Did the old school juicers use ancilleries?

Did Arnold, Ferrigno, and the likes use ancillaries and anti e's during there cycles back in the day? If not how did they prevent gyno and the post cycle mass losses with out those drugs?

Not sure. Good question.

AAS science has grown quite a bit since then. I am not sure if Nolva or Clomid (at the veary least) were even around.

Thats why I ask cause I could of sworn I read somewhere that they never had those drugs on hand for those preventative measures. And if thats the case then why do we have so many cases of gyno and wieght losses post cycle? Are we missing something here? If they didn't there must have been some tricks of the trade.

NO - they knew very little compared to what we do today. However arnold used Primo a lot, which does not aromatise, and relied on mild compounds and awesome genetics..

I thought arnold was a big advocate of d-bol? or dbol and deca?

I read arnold did have gyno surgery in 1978 3 years after his last comp.It healed up and looked good if you look close in his 1980 photos you can tell the nipple looks much firmer and tighter then in 1975 during pumping iron.
but the only one who actually knows would be arnold and his doctors.

How did arnold stay on roids from 1966- 1976 with out getting bitch tits sooner. Rumor it has alot to do with his secret weapon " powerful german steroids " Arnold used to claim to guys " your going to lose becuase "we in europe are using better steroids then you"
Comes to mind primobolan its a steroid that was not looked at much by americans but when arnold started using it in 1972 its hardened the fuck up out of his body no more puffy face or covered abs arnold then developed the tight sculpted body he was know for.Primo is also used to treat breast tumor growth in europe as a form of hormone replacment for men that have started to develope gyno due to hormone imbalances in their system.
serge nubret from france also used primo .
when you even look at the 1975 film pumping iron , look at arnold and serges face compared to lous face , arnold and serge were chisled a cut hard while lou ( prob on dbol and deca) was having water retention problems.
same when ken whaler took the 1975 universe. ken was training with arnold in 1974 to 1975 with arnold knowledge and better drug connections kens body really trasfrormed from a puffy soft ken to a ripped rock hard ken with veins popping out of his lower lats to take home first place and stop bloated softer mike kats and runner up's

so to anwser the question. some of the guys did get gyno but just ended up getting it removed and the ones with better steroid connections and used primo is replacemnets for deca seemed to avoid the gyno or didnt get it at alll.

just my 2'ccs

btw blacksheep hit the nail on the head with the low aromatizing primo arnold used and shared with his friends .

Just more reasons to back up my use of primo (when i am ready to do it). I am already pretty big and have decent muscular size so I may just use primo, maybe others not 100% sure yet. But I still have some fat to lose and more training to do before I am ready to sauce it. I am just worried about gyno due to the fact that I already have heavy fat deposits on my chest. I don't want to instigate this. Thanks guys.

I am going to start my own primo board, primo club, primo everything,


I love the stuff.

Consistent, effective and few sides,


It just works for me.

Makes me want to try primo!!

i was told that they never used PCT because they never came off.

i hope this post by madcow answers that question:
http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showpost.php?p=6776010&postcount=11

"Even for those on an AAS cycle. Understanding the parameters will help them put more muscle on (holding dosage constant) and maintain their muscle coming off. Long before PCT became the norm, there was one constant. The guys who trained around big lifts and knew to cut volume and frequency in assistance work while maintaining core lifts at relatively high intensity (%1RM) under tolerable post cycle workloads are the ones who kept their muscle (or most of it) with ease even without PCT while the guys in commercial gyms were on a viscious cycle of gaining and then dropping a significant portion of muscle with no idea how or why, waiting and praying for it to stop. Yet you don't hear crap about that on any AAS board and it would really help out."


here's the entire thread:
http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?t=516361

Primo is such a two-sided compound. Some people swear by it and some people think it's the biggest waste of money. I have used to twice....along time ago when i didnt really know what I was doing and did like 300mg ew. Just hardened me up...if I were to run it again I would use it at 800-1000mg ew with some test.

No we didn't use ancillaries. Or PCT.
And just for the record I didn't ANYONE who used Primo. Laurabolin, Deca, test, dbol were all I ever saw. That was Chicago and San Diego though. Maybe it was different in LA.

Ulter said:

No we didn't use ancillaries. Or PCT.
And just for the record I didn't ANYONE who used Primo. Laurabolin, Deca, test, dbol were all I ever saw. That was Chicago and San Diego though. Maybe it was different in LA.

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so you adjusted your training accordingly when you got off? care to elaborate bro?

You would come off by tapering. If you hit it just right you wouldn't crash. That was when AM dbol became so popular. You'd come off 500mg, 400mg, 300mg, 200mg, 100mg, and then on to AM dbol.
Training adjusted itself. If you didn't use the AM dbol the coritsol would bring your strength down and most the time trash your joints. Before I used AM dbol I had to have both shoulders scoped and I crashed 4 times.

I'm guessing like 10mg ed dbol for the AM dbol?

Ulter said:

You would come off by tapering. If you hit it just right you wouldn't crash. That was when AM dbol became so popular. You'd come off 500mg, 400mg, 300mg, 200mg, 100mg, and then on to AM dbol.
Training adjusted itself. If you didn't use the AM dbol the coritsol would bring your strength down and most the time trash your joints. Before I used AM dbol I had to have both shoulders scoped and I crashed 4 times.

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so would something like sus for example work well for tapering (just for the sake of discussion - supposing you had it back then).

i've been asking whatever happended to tapering since i rejoined this board. even up to 6 years ago every cycle that was posted here tapered at the end

AM dbol works.

boston789 said:

I'm guessing like 10mg ed dbol for the AM dbol?

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Yes

silver_shadow said:

so would something like sus for example work well for tapering (just for the sake of discussion - supposing you had it back then).

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Yes it would but I wouldn't trust it. There are too many variable with all those esters. I'd rather control it myself.

Back in the 80's the only PCT (and it certainly wasn't called that!) I ever heard of was 2 shots of 5000iu hcg spaced a week apart. That was considered cutting edge! I still maintain that a 20 something healthy male needs very little PCT......Now at my age I am just learning what PCT can do.

medrep said:

i've been asking whatever happended to tapering since i rejoined this board. even up to 6 years ago every cycle that was posted here tapered at the end

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Yeah, what ever happened to tapering and pyramid cycles, that book that bill phillips wrote years ago before EAS, he talks about tapers and diamonds, pyramids, and blitz cycles. How come there is no discussion of these methods here???

Because clomid and the idea of PCT came along and made them obsolete.

Twoguns said:

Yeah, what ever happened to tapering and pyramid cycles, that book that bill phillips wrote years ago before EAS, he talks about tapers and diamonds, pyramids, and blitz cycles. How come there is no discussion of these methods here???

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Because it is all about selling gear and ancillaries now. Not that there is anything wrong with that, but welcome to the internet.

From what i saw weather you taper or not your body still is overloaded with gear so your body will not start to produce untill its empty
that is what i read in anabolics 2006 ver.

my cycles with deca would often lead to a crash afterwords but test and primo and a long slow taper with daily oral use like var provided a smooth transition. i first used clomid in the early 80s and nolvadex and hcg in 1985. never had any gyno issues until I shot the hcg for pct, without proper anti-estrogen protection. adex, etc. were undiscovered at that point

I started in the mid 80's and the only steroid book available to me at the time made no mention of any resembling pct. I remember it recommended -- get this -- evening primrose oil to speed along recovery. We could pick up organon 250 and deca harpoons for $5/. The var we were using turned out to be methyltest but came in a sprisingly authentic looking bottle. Lots of bros preferred to shoot dbol rather than swallow. It seemed that most of the really serious bodybuilders were gay, but that doesn't seem to be so much the case today. Everyone used a diamond cycle pattern. Start with low doses, build up, taper down. I got edema real bad every cycle.