Not really understanding Needsize's 5x5 routine

[Heahy Minister]

First off I'm just asking a q so please don't take this post as offensive.

I've read up on the 5x5 routine and am not really understanding it all. I understand the routine, but don't fully understand the concept you can say.

Basically you pick a weight (a weight challenging enough for your 5th set to eek out 5 reps), do 5 sets at 5 reps each at that SAME weight throughout, then each week you up the weight.

What I don't get is that the first 2-3 sets you are essentially not challenging your body because if at that 5th set you can muster out 5 reps, the sets before you can probably get much more reps out but are stopping at only 5 reps.

The first set you could probably get out a good 12 or so reps lets say, but stop at 5. So you're not really challenging your body at all for that first set. What exactly are you doing to your body for this first set if you stop prematurely at 5 when you can get out more reps? It would seem that you simply tire out your body, but you don't really "push it".

The second set you can probably muster out around 10 or so, but stop again at 5 so you are quitting the set before any real challenge to your body is imposed.

Wouldn't it be safe to say that really the only sets you are challenging your body is the 4th and 5th? It seems like the first 2-3 sets are sort of warm-ups, if at all since they are so few reps.

This is not what I'm understanding. No flame or offense intended. Does anyone understand what I'm trying to say?

 

[Eddie_Johnson]

Yeah, But the idea is to add 5 lbs every week, for as long as you can.

 

[slobberknocker]

It works. I did it I think last winter when I was just trying to bulk up, and it definitely put some good size on me.

 

[Mike_Rojas]

You don't need to train to failure on every set to make good gains. Also, just because a set isn't all out doesn't mean it has no benefit - you could hit those sets explosively.

 

[sorerotators]

Its works. I've been doing 5x5 for about 5 months now. Love it!

And wanted to say thanks to Needsize for bringing it to our attention.

 

[needsize]

its all about the progressive resistance, if you keep adding weight every week to the bar, failure or not you will grow. I've been doing the same thing since my show, but with only 2 sets of 6-8 reps. I've continually added weight every week, and although they werent really to failure, i've grown like crazy, and my strength levels are pretty much the highest they've been, with no end in sight.
Moral to this story, set/rep scheme isnt really that important, the key is progresssive resistance

 

[Heahy Minister]

I understand what you are saying... and thanks for the comments.

Can't you also go with progressive resistance with a typical pyramiding down set scheme (ie 12, 10, 8, 6, 4) and still add a bit of weight every week?

I'm definitely going to try your routine Needsize. I like it the positive feedback I've read and hope you didn't mind the q's.

 

[sorerotators]

its all about the progressive resistance, if you keep adding weight every week to the bar, failure or not you will grow. I've been doing the same thing since my show, but with only 2 sets of 6-8 reps. I've continually added weight every week, and although they werent really to failure, i've grown like crazy, and my strength levels are pretty much the highest they've been, with no end in sight.
Moral to this story, set/rep scheme isnt really that important, the key is progresssive resistance

Very true BNeedsize. BUT, i've never been able to continually add weight like i can on 5x5. Hardly a week goes by that i dont set a PR on my main compounds. Theres just no end in sight man! I love you man!

 

[sorerotators]

I want to add that i switch up my main compounds about every month. Even when i'm still progressing.

 

[athlete0185]

just started the 5x5 routine last week and i love it. i was overtraining before and using this i get a great pump and walk out of the gym feeling good. the workouts arent too long so its great. ive decided to post my 5x5 workout. any comments appreciated.

monday - chest and triceps
5x5- flat bench db press
2x8 incline bench db press
2x8 flat bench db flys
2x8 dips for chest
---
5x5 behind the neck db pullover
2x8 skullcrushers
2x8 pulldown tricep machine

tues - shoulders
5x5 - seated military db press
2x8 front raises
2x8 shrugs
2x8 (either upright rows or side raises)

wed - off

thurs - back and biceps
5x5 seated rows
2x8 pullups
2x8 deadlifts
2x8 (either t bar row or close lat pulldowns)
---
5x5 standing curls
2x8 cable pull ins for biceps
2x8 icarian bicep machine

fri - off

sat - off

sun - legs (quads hams and calves) (taking it easy on legs until off season for sports)
5x5 - squats
2x8 barbell lunges
5x5 hamstring curl machine
2x8 good mornings
5x15 standing calf machine

 

[Eddie_Johnson]

Why not do 5x5 for Deadlifts, and do 2x8 for Seated rows?

BTW: I think you broke the sarcasm meteor
on your comment about leg day. lol

 

[needsize]

Very true BNeedsize. BUT, i've never been able to continually add weight like i can on 5x5. Hardly a week goes by that i dont set a PR on my main compounds. Theres just no end in sight man! I love you man!

the 5 rep range allows you so much more strength and progression that any other, thats why it works so well. Myself, I dont want to be too strong right now, hence the higher rep range.

athlete0185, I've got a few thoughts on your routine. Ditch the front raises, complete waste of time as they get more than enough work on the other exercises, and the stronger you make them the more they will take over during other exercises like bench. I would also always have side laterals in there, nothing else compares for width than combining over head presses with laterals. And i woudl switch up and do 5x5 for deads. Solid routine though

 

[athlete0185]

yeah i think ill do that. go to the deads 5x5 and ditch the front raises. my damn lower back is sore for 4 days after doing deadlifts though

 

[needsize]

I dont get sore from deads anymore for some reason. I;'ve been going light lately but hit up 425lbs for a set of 12 reps last week, and felt nothing the next day, kinda strange

 

[athlete0185]

hey needside i have a question i was thinking about today, it might have already been answered before. on the 2x8-10 exercises, should those also be progressive resistence, or can i say do incline bench at X amount of weight and then raise it on the next set if i feel it wasnt enough. or should the weight stay constant and progress like the 5x5 exercise?

 

[Toozee]

hey needside i have a question i was thinking about today, it might have already been answered before. on the 2x8-10 exercises, should those also be progressive resistence, or can i say do incline bench at X amount of weight and then raise it on the next set if i feel it wasnt enough. or should the weight stay constant and progress like the 5x5 exercise?

Usually if I can get 10 reps on the 2x8-10 exercises I up the weight a little.

 

[needsize]

yup, if you can get 10 reps on the first set, I would raise it for the next workout. You needn't raise the weight on both sets either. For example, say this week you incline db press the 105's for 10, then 8 reps. next week do the 110's, but if you only get 8 reps on the first set, instead of using the 110's again, drop to the 105's so you can get at least 8 reps

 

[Slyder190]

Bump for a good bro with a good routine

I hope I don't jinx myself on this one, but I gotta give Needsize and the 5x5 program props. NS is always helping bros on this board and his program is a solid one. I've made more progress on his routine than I have in a long time - naturally I might add (but not for too much longer).

 

[needsize]

Re: Bump for a good bro with a good routine

I hope I don't jinx myself on this one, but I gotta give Needsize and the 5x5 program props. NS is always helping bros on this board and his program is a solid one. I've made more progress on his routine than I have in a long time - naturally I might add (but not for too much longer).

I love to hear that stuff

 

[Shak]

The first set you could probably get out a good 12 or so reps lets say, but stop at 5. So you're not really challenging your body at all for that first set. What exactly are you doing to your body for this first set if you stop prematurely at 5 when you can get out more reps? It would seem that you simply tire out your body, but you don't really "push it".

The second set you can probably muster out around 10 or so, but stop again at 5 so you are quitting the set before any real challenge to your body is imposed.

Wouldn't it be safe to say that really the only sets you are challenging your body is the 4th and 5th? It seems like the first 2-3 sets are sort of warm-ups, if at all since they are so few reps.

the first month on 5X5, your workouts may not seem as challenging to you. however, as you increase your weight, you're workouts are going to get really tough, really quick.

i just hit a plateau on bench, so i had to go down to 5X3 for a couple weeks and i'm struggling to get three up on each set. 5X5 is awesome...just use those beginning weeks to perfect your form and you'll be "pushing it" in no time.

 

[CobraUTAH]

It seems weird at first because you've never done anything like it. I had a max bench of 260 after just 3 months my max was at 290. I was doing 5x5 with 240 when I was at my best right before maxing. I had only been able to get maybe 2 reps for 1 set of 240 before that. I started my 5x5 at 190 way below what I could actually have done, but the progressive resistance works and it didn't stop me until 245 but more because I changed my routine for a cutting cycle. Anyway just stick with it start nice and low and keep adding the 5 pounds a week. Give your body and mind time to get used to the 5 rep range and make it explosive make it feel hard squeeze the chest and make it work because although it seems easy now when you get the weight up it will be plenty hard. I'm currently back to 240 for 5x5 which I plan to do tomorrow, and it will be quite hard on all sets. When you get trained for and strong at the 5x5 your body learns to go all out for 5 reps 5 times in a row it's much different than a pyramid or any other routine. IT WORKS!! I use it on every muscle group, and I'm bigger and stronger for it in just 9 months with three wasted months in between, cutting sucks!!

 

[athlete0185]

second week, 1st day of chest + triceps today on the 5x5. felt EXPLOSIVE. i was just on a roll. pumping out the sets left and right got in and out of the gym in 45 min with a full workout it was unreal.

 

[Heahy Minister]

What about if increase the weight by 10lbs for the first few weeks?

 

[athlete0185]

^^^

i think youll hit a plateau rather quickly or come to a point where you won't be progressing every workout and youll have to stay at the same weight until you can do the whole 5x5 and still be able to increase and do 5x5 for the next week.

 

[needsize]

^^^

i think youll hit a plateau rather quickly or come to a point where you won't be progressing every workout and youll have to stay at the same weight until you can do the whole 5x5 and still be able to increase and do 5x5 for the next week.

exactly, stick with just 5lbs. Even when deadlifting over 500lbs for reps, I still only add 5lbs per week

 

[Destroyer03]

Needsize, is this your own personal workout routine? or did someone pass it down to you?

 

[needsize]

there is an oldschool version of the 5x5 from decades ago, but its very different from this one. This approach is something I came up with, after sitting down with a competitive bodybuilder and nationally ranked powerlifter, to try and get the best of both worlds

 

[JKurz1]

Needsize...could I/we see your current split? Much appreciated bro - I'm stuck between DC training and 5x5.......like em both.....Probably will do one for part of the year and then the other....everything I read says the constant tention (DC stytle) is the way to go, coupled with the higher reps.......but, I do think both work very well........

 

[needsize]

Needsize...could I/we see your current split? Much appreciated bro - I'm stuck between DC training and 5x5.......like em both.....Probably will do one for part of the year and then the other....everything I read says the constant tention (DC stytle) is the way to go, coupled with the higher reps.......but, I do think both work very well........

by split do you mean which bodyparts I train on which days, or do you mean the sets and reps. I'm currently not doing 5x5 as I had to change my training after the show

 

[JKurz1]

Just curious as to both...how you are training right now....what your split looks like..and what reps/sets/exercises you are using....thanks bra - karma up!

 

[JKurz1]

cool?

 

[needsize]

I normally train 4 days a week, and have 3 rest days, but i have dropped a rest day, and am training on a 6 day cycle instead of a 7
day 1 chest/calves
day 2 back/shoulders
day 3 rest
day 4 bis/tris/calves
day 5 quads/calves/abs/hams
day 6 rest
day 7 start rotation over again

Here are some samples of what I am doing
quads
squat 2 sets to failure 6-8 reps
leg press 2 sets to failure 8-10 reps
hack squats 1 set to failure, 8-10 reps, with a drop set

chest
bench
2 sets to failure 6-8 reps
incline dumbell press 2 sets to failure 8-10 reps
incline flyes 2 sets to failure 8-10 reps
pec dec 1 set to failure 8-10 reps with a drop set

this gives you an idea of what I'm up to. Its working great, I now weight the most I've ever weighed, 240lbs at just under 5'9", bf is 10-11%, and strength is going crazy.
Some of my workouts are different, ie, back shoulder day I have 2 routines that I alternate between every workout. One has deads in it, and the pullups and rows are lighter, the other one has no deads and is all about addding weight to the chins and rows. This is to address my upper back, which I realized when competing is a weakness

 

[JKurz1]

that's one of the best routines I've seen before.....honestly.....I'm assumin the 2 sets are yuour two working sets...couple with a few armups on each exercise? How long are you in the gym? 45 minutes? I may have to steal it, although I'm a bit surprised you are doing shoulder and chest on back-to-back days.......how's your diet look? Could you give me a sample of your daily food routine? Carbs? Breads,pastas, PROTEIN BARS..lol...thnx for the help bro

 

[needsize]

I've trained back/shoulders the day after chest for years, only way I can work things in the way I want. Including a very thorough warmup, I'm in the gym for 60-75 minutes.
This is my meals for today, to give you an idea
meal 1 eggs and toast
meal 2 oatmeal and whey shake (then I train 2 hours later)
meal 3 shake with 40 grams whey 70 grams dextrose
meal 4 1/2 box kraft dinner and a can of tuna
meal 5 1/2 box kraft dinner and a can of tuna
meal 6 1/2 container cottage cheese, 1-2 sandwiches and skim milk
meal 7 same as # 6
meal 8 whey shake in skim milk before bed

 

[Arnold'sApprentice]

NS do you avoid breakfast cereals?

 

[needsize]

NS do you avoid breakfast cereals?

I dont avoid them, just not filling enough

 

[from zero]

After some time contemplating, I think I'm gonna get on this program again after my layoff.

Nothing to do with anyone else's posts, but I thought I'd share.

 

[JKurz1]

Needsize, thanks a lot bro - so, you are an advocate of bread....whole wheat? Looks like you have half a loaf daily.....not bad.....and is that kraft mac and cheese I smell? I got back and shoulders today.....could you shoot me a sample of your workout? I'll shoot the karma!

 

[JKurz1]

Damn it..I have to spread it around...how do I do that?

 

[JKurz1]

/

 

[JKurz1]

Needsize.....the back routine which incorporates the heavy rows...I know you said you have two, but that's my plan of attack for today...thanks bra -

 

[needsize]

I'm running insulin right now, so the bread is a good way to get some fat free carbs in. I do love my kraft dinner, and you cant beat the price...
My non deadlift back/shoulder workout looks like this
weighted chins 3 sets to failure
t bar rows 3 x failure
shrugs 4 x failure
military press 3 x failure
side laterals 3 x failure
bent over laterals 1 x failure

I'm doing a few more sets on back than other part as I need to bring it up for the next level of competition

 

[JKurz1]

One more for ya Needsize, then I'll quit.....I really appreciate the help........Quads/Ham day......how does your routine look? I'm pretty sure the quad side looks a little like this:


quads
squat 2 sets to failure 6-8 reps
leg press 2 sets to failure 8-10 reps
hack squats 1 set to failure, 8-10 reps, with a drop set

thanks bro - oh, how many warmups are you doing for each exercise?

 

[needsize]

The warmups for squats look like this
squat 45lbs x 10 reps
135 x 8 reps
225 x 5 reps
315 x 3-5 reps....then my 2 working sets.
After doing squats, I do 2-3 reps with 2/3 of my working weight for leg press, just to get the feel of it, no wamups for hacks

Hams, I start with stiff legged deads, 1x8 on 135lbs, 1x8 on 225lbs, then working weight to failure for 2 sets. Then I finish with 1-2 sets of lying curls.
Thats it
Feel free to keep asking any questions that pop up

 

[JKurz1]

Been following it to a tee and LOVE it......you da man........great pump...quick, intense workout.....never felt better.......although I switch up the hams....I put 2 25's on each side for 6...then add 10lbs for 6 then add 10lb for 6, and keep going til you fail below 6.....truly awesome........

Since you dont mind, last one is Arms......break it down for me bro .....

 

[JKurz1]

AND.....how would you shake this up: 6'3 190 and trying to bulk up CLEANLY......little fat accum...I'm about 7-8% right now and dont want to go over 10......thanks bro



630am
1 full cup of egg whites
3/4 cup steel cuts

930
Myoplex meal replacement, touch of skim

1230
7-8oz of lean meat
green beans
huge salad w/ broc, cali, etc.....

train at 4

5:30
carb/whey shake

630
1 cup egg whites and a pack of tuna OR 6-8 oz of lean meat
steamed veggies
salad

930
huge protein shake w/ skim and egg whites
4-5 huge handfuls of peanuts
some veggies a ff dip

10pm bed

 

[needsize]

the diet is hard to judge as everyones metabolism is different. That seems like a really lean diet for a bulker, but really only you can be the judge. If you are gaining mass, then your diet is right on, if not, add calories. And if you're turning into a fat ass, cut them back

 

[JKurz1]

How about that Arm routine bro? My weight hasn't moved for awhile! I guess I need to add some calories.....

 

[needsize]

bis
standing barbell curls 5x5
incline dumbell curls 2x8-10
preachers 2x8-10

tris
close grip bench 5x5
weighted dips 2x8-10
skull crushers 2x8-10

even when not doing 5x5 those are the exercises I generally stick with

 

[MsBeverlyHills]

needsize-

day 1 chest/calves
day 2 back/shoulders
day 3 rest
day 4 bis/tris/calves
day 5 quads/calves/abs/hams
day 6 rest
day 7 start rotation over again

thats almost exactly my routine-- but 3Xwk/Calves??? yikes-- whats up w/that???

 

[Backlash]

I gotta question for ya needsize, probably not worthing starting another thread on this. I hit a plateau on my incline bb press (my main chest move) at 175 for 5x5. So I started doing 5x3 but I feel like I'm about to plateau there after just 3 more workouts (at 190). Should I go back to 175 and try that for 5x5 again or just switch to regular bench and do 5x5 with 185 or something (my flat bench 1RM is 245)? Thanks!

 

[needsize]

I gotta question for ya needsize, probably not worthing starting another thread on this. I hit a plateau on my incline bb press (my main chest move) at 175 for 5x5. So I started doing 5x3 but I feel like I'm about to plateau there after just 3 more workouts (at 190). Should I go back to 175 and try that for 5x5 again or just switch to regular bench and do 5x5 with 185 or something (my flat bench 1RM is 245)? Thanks!

i would say go back to 5x5 on the weight you left it at, 175lbs. If that doesnt work, you could try flat for a bit, the change would help and you'd be stronger on it too

MsBeverlyHills, I never noticed that I was doing them 3x weekly, but it is working, they are already the biggest they've been, which doesnt say much, but I'll do anything to get them up to par