Strength vs Bodybuliding - I "get it" a little better now!!!

Just some random observations...

Did the 5x5 for a year (small breaks in-between) and threw in one Westside about 1/2 way during the year. Had tremendous gains - met my goals and last week thought I'd change it up because I am really worn down and decided to go back to a little bodybuilding.

Since being getting back to the bodybuilding this past week it helped confirm some suspicions and brought to light some theories people write about but I did not have first-hand knowledge of:

1) Stength vs size - doing the 5x5 and Westside brought my strength way up and while my size did not increase dramatically people who see me moving some of the weight are somewhat surprised because they don't think I "look" like I can lift certain weights and are not shy about making such comments - (I am by no means moving anything close to some individuals on this site) - as with most things, it gets back to people's perceptions and what they "think" you should be capable of.

2) Soreness - when starting the 5x5 (DF) there was a period of about 3 weeks getting used to some muscle soreness but since getting back to bb routine this past week (all 3x8):
Mon chest - flat barbell, incline, flies, pushups
Tues back - pull-ups, deadlifts, db rows, cannot recall last
Wed bi's/tri's - who cares, it's all the same shit as usual (that's the 5x5 talking)
Thurs legs - squats, leg press, db lunges, calf’s
Fri supposed to be shoulders but missed it
the isolation soreness is much different and I definitely don't have that feeling of a "completed body workout" - basically it feels like I just worked the shit out of a certain part of my body and it filled with blood but I won't get much out of it aside from looks - very odd to go back to this.

3) Community - this week people have said things like:
"See, I told you the 5x5 didn't work and you'd be back to the basics"
When I try to explain I'm just temporarily changing it up they don't seem to pay attention. So basically, it's the feeling of being back in a herd where they're all following each other but have no idea where they're going.

In conclusion - I'm not writing any of this to piss anyone off or make someone think one way of doing things is better than someone else’s, this is simply some observations I've recently had and that I'm happy that I can now see the true differences in certain workouts.

good observations. do whats comfortable for you. hard work in any arena will pay off, just because the herd is doing it, doesn't mean they are all progressing (in any form)

Thanks for posting. Interesting observations.

When you followed the 5x5, were you getting a surplus of calories? I'm just asking because with the high frequency, progression on compound lifts and the way it is set up over all you should have been growing like a weed.

The best training regimins for long-term gains will increase your capacity at the big core lifts. That's all you can do in the gym. After that it's your work in the kitchen and just pure genetics. Certainly you can switch it up to some high volume bodypart routine and get a nice run once in a while but that doesn't provide long-term foundation work and that's the key to getting bigger and allowing the lower intensity/bodypart programs to even work decently.

So really - if you got stronger in the big lifts, 5x5 and Westside or whatever else you or someone else may use to achieve the goal worked - missing accomplished, hypertrophy is set up to go. After that its what you do in the kitchen and just where you happen to stand currently and genetically that will determine your proclivity for adding muscle. Suffice to say - if the scale ain't moving, you aren't eating enough and there is nothing any "program" can do for you outside of just plain get you stronger.

Good post 2.5 years, I'm at a similar point as you. I've been following the Matt Reynolds DFHT and a modified westside program for 1 year now. My strength has gone way up and I've met my goals from last year. My weight has not gone up but I've changed my body since last year. My back is wider and legs are thickers. I know I don't eat many excessive calories at his point. Mainly b/c I don't want to spend the money. I feel I spend enough money on food at this point. I usually try for about 100 calories in excess each day but I've tried the 3500 and 4000 calories diets for significant periods of time without putting on much weight at all. My body just seems to adapt to the caloric intake to maintain a certain weight. I'm fine with that b/c for my goals always centered around strength and performance in sports. Congrats on the gains and keep us updated as to how the bodybuilding routine works out.

People get too wedded to numbers - eat to move the scale. Consumption drives results. Don't get caught in consumption or numbers or quantification, eat until you get the results. Move the scale with sufficient quanity of quality foods. If it doesn't move every week or so, it ain't enough. Keep it simple if you want to gain.

steig said:

I know I don't eat many excessive calories at his point. Mainly b/c I don't want to spend the money. I feel I spend enough money on food at this point. <snip> I'm fine with that b/c for my goals always centered around strength and performance in sports.

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lol, this has to be the worst reason for not gaining weight I've ever heard. I guess it's not a problem since you understand why you're not gaining weight and aren't concerned about it since it's peripheral to your goals, but still...

Obviously, I'm just busting your balls, but how much would an extra bowl of oats and a couple tablespoons of olive oil per day cost?

Even the 'bodybuilding' split should work provided it's based on progression rather than getting a pump. When I burn out on an upper/lower split I switch to a push/pull/legs split for a couple of months and add in more assistance (ok, I'll fess up.. 'assistance' is a euphamism for iso work ). I look more 'jacked' from doing it but after a couple of months my inability to recover exceeds my work capacity and I need to switch back to just doing the basics.

5 x 5 should have given you enough volume to grow, and if the weights were going up then strength should have increased.

I agree.....the 'routine' is meaningless, so long as big lifts move up. There are 2 ways people grow on a 'bodybuilding/bodypart split'....one is that they push up the numbers on the compound lifts and make progress with them (either because they plan it or by accident) and the other is to take gallons of test/gh/insulin. The reason bodypart splits are looked down upon in the S and C community is because they tend to foster concepts like 'pumps', 'squeezes', 'burns', 'shock', and other nonsense that does not contribute to long-term progress. They are generally unorganized and just try to hit everything from all angles, work real hard, get sore, cross your fingers and hope for the best. Again, the ones that work on natural trainees are either organized with the concept of progression in mind or they foster progression just by accident (doing the right stuff and being totally oblivious to it)

If somebody has a 'one bodypart/day split routine' complete with "arm day", it can certainly be a good routine if it is centered around moving up the poundages in big lifts and making progress.

Also, just to back up what Madcow said, I can't say enough that growth depends on caloric intake. To the poster who mentioned numbers, I can't tell you enough that you don't ned to worry about them so much.....either the scale moves or it doesn't, don't define what you eat by target numbers.....know the basics of what food does, what is crap and what is not, and you really don't need to make yourself crazy counting cals and macros.

Tweakle is right too.....the extra stuff that flushes blood into the muscle will make you look swollen when you leave the gym, and certainly thats a cool thing, but if the big lifts aren't moving up, then you won't grow and whats the point of being swollen if you're a whopping 175lbs. Excess iso/extra stuff does ruin recovery and clutter a routine and stunt progress in the big lifts, so use it sparingly and at the right time and in the right place is what I say.

If you're a genetic freak in terms of recovery with both the willingness to take boatloads of drugs and ancillaries and the genetics to tolerate them without killing yourself, then go ahead and knock yourself out with excess iso stuff if it floats your boat, so long as you keep getting stronger on the stuff that matters......the thing is 99.9% of the population and 99.99999% of people on a discussion board are not in that category.