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Experienced bros and Vets read carefully I need help with some issues,kinda complicated.

G

gymratforlife

Banned
Ok here we go.I was on cycle for almost a year and then decided ok I wasnt really gaining enough to stay on anymore so I decided to come off(Big mistake let me tell ya)I went through a very extensive PCT and recuperated somewhat sexually and mentally was doing not so bad kept pretty much all the new muscle.Then after PCT like 6 months down the line I was having issues getting it up and stuff so I said fuck it Im going to go back on and went back on test and deca(another huge mistake)when I got back on it seemed like things were even worse so I droped the Deca and stayed on the test on 600 mg per week,now its been 2 months since Ive been on and sex drive is pretty much almost normal and sometimes still having issues getting erections to be rock hard,also my motivation in the gym has gone to shit and I am starting to see bodyfat get a bit higher probably due to the fact that I am not working out as hard in the gym and motivation is low.What do you guys suggest I should do to get back on track mentally in the gym and physically,I am not planing on coming off again at this poinbt but there is no use in staying on if Im going to feel like this.Help a brother out.
 
gymratforlife said:
Ok here we go.I was on cycle for almost a year and then decided ok I wasnt really gaining enough to stay on anymore so I decided to come off(Big mistake let me tell ya)I went through a very extensive PCT and recuperated somewhat sexually and mentally was doing not so bad kept pretty much all the new muscle.Then after PCT like 6 months down the line I was having issues getting it up and stuff so I said fuck it Im going to go back on and went back on test and deca(another huge mistake)when I got back on it seemed like things were even worse so I droped the Deca and stayed on the test on 600 mg per week,now its been 2 months since Ive been on and sex drive is pretty much almost normal and sometimes still having issues getting erections to be rock hard,also my motivation in the gym has gone to shit and I am starting to see bodyfat get a bit higher probably due to the fact that I am not working out as hard in the gym and motivation is low.What do you guys suggest I should do to get back on track mentally in the gym and physically,I am not planing on coming off again at this poinbt but there is no use in staying on if Im going to feel like this.Help a brother out.
Click to expand...

I feel you bro, I have been "on" 80% of the past year and a half, My longest break was in between this last cycle, shit went downhill emotionally, sexually and physically not to mention the drive to hit the gym hard was all but gone. All this while watching muscle fade only to be replaced with fat. It was tough but I hung in there and went through with a full PCT and let my body completly reset. I ran loads of HCG and clomid, it was complete hell. From what described it sounds like maybe you didn't ever fully recover. I'm no doc but that would be my guess. Your not going to like this but I would start ramping the test down, running HCG and droping the test in three weeks and running a heavy PCT. Then in a few moths see a doctor and have full blood tests done before you start back, thats not what you wanted to hear but...
 
I dont think its the trainig thats causing this I am pretty sure its something more than that because I am a bit down and I never feel like that.I am also not back to normal sexual functioning,I dont know if its cortisol build up in my system or estrogen from the long cycles and then all the clomid or what.
 
gymratforlife said:
Ok here we go.I was on cycle for almost a year and then decided ok I wasnt really gaining enough to stay on anymore so I decided to come off(Big mistake let me tell ya)I went through a very extensive PCT and recuperated somewhat sexually and mentally was doing not so bad kept pretty much all the new muscle.Then after PCT like 6 months down the line I was having issues getting it up and stuff so I said fuck it Im going to go back on and went back on test and deca(another huge mistake)when I got back on it seemed like things were even worse so I droped the Deca and stayed on the test on 600 mg per week,now its been 2 months since Ive been on and sex drive is pretty much almost normal and sometimes still having issues getting erections to be rock hard,also my motivation in the gym has gone to shit and I am starting to see bodyfat get a bit higher probably due to the fact that I am not working out as hard in the gym and motivation is low.What do you guys suggest I should do to get back on track mentally in the gym and physically,I am not planing on coming off again at this poinbt but there is no use in staying on if Im going to feel like this.Help a brother out.
Click to expand...

are you on just test?
no ancillaries (nolva, AI, etc)?
 
You could have progesterone and/or prolactin build-up from the nandrolone. These hormones can linger for a long time bro, and they cause fat deposit, lethargy, lowered libido, and mental fatigue. I would add bromo @2.5mg a day (take it at night), and proviron @ 50mg a day to keep the shbg and aromatase somewhat limited as well.
 
Re: Experienced bros and Vets read carefully I need help with some issues,kinda compl

krishna said:
You could have progesterone and/or prolactin build-up from the nandrolone. These hormones can linger for a long time bro, and they cause fat deposit, lethargy, lowered libido, and mental fatigue. I would add bromo @2.5mg a day (take it at night), and proviron @ 50mg a day to keep the shbg and aromatase somewhat limited as well.
Click to expand...
thanx bro sounds like a plan I am going to give that a try and see what happens.
 
if you dont have the motivation its time to quit lifting and sag your sorry ass in the chair and watch as your weight fades. and it will, you'll look back a year from now and be sittin at 170-180lbs wondering what the fuck? now shut up and get your ass motivated brotha, look, if you stay active, and i mean ACTIVE it is much more likley your test levels will raise, keep up the lifting, who cares if your weights drop, your still up in the game right? look how far you've come, you have the ability to keep what you have, keep eating, CLEAN the diet, keep lifting intensity and routines up, dont miss lift days!!!! you can do it bro, but if your second guessing yourself, its already too late, trust me bro, been here before, if you fuck it up now all is lost. Start swimming 2-4x a week with friends or somthing, its an excelent entire body workout best cardio there is. Excersize will boost your test and help your body, buy some books on nutrition, start hitting the nutrition fourm on this site etc. THE MOST IMPORTANT THINGS YOU CAN DO NOW ARE DROP THE JUICE, LEARN TO EAT HEALTHY AND KNOW YOUR FOOD GROUPS AND WHATS IN WHAT YOUR EATING, AND TRAIN TRAIN TRAIN, dont let me hear any more of this shit bro, if thats not motivation i dont know what is, you want me to call you a pussy? pisses me off, and motivates me at the same time when someone gets in my head, so fuck you you bitch and eat and lift! your body is fucked right now, and eating right and lifting/excersize are only good things you can do for your body now. do you want to look like that fat shit stuffing his face with twinkies? i dont think you do, thats what you're gonna do if you dont take care of buisness before its too late.
 
Re: Experienced bros and Vets read carefully I need help with some issues,kinda compl

gymratforlife said:
Yeah just test E at 600 mgs per week.
Click to expand...


you should at the very least be using a low dose AI, flooding your system with estrogen is not going to improve your libido.

a dopaminergic (selegiline or other) may be quite helpful as well
 
alittle young to be on year round, maybe thats the issue. and if the cycle isnt recovering your sex drive you are going to be in worse trouble when you really come off.
 
Re: Experienced bros and Vets read carefully I need help with some issues,kinda compl

tempest2003 said:
if you dont have the motivation its time to quit lifting and sag your sorry ass in the chair and watch as your weight fades. and it will, you'll look back a year from now and be sittin at 170-180lbs wondering what the fuck? now shut up and get your ass motivated brotha, look, if you stay active, and i mean ACTIVE it is much more likley your test levels will raise, keep up the lifting, who cares if your weights drop, your still up in the game right? look how far you've come, you have the ability to keep what you have, keep eating, CLEAN the diet, keep lifting intensity and routines up, dont miss lift days!!!! you can do it bro, but if your second guessing yourself, its already too late, trust me bro, been here before, if you fuck it up now all is lost. Start swimming 2-4x a week with friends or somthing, its an excelent entire body workout best cardio there is. Excersize will boost your test and help your body, buy some books on nutrition, start hitting the nutrition fourm on this site etc. THE MOST IMPORTANT THINGS YOU CAN DO NOW ARE DROP THE JUICE, LEARN TO EAT HEALTHY AND KNOW YOUR FOOD GROUPS AND WHATS IN WHAT YOUR EATING, AND TRAIN TRAIN TRAIN, dont let me hear any more of this shit bro, if thats not motivation i dont know what is, you want me to call you a pussy? pisses me off, and motivates me at the same time when someone gets in my head, so fuck you you bitch and eat and lift! your body is fucked right now, and eating right and lifting/excersize are only good things you can do for your body now. do you want to look like that fat shit stuffing his face with twinkies? i dont think you do, thats what you're gonna do if you dont take care of buisness before its too late.
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Bro thanx for the help but Im not that young I am 30 years old,the issue here is not a little bit of laziness or dragging ass in the gym.I have never experienced that shit when I am normal,my problem is usually leaving the gym not going to it.There something wrong with my body for me to be feeling the way I am and its all the way around not just in the gym and believe you me I am the most motivated possitive motherfucker in the world and this has never happened to me and for me to be swallowing my pride and come out and ask for help I know that my hormones must be out of wack and its something beyond my knowledge thats why I am asking these bros on here to help me out,as far as coming off I prefer not to at this point I am very close to my bodybuilding goals.I am so close I can taste it and I do not want to let this shit get in the way I know that it must be an issue from the Deca or something of that matter.Thanx all for you help much apreciated.
 
Re: Experienced bros and Vets read carefully I need help with some issues,kinda compl

macrophage69alpha said:
you should at the very least be using a low dose AI, flooding your system with estrogen is not going to improve your libido.

a dopaminergic (selegiline or other) may be quite helpful as well
Click to expand...
Please be a little more specific Macro bro.As far as AI what should I use and also what is a dopaminergic and can I find that over the counter?
 
Been where you are now. It is a bitch.


I would do PCT,


get that nandrolone out of your system, permanently



Take a month off from the gym, Maybe 6 weeks,



just do cardio, light weights crap like that.



Then plan A new cycle
 
Ok here is what I have planed for a plan of attack to get my head back straight.An AI I imagine Ldex?Not sure at what dose have to read on that,HCG 10000iu vial at 500mg per day on
monday and thursday till the vial is gone,600mg test E per week,deprenyl 1mg on mon,wedsday and friday,Bromo 2.5mg per day before bedtime.Can you guys tell me if I am missing anything from here.I plan on staying on the test till things get back to normal then add some EQ and winy and try to put on another few lbs of lbm from there.
 
Some people will try to say that bromo has too many sides, but it seriously keeps my libido going strong even on testless cycles. It also restores dopamine levels in the brain. I would do 1000iu's of hcg every 4 days instead of 500 every days. Don't forget the proviron bro.
 
I have posted many studies here that suggest AAS effect the HPTA much more than we originally believed.

My suggestion is 5000ius' every 10 days for a month of HCG, combined with arimidex, proviron 75mg's/ED, and clomid.

From what I read adding dostinex might help too.

I know the HCG amount sounds very high, but I have quoted numerous studies here (do a search) and the test subject with hypogonadism were given 6000ius' per WEEK for up to 6 months to try and restore testicular function.

Like many have stated here you need an anti-e. I too use AI and love the ease of use and the cost is great considering how long a 4oz spray can will last.

Oh and the nifty little plunger protector is a great idea. LOL

gymratforlife said:
Ok here we go.I was on cycle for almost a year and then decided ok I wasnt really gaining enough to stay on anymore so I decided to come off(Big mistake let me tell ya)I went through a very extensive PCT and recuperated somewhat sexually and mentally was doing not so bad kept pretty much all the new muscle.Then after PCT like 6 months down the line I was having issues getting it up and stuff so I said fuck it Im going to go back on and went back on test and deca(another huge mistake)when I got back on it seemed like things were even worse so I droped the Deca and stayed on the test on 600 mg per week,now its been 2 months since Ive been on and sex drive is pretty much almost normal and sometimes still having issues getting erections to be rock hard,also my motivation in the gym has gone to shit and I am starting to see bodyfat get a bit higher probably due to the fact that I am not working out as hard in the gym and motivation is low.What do you guys suggest I should do to get back on track mentally in the gym and physically,I am not planing on coming off again at this poinbt but there is no use in staying on if Im going to feel like this.Help a brother out.
Click to expand...
 
O.K...its very simple....get your test, free test and prolactin...Its as obvious as the pimple on my back...

Stop listening to people suggesting aifm and proviron and all that fucking bullshit.....

Get some blood work done...ASAP...I went thru the same thing your going threw...Get your sugar checked as well...

If you feel test is something you want to do then stick with an HRT dose..around 250 e/w....you shouldnt need any anti's.....

Not one of you so called experts have given the right advice here.....it could be mental burn out...it very well could physiological as well.....

Because after all the shit wears off he'll have the same problem..possibly worse....could be depression has set in also.....more shit different shit is still...SHIT ADVICE....
 
blood tests will come back all fucked up so unless you have a doctor whom you feel comfortable revealing EVERYTHING to, they are most likley going to recomend more blood tests which can be very costly, I would still get blood test done though if I were you, i agree, this is very important, but i feel everything i recomended is just as important. I think it is probably just mental, but also some physical burnout, your body is used to a high level of AAS, if you take that away your body is missing a lot, but you obviously cant stay on forever if you want to live to 40 or 50 and beyond. thats why i recomend doing everything that is naturaly good for your body first, ie: swimming (cardio) continue lifting (just to maintain) and eat a healthy, organic/high protein diet, make sure your getting your fruits/veggies as well that are essential to a healthy body, this will Help but not fix instantly bringing blood levels to correct values. just my .02, you cannot go wrong with what ive suggested, think about it, its natural, its what every human body needs to be healthy.
 
Not one of you so called experts have given the right advice here.....it could be mental burn out...it very well could physiological as well.....
Click to expand...

who here called himself an expert? people are giving their opinions on maybe a course of action that would fit the thread poster's goals. sort of like you except no one has been on a soap box preaching about how the other's before them are wrong.


Because after all the shit wears off he'll have the same problem..possibly worse....could be depression has set in also.....more shit different shit is still...SHIT ADVICE....
Click to expand...

i actually said that running more gear may not be the best idea as he will still have to come off eventually.


to the thread poster:
you eventually have to clean everything out to find the root issues. if your psyche is now off and you feel mentally that something is different, then something is. your hormones are all jacked up and need to be get put in order. cycling more will only make the problem worse. you have created an imbalance that is now showing itself in mental discomfort. get things straight before you keep cycling. i have had cycle induced depression from a poor pct and deca and it was unbelievable how long it took to mentally recover - the mental aspect also destroys libido for the same amount of time. i actually stayed away from gear for 2 full years to make sure i was both physically and mentally prepared to go again.
 
Big O said:
O.K...its very simple....get your test, free test and prolactin...Its as obvious as the pimple on my back...

Stop listening to people suggesting aifm and proviron and all that fucking bullshit.....

Get some blood work done...ASAP...I went thru the same thing your going threw...Get your sugar checked as well...

If you feel test is something you want to do then stick with an HRT dose..around 250 e/w....you shouldnt need any anti's.....

Not one of you so called experts have given the right advice here.....it could be mental burn out...it very well could physiological as well.....

Because after all the shit wears off he'll have the same problem..possibly worse....could be depression has set in also.....more shit different shit is still...SHIT ADVICE....
Click to expand...

I would totally run an AI and proviron. He hasn't been on HRT, he's been on 600mg a week. His estrogen levels are bound to be high and contributing to the problem. If he's on 600mg of test, what good is it going to do to get his test levels checked???? The doc is going to know he's on gear. You also recommended to get his prolactin checked. I recommended that he take bromo, which will take care of it. You're advice is the crappy advice bro.
 
Re: Experienced bros and Vets read carefully I need help with some issues,kinda compl

gymratforlife said:
Please be a little more specific Macro bro.As far as AI what should I use and also what is a dopaminergic and can I find that over the counter?
Click to expand...


AIFM (AF) or aromasin. almost never reccomend dex, reccomend letro when strongest E suppression needed..

dopaminergics OTC
tyramine (AF)
l-dopa extract (mucuna pruriens)


grey market
bromocriptine (strong)
cabergoline (expensive , effectiveness varies- though its libido enhancement is its primary sell point)
selegiline (MAO-i-b) keeps natural dopamine high and stops harmful dopamine metabolites from be synthesized (highly reccomend- especially for long term use)
 
consider coming down and using 300 mgs of test a week

600 is a bit high an there may be excess estrogen,

I say 300 a week cause the use of Ai's may also make your situtation worse at the 600 level

at 300 you will be on the high end of a cruising level yet not high enough to have estro issues ( genrally speaking)
 
actually thats completely innaccurate, aromatase issues with 300mg are going to be the same, if not worse because of T/E ratio issues, as with 600mg.
 
GymRat after you come down to 250 and you level out

consider added low adrogenic compounds to fill in the void

worked very well with "a friend" with simlar issues......

take care and pm me anytime
 
this is deffinently an unhealthy situation, i personaly would evaluate my health and then consider if this was the lifestyle i wanted to persue knowing i am cutting my life span with each day i continue
 
well rat you know what i'll say. proviron and a good diet with plenty of cals. proviron is the best when you feel like that
 
OK so I am leaning towards 50mg a day proviron,deprenyl(selegiline) 1mg mon,weds,fri,Tyramine have to research on,l-dopa extract have to research dose also,bromo 2.5mg per day at night,dont really need the cabergoline I have cialis.
 
1) Get under a M.D.'s care ASAP

2) Sit-out of the game as long as you have to and keep doing PCT to recover

3) If you are totally determined to start cycling again, do 8-12 weekers, moderate doses, and time-on < time-off
 
I know people are going to flame me to hell but I feel that PCT is not the answer here if that was the case then people wouldnt be able to continue to grow after year of non stop use.I think Macro and the other bros that sugested the Progesterone and Estrogen issue is the main problem have hit the nail on the head.
 
timtim said:
who here called himself an expert? people are giving their opinions on maybe a course of action that would fit the thread poster's goals. sort of like you except no one has been on a soap box preaching about how the other's before them are wrong.




i actually said that running more gear may not be the best idea as he will still have to come off eventually.


to the thread poster:
you eventually have to clean everything out to find the root issues. if your psyche is now off and you feel mentally that something is different, then something is. your hormones are all jacked up and need to be get put in order. cycling more will only make the problem worse. you have created an imbalance that is now showing itself in mental discomfort. get things straight before you keep cycling. i have had cycle induced depression from a poor pct and deca and it was unbelievable how long it took to mentally recover - the mental aspect also destroys libido for the same amount of time. i actually stayed away from gear for 2 full years to make sure i was both physically and mentally prepared to go again.
Click to expand...
^^ Yup
 
I've struggled with proper recovery and PCT after all of my cycles... it comes down to finding a PCT that works for YOU. Even some of these PCT's that are "stickied" here, IMHO, aren't that great (they didn't work for me anyway).

Ideally, my first suggestion would be to come totally clean, do another PCT (couldn't hurt) and take a substantial amount of time off....by going back on without having fully recovered, at your age, you run a great risk in permanently shutting down your natural test production, requiring HRT for life..... get your bloodwork done after some time off to guide you as to what you need to do. For PCT: HCG, Clomid, AIFM (I personally recommend 500iu HCG for 10-14 days).

If you're going to continue your test cycle, then absolutely get an AI (AIFM works very well)... proviron compliments test VERY well, making it an excellent addition here.... it acts as a moderate AI but more importantly, it decreases SHBG... if SHBG levels are high, no matter how much test you pump into your body, SHBG will always limit how much free test is available for your body to use...

Good luck bro!
 
krishna said:
I would totally run an AI and proviron. He hasn't been on HRT, he's been on 600mg a week. His estrogen levels are bound to be high and contributing to the problem. If he's on 600mg of test, what good is it going to do to get his test levels checked???? The doc is going to know he's on gear. You also recommended to get his prolactin checked. I recommended that he take bromo, which will take care of it. You're advice is the crappy advice bro.
Click to expand...


Word!!!!
 
Re: Experienced bros and Vets read carefully I need help with some issues,kinda compl

njmuscleguy said:
I've struggled with proper recovery and PCT after all of my cycles... it comes down to finding a PCT that works for YOU. Even some of these PCT's that are "stickied" here, IMHO, aren't that great (they didn't work for me anyway).

Ideally, my first suggestion would be to come totally clean, do another PCT (couldn't hurt) and take a substantial amount of time off....by going back on without having fully recovered, at your age, you run a great risk in permanently shutting down your natural test production, requiring HRT for life..... get your bloodwork done after some time off to guide you as to what you need to do. For PCT: HCG, Clomid, AIFM (I personally recommend 500iu HCG for 10-14 days).

If you're going to continue your test cycle, then absolutely get an AI (AIFM works very well)... proviron compliments test VERY well, making it an excellent addition here.... it acts as a moderate AI but more importantly, it decreases SHBG... if SHBG levels are high, no matter how much test you pump into your body, SHBG will always limit how much free test is available for your body to use...

Good luck bro!
Click to expand...
ok excuse my ignorance here but what do you guys mean by SHBG and AI I am not so hip to all of these abreviations.
 
AI is aromitase inhibitor(spelling?) - it keeps high levels of test from turning into estrogen- it is a class of drugs like adex, letro, aro, aifm...

AIFM is made by the AF store. It stands for aroitase inhibitor for men(i think)
 
Re: Experienced bros and Vets read carefully I need help with some issues,kinda compl

SwolK said:
AI is aromitase inhibitor(spelling?) - it keeps high levels of test from turning into estrogen- it is a class of drugs like adex, letro, aro, aifm...

AIFM is made by the AF store. It stands for aroitase inhibitor for men(i think)
Click to expand...
Excellent bro thanx for the help.Is the stuff from the AF store over the counter and cool to have shiped with no issues?
 
Re: Experienced bros and Vets read carefully I need help with some issues,kinda compl

timtim said:
i have had cycle induced depression from a poor pct and deca and it was unbelievable how long it took to mentally recover - the mental aspect also destroys libido for the same amount of time. i actually stayed away from gear for 2 full years to make sure i was both physically and mentally prepared to go again.
Click to expand...

PCT is not only drugs, but also the mental strength to deal with the loss of physical strength, endurance etc etc... I dont care HOW good your PCT is, you always lose somehting and for some people that can be hard to deal with.... so I totally agree and understand what you are saying TIMTIM.

Gymrat--- there are SO many issues in play here, as the physical issues begin to manifest, then the mental issues are magnified. Seems to me that some of the advice here regarding lowering dosages for a while, maybe with a goal of coming off completely at some point to clean out your body, is good advice....

But as i said, IMO, the mental aspect is a big part of it as you can see. Good luck! and remember that no one else notices what you are lifting or that you are benching 10lbs less than last week... no one gives a shit really.. do this for you, and to get yourself healthy.
 
Re: Experienced bros and Vets read carefully I need help with some issues,kinda compl

gymratforlife said:
Excellent bro thanx for the help.Is the stuff from the AF store over the counter and cool to have shiped with no issues?
Click to expand...
yep
 
Re: Experienced bros and Vets read carefully I need help with some issues,kinda compl

get456 said:
PCT is not only drugs, but also the mental strength to deal with the loss of physical strength, endurance etc etc... I dont care HOW good your PCT is, you always lose somehting and for some people that can be hard to deal with.... so I totally agree and understand what you are saying TIMTIM.

Gymrat--- there are SO many issues in play here, as the physical issues begin to manifest, then the mental issues are magnified. Seems to me that some of the advice here regarding lowering dosages for a while, maybe with a goal of coming off completely at some point to clean out your body, is good advice....

But as i said, IMO, the mental aspect is a big part of it as you can see. Good luck! and remember that no one else notices what you are lifting or that you are benching 10lbs less than last week... no one gives a shit really.. do this for you, and to get yourself healthy.
Click to expand...
Totally true bro,but the thing is that right now I am so close to attaining my ideal physique that it would crush me to have to PCT and lose a bunch of size at this point.I am pretty sure that I need to work on the estrogen and progesterone issue and I will be fine,I think its worth at least to give it a shot to see if things level out.If it dosent work then I know I have done everything possible and I will be ready to do an agressive all out PCT and go completely clean.
 
I see that no one answered your ? on shbg. stands for Sex Hormone Binding Globin. Basically it takes up about 50% of your total test. Proviron reduces shbg allowing more test to be free test. this should solve some issues for you. Personally, I would never run test without it. 50mg ed throughout cycle bro. you won't regret it.
 
brewers said:
I see that no one answered your ? on shbg. stands for Sex Hormone Binding Globin. Basically it takes up about 50% of your total test. Proviron reduces shbg allowing more test to be free test. this should solve some issues for you. Personally, I would never run test without it. 50mg ed throughout cycle bro. you won't regret it.
Click to expand...

brewers beat me to it.... and SHBG is genetic, everyone is affected differently.... I personally take an OTC supplement all year around to keep SHBG in check but taking proviron with test is an excellent idea - they are very synergistic in that test increases androgen receptors and proviron binds strongly to AR's... when proviron binds to AR's, it's believed it imparts it's "fat-burning" properties... proviron is also a great idea with any deca or tren cycle since alot of people have serious libido issues with these progestins... the other nice thing is that it's believed now that Proviron doesn't adversely affect HPTA (doesn't suppress it), therefore it is sometimes recommended during PCT or for bridging
 
Re: Experienced bros and Vets read carefully I need help with some issues,kinda compl

njmuscleguy said:
brewers beat me to it.... and SHBG is genetic, everyone is affected differently.... I personally take an OTC supplement all year around to keep SHBG in check but taking proviron with test is an excellent idea - they are very synergistic in that test increases androgen receptors and proviron binds strongly to AR's... when proviron binds to AR's, it's believed it imparts it's "fat-burning" properties... proviron is also a great idea with any deca or tren cycle since alot of people have serious libido issues with these progestins... the other nice thing is that it's believed now that Proviron doesn't adversely affect HPTA (doesn't suppress it), therefore it is sometimes recommended during PCT or for bridging
Click to expand...

What is the OTC supplement that you take all year round to keep your SHBG in check?
 
Re: Experienced bros and Vets read carefully I need help with some issues,kinda compl

The lack of motivation for everything sounds to me like depression, it always happens to me when i go out of cycle, the same symptoms.

gymratforlife said:
Totally true bro,but the thing is that right now I am so close to attaining my ideal physique that it would crush me to have to PCT and lose a bunch of size at this point.I am pretty sure that I need to work on the estrogen and progesterone issue and I will be fine,I think its worth at least to give it a shot to see if things level out.If it dosent work then I know I have done everything possible and I will be ready to do an agressive all out PCT and go completely clean.
Click to expand...
 
i didn't take the time to read the whole thread but generally speakin you are flying blind. you did the right thing asking for a little help though. years ago when this happened to me there was no internet and I just had to grind it out, took a long time, much needless suffering that way.

ok now, you almost certainly need an anti-aromatase to reduce estrogen levels, and help with prolactin also. what i would do is drop the dosage of T in half. then i would add proviron at 50mg/d. see if that gets you feeling better. add ldex at a low dose if you need to. this will get your system androgen dominant again, and you will start to feel better. i would stick with that for a while and give more time before you come off and run another PCT. you need more distance from the deca cycle and time for your system to get back on drive with the androgens. wait until you have been feeling really good again for awhile, then you might want to try another PCT. its really not hard to recover from being on for a long time, as long as there were no progestins involved, they are the hormones that have longer lasting suppressive effects, and make things difficult for recovery.
 
Re: Experienced bros and Vets read carefully I need help with some issues,kinda compl

Triple J said:
i didn't take the time to read the whole thread but generally speakin you are flying blind. you did the right thing asking for a little help though. years ago when this happened to me there was no internet and I just had to grind it out, took a long time, much needless suffering that way.

ok now, you almost certainly need an anti-aromatase to reduce estrogen levels, and help with prolactin also. what i would do is drop the dosage of T in half. then i would add proviron at 50mg/d. see if that gets you feeling better. add ldex at a low dose if you need to. this will get your system androgen dominant again, and you will start to feel better. i would stick with that for a while and give more time before you come off and run another PCT. you need more distance from the deca cycle and time for your system to get back on drive with the androgens. wait until you have been feeling really good again for awhile, then you might want to try another PCT. its really not hard to recover from being on for a long time, as long as there were no progestins involved, they are the hormones that have longer lasting suppressive effects, and make things difficult for recovery.
Click to expand...
This actually what I was thinking about doing after some carefull consideration.Drop the test to 200mg per week and get on proviron at 50mg per day and run that for 2 months or maybe 3 and run a vial of hcg in there and then drop the test 2 weeks from PCT and run the proviron till PCT and do another agressive PCT and go clean from there for a while Im getting myself mentally ready to come off.
 
Re: Experienced bros and Vets read carefully I need help with some issues,kinda compl

vitamix said:
What is the OTC supplement that you take all year round to keep your SHBG in check?
Click to expand...

It's called Unleashed, from Protein Factory... it's the only otc supplement in that category (tribulus, maca, eurycoma, etc.) that I've ever felt worked for me... it contains:

Avena Sativa (with at least 7% Avenacosides A&B) 500 mgs
Muara Puama: 12:1 active extract 500mgs
Trimethyglycine 1000mgs
Xanthoparmilia Scabrosa: 50mgs
Urtica dioica: 100 mgs
Ashwagandha: Standardized to 1.5%Withanolides 500 mgs


It's not as potent as proviron, but it does the job nicely when I'm "off"
 
Re: Experienced bros and Vets read carefully I need help with some issues,kinda compl

gymratforlife said:
This actually what I was thinking about doing after some carefull consideration.Drop the test to 200mg per week and get on proviron at 50mg per day and run that for 2 months or maybe 3 and run a vial of hcg in there and then drop the test 2 weeks from PCT and run the proviron till PCT and do another agressive PCT and go clean from there for a while Im getting myself mentally ready to come off.
Click to expand...

don't worry about if it takes two months, or six, the main thing is to get yourself feeling better. i would skip the hcg it tends to spike estrogen levels, although for PCT prep its ok.
 
Re: Experienced bros and Vets read carefully I need help with some issues,kinda compl

Triple J said:
don't worry about if it takes two months, or six, the main thing is to get yourself feeling better. i would skip the hcg it tends to spike estrogen levels, although for PCT prep its ok.
Click to expand...
Thanx for all your help bro I think I have a pretty solid game plan.Im just going to concentrate on getting my levels back to semi normal before PCT and shredding up while doing it with cardio and good diet and I should be feeling like a million bucks in no time.Im feeling better already lol.
 
Re: Experienced bros and Vets read carefully I need help with some issues,kinda compl

njmuscleguy said:
It's called Unleashed, from Protein Factory... it's the only otc supplement in that category (tribulus, maca, eurycoma, etc.) that I've ever felt worked for me... it contains:

Avena Sativa (with at least 7% Avenacosides A&B) 500 mgs
Muara Puama: 12:1 active extract 500mgs
Trimethyglycine 1000mgs
Xanthoparmilia Scabrosa: 50mgs
Urtica dioica: 100 mgs
Ashwagandha: Standardized to 1.5%Withanolides 500 mgs


It's not as potent as proviron, but it does the job nicely when I'm "off"
Click to expand...
Is this a prohormone, or more of a natural testosterone booster?
 
Re: Experienced bros and Vets read carefully I need help with some issues,kinda compl

mrplunkey said:
Is this a prohormone, or more of a natural testosterone booster?
Click to expand...

natural testosterone booster (it's believed that avena sativa is more effective than tribulus)....urtica dioica also does the same (binds to SHBG) and it's good for the prostate
 
wow i feal the same way as u bro. It has to be the nandrolene in the deca. In fact this thread just solved my problem. I am going to be getting some bromo to help this and i got a question.

Could i run anavar and bromo at the same time? And get full effects from each?
 
Re: Experienced bros and Vets read carefully I need help with some issues,kinda compl

bmcadoo44 said:
wow i feal the same way as u bro. It has to be the nandrolene in the deca. In fact this thread just solved my problem. I am going to be getting some bromo to help this and i got a question.

Could i run anavar and bromo at the same time? And get full effects from each?
Click to expand...
lol were the hell do I find Bromo seems the people that carry ancilliaries dont have any.
 
Re: Experienced bros and Vets read carefully I need help with some issues,kinda compl

gjohnson5 said:
CHeck the advice from Ulter in my signature...
Click to expand...


How long do you do Ulters recipe and when do you start two weeks after your last shot? Day of ?

Where the heck do you get proviron?
 
Re: Experienced bros and Vets read carefully I need help with some issues,kinda compl

gymratforlife said:
lol were the hell do I find Bromo seems the people that carry ancilliaries dont have any.
Click to expand...
Try Dostinex. Formestane is something that you might want to look into as well. They used to sell it as a prohormone. Good luck.
 
i wouldn't mess with bromo just boost your vitamin b6 and get off the nandrolones
if you really need something specific for prolactin selegiline or cabaser would be the way to go
keep in mind proviron and/or an anti-aromatase will help some with the prolactin also
 
It sounds to me, from your symptoms and your writing, that you could be experiencing a depressive episode. This could be caused by various factors including your use of AAS. I'm by no means a doctor but I have studied depression extensively both in my academic career and personally.

Welbutrin is a great drug with very few sides. One of the sides, however, is often an increase in libido and performance. As a matter of fact, it's often perscribed concurrently along with an SSRI (e.g., Zoloft or Paxil) to combat the sexual sides which often accompany that class of drugs. I emphasize Welbutrin is not an SSRI. If I were you I would see a psychiatrist immediately and get an evaluation. Fuck the stigma and give a shit about yourself. A psychiatrist is not going to tell LEO that you're a juicer but s/he will, however, treat your depression.

I've dealt with depression and overcame it -- it took me literally over a year to face it and that was a wasted chunk of my youth.

Good luck.
 
amazing enough I have my mojo back with out doing anything really just stayed on 300mg of test and while I was gathering the rest of the ingredients BAM gym intensity hornyy as a dog and everything back to normal.Could it have been that the use of the Deca lingered in my system from being on it for so long?Oh I added 50mg winy per day too but not sure if that makes too big a difference.
 
Man I think maybe you should lower your test injec to maybe 200 to 300mgs per week. That should keep you close to normal. Then take a couple of weeks off from the gym. Keep your diet right though. I think sometimes a little time off is the best way to stay motivated year round.
 
Re: Experienced bros and Vets read carefully I need help with some issues,kinda compl

EX1855 said:
Man I think maybe you should lower your test injec to maybe 200 to 300mgs per week. That should keep you close to normal. Then take a couple of weeks off from the gym. Keep your diet right though. I think sometimes a little time off is the best way to stay motivated year round.
Click to expand...
Yeah thats what I actually did and I am feeling pretty much back to my old self again.Still want to give the proviron a whirl for sure though.
 
Re: Experienced bros and Vets read carefully I need help with some issues,kinda compl

gymratforlife said:
Yeah thats what I actually did and I am feeling pretty much back to my old self again.Still want to give the proviron a whirl for sure though.
Click to expand...
mine is on the way....
i will keep you updated
 
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