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My experiences with Dermacrine, a new anabolic OTC supp

RottenWillow

RottenWillow

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I'm currently on my 6th day of using this topical product which is described by it's manufacturer as increasing testosterone and decreasing estrogen. A blurb from the Dermacrine site states: "Dermacrine is a topically applied dietary supplement that dramatically increases testosterone, while maintaining a safe balance of estrogen and DHT." FYI it's offered by one of this board's newest sponsors.

There are about 178 bajllion threads on it in the AAS and supp forums if you'd like to read more about the experiences of other users, however I'm the only female to post any results. The manufacturer reccomends 4-5 lotion pumps or 30-40 sprays applied to the chest and/or back. No guidelines for women are listed, but the company's sponsor suggested 10 sprays for me. Being me I went with 15. :D

So my personal observations thus far. By the third day I seemed to have improved energy, despite not getting enough sleep. My endurance was noticably better and my sex drive was clearly up beginning yesterday and continuing through today (the 5th and 6th days). Too early to report any strength or muscle gains.

A quick word about my sex drive...it has been quite poor for a few months now. I was even considering seeing an endo to have my T levels checks. The fact that for the first time in months I've been getting spontaneously horny is very significant. I went from never being interested, to being interested last night, again this morning, and again this evening. My fiance really likes Dermacrine.

The bottle is supposed to last about 30 days for a man, but I expect it to last me about 10 weeks given my dosage. I'll update this thread about once weekly to document my observations.
 
Hey cool stuff girl - I was acutally wondering about that today.. .let us know how it goes! Anything else you might expect to see w/ increase T / lower E -- oily skin, acne, "aggression", sense of well-being, oily hair, etc?
 
See guys, I told you a little “rub off” on your girl wouldn’t be a problem…. :p

-Pp

In all seriousness, please be careful, and take a break after a couple weeks.

The masculinizing side effects manifest very slowly and inconspicuously. The woman using the andro hardly notice a negative effect until one day somebody points it out the obvious…
 
RottenWillow said:
I'm currently on my 6th day of using this topical product which is described by it's manufacturer as increasing testosterone and decreasing estrogen. A blurb from the Dermacrine site states: "Dermacrine is a topically applied dietary supplement that dramatically increases testosterone, while maintaining a safe balance of estrogen and DHT." FYI it's offered by one of this board's newest sponsors.

There are about 178 bajllion threads on it in the AAS and supp forums if you'd like to read more about the experiences of other users, however I'm the only female to post any results. The manufacturer reccomends 4-5 lotion pumps or 30-40 sprays applied to the chest and/or back. No guidelines for women are listed, but the company's sponsor suggested 10 sprays for me. Being me I went with 15. :D

So my personal observations thus far. By the third day I seemed to have improved energy, despite not getting enough sleep. My endurance was noticably better and my sex drive was clearly up beginning yesterday and continuing through today (the 5th and 6th days). Too early to report any strength or muscle gains.

A quick word about my sex drive...it has been quite poor for a few months now. I was even considering seeing an endo to have my T levels checks. The fact that for the first time in months I've been getting spontaneously horny is very significant. I went from never being interested, to being interested last night, again this morning, and again this evening. My fiance really likes Dermacrine.

The bottle is supposed to last about 30 days for a man, but I expect it to last me about 10 weeks given my dosage. I'll update this thread about once weekly to document my observations.
Click to expand...
good to here good post
 
Sassy69 said:
Hey cool stuff girl - I was acutally wondering about that today.. .let us know how it goes! Anything else you might expect to see w/ increase T / lower E -- oily skin, acne, "aggression", sense of well-being, oily hair, etc?
Click to expand...

Yes to improved sense of well being, and a maybe to being a bit more assertive.
My energy level and stamina seem to be improving each day despite the fact that I've been going to bed way too late this week and not getting more than 5 hours sleep each night. All day today I've found myself aggressively flexing my muscles hard just because I like the feeling of it. It's like I'm itching to go pump some heavy iron.

No acne or oily hair, but like I said it's only the 6th day. I'll be sure to note that stuff if I observe it later on.
 
Is there any way to know the 1/2 life of whatever is the testosterone stuff? Is it like an ester we can talk about or what? I mean - how do you measure the degree of androgenic or anabolic effect of this stuff? It takes at least a week & a half to feel the effects of even a very low dose of anavar.
 
And the ever-present question when we talk about hormone therapy -- how does it interact w/ or affect birth control?
 
Sassy69 said:
Is there any way to know the 1/2 life of whatever is the testosterone stuff? Is it like an ester we can talk about or what? I mean - how do you measure the degree of androgenic or anabolic effect of this stuff? It takes at least a week & a half to feel the effects of even a very low dose of anavar.
Click to expand...

No it's not an ester. More like a prohormone I believe in that it is converted into androgens in your bloodstream.

The sponsor states the product will keep your T levels elevated for a while even after you've discontinued use of the product. Whether that's true or not is unknown since I'm not aware of any 3rd party lab testing yet to confirm that. If it is true though that would make negotiating virilizing sides tricky. I think I may take the sponsor's advice in the above post and do two week on/two week off cycles.

Regarding BC, I use an IUD as it's not an issue for me, but that is a good question for the sponsor.
 
Sassy69 said:
Is there any way to know the 1/2 life of whatever is the testosterone stuff? Is it like an ester we can talk about or what? I mean - how do you measure the degree of androgenic or anabolic effect of this stuff? It takes at least a week & a half to feel the effects of even a very low dose of anavar.
Click to expand...


Well the ingredients are on the page so you can research each of them individually;

DHEA
Pregnenalone
Resveratrol
Benzoflavone
Chrysin

Those are the active ingredients, rest is the transdermal formula. The only real new thing with the formula is that you are getting the DHEA and Chrysin topically instead of orally, and both are much more effective transdermally, also they convert to other things as they pass through the skin
 
We see that when users drop the dermacrine their levels drop within 2-3 days but still stay above baseline for at least several weeks. In a woman, the same thing would happen. Ie. Androgens would rise, and then fall back close to baseline within a few days of stopping. We say T levels “stay elevated” rather than “suppressed”…. Since the T levels don’t stay in the super-physiological range… but don’t drop to the sub-physiological range either

As far as birth control and dermacrine… my theory on this is simple. AR + ER receptor activation will cause more fat and muscle gain than AR alone. As in, the wieght gain from birth control would be greatly magnified but the concurrent use of an androgen. If a woman is looking for fat loss, she shouldn’t be using androgens with an estrogenic type drugs (birth control). This would essential make the androgen cycle a “bulking” cycle rather than a potential “cutting” cycle. An analogy would be the difference between winny and anadrol.

Im not sure about the effectiveness of birth control while using steroids though…

-Pp
 
Well it seems I have some news to report.

Early this evening when my fiance was applying the Dermacrine he had some shocking news for me. He counted over a half dozen tiny pimples appearing across my mid and upper back. I'll be 24 in May and I'm one of those people that have never had a problem with pimples at all, either on my face or back. If I get more than one or two in a year it's unusual.

Also I realized today that both yesterday and today I've been uncharacteristically impatient and pissy. Like I mentioned my fiance applies the product in the early evenings, about 6pm. The irritability seems to start about 4-5 hours after the application and last until early afternoon the next day....roughly 14-15 hours. I noticed that by mid afternoon my mood has been better and I've felt like my normal self. And it's not my period...that's still almost two weeks away.

From what I know about AAS it would seem I'm experiencing some androgenic effects. Hopefully they'll clear up, or at least not get any worse.
 
RottenWillow said:
Well it seems I have some news to report.

Early this evening when my fiance was applying the Dermacrine he had some shocking news for me. He counted over a half dozen tiny pimples appearing across my mid and upper back. I'll be 24 in May and I'm one of those people that have never had a problem with pimples at all, either on my face or back. If I get more than one or two in a year it's unusual.

Also I realized today that both yesterday and today I've been uncharacteristically impatient and pissy. Like I mentioned my fiance applies the product in the early evenings, about 6pm. The irritability seems to start about 4-5 hours after the application and last until early afternoon the next day....roughly 14-15 hours. I noticed that by mid afternoon my mood has been better and I've felt like my normal self. And it's not my period...that's still almost two weeks away.

From what I know about AAS it would seem I'm experiencing some androgenic effects. Hopefully they'll clear up, or at least not get any worse.
Click to expand...

when I was testing I reported aggressive mood swings to pp vie email...at first I was taking derma on the high end of the dosing around 5 pumps or 40
sprays a day...pp told me cut it down to 3 pumps or 30 spray a day.I did that and from then on out had no problems with it again...I did notice you said you were using it at a even higher dos that he rec amended for a women.think you said 15 as apposed to 10....maybe cut it back to 10 and see how that works. :)
 
Makes sense if it is elevating your test levels - I experienced the same thing when I tried using Tribestan (tribulus terrestis) several years ago - got kinda bloated (or just "big", pissy and acne). It will definitely pass.

For the acne, you might try loading some vitamin B5 (pantothenic acid) -- its relatively cheap at any vitamin store. Load like 2 g / day for a few days and see if it helps at all - it should help within 1-2 days.
 
needtogetas said:
I did notice you said you were using it at a even higher dos that he rec amended for a women.think you said 15 as apposed to 10....maybe cut it back to 10 and see how that works. :)
Click to expand...

I was going to give the same advice. :)
 
Daisy_Girl said:
I was going to give the same advice. :)
Click to expand...

DG, frankly the benefits I'm seeing thus far outweigh the sides. I just had the best workout I've ever had. I was almost giddy with the feeling of physical power and stamina. I've never felt anything like that. Also, my sex drive was so horrible for months it was seriously effecting my mental health and self esteem....I felt like an old lady. Now I have the sex drive of a healthy young woman. It's wonderful.


Sass, I'll grab that B thanks. :)
 
RottenWillow said:
DG, frankly the benefits I'm seeing thus far outweigh the sides. I just had the best workout I've ever had. I was almost giddy with the feeling of physical power and stamina. I've never felt anything like that. Also, my sex drive was so horrible for months it was seriously effecting my mental health and self esteem....I felt like an old lady. Now I have the sex drive of a healthy young woman. It's wonderful.


Sass, I'll grab that B thanks. :)
Click to expand...

Sorry if some of my questions are stupid. I have never heard of dermacrine.

Is this a legal supplement? You mentioned you had the best workout. By best, do you mean you were stronger, more endurance, felt better? I am just wondering if you noticed strength gains.

Is there a problem using dermacrine if you are lifting in a drug tested federation?

You mentioned acne, sex drive and aggression are there any other known side effects. Hair loss, voice changes, etc.

Thanks for sharing your experiences.

Claire
 
claire said:
Sorry if some of my questions are stupid. I have never heard of dermacrine.

Is this a legal supplement? You mentioned you had the best workout. By best, do you mean you were stronger, more endurance, felt better? I am just wondering if you noticed strength gains.

Is there a problem using dermacrine if you are lifting in a drug tested federation?

You mentioned acne, sex drive and aggression are there any other known side effects. Hair loss, voice changes, etc.

Thanks for sharing your experiences.

Claire
Click to expand...
yes but its is only detectable for a short time...I will get pp in here to tell us how long exactly



also derma is perfectly legal,
it dos not cause hare lose rather it stops hair lose do to the pregnenolone that is in it.
 
needtogetas said:
yes but its is only detectable for a short time...I will get pp in here to tell us how long exactly



also derma is perfectly legal,
it dos not cause hare lose rather it stops hair lose do to the pregnenolone that is in it.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the response. I am still curious about strength gains but the rest of the questions are not important since I won't be able to use it.
 
claire said:
Sorry if some of my questions are stupid. I have never heard of dermacrine.

Is this a legal supplement? You mentioned you had the best workout. By best, do you mean you were stronger, more endurance, felt better? I am just wondering if you noticed strength gains.

Is there a problem using dermacrine if you are lifting in a drug tested federation?

You mentioned acne, sex drive and aggression are there any other known side effects. Hair loss, voice changes, etc.

Thanks for sharing your experiences.

Claire
Click to expand...

Yes it's legal Claire. It's sold by one of this board's sponsors. You should be a banner for it at the top of this page.

In today's workout I was both stonger and had more stamina than I've ever had in the four years I've been lifting. Plus psychologically I just felt very motivated and driven to lift hard and heavy. There was no need to all to try to psych myself to lift. I just slammed into it and rocked it hard. I wouldnt say I'm feeling aggressive, just more irritable than I usually am if I'm not on my period. I cant say what other sides might occur since I think I'm the first woman to use this product...certainly the first to post about it anyway.

I wouldnt think you'd fail a drug test, but who knows. I expect your T levels would show up as being high for a woman though.
 
claire said:
Thanks for the response. I am still curious about strength gains but the rest of the questions are not important since I won't be able to use it.
Click to expand...
why cant you use it.btw we are coming out with a tester friendly version as well
that will have no effect on testing. :)
 
needtogetas said:
yes but its is only detectable for a short time...I will get pp in here to tell us how long exactly



also derma is perfectly legal,
it dos not cause hare lose rather it stops hair lose do to the pregnenolone that is in it.
Click to expand...

I missed the quote that it is only detectable for a short time. Would it still be considered as using steriods? I am currently competing APF which does not drug test but plan on changing to USAPL.
 
needtogetas said:
why cant you use it.btw we are coming out with a tester friendly version as well
that will have no effect on testing. :)
Click to expand...

I only notice your answer in the middle of my question so I tought I would not be able to use it while participating in a drug test federation.
 
RottenWillow said:
Yes it's legal Claire. It's sold by one of this board's sponsors. You should be a banner for it at the top of this page.

In today's workout I was both stonger and had more stamina than I've ever had in the four years I've been lifting. Plus psychologically I just felt very motivated and driven to lift hard and heavy. There was no need to all to try to psych myself to lift. I just slammed into it and rocked it hard. I wouldnt say I'm feeling aggressive, just more irritable than I usually am if I'm not on my period. I cant say what other sides might occur since I think I'm the first woman to use this product...certainly the first to post about it anyway.

I wouldnt think you'd fail a drug test, but who knows. I expect your T levels would show up as being high for a woman though.
Click to expand...

Sounds great. I am currently get harrassed in my gym maybe it will give me the edge to finally stick up for myself not mention help my squat.
 
Yes, the DHEA/preg is banned by certain organizations. I would inquire specifically if you plan on using the product.

We will soon be releasing a new version or Dermacrine that will not contain the DHEA/preg, and therefore will to totally legal for all testing organizations… however I am not sure of the androgenic effects it will have in women since it wont be supplying an exogenous source of hormones. It will simply be an AI complex.

Any of you women have any “enhancement” from just using AI’s?

-Pp
 
S is on the sauce! j/k I'm glad to see it's working for you. More and more advanced legal muscle building aids are coming out. It's nice to see real ones do exist.
 
Primordial Performance said:
Yes, the DHEA/preg is banned by certain organizations. I would inquire specifically if you plan on using the product.

We will soon be releasing a new version or Dermacrine that will not contain the DHEA/preg, and therefore will to totally legal for all testing organizations… however I am not sure of the androgenic effects it will have in women since it wont be supplying an exogenous source of hormones. It will simply be an AI complex.

Any of you women have any “enhancement” from just using AI’s?

-Pp
Click to expand...
Thanks for your response. I will look into it. Maybe, wait for the new version. I am still making gains in the gym so no rush

What is AI? Sorry fairly new to the board and no experience except for basic supplements like creatine, beta-7, red blast ...

Thanks,
Claire
 
AI = anti - estrogen. Some versions of that block the conversion of testosterone to estrogen (aromatization) and others like Nolvadex (tamoxafin) sort of fakes out the receptors and blocks the estrogen process from completing.


Im' curious tho - what sort of "enhancements" would you expect from a female on an AI only? I mean, sure it will help reduce estrogen pattern fat depositing but by itself it isn't enhancing test levels. The reduction of fat where it tends to deposit would make a change in leanness more apparent but woudlnt' necessarily "enhance" you in any way. And then since I woudln't suggest anyone try to stay on AIs for an extended period of time (because the extreme state of no estrogen is menopause), you can expect to gain some of it back anyway.
 
c3bodybuilding said:
S is on the sauce! j/k I'm glad to see it's working for you. More and more advanced legal muscle building aids are coming out. It's nice to see real ones do exist.
Click to expand...
i know.waiting for bush to band some more like he did with the others that were on the market
 
At this point I think the appetite enhancement and temperment changes caused by this product are at least as beneficial to my goals as the direct anabolic/anti-catabolic effects.

Before starting this product I really didnt eat enough to add lbm, and it wasnt for lack of trying. I just felt stuffed from a fairly modest amount of food. Now I'm eating like a horse. Also, the assertiveness that comes easily in the gym now is really charging my workouts. I just tear right into exercises (like OHP) that used to intimidate me a bit. I noticed I've had no need at all to stop and psyche myself up...it's just there naturally. LOL....also other exercises I've always liked, like squats, I'm pushing maybe a wee too far, as evidenced by my certainty I needed to hit one last ATF rep with 225 and got myself stuck there with my bubble sitting on my achilles unable to rise an inch. :lmao:

The irritability I felt before seems to be tapering off. I stuck with the same number of sprays and today the pissyness was less noticable than yesterday and yesteday it was less than the day before.

One proviso I'd add. Be careful of your appetite. I allowed myself to massively overeat Thursday and Friday, both nonworkout days, and I seem to have added exactly one inch to my booty for my efforts. Now I'm consciously reigning in my eating to ensure I dont unneccesarily gain anymore bf.
 
RottenWillow said:
. LOL....also other exercises I've always liked, like squats, I'm pushing maybe a wee too far, as evidenced by my certainty I needed to hit one last ATF rep with 225 and got myself stuck there with my bubble sitting on my achilles unable to rise an inch. :lmao:
Click to expand...
Great squat number especially going ATF. If you don't mind answering, what are your maxes on deadlift, squat and bench? Have they increased since using dermacrine?

Great to hear your results are positive and thanks for logging them.

I read in one of the men's log that they take an appetite suppressor to help with the hunger.
 
good to hear your results with derma. Any other ladies use it?

post up your results
 
I think I will give this a run after I am done my current Amplify02 cycle. I am so amazed at all the new over the counter aids and peptides that are coming out. I just hope they stay that way, over the counter and legal. Knock on wood!
 
c3salonikaangelgr said:
I think I will give this a run after I am done my current Amplify02 cycle. I am so amazed at all the new over the counter aids and peptides that are coming out. I just hope they stay that way, over the counter and legal. Knock on wood!
Click to expand...
ya I am hopping the same. :)
 
RottenWillow said:
At this point I think the appetite enhancement and temperment changes caused by this product are at least as beneficial to my goals as the direct anabolic/anti-catabolic effects.

Before starting this product I really didnt eat enough to add lbm, and it wasnt for lack of trying. I just felt stuffed from a fairly modest amount of food. Now I'm eating like a horse. Also, the assertiveness that comes easily in the gym now is really charging my workouts. I just tear right into exercises (like OHP) that used to intimidate me a bit. I noticed I've had no need at all to stop and psyche myself up...it's just there naturally. LOL....also other exercises I've always liked, like squats, I'm pushing maybe a wee too far, as evidenced by my certainty I needed to hit one last ATF rep with 225 and got myself stuck there with my bubble sitting on my achilles unable to rise an inch. :lmao:

The irritability I felt before seems to be tapering off. I stuck with the same number of sprays and today the pissyness was less noticable than yesterday and yesteday it was less than the day before.

One proviso I'd add. Be careful of your appetite. I allowed myself to massively overeat Thursday and Friday, both nonworkout days, and I seem to have added exactly one inch to my booty for my efforts. Now I'm consciously reigning in my eating to ensure I dont unneccesarily gain anymore bf.
Click to expand...


Day 16

I'm going to quote myself so I can speak to some of the issues I addressed a week ago.

The manufacturer’s suggestion to not use the product within 8 hours of bedtime should be heeded. In fact I’d say not within 10 hours of bedtime. It definitely charges me up, but not unpleasantly so. You just dont want to go to bed feeling this way.

All the unpleasant sides I mentioned before started tapering off by day 10. I'm on day 16 now and they're all completely gone now but the backne, and it never got any worse after day 7. (Clearing up now actually with some sulfur acne cream). Although my appetite is greater than normal, it has significantly decreased following a spike between about days 6 and 10. No irritability at all anymore. Sex drive is still far better than it was precycle though.

No other signs of virilization either like increased body hair, oily skin/hair, voice changes, etc. Increased clitoral sensitivity though which some might call virlization I think.

Strength is continuing to increase. The leaps in strength arent insane, but significant and progressive. A good comparison is to that of the newbie gains we all make when we first start lifting. Also, stubborn body parts like bis and delts have started getting stronger again, which is nothing short of a small miracle for me.

Both physical energy and assertiveness with the iron has continued. It is much easier to get a great workout now.

In consideration of the disappearance of the sides, I've decided to to go the full four weeks without a break, and I also upped my dose to 20 sprays beginning today.
 
RottenWillow said:
Day 16

I'm going to quote myself so I can speak to some of the issues I addressed a week ago.

The manufacturer’s suggestion to not use the product within 8 hours of bedtime should be heeded. In fact I’d say not within 10 hours of bedtime. It definitely charges me up, but not unpleasantly so. You just dont want to go to bed feeling this way.

All the unpleasant sides I mentioned before started tapering off by day 10. I'm on day 16 now and they're all completely gone now but the backne, and it never got any worse after day 7. (Clearing up now actually with some sulfur acne cream). Although my appetite is greater than normal, it has significantly decreased following a spike between about days 6 and 10. No irritability at all anymore. Sex drive is still far better than it was precycle though.

No other signs of virilization either like increased body hair, oily skin/hair, voice changes, etc. Increased clitoral sensitivity though which some might call virlization I think.

Strength is continuing to increase. The leaps in strength arent insane, but significant and progressive. A good comparison is to that of the newbie gains we all make when we first start lifting. Also, stubborn body parts like bis and delts have started getting stronger again, which is nothing short of a small miracle for me.

Both physical energy and assertiveness with the iron has continued. It is much easier to get a great workout now.

In consideration of the disappearance of the sides, I've decided to to go the full four weeks without a break, and I also upped my dose to 20 sprays beginning today.
Click to expand...

awesome.. Keep us updated!! I bolded the part I liked :evil:
 
Looks like a lot of people are loving this stuff! Is there any way you can take some before and after pics? I know it's too late for before but you might have some you took around the time you started.

My husband reminded me to take some before and after pics when I ran the Amp stack. I was so glad that I had. I didn't even realize the change until I saw the pics!

Keep up the good work girl! Keep kicking ass :evil:
 
c3salonikaangelgr said:
Looks like a lot of people are loving this stuff! Is there any way you can take some before and after pics? I know it's too late for before but you might have some you took around the time you started.


Keep up the good work girl! Keep kicking ass :evil:
Click to expand...


I didnt take any pics b/c I've always been disappointed with my attempts at "muscle pics". :) (and I mean every single time!)

I have confirmed though that I've gained 2lbs of lbm. I had 2 skin folds done the day I started and again today. I'm up from about 16-16.5% bf to 17.5-18% bf, which is to be expected when you're eating to gain. This is the first measurable lbm gain for me in probably 18 months.
 
RottenWillow said:
I didnt take any pics b/c I've always been disappointed with my attempts at "muscle pics". :) (and I mean every single time!)

I have confirmed though that I've gained 2lbs of lbm. I had 2 skin folds done the day I started and again today. I'm up from about 16-16.5% bf to 17.5-18% bf, which is to be expected when you're eating to gain. This is the first measurable lbm gain for me in probably 18 months.
Click to expand...


I know what you mean! You should have been at our house the other night when C3 was taking my new pics. He was getting annoyed after a while "No no, you have to flex your arm this way!" or "No! Let me show you what I mean.." I decided I am going to make it a point to practice posing my body so I will finally be able to take some decent 'muscle pics'

Congrats on breaking through a barrier and taking it to a new level. :qt:
 
c3salonikaangelgr said:
Looks like a lot of people are loving this stuff! Is there any way you can take some before and after pics? I know it's too late for before but you might have some you took around the time you started.

My husband reminded me to take some before and after pics when I ran the Amp stack. I was so glad that I had. I didn't even realize the change until I saw the pics!

Keep up the good work girl! Keep kicking ass :evil:
Click to expand...
Did you post the before and after pictures of you Amp stack progress? I am interested in trying it and was wondering what your results were like. I checked your profile but could not tell what pictures to compare.
 
RottenWillow said:
I didnt take any pics b/c I've always been disappointed with my attempts at "muscle pics". :) (and I mean every single time!)

I have confirmed though that I've gained 2lbs of lbm. I had 2 skin folds done the day I started and again today. I'm up from about 16-16.5% bf to 17.5-18% bf, which is to be expected when you're eating to gain. This is the first measurable lbm gain for me in probably 18 months.
Click to expand...

well assuming the gains from DC will continue, any current progress pics you take will become "befores" soon anyways. start taking them and you may later be happy enuf with the final results to post them all.
 
RottenWillow said:
I have confirmed though that I've gained 2lbs of lbm. I had 2 skin folds done the day I started and again today. I'm up from about 16-16.5% bf to 17.5-18% bf, which is to be expected when you're eating to gain.
Click to expand...

oh well, maybe not. Subsequent skin fold tests have shown I'd gained at most 1lb of lbm.

This product seems to be much more of an androgen than an anabolic agent. I've gotten pretty damn horny and pretty damn strong, but no real lbm gains. And it aint been for lack of eating either. I've packed on about 1.5-2% bf in the 21 days I've been on.

In reviewing my training log since I started on 3/10 I see that I work almost exclusively in the 6-10 rep range. Sounds like strength training, huh? The problem could be in the girl's workout plan, not the Dermacrine.

This cycle will be wrapping up exactly one week from today and at this point I dont expect any lbm gains. I do plan to give this stuff one more shot though. The sponsor has this stuff for $20 off for a few days beginning Monday so I'm gonna buy one more bottle and give it another go in a month.

I'll get with Cornie and bum some free advice (:D) on hypertrophy training to implement next time.



EDIT: Ok we're checking the old digicam now to see if the batteries are still alive. If so we'll do some muscle pics and hopefully at least a few will be decent enough for public consumption.
 
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RottenWillow said:
oh well, maybe not. Subsequent skin fold tests have shown I'd gained at most 1lb of lbm.

This product seems to be much more of an androgen than an anabolic agent. I've gotten pretty damn horny and pretty damn strong, but no real lbm gains. And it aint been for lack of eating either. I've packed on about 1.5-2% bf in the 21 days I've been on.

In reviewing my training log since I started on 3/10 I see that I work almost exclusively in the 6-10 rep range. Sounds like strength training, huh? The problem could be in the girl's workout plan, not the Dermacrine.

This cycle will be wrapping up exactly one week from today and at this point I dont expect any lbm gains. I do plan to give this stuff one more shot though. The sponsor has this stuff for $20 off for a few days beginning Monday so I'm gonna buy one more bottle and give it another go in a month.

I'll get with Cornie and bum some free advice (:D) on hypertrophy training to implement next time.



EDIT: Ok we're checking the old digicam now to see if the batteries are still alive. If so we'll do some muscle pics and hopefully at least a few will be decent enough for public consumption.
Click to expand...


What has the increase in calories consisted of? Tuna? Doughnuts?

-Pp
 
RottenWillow said:
oh well, maybe not. Subsequent skin fold tests have shown I'd gained at most 1lb of lbm.

This product seems to be much more of an androgen than an anabolic agent. I've gotten pretty damn horny and pretty damn strong, but no real lbm gains. And it aint been for lack of eating either. I've packed on about 1.5-2% bf in the 21 days I've been on.

In reviewing my training log since I started on 3/10 I see that I work almost exclusively in the 6-10 rep range. Sounds like strength training, huh? The problem could be in the girl's workout plan, not the Dermacrine.

This cycle will be wrapping up exactly one week from today and at this point I dont expect any lbm gains. I do plan to give this stuff one more shot though. The sponsor has this stuff for $20 off for a few days beginning Monday so I'm gonna buy one more bottle and give it another go in a month.

I'll get with Cornie and bum some free advice (:D) on hypertrophy training to implement next time.



EDIT: Ok we're checking the old digicam now to see if the batteries are still alive. If so we'll do some muscle pics and hopefully at least a few will be decent enough for public consumption.
Click to expand...
training has still be good right.you still feel awesome in the gym right....
 
Sassy69 said:
Look at the contents of a granola bar... not what I'd call 'quality carbs'.
Click to expand...

Granola bars? Shit did I type that? They're oatmeal bars from the health food section. Nature's Bounty or something like that. Dry as hell.
 
RottenWillow said:
Granola bars? Shit did I type that? They're oatmeal bars from the health food section. Nature's Bounty or something like that. Dry as hell.
Click to expand...

As you increase calories you don't want to increase carbs proportionately, you only need so much energy.

In other words, to use a simple example if you are eating 50/50 carbs and protein in a 2000 calorie diet

1000 carbs
1000 protein

Then you want to gain lean muscle and take some kind of performance enhancer, you don't want to increase calories at the 50/50, you really want to make almost all the calorie gain to be protien, if you are going to increase to 3000 calories per day then you should keep 1000 carb and increase that protein to 2000. Even complex carbs turn into fat, they burn slower and give more energy over time but in excess they still go to fat, and no matter how strong you are and how much you train those granola bars can never turn into muscle. Nix the bars and get more tuna, chicken breast, and veggies in the diet.
 
mm107 said:
amazing, never thought it for a women, great results so far
Click to expand...

This is a bit off topic, but your body transformation is pretty impressive in the pics you got in ur sig, how long of a period is that over?
 
D_Mac said:
As you increase calories you don't want to increase carbs proportionately, you only need so much energy.

In other words, to use a simple example if you are eating 50/50 carbs and protein in a 2000 calorie diet

1000 carbs
1000 protein

Then you want to gain lean muscle and take some kind of performance enhancer, you don't want to increase calories at the 50/50, you really want to make almost all the calorie gain to be protien, if you are going to increase to 3000 calories per day then you should keep 1000 carb and increase that protein to 2000. Even complex carbs turn into fat, they burn slower and give more energy over time but in excess they still go to fat, and no matter how strong you are and how much you train those granola bars can never turn into muscle. Nix the bars and get more tuna, chicken breast, and veggies in the diet.
Click to expand...

Diet was fine. As it turns out I was training much too infrequently, hence no lbm gain, but put on about 3lbs of fat. The DC hugely accelerated my recovery time, but I didnt realize it until week 4.
 
Ok, last post and final thoughts. I learned a lot from this cycle and I expect to be able to make much better use of the next cycle as a result.


I started with roughly 40-45% of the reccomended dose, or about 15 sprays applied to my rear delts, upper, outer, and mid back. I loofahed about every 2-3 days, and after each daily application avoided exercise and heat (to prevent perspiration) and even kept my shirt and bra off for at least 1/2 hour. In every way I tried to ensure maximum absorption of the product. Days 15-28 I raised my dose to 20 sprays, or closer to 60% of the reccomended dose (for a man).

I complained later about gaining a few pounds of fat, but no measurable lbm. For a week or so I couldnt figure this out, but an experiment Wednesday April 4 settled the issue to my satisfaction. Because I usually do not get enough sleep during weeknights I've been training each muscle once weekly, only on the weekends, and continued this training schedule the entire 28 day Derma cycle. I shouldnt have. On 4/2, just 72 hours after a hard workout, and with an average of 4 hours sleep nightly, my muscles had not only fully recovered, but had managed to overcompensate, ie. got stronger. Ho-lee-fricking-cow! Stronger, and in less than half the usual recovery interval and with far less than adequate rest.

I concluded from this that I could have, and should have, lifted 2x as frequently during weeks 2-4, and probably would have avoided most of the fat gain and even built some measurable lbm.

For me at least this product jacked my testosterone levels far above normal. The only unpleasant sides I experienced were some irritable mood, and slight backacne between days 6 and 10. I also noticed some intermittant itchyness in my left nipple between days 17 and 27, but no change at all in appearance or sensitivity. No clitoral enlargement, no oily hair, no unwanted body hair, and the acne got no worse after about day 8 and subsequently responded well to sulfur acne cream.

The physical energy and mental focus and assertiveness in the gym was absolutely fantastic. No hyperbole here, chicas. Those effects alone would be worth a repurchase to me if the product were no more than $50 for a month's supply. Given the rate I used it, the $77 purchase (with shipping) would last 2 months, or about $38 a month. That cycle length would dovetail nicely with the low dose/long cycle style dosing reccomended for women. For those who'd plan to run an entire bottle without stop for 8-9 weeks, I suggest sticking to your normal regimine for about the first 12-14 days as this stuff seems to need about 6-7 days to really kick in. Then weeks 3 to 9, you should think about really increasing either the volume or frequency of your training to really exploit this stuff.

I decided to go ahead and take a break a few days ago at the 28 day mark b/c frankly the ritual of putting the stuff on daily and being careful of it until it soaked in got a little tiresome over time. I'm gonna miss the effects in the gym though, and have already marked the day I'm starting back, May 3. :)
 
OK, got your K msg. :friends:

Pp
I could possibly be interested in this, but what would the ramifications be for a guy on HRT?
Also, would there be a benefit for a woman who does exercise, but very minimal?
 
HiDnGoD said:
OK, got your K msg. :friends:

Pp
I could possibly be interested in this, but what would the ramifications be for a guy on HRT?
Also, would there be a benefit for a woman who does exercise, but very minimal?
Click to expand...
you are on hrt bro. :)
 
HiDnGoD said:
Pp
I could possibly be interested in this, but what would the ramifications be for a guy on HRT?
Also, would there be a benefit for a woman who does exercise, but very minimal?
Click to expand...
Bumpage
 
Just checking in. I'm halfway to my next cycle now. :)


It's been 17 days since my last application and I'm happy to say my strength gains have been maintained and my sex drive is still better than prior to the first DC cycle. The sex drive dipped for about 4-5 days, then came back up to better than pre-cycle and has stayed there. I questioned the sponsor about the likelyhood of a "crash" and subsequent loss of any size and/or strength gains, and he didnt seem to know. So far I havent lost any size or strength. Even notoriously slow gaining bodyparts, like bis and delts, have maintained the accelerated strength levels I gained on cycle. My upper arms did go up about 1/3" as well and have held there.

The improved energy level and assertiveness in the gym I enjoyed during the cycle continued for about 6-7 days after the last dosing. I expected my recovery times to stretch out again to about 7 days, and they did.

I have not gained any strength at all since coming off though. Prior to the DC cycle I was gaining strength to the tune of about 1 rep each week on all muscle groups, except bis and delts. Since coming off I havent gained a rep on anything.

Bottom line though...if I can just hold onto the gains between cycles, then maybe I'll able to reccomend this stuff as an anabolic agent as well. We'll see. :)
 
RottenWillow said:
Just checking in. I'm halfway to my next cycle now. :)


It's been 17 days since my last application and I'm happy to say my strength gains have been maintained and my sex drive is still better than prior to the first DC cycle. The sex drive dipped for about 4-5 days, then came back up to better than pre-cycle and has stayed there. I questioned the sponsor about the likelyhood of a "crash" and subsequent loss of any size and/or strength gains, and he didnt seem to know. So far I havent lost any size or strength. Even notoriously slow gaining bodyparts, like bis and delts, have maintained the accelerated strength levels I gained on cycle. My upper arms did go up about 1/3" as well and have held there.

The improved energy level and assertiveness in the gym I enjoyed during the cycle continued for about 6-7 days after the last dosing. I expected my recovery times to stretch out again to about 7 days, and they did.

I have not gained any strength at all since coming off though. Prior to the DC cycle I was gaining strength to the tune of about 1 rep each week on all muscle groups, except bis and delts. Since coming off I havent gained a rep on anything.

Bottom line though...if I can just hold onto the gains between cycles, then maybe I'll able to reccomend this stuff as an anabolic agent as well. We'll see. :)
Click to expand...
love to here it girl.
 
RottenWillow said:
Ok, last post and final thoughts. I learned a lot from this cycle and I expect to be able to make much better use of the next cycle as a result.


I started with roughly 40-45% of the reccomended dose, or about 15 sprays applied to my rear delts, upper, outer, and mid back. I loofahed about every 2-3 days, and after each daily application avoided exercise and heat (to prevent perspiration) and even kept my shirt and bra off for at least 1/2 hour. In every way I tried to ensure maximum absorption of the product. Days 15-28 I raised my dose to 20 sprays, or closer to 60% of the reccomended dose (for a man).

I complained later about gaining a few pounds of fat, but no measurable lbm. For a week or so I couldnt figure this out, but an experiment Wednesday April 4 settled the issue to my satisfaction. Because I usually do not get enough sleep during weeknights I've been training each muscle once weekly, only on the weekends, and continued this training schedule the entire 28 day Derma cycle. I shouldnt have. On 4/2, just 72 hours after a hard workout, and with an average of 4 hours sleep nightly, my muscles had not only fully recovered, but had managed to overcompensate, ie. got stronger. Ho-lee-fricking-cow! Stronger, and in less than half the usual recovery interval and with far less than adequate rest.

I concluded from this that I could have, and should have, lifted 2x as frequently during weeks 2-4, and probably would have avoided most of the fat gain and even built some measurable lbm.

For me at least this product jacked my testosterone levels far above normal. The only unpleasant sides I experienced were some irritable mood, and slight backacne between days 6 and 10. I also noticed some intermittant itchyness in my left nipple between days 17 and 27, but no change at all in appearance or sensitivity. No clitoral enlargement, no oily hair, no unwanted body hair, and the acne got no worse after about day 8 and subsequently responded well to sulfur acne cream.

The physical energy and mental focus and assertiveness in the gym was absolutely fantastic. No hyperbole here, chicas. Those effects alone would be worth a repurchase to me if the product were no more than $50 for a month's supply. Given the rate I used it, the $77 purchase (with shipping) would last 2 months, or about $38 a month. That cycle length would dovetail nicely with the low dose/long cycle style dosing reccomended for women. For those who'd plan to run an entire bottle without stop for 8-9 weeks, I suggest sticking to your normal regimine for about the first 12-14 days as this stuff seems to need about 6-7 days to really kick in. Then weeks 3 to 9, you should think about really increasing either the volume or frequency of your training to really exploit this stuff.

I decided to go ahead and take a break a few days ago at the 28 day mark b/c frankly the ritual of putting the stuff on daily and being careful of it until it soaked in got a little tiresome over time. I'm gonna miss the effects in the gym though, and have already marked the day I'm starting back, May 3. :)
Click to expand...

The above summary is the post to read for ladies interested in trying this.
 
yeah it is far cheaper now. It's my 2nd day back on it. Considering I do about half the reccomended amount that's maybe $25 a month at most. I liked the old clear liquid alcohol based formula better b/c it dried WAY faster than the new lotion form. New one delivers the stuff just as well though it seems. I had noticeably more energy yesterday when I got home from work and my appetite was way up. Had BAD insomnia last night though. Hope I acclamate soon. Even 15 hours after applying I was wide awake. IIRC after about 4-5 days that side eased up.
 
RottenWillow said:
yeah it is far cheaper now. It's my 2nd day back on it. Considering I do about half the reccomended amount that's maybe $25 a month at most. I liked the old clear liquid alcohol based formula better b/c it dried WAY faster than the new lotion form. New one delivers the stuff just as well though it seems. I had noticeably more energy yesterday when I got home from work and my appetite was way up. Had BAD insomnia last night though. Hope I acclamate soon. Even 15 hours after applying I was wide awake. IIRC after about 4-5 days that side eased up.
Click to expand...

I just throw it on, keep the shirt of for a half hour and then thats it. I have loved derma for years now.
 
13th day back on. 4 pumps daily, (about 80% of the recommended dosage), or about 56mg of DHEA.

Workout focus, energy and pumps are just ridiculous. Already past the irritability stage. IME the 2nd full week on is when this stuff starts accelerating recouperation on a physiological level, so I will see what's up next workout. Dude I'm amped like a Marshall. :garza:

Anyone considering pharmaceuticals should really consider this stuff first. I don't think 5mg (maybe even 10) of Anavar would be more potent, just more expensive.
 
Just got my Dermacrine in today. I am going to to take measurements and weight tomorrow and start my cycle. I am going to do this for 4 weeks. Looking forward and very excited!!!!!!!
 
Yes I am going to use it by itself the first time. I was recommended another product to run with it but this is my first time every to use a ProHormone.
If all goes well I definitely plan on doing another cycle of it and maypbe pair it with something else.
 
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