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Sarge needs to figure out a new Training "split" to Diet on with a Fawked Back

S

SgtSlaughter

New member
No deads, No bending over with free weight ANYTHING, no ATF squats.

50lbs of shit in a 5lb bag...here we go:

Day 1
Leg Sled 5x5, 2x8 backoff
CGBP 4x5, 3x3
T-Bar Row 4x5, 2x8
Seated DB Shrugs x-x

Day 2
Cardio
Plyo work, bodyweight dynamic exercises

Day 3
Leg Sled 3x10
Push Press 4x5
T-Bar Row 4x5, 2x8
Cardio

Day 4
Cardio
DB OHP 3x8
Flys
Seated Rows

Day 5
Leg Sled 3x8
CGBP 4x8
DB Bench 4x6

6 cardio
7 OFF

this is a very rough template.

Came to the conclusion that 3, 4 days MAX is what i really can only allocate to training & cardio :(

Anyone with any ideas to cram what I want to do into 3 or 4 days?
 
Heavy Leg Press CAN aggravate the back as well. Be VERY careful plating that sucker up. Any days you prefer OFF from training (I think I remember you saying you like training on the weekends)...
 
*Bunny* said:
Heavy Leg Press CAN aggravate the back as well. Be VERY careful plating that sucker up. Any days you prefer OFF from training (I think I remember you saying you like training on the weekends)...
Click to expand...
true... will do :qt:

No no NO! Don't plan on days of the week (that just makes it harder for you)... just label "Day 1" ect... and i'll start whenever, ect :)
 
I've read that leg press can actually be harder on the lower back than properly performed oly squats . . . something to consider.

Back injuries are the pits. You may consider doing some reverse hyperextensions, which are a godsend to many people re: back rehab/prehab. Also, can you do any type of ham work?

You aren't taking many rest days. Do you make more progress training like that, or would you benefit from another day or two of rest in there? It seems like a lot of activity, depending on what your cardio consists of.

Also, your days 3, 4, & 5 have a lot of overlap (e.g., push press on Day 3 and DB OHP on Day 4).

Just some thoughts.
 
Protobuilder said:
I've read that leg press can actually be harder on the lower back than properly performed oly squats . . . something to consider.
Back injuries are the pits. You may consider doing some reverse hyperextensions, which are a godsend to many people re: back rehab/prehab. Also, can you do any type of ham work?
You aren't taking many rest days. Do you make more progress training like that, or would you benefit from another day or two of rest in there? It seems like a lot of activity, depending on what your cardio consists of.
Also, your days 3, 4, & 5 have a lot of overlap (e.g., push press on Day 3 and DB OHP on Day 4).
Just some thoughts.
Click to expand...
:) I'm not going to be using that... see:
sgtslaughter said:
Came to the conclusion that 3, 4 days MAX is what i really can only allocate to training & cardio :(
Anyone with any ideas to cram what I want to do into 3 or 4 days?
Click to expand...

Yeah i would make more progress like that, but i just don't have time for it... .gotta cram quality low reps in with some higher rep sets spanning 3 or 4 days (training AND cardio).

hypers and GM's maybe... my spinal erectors and those slabs of meat up my spine are strong as hell now... it's my vertebra (L region...maybe even up to the S's) that are jacked up :( ... going to pop in and see my chiro today, should be able to crack me cuz i'm pretty loose after not training for 7 days.

I'll deff. try light oly squating again, i have no doubt there... just not yet.

I could do lunges I think too.
 
sgtslaughter said:
true... will do :qt:

No no NO! Don't plan on days of the week (that just makes it harder for you)... just label "Day 1" ect... and i'll start whenever, ect :)
Click to expand...
I'm wasn't going to ...
 
sgtslaughter said:
woooooooooooooooe - k

;)
Click to expand...
I sent you a rough breakdown of an idea I am working on which will mesh a split type training with a 5 x 5 structure, while trying to correct imbalances, improve neuromuscular efficiency, improve my lifts, all while losing body fat & maintaining my LBM OR (like you have seen me do before) build some more. :)

I will not post it until I run it, test it and tweak it to what works for me. But feel free to pull some concepts off it, you can pick & chose, incorp giant sets etc. to get more of a cardio/circuit feel etc.

BiggT helped me alot, thank you !!! :)
 
*Bunny* said:
I sent you a rough breakdown of an idea I am working on which will mesh a split type training with a 5 x 5 structure, while trying to correct imbalances, improve neuromuscular efficiency, improve my lifts, all while losing body fat & maintaining my LBM OR (like you have seen me do before) build some more. :)

I will not post it until I run it, test it and tweak it to what works for me. But feel free to pull some concepts off it, you can pick & chose, incorp giant sets etc. to get more of a cardio/circuit feel etc.

BiggT helped me alot, thank you !!! :)
Click to expand...


Looking forward to seeing this fo sho
 
al420 said:
Looking forward to seeing this fo sho
Click to expand...
YOU for one will like it :)

It doesnt fit into Sarge's plan but it may help him get ideas.

What do you think about his post & suggestions for him?
 
*Bunny* said:
I sent you a rough breakdown of an idea I am working on which will mesh a split type training with a 5 x 5 structure, while trying to correct imbalances, improve neuromuscular efficiency, improve my lifts, all while losing body fat & maintaining my LBM OR (like you have seen me do before) build some more. :)

I will not post it until I run it, test it and tweak it to what works for me. But feel free to pull some concepts off it, you can pick & chose, incorp giant sets etc. to get more of a cardio/circuit feel etc.

BiggT helped me alot, thank you !!! :)
Click to expand...
Thank you *B*

ok here's what I made from the 3 days...

Day 1 – Leg Day 1 & Chest (Flat), fluff would be Med. & Ant. Delts, Abs
Day 2 – OFF
Day 3 - Leg Day 2 & Back, Traps, Ant. Delts, Calves
Day 4 – OFF
Day 5 – Leg Day 3 & Chest & Back (Arm fluff), Abs
Day 6 – OFF OFF
Day 7 - OFF

... specifics layed out... keep in mind all experimental and will be tweaked for probably a couple weeks.

Day 1
Leg Press 5x5, 2x8 (heavier day)
Weighted Step ups :rainbow: but they get the job done
CGBP (Close Grip Bench Press) 3x5, 3x3
DB Bench or flys (I hate flys, so probably just more pressing)
DB Side Raises 3x8
Rev. Pec Deck 3x8
Rope Crunches 3x8
Cardio

Day 3
Leg Press 3x10 (light day)
Leg Press Calve Presses 5x8 or 10 (load the machine with plates day)
Heavy high level cycling for 5 minutes to get that blood gorging pump :evil:
BB Military OHP 5x5
DB OHP 4x6
DB Ant Delts 3x8
T-Bar Rows 5x5
Seated rows 3x8
High Pull Leverage Row 4x6, 1x10
Shrugs (not sure what kind I can do yet, will have to field test this)
Cardio

Day 5
Leg Press 8x3, 2x15
CGBP 5x8
BB Decline 3x8
T-Bar Rows 4x8
Lat Pull Down 5x6
Curls (Bis)
Presses (Tris)
Abs
Cardio

I'd like to have dips in there, but... Honestly, I want to break down and burn the gatdang contraption that my gym calls a dip "station"...

Chins may be added too on Day 1
 
I guess if I'm only training 3 days I can spend 2 hours in the gym on those days (cardio included).

I will need serious fueling for these sessions :chomp:
 
wakefib said:
over head lifts don't bother your back?
Click to expand...
I don't know yet... I think I may have to do them seated and see how that works, maybe stricter form that way will be better ( = less weight and less spinal compression).
 
sgtslaughter said:
I guess if I'm only training 3 days I can spend 2 hours in the gym on those days (cardio included).

I will need serious fueling for these sessions :chomp:
Click to expand...
Unless you get your butt up and do cardio in the AM, weights PM :D :evil: OR cardio on Day 2,4,6 if you wanna do SOMETHING.
Again just more ideas...
 
sgtslaughter said:
I don't know yet... I think I may have to do them seated and see how that works, maybe stricter form that way will be better ( = less weight and less spinal compression).
Click to expand...

i know an exercise (don't worry no stability balls, lol) that will take the compression off your spine and you can still lift with relatively heavy weights.
here try this:

take a oly bar and put one end in a corner of a room (or somewhere that it wont move).
put weight on the end of the bar that is not stabilized.
then lift the weight ended to your shoulder.
using one hand, you can do a push press with more of a forward lean.

this way when the weight is at the top,the weight isn't all on you because of the angle.
let me know what you think. i did them before like this and i am going to start doing them like this because of my back.
 
sarge...i would go into this with an open mind! try and do most things seated with lower back support. the workout you listed looks fine...if something hurts or bothers you then stop and figure out a way to do it without it hurting. point is you have a great frame to work with now....and whatever you do your going to see progress...it may not be strength but i bet your still gain some quality muscle while losing bf!

reverse hyperextensions are great for your lower disc's...i usually do them on the floor on my stomach with my hands a little wider then shoulder grip apart....then start bending your back backwards but keep your lower body lose (thats important) and let your arms push your weight up...DO NOT use your back.
 
wakefib said:
take a oly bar and put one end in a corner of a room (or somewhere that it wont move).
put weight on the end of the bar that is not stabilized.
then lift the weight ended to your shoulder.
using one hand, you can do a push press with more of a forward lean.

this way when the weight is at the top,the weight isn't all on you because of the angle.
let me know what you think. i did them before like this and i am going to start doing them like this because of my back.

http://www.t-nation.com/findArticle...06-157-training
Click to expand...
That's a GREAT Idea! I like it... it's like a "leaning log press" of sorts. (I'll call this a BB Log Press when I try it..unless it's got an official name)

That will without a doubt tear up whatever corner I jam the weightless end in though, lol... any remedys for that?

Nice link... Front squats i've been meaning to get back around to doing, I'll have to belt up and give them a whirl again.
 
jpt said:
sarge...i would go into this with an open mind! try and do most things seated with lower back support. the workout you listed looks fine...if something hurts or bothers you then stop and figure out a way to do it without it hurting. point is you have a great frame to work with now....and whatever you do your going to see progress...it may not be strength but i bet your still gain some quality muscle while losing bf!
reverse hyperextensions are great for your lower disc's...i usually do them on the floor on my stomach with my hands a little wider then shoulder grip apart....then start bending your back backwards but keep your lower body lose (thats important) and let your arms push your weight up...DO NOT use your back.
Click to expand...
without a doubt man. thanks!

Reverse hypers? .. ab crunches? lol... hyper extention of the back = backwards, right? anyway... hypers not using the "leg holder contraption?"

Ohhhh i think i can picture what you mean... like a "yoga" type move pelvis on ground hands proping ones body up?
 
sgtslaughter said:
That's a GREAT Idea! I like it... it's like a "leaning log press" of sorts. (I'll call this a BB Log Press when I try it..unless it's got an official name)

That will without a doubt tear up whatever corner I jam the weightless end in though, lol... any remedys for that?

Nice link... Front squats i've been meaning to get back around to doing, I'll have to belt up and give them a whirl again.
Click to expand...
well i could give to shits about my gym, but look around the squat rack for a place you can stabilize the bar. and from what i know they are called landminds. i got it from my friend that works at velocity sports. from what i have noticed when i see people trying it, they twist at the hips. try and not do that and keep everything in line (im sure you have enough knowledge to know this already, but just incase).
what about one legged squats and deadlifts? i have been doing these for now and it has been keeping my back from acting up.
 
*Bunny* said:
Unless you get your butt up and do cardio in the AM, weights PM :D :evil: OR cardio on Day 2,4,6 if you wanna do SOMETHING.
Again just more ideas...
Click to expand...
lol... a.m. cardio may be possible actually, we'll c :verygood:
 
wakefib said:
well i could give to shits about my gym, but look around the squat rack for a place you can stabilize the bar. and from what i know they are called landminds. i got it from my friend that works at velocity sports. from what i have noticed when i see people trying it, they twist at the hips. try and not do that and keep everything in line (im sure you have enough knowledge to know this already, but just incase).
what about one legged squats and deadlifts? i have been doing these for now and it has been keeping my back from acting up.
Click to expand...
Thanks. I'm open to suggestion i'll try them all for sure... my routine is never concrete.

I'm just in the mindset of go heavy or go home still, lol... gotta get the outa my head for the most part.

wakefib said:
have you thought about swimming? the boyancy may help. i am going to try it when i get time.
Click to expand...
yes. I'd love to. No, I have one available to me.
 
sgtslaughter said:
Thanks. I'm open to suggestion i'll try them all for sure... my routine is never concrete.

I'm just in the mindset of go heavy or go home still, lol... gotta get the outa my head for the most part.
Click to expand...

read the article i posted the other day. it talks about western periodization and how going heavy all the time might not be the best thing for you.
 
sgtslaughter said:
without a doubt man. thanks!

Reverse hypers? .. ab crunches? lol... hyper extention of the back = backwards, right? anyway... hypers not using the "leg holder contraption?"

Ohhhh i think i can picture what you mean... like a "yoga" type move pelvis on ground hands proping ones body up?
Click to expand...
exactly....but make sure your pushing up with your arms not your back. and they are called landmines like wakefib suggested.

pm incoming!
 
jpt said:
exactly....but make sure your pushing up with your arms not your back. and they are called landmines like wakefib suggested.
pm incoming!
Click to expand...
thanks man, i'll deff give the hyper extension a try or 2 ... how long do you try to hold that by the way? sets? reps? ... casual randomness?

land mines? Na, haven't seen any class 2 explosives around the gym. lol..jk. I think i can picture what you mean... i'll just be resourceful i guess... use a squat bar pad and jam it in there or something.
 
Bumping this to new page... slight revisions in there as well

sgtslaughter said:
Day 1 – Leg Day 1 & Chest (Flat), fluff would be Med. & Ant. Delts, Abs
Day 2 – OFF
Day 3 - Leg Day 2 & Back, Traps, Ant. Delts, Calves
Day 4 – OFF
Day 5 – Leg Day 3 & Chest & Back (Arm fluff), Abs
Day 6 – OFF OFF
Day 7 - OFF

... specifics layed out... keep in mind all experimental and will be tweaked for probably a couple weeks.

Leg Press maybe substituted for Front Squats if those feel good to me...back wise.

Day 1
Leg Press 5x5, 2x8 (heavier day)
Weighted Step ups :rainbow: but they get the job done
CGBP (Close Grip Bench Press) 3x5, 3x3
DB Bench or flys (I hate flys, so probably just more pressing)
Body Weight Chins (I'm going to start doing these..no clue how many...3x3? lol)
DB Side Raises 3x8
Rev. Pec Deck 3x8
Rope Crunches 3x8
Cardio "semi" HIIT...(basically as much HIIT as I can handle, and then the rest just plain old cardio)

Day 3
Leg Press Calve Presses 5x8 or 10 (load the machine with plates day)
BB Military OHP 5x5
DB OHP 4x6
T-Bar Rows 5x5
Seated rows 3x8
High Pull Leverage Row 4x6, 1x10
Shrugs (not sure what kind I can do yet, will have to field test this)
HIIT Sprinting Cardio

Day 5
Leg Press 8x3, 2x15
CGBP 5x8
BB Decline 3x8
T-Bar Rows 4x8
Lat Pull Down 5x6
Hammer curls 3x10 / Rev. BB Curls
Skull crushers 3x10 / V Bar Press Downs 3x10
Rope Crunches 3x10
Cardio Semi HIIT
Click to expand...
*NOTE* Cardio MAY get moved to "off" days or in the a.m.

Accepting suggestions and new ideas, if you see something that may work differently... like switching a lift to a different day, ect.
 
Last edited:
So, uh, I'm really busy today and admittedly just skimmed the thread, but here're a couple thoughts...

I'd assumed front squats weren't an option, but obviously if they are that'd obviously be the best possible way to get around the fact that you can't back squat.

Particularly if your back doesn't let you do fronts and given that your primary goal is to get lean, you could drop the leg volume a bit (say, two days per week) and throw in a day of pretty high intensity sprint work.
 
sgtslaughter said:
Bumping this to new page... slight revisions in there as well


Accepting suggestions and new ideas, if you see something that may work differently... like switching a lift to a different day, ect.
Click to expand...
Pec dec is post. delts., like rev DB flyes. Maybe group all delts on day 1, day 3 looks heavy with all that back.
 
Cynical Simian said:
Particularly if your back doesn't let you do fronts and given that your primary goal is to get lean, you could drop the leg volume a bit (say, two days per week) and throw in a day of pretty high intensity sprint work.
Click to expand...
it's ok bro. Front squats i haven't done in a long time, i will give them a whirl .. lightly obviously... I think they may work because I won't get that slight lean forward in the hole that makes my back scream like back squatting.

I LIKE THAT! 2 days a week would be a good change and i was planning on doing HIIT... :) Thanks for saving me from destroying myself on that day, lol... day 2 shall be HIIT Sprints...

**GOING TO EDIT THE LIFTING SCHEME ON THIS PAGE**
 
Cynical Simian said:
Particularly if your back doesn't let you do fronts and given that your primary goal is to get lean, you could drop the leg volume a bit (say, two days per week) and throw in a day of pretty high intensity sprint work.
Click to expand...

yes, sprints seem to loosen up my back. keep the core tight while you run.
 
*Bunny* said:
Pec dec is post. delts., like rev DB flyes. Maybe group all delts on day 1, day 3 looks heavy with all that back.
Click to expand...
yes, great call on the reverse pec deck and all the delt stuff!! too much on that day!

**moving stuff around**
 
Sarge, a back injury is no reason to think you can't progress with anything....

What you could do is work the hell out of the bench.....you can do something like this.....

Monday: Flat Bench (one week 5x5, the next week to 1x3, the next to a heavy single)
Dips (HEAVY)
Something for triceps (assorted fluff)

Tuesday: Chest-supported row
Some other type of row (Hammer row??)
Chins
Biceps gallore

Wednesday: Off

Thursday: Light Bench
Overhead work (whatever your back will allow)
Incline Dumbells
Seated D-Bell powercleans (not an explosive lift, more of a combo shrug/ rotator cuff move)
Assorted shoulder fluff

Friday: Whatever leg work you can handle.....step-ups aren't gay, and lunges aren't gay either....dumbell lunges aren't gay either.......leg presses are GAYER than a $3 bill as well as dangerous, despite their reputation as being 'safe'.....people say they're safe because it is an easy excuse why they do them instead of squats, but they are about the worst thing for your back in the entire gym.

Like Bunny said....either do cardio on off-days or in the AM (I prefer the AM).....or you can just bag it, this isn't the end of the world.....get a huge bench, work the upper back/traps however you can so it is thick, and your low-back will mend in time....Seated GMs are great for rehab btw, try them out.....but I say keep cramming in the calories and go for a 3 plate bench (which I feel is more than do-able for you in the next several months)
 
BiggT said:
Sarge, a back injury is no reason to think you can't progress with anything....

What you could do is work the hell out of the bench.....you can do something like this.....

Monday: Flat Bench (one week 5x5, the next week to 1x3, the next to a heavy single)
Dips (HEAVY)
Something for triceps (assorted fluff)

Tuesday: Chest-supported row
Some other type of row (Hammer row??)
Chins
Biceps gallore

Wednesday: Off

Thursday: Light Bench
Overhead work (whatever your back will allow)
Incline Dumbells
Seated D-Bell powercleans (not an explosive lift, more of a combo shrug/ rotator cuff move)
Assorted shoulder fluff

Friday: Whatever leg work you can handle.....step-ups aren't gay, and lunges aren't gay either....dumbell lunges aren't gay either.......leg presses are GAYER than a $3 bill as well as dangerous, despite their reputation as being 'safe'.....people say they're safe because it is an easy excuse why they do them instead of squats, but they are about the worst thing for your back in the entire gym.

Like Bunny said....either do cardio on off-days or in the AM (I prefer the AM).....or you can just bag it, this isn't the end of the world.....get a huge bench, work the upper back/traps however you can so it is thick, and your low-back will mend in time....Seated GMs are great for rehab btw, try them out.....but I say keep cramming in the calories and go for a 3 plate bench (which I feel is more than do-able for you in the next several months)
Click to expand...

This looks like a great workout Sarge! Just do some sprint work for the legs and really work that upper body. It's funny that he adds that leg press are dangerous because that's how I tore my leg up last time......good info!!
 
BiggT said:
Sarge, a back injury is no reason to think you can't progress with anything....
What you could do is work the hell out of the bench.....you can do something like this.....
Monday:
Flat Bench (one week 5x5, the next week to 1x3, the next to a heavy single)
Dips (HEAVY)
Something for triceps (assorted fluff)

Tuesday:
Chest-supported row (T-Bar Row)
Hammer row (2 Options - High Pull & Low Pull)
Chins
Biceps gallore

Wednesday:
Off

Thursday:
Light Bench
Overhead work (whatever your back will allow)
Incline Dumbells
Seated D-Bell powercleans (not an explosive lift, more of a combo shrug/ rotator cuff move)
Assorted shoulder fluff

Friday: Whatever leg work you can handle.....step-ups aren't gay, and lunges aren't gay either....dumbell lunges aren't gay either.......leg presses are GAYER than a $3 bill as well as dangerous, despite their reputation as being 'safe'.....people say they're safe because it is an easy excuse why they do them instead of squats, but they are about the worst thing for your back in the entire gym.
Like Bunny said....either do cardio on off-days or in the AM (I prefer the AM).....or you can just bag it, this isn't the end of the world.....get a huge bench, work the upper back/traps however you can so it is thick, and your low-back will mend in time....Seated GMs are great for rehab btw, try them out.....but I say keep cramming in the calories and go for a 3 plate bench (which I feel is more than do-able for you in the next several months)
Click to expand...
:lmao: @ "GAYER than a $3 bill" Yeah, i'm hoping front squating goes well when I give that a go again.

Ok... the dip "contraption" at the gym i'm currently at SUCKS the big one. Last time i used it ... my hands kept slipping and I suck at them... i agree it's a great movement and I need to get better at it so long as I don't bust out a flying leg kick and beat the shit out of the "thing" i despise so much there. This time i'm armed with chalk too... so I'll give it a shot again.

The dip station at my old gym, i loved... same as the one in Tweakles video... splayed out bars, no goofy black handles on them, all metal.

I need a 3 day routine... will have to throw the friday legs somewhere amoungst the rest.

i really love the idea of the bench progression, and progression period still... just being aware of my back (it reminds me anyway, i just need to not ignore it) and I'm cutting for a bit.... I'll definetly do that as long as I can use dumbells somewhere in there for bench (incline as you said). No clue how the 1 rep max will work/be set up... but we'll worry about that then.

Seated GM's nice... i'll try them standing too, just did "Air" GM's felt fine ... sweeet.

I like you template it's not as complicated as mine, lol. And it stresses the important lifts.

Chins: Over/Over is the hardest... should I just start with that and get good at it... or go more "nuetral" grip so I can rep them out easier?

Most important... where to put the Leg Session if i'm not able to make the 4th day happen?

Should I push the Rowing... or just see what happens with a 4x6 or 5x5 over a few weeks and just increase as needed?

3 plate bench?! Wow... thanks man, lol. Let me get to 2 plates first :)
 
Sarge I'd push the supported row hard with 5x5, then do the hammer rows (there has to be enough hammer strength equipment to choose from) for 4 or 5 x8....chins, whatever you like, man.....3 sets to failure.

You can even do the leg stuff on a Sat...or on one of the mornings.....don't think of it as training, but rehab.....do whatever you can without whatever weight you can, try the GMs, try some type of ab work, do calves, the important thing is NOT to aggrevate the injury, if your upper body gets stronger as you heal and nothing gets hurt worse, then that is all you can hope for, and is pretty damn good if you ask me.

Quick question......and I am not ragging on you or giving you a hard time.......why do you want to cut right now?? The way I see it, you're not fat, you were getting stronger and stronger and building more and more muscle. You live in the northeast and the cold weather is upon us. At your height and with your frame, you have so much more untapped potential.....A major cut will set you back......now if you can top my reasons not to cut with your reasons to cut, I'll shut up, lol.
 
BiggT said:
Sarge I'd push the supported row hard with 5x5, then do the hammer rows (there has to be enough hammer strength equipment to choose from) for 4 or 5 x8....chins, whatever you like, man.....3 sets to failure.

You can even do the leg stuff on a Sat...or on one of the mornings.....don't think of it as training, but rehab.....do whatever you can without whatever weight you can, try the GMs, try some type of ab work, do calves, the important thing is NOT to aggrevate the injury, if your upper body gets stronger as you heal and nothing gets hurt worse, then that is all you can hope for, and is pretty damn good if you ask me.

Quick question......and I am not ragging on you or giving you a hard time.......why do you want to cut right now?? The way I see it, you're not fat, you were getting stronger and stronger and building more and more muscle. You live in the northeast and the cold weather is upon us. At your height and with your frame, you have so much more untapped potential.....A major cut will set you back......now if you can top my reasons not to cut with your reasons to cut, I'll shut up, lol.
Click to expand...
Ok, cool... 5x5 the supported row... for hammer strength there's only a High Pull and a Low Pull (there are row machines but those suck)... Personall I like the high pull... but since I'm going to be Chinning should I go for the low pull? Probably doesn't matter too much but it's a big difference in angles (probably 70* difference).

I feel you with the leg work... sounds good...

lol, I knew this was coming... But the most important question you left out... how long do I want to cut :) Not long :p I just want to get my BF% to a more pleasurable level... I'm fairly happy with it, but who doesn't feel more comfortable Leaner? As long as my chest sticks out farthur than my stomach i'm good for the most part... I just want to keep the diet tight and up the cardio for a month or so and take it from there ... to the Christmas cake, ect :evil: ... kind of like an insurance plan to eat like an asshole (because I'm not happy with what it does to my body :finger: lol) over the holiday season.

I think my body found a level it likes right now (with my eating how I want really...) around 216-218lbs i'm waffeling around... just time to clean up my diet and do some cardio... I think cutting cardio cold turkey was a bad idea for my body and where I prefer it to be at.

Plus, I REALLY don't want to buy anymore new work clothes right now, LOL.

Does that suffice :)

I can't wait for this weekend :chomp: ... i've kept the intake pretty clean so far this week... i'm going all out this weekend :evil:
 
Lots of good ideas in this thread.

About the only things I can think of that aren't covered are a couple of leg exercises:
If you don't like step ups, which I find can be very challenging, you can try Bulgarian Split Squats. http://www.abcbodybuilding.com/exercise3/bulgariansquat.htm
Another exercise is called Manta Ray Squats which requires an investment of $40 in a piece of molded plastic called a Manta Ray. (Just use the BB.com bookmark on your browser :) ) More popular as one of those accessory lifts used by powerlifters but I'm not sure why. The plastic takes much of the compression off of your spine and raises your center of gravity to emphasize your quads. Might be useful in a few weeks when your back can handle a load but is still touchy.
 
Maybe I didn't type this loudly enough last time: SPRINT. With that and a tighter (but not hypocaloric) diet, I'd be astonished if you didn't recomp quite nicely. And, like T, I don't think you have any good reason for trying to avoid progression. Don't use this injury as an excuse to start trying to isolate the inner bodypart X and not trying to improve at whatever you're doing. IMO, T's plan, with the addition of a couple sprint sessions (or some other form of HIIT - swimming, ergometer, sex, whatever), would get you a lot closer to your goals than some M&F pump-fest.
 
I think CS is on the money. He's posted on sprints before along w/ a few others and I've been working them in gradually. Really a first rate addition with the added benefit of cutting time off the workout. Thanks CS! :cool:
 
I think HIIT or swimming would be great....and yeah, a clean-up/recomp won't be too tough for you, I'd hate to see you go all out on a ridiculous cutting/starvation diet and lose all you worked for though.......keep upping what you can in the weightroom....in this case, focus on the bench and get the upper back nice and thick.....an injury really is no reason to change sexual orientations and go M and F, lol.
 
fortunatesun said:
Lots of good ideas in this thread.
About the only things I can think of that aren't covered are a couple of leg exercises:
If you don't like step ups, which I find can be very challenging, you can try Bulgarian Split Squats. http://www.abcbodybuilding.com/exercise3/bulgariansquat.htm
Another exercise is called Manta Ray Squats which requires an investment of $40 in a piece of molded plastic called a Manta Ray. (Just use the BB.com bookmark on your browser :) ) More popular as one of those accessory lifts used by powerlifters but I'm not sure why. The plastic takes much of the compression off of your spine and raises your center of gravity to emphasize your quads. Might be useful in a few weeks when your back can handle a load but is still touchy.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the ideas... I'm going to have to try all these 1 legged lifts.

I've heard of manta ray (they make them for front and back squats last I checked). I keep the bar very high on my traps anyway, I'm not sure that would have a benefit other than being like a "pad?"

CS said:
Maybe I didn't type this loudly enough last time: SPRINT. With that and a tighter (but not hypocaloric) diet, I'd be astonished if you didn't recomp quite nicely. And, like T, I don't think you have any good reason for trying to avoid progression. Don't use this injury as an excuse to start trying to isolate the inner bodypart X and not trying to improve at whatever you're doing. IMO, T's plan, with the addition of a couple sprint sessions (or some other form of HIIT - swimming, ergometer, sex, whatever), would get you a lot closer to your goals than some M&F pump-fest.
Click to expand...
lol, I bolded it for ya too. I hear ya... I will sprint.. don't doubt me :p I perfer to do my cardio hard and fast, keeps me from getting bored :evil:

LoL nice cardio examples. My HIIT will be mostly on the arch trainer and the step mill ... unless I feel like braving the <40*F consistant weather right now at my old track.

Na, I wasn't using it as an excuse to do more fluff... I wanted to do a full on cut for a month or so like I used to... you guys really don't know how my body respondes to the "fluff" :p ... I used to weight 170lbs let me remind you. I just wanted to have fun with it for a while... but if I can do that and progress on bench and supported row I'm happy.

BiggT said:
I think HIIT or swimming would be great....and yeah, a clean-up/recomp won't be too tough for you, I'd hate to see you go all out on a ridiculous cutting/starvation diet and lose all you worked for though.......keep upping what you can in the weightroom....in this case, focus on the bench and get the upper back nice and thick.....an injury really is no reason to change sexual orientations and go M and F, lol.
Click to expand...
No indoor pool :(
lol... it won't be a starvation diet, just no more huge steak, egg, pepper, mayo subs on white bread from the pizza joint :)

Yes, I'd rather not loose what strength I've earned, that's for sure... I think we've worked out a happy medium for me :coffee:

Bench and row are all i'm pushing it should be very smooth... and not in a razor like Venus smooth way :rainbow:

Ok T - the 3x3 top sets for Bench were working for me (I got to 205 3x3 current PR)... I didn't think I was going to change that... should we?
 
I personally think you'll do great with whatever routine you choose. Yes some routines are better then others, but sometimes you must do what you gotta do. I know you will give whatever routine you go on 100%.

DIET DIET DIET is your saviour here and you know it. Since you wont be going crazy heavy with compound movements your diet will save your strenght. I took off the two weeks and didnt lift a weight, i came back to the gym, just as strong maybe even stronger.

Glad to see that you are trying to get around this injury. What doesnt kill you can only make you stronger....

you rock sgt
KILL THAT SHIT!
 
Thanks for the ideas... I'm going to have to try all these 1 legged lifts.

if you are going to do single leg squats. you might want to try using a high box at first. it is really easy to round your back at first when you get low in the squats.
 
if your training like a mad man in the gym...even if it is fluff stuff...you will be fine and progress....don't doubt yourself. try some new things...look at this as an opportunity like biggt said...not a setback. throw in some negatives and forced reps and drop sets etc...make it tough and fun so you don't get bored missing the big compound movements.
 
For the record and those that just don't know, Sarge knows all about sprinting. Do you need a refresher course hun lol :evil:?

I do however think that if he has an imbalance in his legs & back issues (previous post of his re: chiro appt) he must be VERY careful as this can mess up his back, and all out sprints can hinder his progress, Progression sprints would be better (working up to 80%, not 100 every time), plyo work & HIIT on some cardio equipment, not forgetting skipping.

BiggT I like that break down with the 4 day.

Sarge about cutting in the winter... I think the added cardio (of the HIIT variety or even 10-20 minutes post workout cool down steady state) will help shed some bf as long as the cals are clean. I know you don't like to count cals but I really think you should fitday some stuff for a week or so to keep things in check and try not to dip below 12 X BW. Then you will get back into proper portion sizes eating for maintenance NOT for bulk. The added cardio should help while eating for maintenance and not necessarily a ‘cut’… if after two weeks nothing changes I wouldn’t add more cardio I would shave some cals off, BUT this MAY affect your lifts so at that time you will have to decide which is more important, increasing strength or cutting bf… Just keep it in mind but do NOT dwell on it as I am pretty sure you WILL see a difference keeping the cals a little higher than ‘cutting cals’ since you will be adding the cardio & T’s suggestions for chest.

We definitely have the cutting ideal in common b/c I am going to come off my caloric excess to start eating more for maintenance, with added cardio, since I’d like the extra cals for some strength work I am going to be. You can easily structure a cut around the holidays making your cheat days on the days you know you will eat/drink heavily, like Thanksgiving, Christmas & New Years. Not that you like structure or anything lol :) but it can be done with a little planning while still enjoying yourself.
 
jpt said:
if your training like a mad man in the gym...even if it is fluff stuff...you will be fine and progress....don't doubt yourself. try some new things...look at this as an opportunity like biggt said...not a setback. throw in some negatives and forced reps and drop sets etc...make it tough and fun so you don't get bored missing the big compound movements.
Click to expand...


No you will not - keep it real Sarge - for that matter start a new log and post up the workouts and progress for the big boys to comb through

You better not - If you do I am out of whatever club we are in!

;)

I agree w/ T and CS 100%. I think getting away from progression and going towards iso stuff is a bad idea. The worst thing you can do besides aggrevate the injury is lose strength. You have worked really hard to get your bench up, and I'm sure you don't want to loose it. Maybe sprinting will save some of the quad strength so when your ready your numbers won;t be that bad. I also like the one leg on chair squat thingie that was posted above - the guy in the animation looked pretty meaty!

On diet just get he steak sandwich on wheat w/ out mayo if you must, but still eat. Please eat.
 
Imbalances? What imbalances?! lol... :rolleyes: I won't even start on my Left:Right imbalances.

hehe... Sarge was a track star biznatches :D ... well ok, not really I was on the weight team though :)

Yup, if I get outside I'll be doing literally ass kicking sprints... and reverse kicker sprints, ect... crazy culo style.

FINALLY... chiro appointment in about 20 minutes actually after i finish eating I'm off to get cracked... my lower back is tighter than a pickle jar so i'm not going to let him try to do that cuz that just hurts like a bitch.. get my neck and upper/middle back good though hopefully.

:) Thank you Buns... Of course you're going to be cutting a little bit.. wtf... we always do the same thing, LOL! :insane: :cyclops:

I'm already getting tighter finally eating a crapload of veggies and meats... this is what i'm looking for, now if I can get a bit leaner doing this and eating a bit more while doing HIIT I'll be happy as a clam.

Bunny :( .... 12 x 215 = 2600 cals :worried: lol although I have no basis to argue that yet until I fitday what a "normal" eating day is like currently though... we'll work on that :)

I know what to do... just time to put it into action, aye.
_________________________________________________________
Wakefib: Box noted :) thanks!

JPT: Thanks bro... I'm deffinetly going to be doing random stuff besides my main lifts and do some of those haven't done them for a good while. Actually cutting out squating 3x week and heavy ass pulling (deads, millions of power cleans, ect) my benching should be miraculous :evil: :) Time to get good at the lift I most despised when I was a little guy benching 65lbs :worried: lol


You guys all kick ass and should get "Good Job Cookies" :Chef: :) Thanks all ... really :coffee:
 
sgtslaughter said:
Bunny :( .... 12 x 215 = 2600 cals :worried: lol although I have no basis to argue that yet until I fitday what a "normal" eating day is like currently though... we'll work on that :)
Click to expand...
I believe I said do NOT "dip below 12 X BW" ... :D I also wouldn't go [too high] ABOVE 3200 either unless it's the day prior a heavy lifting day or a day you wanna kill it doing something crazy. :) Use your instincts here...
You can handle 3200, it's cake.

I respect all these guys over here but I will say there is NOTHING WRONG with doing isolation exercises AFTER hitting your focus lifts first. If I ever agreed to that I would have to throw ALL my progess, both increased LBM and strength gains, out the window and THAT I will never do.
 
al420 said:
No you will not - keep it real Sarge - for that matter start a new log and post up the workouts and progress for the big boys to comb through

You better not - If you do I am out of whatever club we are in!

;)

I agree w/ T and CS 100%. I think getting away from progression and going towards iso stuff is a bad idea. The worst thing you can do besides aggrevate the injury is lose strength. You have worked really hard to get your bench up, and I'm sure you don't want to loose it. Maybe sprinting will save some of the quad strength so when your ready your numbers won;t be that bad. I also like the one leg on chair squat thingie that was posted above - the guy in the animation looked pretty meaty!

On diet just get he steak sandwich on wheat w/ out mayo if you must, but still eat. Please eat.
Click to expand...

so your saying you can't gain strength by using negatives and drop sets huh...pretty ineteresting. i disagree :)
sarge- there is nothing wrong with isolation movements and as you guys would call it fluff stuff. the worst thing you can do is continue to lift extremely heavy with this injury... i wouldn't even chance it. that's how people seriously hurt themselves and cause a permenant setback like me....my back hurt and continued to try and make pr's week after week. worse thing i could have done! listen to your body and do what you feel is right....if you can handle the heavy core lifting kill it and do assistance exercises after!!! but don't worry about what people are going to say on this board. take your time..this is not the end of the world
 
JPT: I know bro... I appreciate you looking out we've chatted about this.

Back from chiro... he doesn't think it's a disc issue... he said it was from some hip imbalance (aka why my left leg is longer when i go in and when i leave the chiro my legs are closer to being equal length) and my lower back being tight as phuck still... i'm going back in tomorrow... next 4 weeks i'm going to be seeing him ALOT hopefully get this bastard back in line.
 
*Bunny* said:
I believe I said do NOT "dip below 12 X BW" ... :D I also wouldn't go [too high] ABOVE 3200 either unless it's the day prior a heavy lifting day or a day you wanna kill it doing something crazy. :) Use your instincts here...
You can handle 3200, it's cake.
I respect all these guys over here but I will say there is NOTHING WRONG with doing isolation exercises AFTER hitting your focus lifts first. If I ever agreed to that I would have to throw ALL my progess, both increased LBM and strength gains, out the window and THAT I will never do.
Click to expand...
lol, ok :) I gotcha 2600-3200 range or a 7,000 double banana split sundae splurge before a big leg day :chomp: :D

You're a :qt: ;)
 
*Bunny* said:
I respect all these guys over here but I will say there is NOTHING WRONG with doing isolation exercises AFTER hitting your focus lifts first. If I ever agreed to that I would have to throw ALL my progess, both increased LBM and strength gains, out the window and THAT I will never do.
Click to expand...
I guess it gets lost in our derision of isolation-heavy routines as "M&F/Flex voodoo crap", but it's not the isolation lifts themselves that are the problem, it's the shotgun approach.

sarge, I see no reason not to treat your isolation work like you do your compound lifts: pick a couple lifts for each bodypart and get very good at them, rather than doing 37 different variants of the same lift in a row and praying that something works.
 
You mean to say I can't do swiss ball reverse plyo stability pronated grip with an opposing stance with the cables for 56.8 reps...because those burn the most fat I've heard :worried:
 
sgtslaughter said:
You mean to say I can't do swiss ball reverse plyo stability pronated grip with an opposing stance with the cables for 56.8 reps...because those burn the most fat I've heard :worried:
Click to expand...
:xeye: I cannot even picture what you just described lol

:11shot:
 
*Bunny* said:
:xeye: I cannot even picture what you just described lol

:11shot:
Click to expand...

It is in M and F...issue 135/volume 13. I also believe it is T-Mags 'exercise of the week'. lol, jk

Sarge, I hope I didn't run ya the wrong way.....I know squats and deads and cleans are out, just don't 'shotgun' it like CS said with no plan for progression.......big stuff first, and even with iso-fluff, train it consistently and for progress.....you'll like the hammer low rows, and just keep adding weight to them each time.
 
BiggT said:
It is in M and F...issue 135/volume 13. I also believe it is T-Mags 'exercise of the week'. lol, jk
Sarge, I hope I didn't run ya the wrong way.....I know squats and deads and cleans are out, just don't 'shotgun' it like CS said with no plan for progression.......big stuff first, and even with iso-fluff, train it consistently and for progress.....you'll like the hammer low rows, and just keep adding weight to them each time.
Click to expand...
lol...bro, I read that article 3 years ago... I used to have a stock pile of old muscle mags from back in high school :rolleyes:

*salutes*

No, over course not... we're on the same page.

Progression, get better at the lifts, avoid lifts that tweak my back, HIIT Cardio... i think I hit all the main points besides EATING :chomp: lol
 
al420 said:
And according to a FEW can still build strength - s u r e
Click to expand...
just b/c someone is not doing all 5x5 work and all compound core lifts does not mean they can't get stronger...that is what i'm trying to say :)
 
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