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 What do you think?
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| Author | Topic: What do you think? |
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JayeLynn Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 183) |
posted June 27, 2000 02:17 PM
  
My boss is a long term natural (as in no a/s) builder for years...say better than 12 now. Stops me in the hall today and says that he just went to the DR for blood tests due to unusual fatigue. Dr.s flipped because his creatine levels are 6 points higher than max healthy on their scales. He has been known to supplement creatine in his post workout meal. The creatine levels were somehow extracted from liver blood samples (?). First thing that came to my mind is what are the natural creatine levels in a healthy bodybuilder? Are they flying off the handle because they don't understand, or did he actually do dammage through creatine comsumption? The DR.s didn't restrict his red meat intake, just told him to get off the creatine and protein powders. What do you think? ------------------ IP: Logged |
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bikinimom Amateur Bodybuilder (Total posts: 63) |
posted June 27, 2000 02:30 PM
Don't know what to think because I am ignorant to this topic. But I am very interested to hear from someone in the know as I have recently begun creatine supplementation and have so far, had a positive result. (with training, i.e. amazing pumps!) IP: Logged |
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masterhunker Amateur Bodybuilder (Total posts: 20) |
posted June 27, 2000 03:08 PM
BM-have you had a lot of water retention w/ creatine? I don't want to take anything else before I know exactly what it is going to do to my body. I've heard a lot of great stuff about it-but am worried about looking like the Stay-Puffed Marshmellow Man (woman). IP: Logged |
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MS Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 392) |
posted June 27, 2000 03:15 PM
Liver Blood samples??? Did your boss specifically ask for a creatine measurement, because it is not routinely monitored in tests. Are you sure they weren't measuring creatinine? This is routinely checked, and the similarity in spelling often misleads bodybuilders. ------------------ IP: Logged |
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WarLobo Moderator (Total posts: 720) |
posted June 27, 2000 03:29 PM
I am with MS on this one, just looked an old blood work up and it's not creatine....it is creatinine. And also bun/creatinine was on there. Late Lobo IP: Logged |
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JayeLynn Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 183) |
posted June 27, 2000 03:35 PM
Youre right MS it is Creatinine. I don't know the difference  I have his test in front of me and they tested CS/HDL/IBC+/CBC/PBG and /T4 Does this necessarily imply that his kidneys are going south? What do your numbers look like Lobo? ------------------ IP: Logged |
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bikinimom Amateur Bodybuilder (Total posts: 63) |
posted June 27, 2000 03:49 PM
MH - I haven't had a problem a with water retention, yet been using a universal product called Lava for @ 4 weeks now (one shake per day, without "loading phase" was told it was an unnecessary waste) and been pretty happy with the results. I did notice I seemed to be holding a little more water than usual over my calves (I hold most of my water over my legs) around the time of my last period, but not enough to earn the "Stay-Puff Marshmellow Girl" Title. And when cycle was over, so was little bit I noticed. So for all I know I could've held that little bit with or without the creatine. Anyway I'm still bulking So BIGGER IS BETTER and as long as I can turn the heads of those cute little 18 year old boys, IT'S ALL GOOD! IP: Logged |
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JayeLynn Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 183) |
posted June 27, 2000 05:28 PM
bump. MS, Lobo... anyone? I'm not in a state of panic, I'm very curious. The boss ( who is also a good friend ) is a bit concerned. ------------------ IP: Logged |
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WarLobo Moderator (Total posts: 720) |
posted June 27, 2000 05:52 PM
Don't have the paper work right now (back at work) But I'll run it by my nurse friend in a few Late Lobo IP: Logged |
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paladin Amateur Bodybuilder (Total posts: 6) |
posted June 27, 2000 06:19 PM
Hello, First, it is great that you're concerned with your friends labs. Too many people ignore those checkups and run into trouble that could have been prevented. Second, I'm just a medical student with no professional liability so take anything I say with a grain of salt and a tall cold one, besides everyone knows med students don't know shit:-) Healthy kidneys remove wastes and excess fluid from the blood. Blood tests show whether the kidneys are failing to remove wastes. Creatinine is a waste product that comes from meat protein in the diet and also comes from the normal wear and tear on the body. Bodybuilders often supplement with creatine, eat more meat, and tear down their muscles more often. Because of this it is not that uncommon to have slightly elevated creatinine levels. Higher levels may be a sign that the kidneys are not working properly. As kidney disease progresses, the level of creatinine in the blood increases. I don't think your friends levels are anything to be alarmed at but I did notice that several other tests (chol, trig, etc) were higher than normal. I think he needs to talk with someone knowledgable about changing his diet to improve these values. We only have one body and it should be treated like a temple. Have his labs done monthly to monitor these values for improvement. Also, send him over to www.webmd.com. It is as good a online reference as the gold standard, the physicians desk reference. If you have any other questions feel free to e-mail me. It's summer time and I don't have much to do except train and fish:-) Matt ------------------ IP: Logged |
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bikinimom Amateur Bodybuilder (Total posts: 63) |
posted June 27, 2000 06:51 PM
So this all means that I'm NOT going to die from creatine? IP: Logged |
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JayeLynn Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 183) |
posted June 27, 2000 07:17 PM
Honestly, the only number in the six indices that concerns me is his cholesterol. Everything else makes sense. An important note here is that the protein index that the attending physician referenced is 60g. !!! No BBer limits their protein comsumption to 60g. If that is the case, then all BBers register high on the protein related indices. I'm looking for some data that shows that these numbers necessitate a problem. If I eat too many carrots, my skin will turn the same color as if I were jaundice....doesn't make me jaundice. ------------------ [This message has been edited by JayeLynn (edited June 27, 2000).] IP: Logged |
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MS Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 392) |
posted June 27, 2000 09:27 PM
Creatinine is MAINLY derived from creatine turnover in skeletal muscle (and hence plasma creatinine is related to lean body mass). The creatine in skeletal muscle comes mostly from endogenous production in the liver and pancreas. Intake of creatine from the diet is merely supplemental to your own production, but can push plasma creatinine levels up.
Neither of the levels in your boss's test are alarmingly high considering his diet and supplement habits. So NO, you won't die from taking 2-5 grams of creatine every day.
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JayeLynn Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 183) |
posted June 28, 2000 12:31 PM
bump. Still waiting on the wolf. MS - this test was also done 6 months ago and the numbers/concerns were different. I'll see if I can get the cholesterol ratios and will post the other test when it comes in. ------------------ IP: Logged |
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