perosn hads quit aas. This presupposes you have a normal heart structure to begin with and that you cycle off aas. I have found that the fear of LVH is overblown scare tactic, unless of course you have it before hand. Hypertrophic cardiomyopathy. THis is an enlarged heart disease. I had a patient in the ER this afternoon with that. If she took aas, it might probably kill her. So 999 of you might think you are normal, but its that 1/1000 motherf**ker out there that drops dead after reading this post. Just get it checked out by a doctor. Easily diagnosed by EKG about100$.Oh yeah, Ill no longer continue with my feus with Nelson. I searched his posts looking for ammo and found that I agreed with him most of the time. Ill refrain from the BS I was doing until after I read his book.
 
yup, bicuspid aov. Ill pm you about what it is and what the treatment is on monday. It is the most common valve disease that we see. Most have 3 cspc, somr have two, others have four or five. IT can prgress to the 6th or 7th devade of life casusing a stivky aortic valve. That is a long term process. Just make sure you take antibiotices prior to dental work
 
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There is absolutely nothing you can do about the aortic valve. I dont care if you take 100* the dose. Nothing will prevent the disease progrssion. Ill pm you what exactly that is. I see it everyday so dont think youre special--freak. Noworries. I have an extra lumbar vertrabrae, ya dont see complaing that my parents drank too much Guiness back in Eireland.
 
Dang, half of these didnt post, I mustve forgot to submit reply. Any questions, Ive been good about answering so post and Ill give you a nonpersonal, educational response, b/c IM not your doctor. I do not fill prescriptions or source, so dont ask.
 
Up to 600mg/week based on a New England Journal of medicine, they had no real side effects, but thats outside of my scope. I just havent found enough evidence either way. Anecdotal evidence is, unfortunately is all we have, and especially since these cause different rxns in people. I think(which again is only and educated guess, and defer to the more experience users) that for what a normal, non-professional, healthy guy that 200-400mg will do them just fine to get them where they want to be. The problem is I cant define what people "want to be". Again, outisde of my scope, defer to the mods or Nelson on that.
Thanks,
Luciasbrown
 
thanks, I think that I have read that article. How long does it generally take for left ventrical hypertrophy?
 
Decades usually from mild blood pressure increases. Obviously mild=long time, mod=shorter time, severe= Quite quickly if you are taking AAS, so check it out often. This can cause filling problems of the heart. For the longest time, people were concerned about the squeeze of the heart. A heart attack caused less squeeze. But now, we know that if the ventricular muscle gets stiff(say from high bp) then its the same as not being able to squeeze. Afterall, if you can fill the heart chamber, then you can squeeze much out. A stiff, noncompliant ventricle will be the next phase of cardiology and medicines
 
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