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My Quest to COMPETE - BEAT THE DISEASE!

JKurz1

JKurz1

Banned
**MODS** PLEASE DON'T MOVE AS THIS HAS AS MUCH TO DO WITH AAS THAN IT DOES DIET AND TRAINING.


Well I know many of you and many have helped me out more than you can imagine. I know I’ve pissed some off, frustered the hell out of others, and some have no idea about my history, but after a zillion im’s, everything from PLEASE START A LOG, to hows my cutting diet, I’ve decided to try one last time to start a log to track my progress.
I listen fairly well, so I do love constructive critisim. If this turns into a slam fest, it will be my last time, and I’ll move on to try to accomplish this feat with the helop of a specialist. Long story short, I have or am in the process of killing a eating disorder. In college, 10 years ago, I was a stud. Honestly. Not to boast, but I was a BMOC. I was a outside linebacker (ok, div III, but still), about 245, at 6’1 and maybe 12-13% (abs visibible laying down etc)….I just ate. I trained heavy. And I partied with the best of them. I ran some dumb cycles, pct was unheard of, and made some pretty good gains. Benching 375 in my lst set for a few…squatting ATF with 3+ plates for 12…..good strength. Well, I graduated and quickly found myself behind a desk, as a CPA for 8-10+ hours a day. Coming from an athetic backround, this killed me, I started reading and reading and reading everything about diet and I was terrified now of getting fat because I sat all day. So I started eating small meals a day, doing cardio 7 days a week in the am, training 7 days a week in the pm, no gear, all I thought I needed was boatloads of protein. I then did a few triatholons, stepped on the scale a few years later and was 190. Same height, but I HAD ABS! I became een more concerned with losing them. So I apparently cut my cals even more. And more. And more and here I am. A victim of exercise nervousa, where I wouldn’t eat jack if I didn’t know or hadn’t worked out that day.

Well, to stop with the boredom I am still a CPA still sitting all day, more knowledgeable then even on diet and training, but applying them to myself is what is killing me. I had my test levels checked and they came back off the charts low. This scared me even more as the more I read the more I learned that low test = fat storage even if you are active. So, the doc put me on Androderm weened me off and it did nothing. So I decided a few weeks ago to take matters nto my own hands. I was/am depressed, sick, weak, etc. I went from375 bench to 275. Then 200, then 175 and before I knew it, 5 sets of 5 at 135 is tough!

SO, I met this trainer, nationally known, who looked at me a few weeks ago and said “You could compete at the local level buddy, but right now, you are in a state that I’ve never witnessed before” BUT I HAVE ABS! Yes he said, and so do ethopians. You are 6’1, you should be 180lbs just to be normal. I weighed in today at 162lbs and refuse to have my bf tested as I know it’s low, very low. So low that my hands and feet turn numb, my back aches. My stomach aches, etc.

So he said would you give me a shot. Sure I said, but what the hell does he want with me? Anyways, it’s now his project. To get me on stage, to beat this disorder and to turn me back into the guy I once was. So here we go. I’ll post the diet he wants me to follow to a tee. It’s been one full week and I am struggling mentally and physically. I am eating cals in an ungodly amount, for me anyeays. Prob.4x as much as I was, but I am not permitted to count the macros. I will post my daily routine, feelings, etc and would love to hear from you guys to keep me on track. Ill ask questions to help get me over the hump, to fight through it, but losing the ABS, getting blurred out in the definition area is so depressing, esp. when I still do cardio, so that’s why I need you guys: Day #1 starts semi today, and all out tomorrow (Today is my scheduled off day!)
 
HERE IS THE DIET AND TRAINING SCHEDULE –

Any input will be wonderful but it was carefully drawn up, studied, etc. Not just slammed together. I am worried about so many cals, esp. from training to bed, but I need to stick to one plan and one plan only. I am open for suggestions, but please don’t make this harder by discouraging me, as I said, I respect you guys and listen wit both ears open:


DIET:
250MG TEST CYP/WEEK – 250MG EQ/WEEK
CREATINE, GLUTAMINE, VIT BS, AIMF, SPLENDA, SPLENDA, SPLENDA!

730 (75 CARBS)
OATS 1.25 CUP
(1/4 raw oats)
1 TB OF PB
EGG WHITES 9
EGGS 3

10 (80 CARBS)
OATS 1 CUP
CHX 6 OZ
PINEAPPLE 1 CUP


1230-130 (70 CARBS)
CHIKEN 60Z
YAM 10 OZ
HUGE SALAD!

PRE TRAIN (1-2 CARBS)
300-330 CASEIN 2 SCOOPS
PB 2TB

5:30 TRAIN

615-630
GATORADE 3 TB (75 G CARBS)
VANILLA
VANIALL BLEND 50

7:15
CREAMERY RICE 3 SERV (100 G CARBS)
WHEY 2.5 SCOOPS
OR (DEPENDING HOW BLOATED STOMACH CRAMPS, ETC)
A SLEEVE OF RICE CAKES, CHEAP CEREAL PUFFS, ETC. (100 G OF CARBS WORTH)

800
BROWN RICE 3 SERV (80 CARBS)
6OZ ROGUHY
ASPARAGUS 8

9:15 (ON MY PILLOW!!!!!!!)
FLANK 8OZ (28G FAT)
WHITES 4
OR
1 CUP COTTAGE CHEESE, 30G OF FAT FROM NUTS AND NUT BUTTERS, LARGE CASEIN SHAKE!


9:30 – LIGHTS OUT
 
OH and he says it’s MANDATORY FOR ME TO HAVE 2 CHEAT MEALS A WEEK. TWO FROM FRIDAY – SUNDAY – WHATEVER I WANT, HOW EVER MUCH I WANT, I SHOULD FEEL MY HR INCREASE, TEMP. INCREASE, SWEATING, ETC. THIS MAY E THE HARDEST PART!



TODAY! THE NEW BEGINNING
WEDNESDAY, AUGUST 16TH, 2006

SCHEDULED OFF DAY, MAN I HATE THESE DAY! ARE THEY REALLY THAT NECESSARY??? LOL

YESTERDAY TOOK MY 125MG OF CYP, 125MG OF EQ, AIMF

WEDNESDAY

530am
WAKE AND 30 MINUTES OF REALITIVELY LIGT CARDIO, 2.8-3.2 SPEED, 12% GRADE INCLINE WALK FOLLOWED BY ABS, AND A FULL CYBEX CIRCUIT OF 15 REPS, EVERYBODYPART, JUST TO GET THE BLOOD MOVING AS I KNEW TODAY WOULD BE NO TRAINING!

7:15
Decided since I am off, and resting, I will reduce my carb intake, and increase fats which many people do – is this dumb? He said he would give me an off day diet, but I am certain all he meant was taking out the fast acting carbs. I will have the bulk of my carbs in my second meal!
SHAKE
1 TB OF FLAX
1 SCOOP CASEIN
40G PROTEIN FROM EGG WHITES
COFFEE, ½ CUP SKIM

Mentally – depressed. Looking at the abs fade and still doing cardio rustrated me even though my cals haven’t been that high for more than 2 days.
 
JK, good luck to you, I'll be following along. Just remember, right now, abs aren't a good sign......improved lifts are a good sign, and big, swollen muscles are what to look for in the mirror.
 
10 (80 CARBS)
FEELING OK right now....about 10:30, usually feel drug out and beat up...I'll just post my macros and training at the end after this gets going. I truly truly appreciate all the support. Of course I am gonna get slammed by some, but will shrug it off like youve all insisted.......Today is my off day. I should take about a month off, but this is a start. Ido have to take it off, right? Tell me why again? Lol.....do u typically eat the same, carb wise on and off, gear vs nothing? Are my thoughts to cut all starchy carbs after this am meal right on?

10:30
1/4 cup oat bran
1 cup rolled oats
45g protein from eggs, skim, casein
(No fruit, no chx, save that for on days)

maybe its the aimf, maybe the test...who knows, feel bloated, but overall feel better.

What do I do for my next meal...usually 10oz yam, replace it with what? I do want more fats and pro when off right?
 
keep ur head up.... After this hot ass hell summer i've gone from 178 to 162 ish at 5'8 and look like i gained fatty weight... I just can't win this summer...
 
With regards to your diet, I would substitute the egg whites, whey, and chicken for red meat (Lean ground beef, Rib eye,etc.). In my opinion, you need more red meat in your diet.
 
my fats will come bro...I have 3 eggs and a tb of pb in meal 1, my 2nd and 3rd meals both have chicken breast, which has a minimum of 10g of fat each + I have red meat in #3 too mixed with chx.....preowrk has another 20g of fat........prebed has another 25-30.....If I hit 75 I'm ok, maybe we'll adjust later. thanks fior the reply though.
 
JKurz1 said:
So I apparently cut my calls even more. And more. And more and here I am. A victim of exercise nervosa, where I wouldn’t eat jack if I didn’t know or hadn’t worked out that day.
Click to expand...

About oh ........ 15 years ago

Remember when StairMaster was the rage in the gym? (I'm dating myself here) - I thought I was brilliant when I figured that I would only eat the amount of calories that day based on how many I could burn up steppin' and when that wasn't good enough - I cut that calls in half. I would level 10 for 90 minutes - then finally if I ate that day (yeah that bad) I did it twice.

It's a easting disorder - it's not uncommon with athletes.

If I can get grip on it - YOU can too.

I was barely a teenager when I learned to think that hollow starving feeling in my stomach was doing me something good.

Anywho.

You're going to feel bloated, you're going to feel fat and but the damage to your body you will prevent from doing by just getting through this will save you years of struggle.

I can pick a person out with an ED in a crowded restaurant just by watching them so those of you out there that think you're hiding it or think you really don't have a problem - you are mistaken.















ps. If anyone makes me regret admitting that publicly I swear I will go ape on you. :) Thanks for understanding.
 
THANKS BABE.........i know there a ton out there, I just beat it by 50% admitting my problem. Thanks for all the feedback, suprised only one critiwue to my diet thus fat...no one has said, boy thats a ton of cals, so from my eyes, maybe it and from the mirror getting blurry abs maybe it is, but all in all, I guess its pretty solid.

Why is it so frusterating looking in the mirror and flexing and seeing the abs fade? I could get away with it if I knew my cals were crazy and I di no cardio etc, so maybe I should stop the cardio all together for mental purposes and just train hard...sure I ll lose definition but the test and eq with help along with this solid diet.

People say your abs will look 10x better at 200lbs than 150....is that true?

I just spoke with my trainer (Tommy) and he says "who the hell told you to change macros on your off days????" ummm....So, not a good start.....I just figured I needed less carbs on off days, but I guess from str8 leg deads yesterday and cardio this am, I'm still stoked......"who the hell said you dont need a in the bed meal?" Ummm....and he then said "Jeff, I told you 3 days, max 20 minutes incline walk very slow, decent rampp for heart puroposes only, you've done three in a row, including your OFF day and you did it on an empty stocach after I told you to have a shake w/ whey and pb befor hand".....fme......not a good start, time to ramp up the cals.

If you guys are willing to send me addresses, I will pay u in the form of protein bars (lol, I know, but I have a friend who closed a shop and gave me about 8 cases.......

thnx again....back on track! I call this the feel out period, pretty soon I wont even have to think about it........wondering about these two cheat meals, it's been so long I truly have no cravings. I still go out to eat now, still get a nice steak or fish, just never desert.....I am truly tuly in the mood for 3 things....a fat quiznos sub, a fat ass pizza, popcorn, kids ceral, and PEANUT BUTTER!!! I guess its more than 3 but those are my true cravings...next meal in 1 hour.

6-8oz of chx lean beef
veggie steamed
large salad
 
JK, keep on board.....nobody is going to tell you it is too many cals because it ISN'T too many cals, so stop listening to that little voice....it isn't a voice of reason, it is a voice of rationalization, trying to ratioalize an irrational eating disorder.....keep eating, and introduce a cheat in here and there, slowly the cravings will come back.

btw...I told you I was a college meathead in the mid/late 90s also, and you bring back crazy memories when you say PCT was totally unheard of, lol....so was cycle planning....lol, it was test and d-bol for 8 weeks, shrunken balls for 2 weeks after.
 
I'm in. Good luck! Don't worry about those abs. You can get them back later. Just worry about eating and heavy weights...
 
BiggT said:
JK, keep on board.....nobody is going to tell you it is too many cals because it ISN'T too many cals, so stop listening to that little voice....it isn't a voice of reason, it is a voice of rationalization, trying to ratioalize an irrational eating disorder.....keep eating, and introduce a cheat in here and there, slowly the cravings will come back.

btw...I told you I was a college meathead in the mid/late 90s also, and you bring back crazy memories when you say PCT was totally unheard of, lol....so was cycle planning....lol, it was test and d-bol for 8 weeks, shrunken balls for 2 weeks after.
Click to expand...
lol same here guys would put on 40lbs on a cycle back then to lose it all and look tiny within 2-4 months after their last shot,every one used to always complain how you never keep the gains and lose it all but they still did it lol.Those were the good ole days NOT.
:p :p
 
JKurz1 said:
Why is it so frusterating looking in the mirror and flexing and seeing the abs fade? I could get away with it if I knew my cals were crazy and I di no cardio etc, so maybe I should stop the cardio all together for mental purposes and just train hard...sure I ll lose definition but the test and eq with help along with this solid diet.

People say your abs will look 10x better at 200lbs than 150....is that true?
Click to expand...

JKurtz If your diet and training are on track the end result will be awsome......take pics my friend!

RADAR
 
RADAR said:
JKurtz If your diet and training are on track the end result will be awsome......take pics my friend!

RADAR
Click to expand...
thanks to all.........now that I hjave your support, please feel free to gra a bag of popcorn and let me "entertain" you with my daily logs....this will also help me relieve some anxiety as I can use it to express my feelings, sort of a sound off board.

Radar - pics were taken on my camera phone. I'll u[pload them....they arent to hot, from the neck down, but it'll serve as a momento from by "ab" days.....I appreciate everyone, you have no idea what your support means to me. Honeslty....I'd love to host a meet-up when this is all over...........

I do have a few questions/concerns/worries.........I want you to think in the terms of bodybuilding, not my condition:

Meal #2 - WHy is there pinneapple? Aside from tasting like shit, (which he says taste great with chx and oats) all it is doing is spiking my insulin in mid-am, correct? Why not a banana? Why no fruit at all and jst more oats or cals? Would you nix it? Just a ?

Are my macros from the time I get done training, to the time I go to bed too much for someone my size and are my cals overal too much? 4 meals between 6:15 and 10:00 with about 2,000+ cals seems excessive no? Do I really need that many? Do I really need a 4,800 calorie diet? Yes, I have test therapy at 250mg/aweek - 300mg. But does this mean I can eat that much more? Keep in mind, with my mind set, I can tolerate a tin bit of blurred definition, but to become skinny fat (as I am still weak) will not happen. I would rather be skinny and lean and weak, than fat and weak...see my point?

Does the addition of test allow for me to utilize more food?

Does anyone eat oats raw?? I mean raw with drinking a glass of water? Is this the cause of my bloat, stomach distress, etc? Are they digestible? Wasted cals?

I'll have more, but tis all for now...you guys are great if you can asnwer these!
 
THURSDAY THE NEW BEGINNING -
515 WOKE
felt weird this morning, feet and hand were sorta of numb, stomach really in distress, bloated pelvic region like I swalled a beach ball. Not sure why, I got this this itchy feeling in my stomach....I am wondering if it's just too much sf products for my body to absorb and/or the combination of eating dry oats (1 cup a day).......I eat em dry because they taste good and also, the more water I add, the more it's harded for me to get in the rest of my meal. SF gum, is by the case too....damn, we'll see. Took a few asprin, seems to help a little

CARDIO
20 minutes, 12% incline, 3.0 speed
10 minutes, 3.7 speed, 8.0 incline
abs, stretching -
Early frustration - I am eating a moderate amount. Still trying to get sed to the diet in full, and I am still doing light am cardio. YET, my abs are still blurring out. I'd rather have my abs blurred knowing I am no longer doing any cardio than have it this way, cause then I feel like, when I ry and cut, hell, I'll have to do 2 hours of cardio a day! oR IS ALL A MANLPULATION OF DIET?

My other problem is I really love my pm pw meals. Therefore, my mind doesnt allow me to finish all my am meals, as I want to be secure and happy pounding the food late night knowing that my cals were under for most of the day. See what this disease does?

7:00am
3/4 cup oats
another 1/4 cup oats dry
a shake mixed with egg whites, skim, and casein - splenda and sf sryurps! Taste like dary queen!
1 tb of almond butter (problem here is I am prob using 1/2 tb, as I just fork out a little cause I really don't eant to go overboard and i have trouble measuring it
large coffe, more splenda

now in the office! DELTS AND TRIS TONIGHT AT 4:45PM!
 
JK.....don't worry about the abs blurring, actually, it is just water and fluid from being well-fed (something you haven't been used to in several years).

You just need to remember that you're trying to build yourself back up and you need all those calories, it isn't a 'diet' or even a situation where youre keeping an eye on your weight, so don't think if you eat a lot ofter your workout that you have to make up for it by skimping in the morning......it's important to get all your cals in.....not getting in your calories when bulking up is just as self destructive as eating ice cream and french fries when you're trying to cut.

About the oats, I eat most of mine cooked, I don't eat raw oats in that amount, with raw oats, I throw them in a shake for a little crunch and I like it a lot.....oats are very filling though.....if you can feel more comfortable by cooking them, then cook them, but this just may be sort of like a 'getting used to' period and your body will adjust.......with increased cals and feeling uncomfortable, you can look into a digestive enzyme pill.
 
Meal #2 - WHy is there pinneapple? Aside from tasting like shit, (which he says taste great with chx and oats) all it is doing is spiking my insulin in mid-am, correct? Why not a banana? Why no fruit at all and jst more oats or cals? Would you nix it? Just a ?

Are my macros from the time I get done training, to the time I go to bed too much for someone my size and are my cals overal too much? 4 meals between 6:15 and 10:00 with about 2,000+ cals seems excessive no? Do I really need that many? Do I really need a 4,800 calorie diet? Yes, I have test therapy at 250mg/aweek - 300mg. But does this mean I can eat that much more? Keep in mind, with my mind set, I can tolerate a tin bit of blurred definition, but to become skinny fat (as I am still weak) will not happen. I would rather be skinny and lean and weak, than fat and weak...see my point?

Does the addition of test allow for me to utilize more food?

Does anyone eat oats raw?? I mean raw with drinking a glass of water? Is this the cause of my bloat, stomach distress, etc? Are they digestible? Wasted cals?
 
There are food allergies out there, I know someone allergic to oats and they will bloat up if they eat too much... it does screw with some peoples digestion is all i'm saying. If raw is screwing with you. Cook it. Not in a microwave... in a pot on the stove :)

...just another way to prepare it

Yes, too much of any one thing can't be good unless it's balancing something else out. If your eating a ton of sf stuff... could be messing with you too. still chewing gum 24/7? ... along with all the splenda, ect.... can't be good in huge amounts.
 
I chew at least 15 pieces a day.......prob. 15 packets of splenda....I think it's the liquid stevia that was hurting me.......

Ok, in my 2nd meal, I discovered a few things:

it was 1/2 cup oats, another 1/2 dry, and 1/4 cup of str8 oat bran
40-50g of protein from egg whites, whey, and skim
1 cup pineapple

I cook the first part, eat the other portion of oats raw and eat the pineapple mixed in.

I stopped short of eating the full 1/4 cup rolled oats and for the first time, added in the pineapple. I feel 10x better, bt still a tad bloated. tomorrow, I am going ZERO dry oats, switching the BRAN to another 1/4 cup oats and making this simple, just like it says in the diet

1 CUP OATS
6OZ CHICKEN
1 CUP PINEAPPLE......DONE. NO MORE 1/4 here and 1/4 here......f-it........I just need to eat!

As much as I try to reduce the gum, I have zero luck....I chew 10x less on the weekends, but office work makes me keep myself entertained. I also feel better on the weekends.

Why are my hand and feet numb when I stand for awhile. I know I have low bp, but is it beccause I am so damn skinny, my body is actually dieing? When I'm in the gym, Im totally fine, but during the dqay, I get these bad stomach pains, numbness, etc........wtf???? You can see my blue veins in my hands and arms...sorta scary! Please weight come on!
 
good stuff bro...yah cook it up and eat :RADAR

Try some random streching in your chair... walk around when you can, I know I do.

Deep Tissue massages will help circulation as well... they work miracles for me bro.... I'm trying to make it a point to get least 1 / month.
 
so in college you were 245 with 12 to 13% bf (in my opinion pretty damn large and moderately lean). now your still the same height but 162 with 6 or 7% bf? so you dropped 6 to 7% bf and 80 pounds since college?

stop complaining about every single little item your trainer has recommended and do what he says. i've read dozens of your posts and they all sound the same. you have a nationally known trainer guiding you. he knows more than you, listen to him. it sounds like you may need to talk to a mental health professional about obsessive compulsive disorder, i have seen it in action for the past few years and you fit the bill.

good luck and put the weight back on. your doing yourself no good wasting away and dropping weight for no reason, especially if you were that big in the past.
 
timtim said:
so in college you were 245 with 12 to 13% bf (in my opinion pretty damn large and moderately lean). now your still the same height but 162 with 6 or 7% bf? so you dropped 6 to 7% bf and 80 pounds since college?

stop complaining about every single little item your trainer has recommended and do what he says. i've read dozens of your posts and they all sound the same. you have a nationally known trainer guiding you. he knows more than you, listen to him. it sounds like you may need to talk to a mental health professional about obsessive compulsive disorder, i have seen it in action for the past few years and you fit the bill.

good luck and put the weight back on. your doing yourself no good wasting away and dropping weight for no reason, especially if you were that big in the past.
Click to expand...
Hey tim...thanks...that'll be enough now....no need to follow.
Actually I'm only 5'5 now..have a wonderful day :verygood:

Sarge - Thanks homie...will update this pm...
 
biggt - need your help, something is wrong. I have ben following this deit to a tee. Look at it now. Its high in cals, good cals, but high. I never asked ?s.....other than wwhat does this do, meaning I have eaten every last morsel (or made a valid attempt)....sometimes I toss in a tad xtra to make sure my measurements are pretty accurate. Anyway, I a m a little stronger in the gym, still feel burnd out, but a little stronger. The 20 minues of cardi I thought had to go as its the one thing that I am not listening to. But, I stepped on the scale today at am 172.....I was 152 when this sared 13 days ago. Ummm......Buehlerr...? Abs are gonezo, and my fear is gonna come true. All this weight is gonna stick to my stomach and since my muscles are so burned out, its gonna store it there instead of utilizw i for musclemass.....Im turning back.
 
Good luck bro. Your on test and eq you can get away with eating a ton and not getting fat. Just wait for it to really kick in. Listen to your trainer and stop listening to everyone else. Its ok to question things, but you have to follow things to a T if you want to get where you want to be.
 
Neo22 said:
Listen to your trainer and stop listening to everyone else. Its ok to question things
Click to expand...
^^^

and...

It's ONLY been 13 days... not even 2 full weeks bro.

Your metabolism will take more than a few weeks to get used to eating what you need... give it 3 months bro... remember what you came from!!

You're up some GOOD weight... you're muscles will start taking over before you know it. Don't be shortsighted man... stick it out..

Hey, on the bright side... you know how to cut after your done bulking leanly :)
 
biggt - need your help, something is wrong. I have ben following this deit to a tee. Look at it now. Its high in cals, good cals, but high. I never asked ?s.....other than wwhat does this do, meaning I have eaten every last morsel (or made a valid attempt)....sometimes I toss in a tad xtra to make sure my measurements are pretty accurate. Anyway, I a m a little stronger in the gym, still feel burnd out, but a little stronger. The 20 minues of cardi I thought had to go as its the one thing that I am not listening to. But, I stepped on the scale today at am 172.....I was 152 when this sared 13 days ago. Ummm......Buehlerr...? Abs are gonezo, and my fear is gonna come true. All this weight is gonna stick to my stomach and since my muscles are so burned out, its gonna store it there instead of utilizw i for musclemass.....Im turning back.



FRIDAY -

Scared man........I gotta beat this........30 minutes of light walking today, 1 cup oats (only got through 3/4) 1 tb of almond butter, 12 egg whites, 1 full egg........
 
JKurz1 said:
biggt - need your help, something is wrong. I have ben following this deit to a tee. Look at it now. Its high in cals, good cals, but high. I never asked ?s.....other than wwhat does this do, meaning I have eaten every last morsel (or made a valid attempt)....sometimes I toss in a tad xtra to make sure my measurements are pretty accurate. Anyway, I a m a little stronger in the gym, still feel burnd out, but a little stronger. The 20 minues of cardi I thought had to go as its the one thing that I am not listening to. But, I stepped on the scale today at am 172.....I was 152 when this sared 13 days ago. Ummm......Buehlerr...? Abs are gonezo, and my fear is gonna come true. All this weight is gonna stick to my stomach and since my muscles are so burned out, its gonna store it there instead of utilizw i for musclemass.....Im turning back.
Click to expand...

Don't look into it at all......the 152 wasn't even your actual weight......it is kind of like when somebody dehydrates themselves and depletes themselves and they drop 10-20lbs in a day or 2, then they eat a solid meal and slap it all back on.......over the course of a couple days, you did NOT get fat.

I think the problem is that in your mind still, the scale shouldn't be moving up......you need to get past that, you need to follow the plan to reach your goal, and your abs will fade before you get there, you can either finally get past this stage or keep running into a brick wall.

If your abs aren't as sharpe as they were, it isn't because you magically got 'fat' in a week or two, you're just well-fed and holding a little water, it is necessary and it is going to happen.

You're a smart guy, you've been a lean 245 before, just relax......re-read your post and see how irrational it sounds......everything is going like it should, just have a little faith and some patience. Think of the test and eq as added insurance too, that will help. If you want to see this through, you'll have to deal with not having razor sharp abs year-round, you've been at this bridge a couple of time the past month.....lets just cross the damn thing already and do this thing.
 
4:00pm
wide grip pulls 4 sets 8-12

Deads 5 x 5

close grip puldown to chest 4 sets 8-12

barbell rows , (or dbell row) 4 sets of 6

seated rows 4 sets 8-12

rear delts
reverse cable crossover 4 sets
kneeling one arm cable 3 sets


thoughts?
 
Again, man, if you make a committment to work with a trainer, I understand that, and there is nothing wrong with that routine......I am not saying it sucks and then giving conflicting info.....it is a solid workout if you get to the core of it and trim off the unnecessary fluff...... I'll always give my honest opinion and I'll never BS around with you......when building mass, it is as simple as getting good at big lifts, if you're having a 'back day', I would do deadlifts (5x5), BB Rows (5x5, then 1 or 2 backoff sets in the 8-10 range), then 3 sets of chins all to failure and call it a day........two types of pulldown moves and 2 types of rows, plus the rear delt iso stuff is like cramming 10lbs of shit in a 5lb bag, you won't grow from doing a bunch of random crap at every different angle, you'll grow from getting good at what counts.......that said, if you keep getting better at the deadlifts and rows and the other stuff doesn't cause you to lose focus, then it's harmless, inefficient, but it won't hurt you.........if somebody cites a pro BBs routine, well, when you have the test levels of 20 men, it cancels out inefficient training and lack of focus/progression because your stimulus is so enhanced.
 
This routine will build mass though, correct?

I switched up the routin he gave me....he said do all of the above, but deads were 3x8-12 and rows were 5 sets of 4-8.........i think my outline is more condusive to gaining mass, agreed?
 
JKurz1 said:
This routine will build mass though, correct?

I switched up the routin he gave me....he said do all of the above, but deads were 3x8-12 and rows were 5 sets of 4-8.........i think my outline is more condusive to gaining mass, agreed?
Click to expand...

Of course it will build mass....so long as you keep adding weight to the bar on the deads and rows on your chosen rep range every week, and you EAT as planned, you're gonna grow lots of muscle.
 
BiggT said:
Of course it will build mass....so long as you keep adding weight to the bar on the deads and rows on your chosen rep range every week, and you EAT as planned, you're gonna grow lots of muscle.
Click to expand...
last week It was a struggle with 225 5 x 5.......I mean the last two sets I rested for 3-4 mins....so this week I go 230? COrrect? What if I fail? Drop back down?
 
I never really got a solid answer on the trt.......will the addition of 300mg test and 300mg EQ allow me to eat more clean cals without the fear of becoming skinny fat?That is my total fear. Feeling completely bloated all day makes me feel like a fat whale which makes me feel like all the weight is getting put, where men tend to store it....in the tummy......
 
Steroids promote better nutrient partitioning and they promost improved body composition.....in fact, the one surefire way to tell if somebody you know is using is the dramatic body recomp they go through, so of course it will help.

As far as the DL, a 3-4 min rest b/t sets is fine.....go to 230 this week, I have a feeling it will be a lot easier than you think.....you're NOWHERE near what you're capable of yet, you can make even bigger jumps once you've got a good couple weeks of increased cals in.

JKurz1 said:
I never really got a solid answer on the trt.......will the addition of 300mg test and 300mg EQ allow me to eat more clean cals without the fear of becoming skinny fat?That is my total fear. Feeling completely bloated all day makes me feel like a fat whale which makes me feel like all the weight is getting put, where men tend to store it....in the tummy......
Click to expand...
 
JK -- it always takes a bit of time for you both mentally & physically to adapt to a change in diet & program. One thing about committing to working w/ a trainer is to listen to what he says & follow it to a tee. If you second guess his program w/o seeing the larger progression, it may screw up what he's trying to accomplish. I think a good trainer will explain things to you tho - so I would suggest that when something doesnt' make sense or you don't get the reason, ask! But also don't come on here and ask for different opinions when the trainer is the guy driving it. Add input from here to whatever he says, but don't take input w/o the trainer's explanation as well. If he doesn't answer your questions, then I'd either give him shit about it or look for a different trainer. IMO when trainers take you on, they also take on the responsibility of talking to you & answering questions.

RE: the bloat feeling -- ginger root is a good supp for settling your stomach if you do feel like its uncomfortable all the time. But generally the diet you are getting is probably extremely different from what you are used to - so first give it time to adjust and don't scrutinize your body every day - that is as bad as climbing on the scale every hour & freaking out over a 1/2 lb change. Scales suck for tracking progress as they measure bone, lean muscle mass, bodyfat AND water. And speaking as a female w/ the monthly thing, water weight can be an easy 10 lb gain over night. The scale is just a number. In & of itself it is almost worthless as a measurement. I suggest also a re-evaluation of how you "measure" things going forward - again another mental switch that will help you going forward:

1) How do you feel? More energetic? Stronger? Sleep better? Less stressed?

2) How do your clothes fit? These are static measure that you know how each pair of whatever feels on a day to day basis. Looser? Tighter? Tighter / Looser in different places?

3) How you look - this is a catch-22 if you are measuring "how you look" by presence or absence of abs. I don't find looking in the mirror to give me an objective view. Its better to take pix and then look.

4) Bodyfat measure - you said you didnt' want to do this yet. An interesting thing where you know you are already very lean is to look at the relative changes on each pinch point so you aren't just looking at the overall compiled number, but the changes at each of the points - can give you insight into where you tend to hold water or bodyfat or where the muscle mass is increasing. If you look at the changes relative to what your diet has been recently, also gives you an idea of what parts of your diet make you retain water or fat or whatever. But just like the scale, it is just a number and better to look at in terms of relative changes than the actual number. (Also noting at least +/- 2-4% in error).

Like biggt said, the AAS will promote muscle growth & recovery. The EQ will help w/ your appetite, though test may make you retain water a little. But the skinny fat part --- you can bulk or cut on pretty much any drug, because it is driven by your diet & training. If you are eating to build and training to build, hard to get skinnyfat.
 
JK, it's been a few days, whats heppening?

Also, on an unrelated note, whats the word on Mt. Union this year? Out in my neck of the woods Wilkes and Del Val look good, and Lyco is always gonna be Lyco.......I haven't heard much about Rowan.
 
It was a hectic day..of course I have an ED...I admitted that awile back and I think that's why I know I can beat this on my own (and with your helo bros, of course, just not doc material YET)....like I said, hectic day...some financial problems etc. got in the way of my eating. Trainng was a bi,tri chest delt max effort day. I just wanted to see where I stood because tomorrow is quads so upper body will get a rest. I am weak plain and simple and that's the second most worrysome part. Bigt says with weight gain will come strenthg so I guess it doesnt help having like 150 carbs today. Yikes...no cheat meal either. I gotta hit all my meals tomorrow..relax on the cardio and get some friggn ice cream and a loaded steak and pototoe....I wont do it...Im too much of a friggn wuss...I ned to spend a day just dvoring food...but that skinny fat syndrom fing scares me.

No word on college football...Ill keep ya updated boss...and tomorrow I'll update in my detail. Anyone else cheating? The more, the easier it will be for moi....
 
JKurz1 said:
Anyone else cheating? The more, the easier it will be for moi....
Click to expand...
I have no shame:

I ate 1 large pizza with 'roni last night (minus 3 slices that were taken from my pie, lol) ... cheesy bread... some brownies (NOT special ones :rolleyes: ).

Early I grubbed on a bunch of double stuf Oreo cookies.
Tonight I had some great desert... cake, ice cream... now i'm having a couple tasty, frosty, Newcastles.

... I'm sure that's not all for the weekend either. I do eat clean inbetween otherwise to get protein in :)
 
I love my "cheat meals" My fav is a large mom & Pops pizza with a cold pitcher of mitchelob light Draft!

I'm in heaven!


RADAR
 
sunday

whelp, today didnt turn out like it was drawn up. Dont wanna rant and rave but I planned to reduce cario and finally listen from 30 minutes, 6 days a week to 20 minutes. Also planned on reducing speed from 2.8 and incline to 12%, down from 3.0-.3.5 for 30. Well, I succeeded, for the most part. Went for 20 at 3.0 instead of 2.8, just a snail pace.
It's amazing how more complacent I am with loseing my abs and gettn a lilltle blurry when I think that my cardio has been reduced severely and if I need to cut, I'll just crank it back up. Tomorrow wed and riday and my planned 20 minute slow walk before breakfast.

2nd, I didnt have my cheat meal yest so I had 2 scheduled for today. A huge brunch buffe then to gmas for a huge steak, potates and a fat sunday. 0 for 2. I didnt go to brunch and dinner was a 4ozbuffalo steak and 4 of taliapia. Instead of a potatoe I had a acorn squash. No ice cream. So I suck at cheating.....I could cheat this whole week if cheat meals get carried over. Talk to me....

#3 an inense leg session, squat is very weak, but I need to do them to get beter. Knees pop, anklces fizzle, but it's becuase Ive killed my joints being so dealthy skinny. I did do a pretty intense quad ab and calf session. 1 for 1. At least this came true.

#4 mentally stop looking in the mirror as Im not gonna get skinny fat. Even if I weak, as long as I go to failure, strength with come with mass, right?

#5 another 125mg of test and eq scheduled. Hit em both and feeling good. 1 for 1

#6 hit every meal, no misses, skips, half meals. Do it and do it to the max everyday! Today, nailed em all and am faded, bloated to hell. I lik it, it's like beating my head and mind into the ground. That devil says ok, no more food. WHile you guys say, you need it....you need it.....finish it. So, we are winning that battle. Spent all of 4 hours prepping each of my 8 meals for the week. Still concerned with wednesday, my off day...he says I should make no changes! none! Not switching from carbs to fat, not reducing cals. He also even wants me to have my pw and ppw meals and shakes. This is bizzare, isnt it....why the hell would I nned 3 servings of crweam of rice or 10 rice cakes and another 200 carbs throughout the night if I didnt train??? Will karma to answer that logically.'


So overall, my mind was too concerned with hitting everymeal, not skimping on measuremnents and training as hard as I could for 45 minutes. Headphones on...go to town, then eat!

So, all in all, I need to learn to cheat. Very weird. It's kind of like saying I need to learn to be a human. 2ndly, afer meeting with an old client yesterday. I really have the fear in me. I helped him train and he won the EAS transformation contest about 4 years ago. He's still grateful. So grateful, today he gave me prob. $1,000 worth of rtds myoplex carb sense, lite and regualar. Havt used em, but tommy says hey are a perfect protein. Drink em whenever the hll u feel like. Drink em at 4am, drink 10, who cares, his motto is more is better. He's like that with everything. On bench, when he spots me with the bar (lol) he's always like come one skinny, lets roll, 10 is good 12 is better.


anyways, my client told me to stop fucking kidding myself. I have an ed...I need to corret it now. My face looks sunken in, my eyes drawn back...etc. He said I knew you at 225 when you honeslty looked like a smaller arnold and the girls melted. The last part I dont rmember, lol, but the first part reminds of a great time in my life. Never counted cals, never look at anything but fat grams, tiny bit of cardio, and training daily. Fuck I use dto eat pretzels, peanuts, protein bars, ice cream tacos.....like at 10pm, i neve cared till I started reading and reading and reading...knowledge fucked me up.
 
MONDAY August 21, 2006

WOW! I thought for sure there would be a few posts slamming me and telling me how important cheat meals are let alone not missing meals, etc. But nothing? One of two things. No one read it yet, or you’ve decided to let me go. Hmmm…

Anyways, woke up today about 5:15am after a semi-ok night. I had a small toke from a neighbors bowl around 8 hoping it would relax me and increase my appetite last nigh, but it really didn’t do much of either. I wish I could find something safe, that had the alcohol or drugs effect, but non addictive…..non detrimental, etc. You know? Something to make me relax in the evening when all these thoughts get tossed through my head, and increases appetite.

Oh well, like I said, goal this week is to train my ass off #1. Reduce cardio #2, get all my meals in #3, eat just like I would on any other day on my off days #4. Keep me on track boys!

Anyway, I won’t bore ya.

Cardio was 20 minutes (feel like a fat fuggger) at 12% and 3.0 at 5:30am.
Abs and stretching afterwards

645 Meal 1
1 cup oats
1 tb of pb
1 scoop whey
2 eggs and 9 egg whites
Large coffee
Water
(NOTE – NICE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Killed it all!)

I think I found my problem. Well, right now I feel really really good (careful, this may change) No bloat, no stomach distress etc. I cooked the oats in egg whites and peanut butter and scooped in some whey. (BTW – this is an INCREDIBLE meal)

Normally, instead of scooping in the whey, I’d make a shake. Here’s what I’d put in it. Davinchii sf syrups, splenda, scoop of whey, carb sense skim, ice and about 1 cup of egg whites. Makes a frothy shake and they I’d pound it with my oats. I’d also eat ½ cup dry.

I nixed the shake today, but still had ½ cup dry, with splenda and stevia, no syrups.

Conclusion – can’t draw one from one day, but if I had to, I’d say it’s the friggn frothy shake or the sf syrups that made me sick for the entire day. It made me feel fat, bloated, etc. I have some minor minor bloated feelings, but nothing like before. We’ll see tomorrow.

OR….it could be the 20 minutes of cardio. Maybe my body was getting too taxed at 35 minutes….maybe it was trying to recover from me trying to kill it and then me trying to eat really made a mess. ORRR, finally, it could be the fact that I ate my meal while driving to work. Eating oats and drinking coffee while driving should be illegal but it forced me to SLOW down my eating….before, I’d eat in a matter of 2 minutes. Hmm….what are your thoughts.

2 weeks in –think the test is coming on? I’ve taken 5 125mg shots of both cyp and Eq every 4-5 days. This puts me at maint. Or slightly higher…..that coupled with the reduced cardio is an amazing mental feeling. I can be happy with loseing cuts and stratiations knowing my cals are jacked, my cardo is nill, and some may be water bloat…..boy was that a post.

OH, finally, the worst note thus far……..I weighed in today at 152. Told ya the weekend really f-d me up! Boys, this is not funny…….I need 75 pounds in 15 months or my goals, his goals to be close to on stage are destroyed. I’ll be happy with 50 and not competeing!
 
lol... i read it, didn't comment though.

I think you should carry the cheat meals over into the week... just go out to dinner or something... order a pizza. Go out and get a huge banna split sundae, ect...

Good to see you pound down the whole meal :)
 
JK.....I didn't lose interest, I just passed out last night around 9:30.....you SHOULD have had those cheat meals, it'll come though, you're making huge strides and you won't be where you need to be mentally overnight.

You won't get skinny fat.....if you're eating as directed and adding weight to the bar each week that won't happen.......is this week 2 of the test/eq? Wait until the test kicks in, you'll feel like God's gift, lol.....maybe that will help you chill out a little and enjoy a few cheat meals.

I'll post more when I get to work, didn't want ya to think I forgot about you.
 
Glad to hear about breakfast today......sometimes a shake will sit funny with me too, especially if I pound it down (which I normally do, lol). So, I'd stick to what you did today.

With Cypionate, I personally always would start to feel it on week 3, after 2 full weeks......you should feel a sense of Euphoria, and walk around all day in a great mood. I'm generally a little shy by nature, but I'd be going around at the grocery store or wherever striking up conversations with random people, singing along to even the gayest songs on the radio that I would normally turn off........and the hard-ons, lol, you'll get raging hard-ons all throughout the day, you'll feel like you're 13 years old again, lol........but seriously, since you made the choice to use it at this time, think of it as money in the bank and added insurance against getting skinny-fat (which you wouldn't even without it, but still if it helps to think along these lines, it will help).

Cheat meals....we need to take care of this problem and put it in the history books once and for all.....you just need to have one and get on with it, it is getting to the point where you are putting them up on a pedestal so to speak and 'putting them out of your league'.....the more you put them off, the harder they will be to finally do.....just eat one ASAP......if I lived closer, I'd meet you at Quizno's for lunch for a proper cheat meal........I think your lunch today should be a cheat meal.....Is there a Quizno's by the office?? If not, go to the nearest place you used to like and just order what you want.....do it today for lunch, conquer this beast, and it will be smooth sailing from here on out and you'll actually look forward to them, hell you'll probably cheat once a day and feel great about it, especially when you're all Cypionated up.

Eating cals on 'off days'.......it is just where your mindset is.....when trying to drop weight, people only eat as fuel, they manipulate carbs depending on workouts etc etc......this is NOT condusive to your goals......not eating on an off-day is just as bad as a trip to Dairy Queen for burgers and blizzards in the middle of a cut....it is retarded, calories are calories are calories.....your body needs them for recovery and fuel and to support the growth, you're a growing boy once again, remember. I personally love off-days and I tend to eat the most when I am off.....think of it as fueling up for your workout.......eating a tray of pizza on Wed will be good for at least 10 more lbs on your bench press on Thurs, it'll make your joints feel good, you'll feel full and stable, and you'll look swollen and huge....the added weight you are using will provide even more of a stimulus and give your body even more of a reason to grow slabs of muscle. Thats the mindset you need......thats what your goals are......at 6'2" you're gonna look hulk-like......nobody says the hulk is fat, do they?

I'm also serious about the lunch-time cheat....DO IT TODAY.

Congrats on the chilling with the cardio too.....you're a smart guy and if you know how to beat your mind, do it.....20 min of walking at 3.0 is all the heart needs, and thats all you wanna do, get up early nd keep the heart healthy, you're not doing this to drop weight or keep fat at bay.
 
how about after my post workout meals....around 7-8 tonight....even though bed is at 930....I could sneak in a few candy bars and some ice cream...then my predbed meal...right?
 
JKurz1 said:
how about after my post workout meals....around 7-8 tonight....even though bed is at 930....I could sneak in a few candy bars and some ice cream...then my predbed meal...right?
Click to expand...

Well.....here are my thoughts.....candy and ice cream before bed would be a step in the right direction in your case, BUT, you're putting it off....."I'll do it later"....."I'll do it tonight"......it is just prolonging something you've been prolonging for 4 years.......if you weren't at the office, I'd say do it right now......but seriously, man......go out to lunch and get a normal meal like a hoagie with chips.....or a chicken sandwich with mayo and fries (I don't even drink sugery soda myself, so I will let that slide, lol)....then after dinner tonight have a couple scoops of ice cream.......but I am telling you, JK, I am COUNTING on you having a 'cheat meal' for lunch......you've gotta turn the corner.......you'll thank yourself, these won't be so much chores and just cramming down junk that you know is junk, it'll be a much needed mental treat and you'll get great pleasure.....once your body adjusts, you'll feel so full, and satisfied, and swollen, the cheat meals will really elevate your mood and make you have violent thoughts about destroying some weights at the gym tonight........LUNCH TODAY.....I want a full report.
 
not happening bro....sorry.....I am training at 3:30, but in order to do so, I must attend a luncheon/conf......byol.....sort of thing.....10oz yam and 6oz chicken with salad....sorry to dissapoint. But I got all afternoon!
 
3 MEALS DOWN THE HATCH....feeling a little stuffed....actually very stuffed, but just friggn deal with it.......3rd meal finished at 1:15 Here's what is slated for 3:30ish

CHEST
flat DUMBELL bench 2 warm up x 10
4x 6 to 10
incline bench (OR SHOULD IT BE SMITH) 3 x 6 to 10
flat BARBELL bench 3 x 8 to 12
DBELL incline fles 2 c 6 o 10
cable cross ove drop set

BIS
straght bar curls 5 x 6 to 10
alternating seated DB curls 2 x 8 to 12
rope curls 1 x dropset


thoughts? I am so weak! Damn I need to get these lifts up!!!
 
First of all, don't Smith it.....if it were me, I'd pick either flat or incline barbell and do that first because you can overload the body with more weight, more weight is a greater stimulus and a greater reason for the body t oadapt by getting bigger and more muscular......so, I would start with either incline or flat barbell.....then pick a dumbell press to do afterwards. Say you did flat barbell and shot for 4 sets of 6, then do incline dumbell for 4 sets of 12, then finished off with the fluff stuff.......you're gonna provide a reason to get big by then going in each week and trying to either add weight to your bench over a rep range or add reps with the same weight, progressively doing more work.
 
Well, now I am fing depressed.....first let down in the gym since I started this diet....today I hit every freaking meal except the blend and pb before training as I got to train earlier.....so I was feeling good, solid, pumped....

ot to the flat dbell bench and last week I got 65 for 6 with a spot...had no spot today and could barley get two as it was a struggle to get em up, so I spent most of my energy in doing that.....then incline smith I stayed the same weight and reps....so in flat bench, I dropped back down and tried to do more reps with a lower weight and blasted through that....set PRs in ytraining bis, so I think it was really because my cals were awfullyu low this weekend, and instead of sat being my off day, I went in a did 5 x5 bench, military and then an arm session.....so I didnt listen and paid the price. I need to learn to friggn listen. Trust me, Im done doing shit on my own, what he says goes....do you gus ever have set backs like this? Is it normal? I almost feel like not eating cause whats the point in slamming cals, wehn my strength isn't moving...also weighed in today at an all time low. Something aint right....I'm toning down the cardio yet still coming in weak? Tell me this is normal and next week I'll crank it out...
 
AND...fuck the cheat meal today! I want it to be a reward! I was weak today, def. not condusive to being rewarded...yes, I still ate my pw meals and my ppo. It's now 7pm and instead of my normal schedule 8oz flank steak and egg whites, I'm going with 5 oz of dry cyrd cc and a tb of pb....prob less cals, but I fing feel like it.......it's protien and fat......good for me.
 
Help me prep for tomorrow and kill some shit..I feasted all day today and will do it again tomorrow. If I do, itll be the first time ever I hit every meal 2 days in a row...I got hammys, calves and abs. I really want to blast my self, get some test flowing, build some serious muscle doing deads and goodmornings.......what should e my scheme....I will do seating and standing curls too, but the first two are where I will build the muscle!! I want to EARN my pw meal (LOVEEEE 10 RICE CAKES AND A THICK SHAKE!! DAMN IS THAT GOOD! PLUS I TOSS IN SOME KIDS CEREAL!!! GOAL IS 100G OF CARBS. Sometimes I have 3 servings of cream of rice. You guys ever eat this? Pretty fing good with two scoops of whey! Then it's 3 servings of brown rice...sometime I switch to 1.5 cups of oats. Today I had 1 cup of oats and a huge acorn squash, mixed up with egg whites, lean beef and oragne roughy....good thing about the diet is these all feel like cheats to me! lol....so good.....although I dont know what Id do w/o splenda.
 
JKurz1 said:
AND...fuck the cheat meal today! I want it to be a reward! I was weak today, def. not condusive to being rewarded...yes, I still ate my pw meals and my ppo. It's now 7pm and instead of my normal schedule 8oz flank steak and egg whites, I'm going with 5 oz of dry cyrd cc and a tb of pb....prob less cals, but I fing feel like it.......it's protien and fat......good for me.
Click to expand...

Brother, that right there is more unhealthy thinking. You DO deserve that cheat meal. From the sounds of it you deserved one for a long time.

With heavy training, the eq and test, all along with plenty of food will make you swole, big, built etc it will NOT make you 'skinny fat'.

You are doing good so far. Don't give up, but please ease up on yourself. You are at a point where you could eat a cheat meal every day and not have to worry about it for a long time to come. So don't deny yourself something once or twice a week. In my opinion, I think you should do a whole cheat DAY once a week. I'd have you sit down and do nothing but eat for a whole day.

Try not to over think it all. I know it's hard when your mind is racing and you keep having negative self talk, but remember you aren't alone. You have all your brothers and sisters here on elite. Anytime you feel like you are going to break from the set out plan or feel like it's too much, come on here and talk it out. You seem to be doing this now and thats a good sign!

Don't worry about feeling weak on todays lifts. I think it was all the extra cardio you were doing. That will run you down and rob you of energy. Plus you never followed any of the cheat meal ideas. A nice pizza will have those lifts going up thats for sure! Keep at it brother, it WILL get easier each day, each week. You are doing good so far. :)
 
JK......it's perfectly normal and expected to be weaker than planned when you haven't eaten enough a day or two before the workout.......thats why it is also important to pound down the calories on your off-day.......also, don't go adding in workouts, you had to learn that on your own the hard way, but chalk it up to a lesson learned......the extra workout, the lack of cals all weekend, and the extra cardio sessions on played a role in what happened on the bench today......next Sunday, go to brunch, and also eat dinner at your grandmother's and have the sundae, then use that as fuel to blast up some PRs on Monday at the gym.

What happened today is normal and would have happened to anybody if they ate like u did all weekend, added in an extra workout, etc......don't sweat it.

If anybody on this board deserves a cheat meal, it is you. As for the gear, if you don't eat, you might as well flush it down the toilet also.......this is a long-term thing, don't think of things like you are on a diet or trying to lose weight, extra cals are good and will help you be that much stronger the next workout.

We're all behind you......
 
Oh bullshit….I need to stand up for myself here. I having been eating more cals than 95% of the people posting on this thread, prob. The board, so to tell me I’ll waste the gear if I don’t eat, is crap. I know this. And tis why I have reduced my cardio 10 fold. Maybe something else is wrong. Maybe I have diabetes too. Maybe I need to get checked out. I am eating everything on this diet. I am forcing myself. Yes, post workout I have been lacking a tad. I ant you to look at what I’ve had the last three days postoworkout compared to my scheduled diet and tell me if this is the reason, I cant’s believe it is.

Starting with my 3pm casein and tb of pb. I have that always!

Then I train from 5-6:15

Then I have 8 rice cakes at 9g of carbs each, with 1.5 scoops of whey at 6:30-6:45
Suppose to be 3 servings of cream of rice and 2 scoops of whey (100 carbs)


Then I have at 7:30 ½ cup of oats, 6 oz of fish or lean beef
Suppose to be 3 servings of brown rice (100carbs)

Then at 9pm I have 1tb of pb and 6oz of dry curd cottage cheese
Suppose to be 8 oz of flank, 3 egg whites.

Today, did 20 mins light cardio and my weight is now down to sub 150lbs….why the hell am I losing weight????????
 
JK, if you're hitting the 4200 cals or 4000 cals or whatever you had planned, you shouldn't be losing weight. I just posted what I did because you said yourself you missed meals this weekend and didn't get your calories in, what you say is all I have to go by.

Your post-workout meal (protein, rice cakes etc) is fine.......For dinner, I'd have a whole pound of fish/beef instead of 6oz though, and just for the sake of the shit going together and being somewhat enjoyable have the rice instead of the oats and maybe throw in a sald or green veggies......maybe you like it, but damn, fish and oats, lol.

I don't think there are enough cals in the 9 PM meal.........if you're hitting the calories that the trainer feels you need to hit throughout the day, then it is all good. I'm not alarmed by the post-workout calories, it is a nice amount of clean food, but it isn't jaw dropping or anything.

JK, I am not a medical expert or anything......is it possible that anorexia has screwed up your metabolism/endocrine system? I guess it can happen, I have no idea, if you'd feel better about all this getting everything checked out, then by all means do it.

Just a quick question......and don't take it the wrong way, lol......why not just eat like you did when you were in college?? It was enough, it was enjoyable and stress-free, and it WORKED.

PS,

you don't eat more than me with this diet, lol
 
be hypothetical....say I'm getting 3,500 which is a far cry from the truth......I still wouldnt should be losing weight!
 
In all honeslty big t........Im ready to cash it in....take a few months off......relax........do nothing...be lazy.....just be normal.
 
JK.....you have to do whats best for you......I'd like to see you reach your goals, but honestly, a few months off and being lazy is much, much better than overtraining and starving yourself (not that you're doing that now, but you have a history of doing that). You need to do what you need to do......with your history, it wouldn't be fair to say 'suck it up'...'don't be a pussy' etc etc......I think this is still doable. Has it been 2 full weeks since you started the test/eq? You've got to make a decision in your best interest, I'm here to support that.

I don't know what your individual metabolism is like.....TYPICALLY 3500 calories every day should keep you well above where you are right now (150-160) though, so yeah, you're right about that.
 
just in a lot of pain bro...feels like Im clogged up, back hurts and feels like my inside itch....ever had that weird ass feeling? I dont know, just feels like something aint right...maybe it's my body thanking me for the excess cals....maybe its also telling me to stop the cardio completely and listen , for once in my life.....I just feel even worse post training and I dont want to have to use drugs to relax me and make my pain go away so that I can eat!
 
two problems i have with this. firstly the eq needs to be at 400mg ew to do anything. also i only see a 6 oz piece of fish and a 6 oz piece of chicken. dude do you really think you are gonna grow off of that kind of diet. you need cals and you need some more chicken and some lean beef. i am 185 about 6.5% hydro measured and i'll tell you right now i started eating 2lbs of beef ed and its changing everything. listen man if you are trying to bulk get some real protein like muscle milk or myoplex, get 300g of protein in a day. add at least 10 more oz of chicken and about 16oz of beef to that diet. i see that you have those supps in there to get fat and protein but you need good old fashion beef. my best friend is Division 1 lacrosse for a top 5 school. he is 215 single digit or he has to run it off for the coach. he trains like an animal but they use absolutely no shakes at all. i know shakes are important but he only eats beef or chicken. straight after workouts he takes in 2 skirt steaks. this is what you need to do if you are 162 and that low of bf you should be able to eat any and everthing. if you want mcd's eat it anything you want man. its great you don't have to worry. if you are feeling back pain and cramped up you might not be getting in enough water with your food intake. you need at least 4000-5000cals man. best of luck JK
JKurz1 said:
HERE IS THE DIET AND TRAINING SCHEDULE –

Any input will be wonderful but it was carefully drawn up, studied, etc. Not just slammed together. I am worried about so many cals, esp. from training to bed, but I need to stick to one plan and one plan only. I am open for suggestions, but please don’t make this harder by discouraging me, as I said, I respect you guys and listen wit both ears open:


DIET:
250MG TEST CYP/WEEK – 250MG EQ/WEEK
CREATINE, GLUTAMINE, VIT BS, AIMF, SPLENDA, SPLENDA, SPLENDA!

730 (75 CARBS)
OATS 1.25 CUP
(1/4 raw oats)
1 TB OF PB
EGG WHITES 9
EGGS 3

10 (80 CARBS)
OATS 1 CUP
CHX 6 OZ
PINEAPPLE 1 CUP


1230-130 (70 CARBS)
CHIKEN 60Z
YAM 10 OZ
HUGE SALAD!

PRE TRAIN (1-2 CARBS)
300-330 CASEIN 2 SCOOPS
PB 2TB

5:30 TRAIN

615-630
GATORADE 3 TB (75 G CARBS)
VANILLA
VANIALL BLEND 50

7:15
CREAMERY RICE 3 SERV (100 G CARBS)
WHEY 2.5 SCOOPS
OR (DEPENDING HOW BLOATED STOMACH CRAMPS, ETC)
A SLEEVE OF RICE CAKES, CHEAP CEREAL PUFFS, ETC. (100 G OF CARBS WORTH)

800
BROWN RICE 3 SERV (80 CARBS)
6OZ ROGUHY
ASPARAGUS 8

9:15 (ON MY PILLOW!!!!!!!)
FLANK 8OZ (28G FAT)
WHITES 4
OR
1 CUP COTTAGE CHEESE, 30G OF FAT FROM NUTS AND NUT BUTTERS, LARGE CASEIN SHAKE!


9:30 – LIGHTS OUT
Click to expand...
 
I know...everyone but me is 225 and single digits......I agree..........I need to up the meats.....and I will, but the calories man are cranked....protein is protein, I agree food is better and my only shakes are post.....and pre.......its getting in the cals when I feel like I am a bloated blurred whale while is the prob.....as for water intake........I am pissing every 1/2 hour........crystral light and h2o by the gallon.
 
My thoughts is that you are overthinking this. I'm not slamming you, I'm just going to ask something. How do you have almost 10k posts and yet your asking newbie questions?

It truly sounds like you have a problem that needs more help than anyone here can give you. You know what you need to do. My thought is drop the cardio alltogether, lift heavy weights, and cram food down. Food is one of the best things on this earth, what did you use to enjoy? You have been told over and over what to do, yet you keep coming back asking the same question in different ways. I wish you the best of luck, hope you find what your looking for..............

Monopoly
 
yea dude i just don't get why you are working out like a guy on a cutting cycle. quit the cardio start eating like a horse and get in the weight room. i am not 225 single digit, i am very similar to you in build i just take what god gave both of us and use it to my advantage. it sucks that its hard to put on weight but being able to eat anything and stay lean is awesome. you are so worried about your abs, well i am too and ive pmed you my diet which is 5500 cals and 300g of protein. i never put on an ounce of fat. start bulking man and if you get fat something is wrong, i gaurantee you won't. this is all in your head. if you really can't get over the hump and start eating like bulker you really need to see a doctor not a trainer.
 
JKurz1 said:
Oh bullshit….I need to stand up for myself here. I having been eating more cals than 95% of the people posting on this thread, prob. The board, so to tell me I’ll waste the gear if I don’t eat, is crap. I know this. And tis why I have reduced my cardio 10 fold. Maybe something else is wrong. Maybe I have diabetes too. Maybe I need to get checked out. I am eating everything on this diet. I am forcing myself. Yes, post workout I have been lacking a tad. I ant you to look at what I’ve had the last three days postoworkout compared to my scheduled diet and tell me if this is the reason, I cant’s believe it is.

Starting with my 3pm casein and tb of pb. I have that always!

Then I train from 5-6:15

Then I have 8 rice cakes at 9g of carbs each, with 1.5 scoops of whey at 6:30-6:45
Suppose to be 3 servings of cream of rice and 2 scoops of whey (100 carbs)


Then I have at 7:30 ½ cup of oats, 6 oz of fish or lean beef
Suppose to be 3 servings of brown rice (100carbs)

Then at 9pm I have 1tb of pb and 6oz of dry curd cottage cheese
Suppose to be 8 oz of flank, 3 egg whites.

Today, did 20 mins light cardio and my weight is now down to sub 150lbs….why the hell am I losing weight????????
Click to expand...





I go by phoros or the mirror,you cannot rely on scales to guage your progress because the intake of food and water add weight after eating.


RADAR
 
bruce410 said:
yea dude i just don't get why you are working out like a guy on a cutting cycle. quit the cardio start eating like a horse and get in the weight room. i am not 225 single digit, i am very similar to you in build i just take what god gave both of us and use it to my advantage. it sucks that its hard to put on weight but being able to eat anything and stay lean is awesome. you are so worried about your abs, well i am too and ive pmed you my diet which is 5500 cals and 300g of protein. i never put on an ounce of fat. start bulking man and if you get fat something is wrong, i gaurantee you won't. this is all in your head. if you really can't get over the hump and start eating like bulker you really need to see a doctor not a trainer.
Click to expand...
I want you to be flat out dead serious...just don't write something to please everyone else or act like a hard ass Bruce....I appreciate your concern now help me out. Take my diet, copy onto te next thread and edit it how you would.....be serious....I am interested in it for informational purposes...I might come talk to you in betwen therapists. Seriously, post it now. And by changing meal 1 to 3 big macs and a pizza is what you are gonna do, dont waste your valuable time. SOme will giggle bt it's expected that someone will do that.....go ahead. Please.
 
My man Bruce is on the money with this. Hey man , also don't split the eggs. Eat whole eggs. Egg yolk has cholesterols in there that can help you grow. It is also calories

Steak is a good idea due to the fats in there. Drinking some oil and coconut will help too

bruce410 said:
two problems i have with this. firstly the eq needs to be at 400mg ew to do anything. also i only see a 6 oz piece of fish and a 6 oz piece of chicken. dude do you really think you are gonna grow off of that kind of diet. you need cals and you need some more chicken and some lean beef. i am 185 about 6.5% hydro measured and i'll tell you right now i started eating 2lbs of beef ed and its changing everything. listen man if you are trying to bulk get some real protein like muscle milk or myoplex, get 300g of protein in a day. add at least 10 more oz of chicken and about 16oz of beef to that diet. i see that you have those supps in there to get fat and protein but you need good old fashion beef. my best friend is Division 1 lacrosse for a top 5 school. he is 215 single digit or he has to run it off for the coach. he trains like an animal but they use absolutely no shakes at all. i know shakes are important but he only eats beef or chicken. straight after workouts he takes in 2 skirt steaks. this is what you need to do if you are 162 and that low of bf you should be able to eat any and everthing. if you want mcd's eat it anything you want man. its great you don't have to worry. if you are feeling back pain and cramped up you might not be getting in enough water with your food intake. you need at least 4000-5000cals man. best of luck JK
Click to expand...
 
Talk to me also about this COMPLETE off day thing I'm having such a hard time with. Remind you I sit all damn day in an office. How should my diet change. Today:

Woke up - 530 am felt tired and a little beat up from str8 leg deads last night. Did 20 minutes - 25 minutes of 2.8-3.0 incline walk on 12% grade followed by a full machine circuit to pump up the blood. 12 reps, light weight abs and went home

7am
3/4 cup oats (knocked down from 1 cup)
50 g of protein from eggs, whites and a fat scoop of whey
1.5 tb of natty pb....large coffee...splenda

My next meal wont change - 1 cup oats, 6oz chx, 1 cup pineapple

then heres where I typicall change....instead of a 8oz yam, I brought in a 10 oz acorn squash...love it! but do I need more carbs? add in some oats?

3pm meal?

5pm meal

pre bed?
 
You say this is a day off but it begins with you in the gym... I think if you want to beat this your mentality needs to change. This is not a day off if you started it in the gym....

JKurz1 said:
Talk to me also about this COMPLETE off day thing I'm having such a hard time with. Remind you I sit all damn day in an office. How should my diet change. Today:

Woke up - 530 am felt tired and a little beat up from str8 leg deads last night. Did 20 minutes - 25 minutes of 2.8-3.0 incline walk on 12% grade followed by a full machine circuit to pump up the blood. 12 reps, light weight abs and went home
Click to expand...

Jkurz1 listen to me. Please stop the morning cardio on an empty stomach... This is the first step to recovery. Stay in bed and rest which will help your muscle recovery.

You admit that you were tired when you woke up. This may mean that you did not get a good night sleep

JKurz1 said:
7am
3/4 cup oats (knocked down from 1 cup)
50 g of protein from eggs, whites and a fat scoop of whey
1.5 tb of natty pb....large coffee...splenda
Click to expand...

This meal seems alright to me but I would eat WHOLE EGGS instead of just egg whites. Also as Bruce suggested try to eat more solid food instead of shakes to get calories. Why not some bacon or breakfast sausage?
If you want to skip sausage , where are you EFA's in your diet? tuna for omega 3's and/or some flax seeds sprinked on cooked eggs. A teaspoon of cod liver oil. Some borage oil pills...

I think the oats should be saved for night time as it's a slow digesting carb. Then what did you mix the shake with. Try orange juice or milk

JKurz1 said:
My next meal wont change - 1 cup oats, 6oz chx, 1 cup pineapple

then heres where I typicall change....instead of a 8oz yam, I brought in a 10 oz acorn squash...love it! but do I need more carbs? add in some oats?
Click to expand...

With the exception of the pineapple , which I talked about in another thread, these are complex and slower digesting carbs. I see no reason to decrease them. More water as well...

JKurz1 said:
3pm meal?
Click to expand...
A late afternoon @work meal could be tuna , some sausage that can be microwaved , yogurt, fruits. A big salad would be good here. Tree nuts or peanuts will also work here. Cashews , Macademia , Almonds , Walnuts , Pecans. This will add calories and EFA's to your diet

JKurz1 said:
5pm meal
Click to expand...

Steak would be good here. I have been getting the family sized Tyson Chicken Breast Strips... about 150g protein in one bag. Simple add cooking oil such as coconut or safflower oil for high Omega 6's and heat it up. 10 minutes and BAM! to quote Emeril.

JKurz1 said:
pre bed?
Click to expand...
Put the oats here are they are muscle sparing. Yogurt is as well. The yams would also be good here for slow digesting muscle sparing carbs. Whey/Casein shake or Milk protein Isolate as Javaguru does.

Also as Bruce suggested drink more water, I didn't notice entries for waater in your diet that you posted
 
I need Bruce's input too, but I really appreciate that Gus. I will stop the am cardio. I promise. Look, it's been knocked down from 35 mins 7x a week to 4 or 5 and 20.....niext step is 1 or 2 at 20 then its nill...cant stop cold turkey.

I don't know where you are seeing a shake?????? You guys keep saying tha but my only shake is pw....yes, I use a protein blend, but you cant beat the bi valaue esp. first thing in the am (which is the only time other than pre workout)....so there I confused. The pineapple is an excellent food. Not only for digestion, a great carb, but the gi is much much slower when the chicken and oats are added. I think of oats and yams as the two best carb sources out there...there I used them quite a bit, that wont change.'

I agree my fats needs increased...so I am going to reduce carbs after this enxt meal and just have protein, fats and veggie????????

How can you say eat oats at night when I havent trained? The other dude he is training he has eating a high gi food post workout even on his off days...thats something I disagree with. I sit all day and work and eat...then I am suppose to have oats before bed? Explain this......gus....thanks man.
 
JK....as far as the "Off Day" syndrome you have, you just need to get the right mindset for bulking. Your off-days should be thought of a "prep days" for the next heavy workout.


The idea for you isn't to only eat what you need, burn off the excess during training, and not gain an ounce.....you NEED the excess to gain muscular bodyweight.....there is nothing wrong with riding a desk all day, then not training that night because it is your off day, and eating just as much or more than you do on training days......you aren't trying to maintain weight and an off-day isn't a break from your plan. Caloric excess isn't about simply putting back what you burned, you need to eat more calories than you burn every single day.
 
JKurz1 said:
I need Bruce's input too, but I really appreciate that Gus. I will stop the am cardio. I promise. Look, it's been knocked down from 35 mins 7x a week to 4 or 5 and 20.....niext step is 1 or 2 at 20 then its nill...cant stop cold turkey.

I don't know where you are seeing a shake?????? You guys keep saying tha but my only shake is pw....yes, I use a protein blend, but you cant beat the bi valaue esp. first thing in the am (which is the only time other than pre workout)....so there I confused. The pineapple is an excellent food. Not only for digestion, a great carb, but the gi is much much slower when the chicken and oats are added. I think of oats and yams as the two best carb sources out there...there I used them quite a bit, that wont change.'

I agree my fats needs increased...so I am going to reduce carbs after this enxt meal and just have protein, fats and veggie????????

How can you say eat oats at night when I havent trained? The other dude he is training he has eating a high gi food post workout even on his off days...thats something I disagree with. I sit all day and work and eat...then I am suppose to have oats before bed? Explain this......gus....thanks man.
Click to expand...

Oats are slow digesting carbs. Night time is the optimal time for those types of carbs. They are supposed to make it through the night. The problem that I see here is that your nutrients are not making it to the 5:30am point in the morning where you wake up and do cardio. Then you force yourself to train on an empty stomach. This only last 20-30 minutes as you have stated. Cardio will use carbs/proteins for energy for the first 15 minutes (GLUCONEGENESIS) and after that it starts burning fat. But then you stop the cardio before it really has a chance to start burning fat... You see the problem you have created? YouR morning cardio is burning muscle not fat. This is why I think you need more slow digesting carbs and proteins at night time.
 
Its not burning muscle bro...its a slow slow walk......trust me....if anything, its taking away from sleep Ineed to recover and expending energy....oats in the pm on training days ok....and I do it......rest day....umm..

BTW - 150mg of eq this am, squirt of AIMF tomorrow will be another 125mg of cyp. 5th one....
 
JK.....today is the off day......list all the meals as you eat them to make sure you don't skimp out in fear of not training today.....also, and this may be asking a bit much a bit too soon, lol, but have you given thought to that cheat meal? An off day is a great day for a cheat meal.
 
After Tomorrow It Will Be 500mg Of Test Used And 550 Of Eq....keep Em Both The Same? Wondering If I Should Increase It When I Get To My Second Bottle - Prob. Only Used 2+cc Of Each Thus Far So No Effects Yet....really Need Topull This All Together And Quickly If I Dont Want To Waste It!!!

151 Today...back Up.....now I Just Need To Quit Quit Treading Water And Friggn Go........i Got 100lb To Gain......
 
See I get pm liks this from dudes who say they compete and have seen my diet which kills my motivation: Here it is:
""""hmm.. I need macros for each meal bro.. just from glancing at it you have way too many carbs to put on Lean muscle only, you will put on weight but it will be fat unless you do some serious cardio.. gimme the caloric breakdown of each meal.""""

be honest with me....I think I need MORE MORE carbs,, wtf????
 
JK.....you do need more carbs......people are gonna try to fuck with you.......you can't put on 'lean muscle only'. Anybody who tells you that has obviously only seen pics of contest-shape BB's or the local gym douche who hasn't gained an ounce of muscle in the past 15 years.....you don't have to get sloppy (and you won't, trust me), but you can't magically morph your body with just protein.

You were a lean 250 eating choco tacos at midnight back in the day.......but seriously, you know this stuff, just apply it to yourself.
 
JKurz1 said:
Its not burning muscle bro...its a slow slow walk......trust me....if anything, its taking away from sleep Ineed to recover and expending energy....oats in the pm on training days ok....and I do it......rest day....umm..

BTW - 150mg of eq this am, squirt of AIMF tomorrow will be another 125mg of cyp. 5th one....
Click to expand...


I would agree that a slow walk SHOULDN'T burn muscle , but I think desparate times call for desparate measures. I think you should see this differently now.

But yes rest and more calories. Continue the walk if you like , just get more calories...
 
BiggT said:
JK.....you do need more carbs......people are gonna try to fuck with you.......you can't put on 'lean muscle only'. Anybody who tells you that has obviously only seen pics of contest-shape BB's or the local gym douche who hasn't gained an ounce of muscle in the past 15 years.....you don't have to get sloppy (and you won't, trust me), but you can't magically morph your body with just protein.

You were a lean 250 eating choco tacos at midnight back in the day.......but seriously, you know this stuff, just apply it to yourself.
Click to expand...

Spoken like a true big man.... He needs more carbs but I think just eating blanket sugar is not the best way of doing it. But maybe in J's case he can get away with it as I think his metabolism is fast. Yes more fats and more carbs
 
That was 10 years ago big man...metab slowwwwwed way down, I was also quite chunky as a kid........and reading that dudes input on how he competes and he tried to do 400g of carbs and got nothing but fat, just got me..........helllllllllp
 
400 carbs is nothing crazy......it isn't a cutting or precontest diet......but you're not cutting......you're training hard, you're 6'2", AND you have incredibly low bodyfat....you're gonna need your carbs.......plus the test/eq is a nice little insurance policy to have.....you just need to plunge into the eating, once you gain some weight from your starting point, you'll take a huge sigh of relief and be able to chill out a little and eat and train without worry of getting fat.......you've just got to take the 1st step.
 
hey kurz,
as i review my past macro's from days and weeks prior, my carbs are up near 300-400 and my protein is right there too. i'm eating close to 4000 cals a day, AT YOUR RECOMMENDATION, and upped my carbs AT YOUR RECOMMENDATION. c'mon dawg, your intelligence has to overcome this fixation with too much of something. you need extremely more than the too much at this point anyway!!

been interesting reading your progression to say the least. you are going to make it I know you are.
 
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