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  Alternative to DNP

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Author Topic:   Alternative to DNP
Iean

Amateur Bodybuilder

Posts: 165
From:Evansville, IN. U.S.
Registered: Jan 2000

posted September 03, 2000 01:41 AM

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It has been a long time since I have been here. Just learned something in my ER rotation that is pretty cool. There is a product that can be obtained quite easily that is a uncoupler of oxidative phosphorylation. It is used to sometimes anethetize fish, it is called (rotenone).

I guess that it is a Andean tuber. Here is some info I found on another web site. Email me if you learn anymore about this or if you try it. It is supposed to be less toxic than DNP but is harder to absorb through the skin without the use of some type of vehicle.
----------------------------------------

Ahipa

Common names
ahipa: Peru
frijol chuncho, villu: Bolivia
huitoto (Aymara): Bolivia

Crop adaptation. Ahipa is grown in family orchards, rarely in larger fields on its own. Although it has been found at sea level, it is more commonly grown between 1,000 and 2,300 meters.

Varieties. This species, known as the Andean Pachyrhizus, has little diversity, unlike other related species, such as P. erosus in tropical areas.

Nutritional value. Ahipa resembles yac�n, with its high content of water, although it can also be a good source of potassium and vitamin C. Its starch is easily digested.

Uses. This root is eaten after being boiled and accompanies dishes as a substitute for cassava. Because of the likely toxic content of rotenone in its leaves and stems, it could serve as a natural insecticide.


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bigrand

Amateur Bodybuilder

Posts: 242
From:Antioch, CA, United States
Registered: Apr 2000

posted September 03, 2000 02:08 AM

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cool shit bro, ill look into it.
Im trying to become a major info source on uncouplers (DNP, Usnic Acid, ect.)


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cockdezl

Pro Bodybuilder

Posts: 311
From:
Registered: 2000

posted September 03, 2000 02:30 AM

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Rotenone is not a protonophore like DNP, but a proton pump inhibitor.

Another class of protonophores are anacardic acids, found in cashew nut shells.

Here's an interesting study:

Pharmacol Res 1995 Dec;32(6):383-9

"Protective actions of L-carnitine and acetyl-L-carnitine on the neurotoxicity evoked by mitochondrial uncoupling or inhibitors."

Virmani MA, Biselli R, Spadoni A, Rossi S, Corsico N, Calvani M, Fattorossi A, De Simone C, Arrigoni-Martelli E

Sigma-Tau, Pomezia, Rome.

The mechanism for the pathological increase in cell death in various disease states e.g. HIV immunodefficiency or even ageing or Alzheimer's disease, occurs by complex and as yet undefined mechanism(s) related to immunological, virological or biochemical disturbances (i.e. energy depletion, oxidative stress, increased protein degradation). We have studied mitochondrial uncoupling or inhibitor toxicity on neurones at the cellular level and at the mitochondrial level using rhodamine (Rh123) and 10-nonylacridine orange (NAO) fluorescence with confocal microscopy. Blockade of the mitochondrial chain complexes at various points was studied. The possible protective effects of the compound L-carnitine, which plays a central role in mitochondrial function, was tested in this form of neurotoxicity. It appears that L-carnitine and its acetylated form, acetyl-L-carnitine, can attenuate the cell damage, as assessed by lactate dehydrogenase (LDH) release, evoked by the uncoupler, p-(trifluoromethoxy)phenylhdyrazone (FCCP), or by the inhibitors, 3-nitropropionic acid (3-NPA) or rotenone. Further, the FCCP-induced inhibition of Rh123 uptake was antagonized by the preincubation of cells with L-carnitine. Since such neurotoxic mechanisms may be operating in the various pathological forms of myotoxicity and neurotoxicity, these observations suggest potential for a therapeutic approach.


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Iean

Amateur Bodybuilder

Posts: 165
From:Evansville, IN. U.S.
Registered: Jan 2000

posted September 03, 2000 02:43 AM

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sorry bud but does it not do the same thing? Do you even know how DNP actually works? Well, The 2 nitro groups create a resonace structure that favors the ionization of the proton on the hydroxyl group. This is because DNP has the NO2 in a Meta and ortho postion. this ionization creates an ion that when it comes into close contact with the Mitochondrial innner membrane itcroses the membrane and picks up a proton. Now it is very soulable through the inner membrane (inner membrane is 80% protein) and can carry the proton back into the matrix and result in dissolution of the gradient. If you knew that already sorry, I am in a pissy mood because I have not slept in abouit 28 hours.


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HUCKLEBERRY FINNaplex

Elite Bodybuilder

Posts: 988
From:Timbuktu
Registered: Aug 2000

posted September 03, 2000 02:48 AM

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Hopefully lack of sleep is the reason behind all the typos.J.K.


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Iean

Amateur Bodybuilder

Posts: 165
From:Evansville, IN. U.S.
Registered: Jan 2000

posted September 03, 2000 02:54 AM

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yeah, just a little longer before I get to chart and go home.


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HUCKLEBERRY FINNaplex

Elite Bodybuilder

Posts: 988
From:Timbuktu
Registered: Aug 2000

posted September 03, 2000 02:58 AM

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Get some rest bro.It's maddening staying up that long.


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Iean

Amateur Bodybuilder

Posts: 165
From:Evansville, IN. U.S.
Registered: Jan 2000

posted September 03, 2000 03:07 AM

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it is part of my 100K education/job


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Pharm Animal

Amateur Bodybuilder

Posts: 291
From:Honolulu, Hawaii
Registered: Aug 2000

posted September 03, 2000 04:25 AM

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iean, great info, thanks bro!
i love it when people on here give great answers like that...gives us that are willing to learn something to digest.

------------------
>|===|---
Take care,
P.A.


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Pharm Animal

Amateur Bodybuilder

Posts: 291
From:Honolulu, Hawaii
Registered: Aug 2000

posted September 03, 2000 04:35 AM

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PS....duchaine said another alternative to DNP is dinitrocresol....it is more potent, but also about 10x more toxic than DNP...i wouldn't chance it, even with DNP

i tried DNP once and thought i was going to die....anyone that takes any of that stuff, good luck and god bless you

------------------
>|===|---
Take care,
P.A.


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bigrand

Amateur Bodybuilder

Posts: 242
From:Antioch, CA, United States
Registered: Apr 2000

posted September 03, 2000 02:52 PM

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Damn, yall know too much.
What are your courses of study Iean and Cockdezal? I wanna major in biology, and in particular, stuff like this. E-mail me.
Ive taken Celluar Bio for a year so far and a Chemistry. Now, im taking all my shity GE classes like POLSC and HIST and CALC.


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MEDIC

Cool Novice

Posts: 27
From:NY
Registered: Aug 2000

posted September 03, 2000 03:06 PM

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There is nothing better than coming on here daily and seeing such great info

Keep it up--

Medic

[This message has been edited by MEDIC (edited September 03, 2000).]


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cockdezl

Pro Bodybuilder

Posts: 311
From:
Registered: 2000

posted September 03, 2000 05:18 PM

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Rotenone is used widely as an insecticide and ichthyocide. It does not act the same way DNP does, but the end result is the same. Rotenone acts by inhibiting NADH dehydrogenase, which reduces the proton gradient in the mitochondria. DNP reduces the proton gradient due to the fact that it is very lipophilic and is a weak acid. There are numerous weak acids that are known to be uncouplers: salicylic acid, long chain unsaturated fatty acids, benzoic acid, propionic acid, usnic acid, etc. These all act by diffusing across the mitochondrial membrane and accept protons, which reduces the efficacy of ATP synthase.

Rotenone has a higher LD50 than DNP, around 100-300mg/kg bodyweight, but is still looks like a crappy drug for fat loss.


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Iean

Amateur Bodybuilder

Posts: 165
From:Evansville, IN. U.S.
Registered: Jan 2000

posted September 03, 2000 06:06 PM

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Well said cockdezl. Big grand go to medical school or something. I am in my third year of medical school. In undergrad take biochem, endocrinology, and metabolism. When I get my license next year I will begin to pursue specializing in Endocrinolgy and I would like to eventually open a health center and a longevity program (hence admin. hormones). I will not grow old and feeble without one hell of a FIGHT!!!!


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bigrand

Amateur Bodybuilder

Posts: 242
From:Antioch, CA, United States
Registered: Apr 2000

posted September 03, 2000 07:31 PM

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cool shit!
How much math and Physics did you take? I hear its required but have yet to see any big correlation between those and Biology, physiology, ect.
Just out of curiosity, where do you go to school?


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Iean

Amateur Bodybuilder

Posts: 165
From:Evansville, IN. U.S.
Registered: Jan 2000

posted September 03, 2000 08:34 PM

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All you really will ever use is college algebra and Physics (just the newtonian, classic, and statics, the electrostatics shit blows!) I never did and never will care about what will happen if i place an electron in a damned magnetic field.


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bigrand

Amateur Bodybuilder

Posts: 242
From:Antioch, CA, United States
Registered: Apr 2000

posted September 03, 2000 08:49 PM

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Exactly, Physics blows long and hard.
Thanx for all the info bro!!!


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