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Absolute best brand of Tribulus to buy for PCT?
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testbaby25
New member
I forget what it is exactly, but RADAR usualy chimes in with one that I have used, and will continue to use
BrutalBurt
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Tribestan, Tribex ( Biotest ),,,
macrophage69alpha
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J Ethnopharmacol. 2005 Oct 3;101(1-3):319-23. Related Articles, Links
The aphrodisiac herb Tribulus terrestris does not influence the androgen production in young men.
Neychev VK, Mitev VI.
Department of Chemistry and Biochemistry, Medical University, 2 Zdrave str., Sofia-1431, Bulgaria. [email protected]
OBJECTIVE: The aim of the current study is to investigate the influence of Tribulus terrestris extract on androgen metabolism in young males. DESIGN AND METHODS: Twenty-one healthy young 20-36 years old men with body weight ranging from 60 to 125 kg were randomly separated into three groups-two experimental (each n=7) and a control (placebo) one (n=7). The experimental groups were named TT1 and TT2 and the subjects were assigned to consume 20 and 10 mg/kg body weight per day of Tribulus terrestris extract, respectively, separated into three daily intakes for 4 weeks. Testosterone, androstenedione and luteinizing hormone levels in the serum were measured 24 h before supplementation (clear probe), and at 24, 72, 240, 408 and 576 h from the beginning of the supplementation. RESULTS: There was no significant difference between Tribulus terrestris supplemented groups and controls in the serum testosterone (TT1 (mean+/-S.D.: 15.75+/-1.75 nmol/l); TT2 (mean+/-S.D.: 16.32+/-1.57 nmol/l); controls (mean+/-S.D.: 17.74+/-1.09 nmol/l) (p>0.05)), androstenedione (TT1 (mean+/-S.D.: 1.927+/-0.126 ng/ml); TT2 (mean+/-S.D.: 2.026+/-0.256 ng/ml); controls (mean+/-S.D.: 1.952+/-0.236 ng/ml) (p>0.05)) or luteinizing hormone (TT1 (mean+/-S.D.: 4.662+/-0.274U/l); TT2 (mean+/-S.D.: 4.103+/-0.869U/l); controls (mean+/-S.D.: 4.170+/-0.406U/l) (p>0.05)) levels. All results were within the normal range. The findings in the current study anticipate that Tribulus terrestris steroid saponins possess neither direct nor indirect androgen-increasing properties. The study will be extended in the clarifying the probable mode of action of Tribulus terrestris steroid saponins.
Pharmazie. 2004 Apr;59(4):294-6. Related Articles, Links
Steroidal saponins from Dioscorea panthaica and their cytotoxic activity.
Dong M, Feng XZ, Wang BX, Ikejima T, Wu LJ.
Department of Cell Biology, Neurobiology, and Anatomy, University of Cincinnati, Ohio, USA.
A new steroidal saponin, dioscoreside E (1), and a known compound, protodioscin (2), were isolated from an ethanol extract of the rhizomes of Dioscorea panthaica. The structure of 1 was established as 3-O-[bis-alpha-L-rhamnopyranosyl-(1 --> 2 and 1 --> 4)-beta-D-glucopyranosyl]-26-O-beta-D-glucopyranosyl-20(R)-methoxy-25(R)-furosta-5,22(23)-diene-3beta,26-diol, on the basis of spectral and chemical evidence. Compounds 1 and 2 showed cytotoxic activity against a panel of tumor cell lines
its quite likely that any aphodesiac properties of tribulus are due to phytoestrogenic chemicals.
The aphrodisiac herb Tribulus terrestris does not influence the androgen production in young men.
Neychev VK, Mitev VI.
Department of Chemistry and Biochemistry, Medical University, 2 Zdrave str., Sofia-1431, Bulgaria. [email protected]
OBJECTIVE: The aim of the current study is to investigate the influence of Tribulus terrestris extract on androgen metabolism in young males. DESIGN AND METHODS: Twenty-one healthy young 20-36 years old men with body weight ranging from 60 to 125 kg were randomly separated into three groups-two experimental (each n=7) and a control (placebo) one (n=7). The experimental groups were named TT1 and TT2 and the subjects were assigned to consume 20 and 10 mg/kg body weight per day of Tribulus terrestris extract, respectively, separated into three daily intakes for 4 weeks. Testosterone, androstenedione and luteinizing hormone levels in the serum were measured 24 h before supplementation (clear probe), and at 24, 72, 240, 408 and 576 h from the beginning of the supplementation. RESULTS: There was no significant difference between Tribulus terrestris supplemented groups and controls in the serum testosterone (TT1 (mean+/-S.D.: 15.75+/-1.75 nmol/l); TT2 (mean+/-S.D.: 16.32+/-1.57 nmol/l); controls (mean+/-S.D.: 17.74+/-1.09 nmol/l) (p>0.05)), androstenedione (TT1 (mean+/-S.D.: 1.927+/-0.126 ng/ml); TT2 (mean+/-S.D.: 2.026+/-0.256 ng/ml); controls (mean+/-S.D.: 1.952+/-0.236 ng/ml) (p>0.05)) or luteinizing hormone (TT1 (mean+/-S.D.: 4.662+/-0.274U/l); TT2 (mean+/-S.D.: 4.103+/-0.869U/l); controls (mean+/-S.D.: 4.170+/-0.406U/l) (p>0.05)) levels. All results were within the normal range. The findings in the current study anticipate that Tribulus terrestris steroid saponins possess neither direct nor indirect androgen-increasing properties. The study will be extended in the clarifying the probable mode of action of Tribulus terrestris steroid saponins.
Pharmazie. 2004 Apr;59(4):294-6. Related Articles, Links
Steroidal saponins from Dioscorea panthaica and their cytotoxic activity.
Dong M, Feng XZ, Wang BX, Ikejima T, Wu LJ.
Department of Cell Biology, Neurobiology, and Anatomy, University of Cincinnati, Ohio, USA.
A new steroidal saponin, dioscoreside E (1), and a known compound, protodioscin (2), were isolated from an ethanol extract of the rhizomes of Dioscorea panthaica. The structure of 1 was established as 3-O-[bis-alpha-L-rhamnopyranosyl-(1 --> 2 and 1 --> 4)-beta-D-glucopyranosyl]-26-O-beta-D-glucopyranosyl-20(R)-methoxy-25(R)-furosta-5,22(23)-diene-3beta,26-diol, on the basis of spectral and chemical evidence. Compounds 1 and 2 showed cytotoxic activity against a panel of tumor cell lines
its quite likely that any aphodesiac properties of tribulus are due to phytoestrogenic chemicals.
turbogreek
Registered User
i use ultimate nutrition's bulgarian tribulus along with their ZMA. BB.com has 'em.
when i did my research on this topic a few months ago...the top 2 i found being used and prefered were tribex as stated by brutalburt and the bularian tribulus which i use.
when i did my research on this topic a few months ago...the top 2 i found being used and prefered were tribex as stated by brutalburt and the bularian tribulus which i use.
macrophage69alpha
New member
tribulus may have NO effects(direct arterial smooth muscle relaxation possibly involving nitric oxide release and membrane hyperpolarization) as well as estrogenic effects.
MASSIVEMONSTER
New member
i used trib only at 1000mg a day for my pct with nolva and kept a lot of gains. it is good stuff, my sex drive dropped only a bit. what dose is usually taken, i may tru 2000mg next time!
macrophage69alpha
New member
1. tribulus does not stimulate LH
2. tribulus does not increase testosterone
3. tribulus may have Nitric Oxide related impact
4. tribulus saponins are likely estrogenic
5. libido effects from tribulus are not due to androgenic activity
2. tribulus does not increase testosterone
3. tribulus may have Nitric Oxide related impact
4. tribulus saponins are likely estrogenic
5. libido effects from tribulus are not due to androgenic activity
turbogreek
Registered User
macrophage69alpha said:
thanks mac
K
kjm94
Guest
yeh i have heard from many-a-sources that tribulus is bullllll%*$%....does nothing for you
sounds like every MuscleTech supplement out there haha
sounds like every MuscleTech supplement out there haha
ScienceGeek
New member
Many swear by Tribestan. I use it with maca for PCT, but it's with short cycles. That said, I sprouted hair on my arms and shoulders the first time I took it (I was totally clean) so it stimulates something (FSH?).
macrophage69alpha
New member
there have been "batches" of tribulus that were amazingly effective. had some like this in 97'. it was a black dark oil powder, it was almost certainly "spiked". with what???
this is why everyone used to swear by hotstuff, the spiked it with d-bol.
this is why everyone used to swear by hotstuff, the spiked it with d-bol.
the girl was glad anyway.macrophage69alpha
New member
note- did not say that libido effects were placebo, those effects have been noted in animals and humans. Though there is the concern that those effects are mediated by ER receptor activation.
karachi183
New member
^^^ for more respones and or opinions
macrophage69alpha
New member
Res Vet Sci. 1987 Nov;43(3):347-50. Related Articles, Links
A novel nigrostriatal dopaminergic disorder in sheep affected by Tribulus terrestris staggers.
Bourke CA.
New South Wales Department of Agriculture, Agricultural Research and Veterinary Centre, Australia.
An investigation was carried out into the pathogenesis of a unique locomotory disorder of sheep. Thirty sheep which had exhibited clinical signs for more than 15 months were examined for the presence of muscle atrophy, limb paresis, and spontaneous rotational behaviour. A single large dose of levodopa was administered to 12 normal and 12 affected sheep, and the drug-related effects of sedation and excitation were monitored continuously for three hours. The striatum was removed from eight normal and eight affected sheep and assayed for dopamine (DA) and 3,4-dihydroxyphenylacetic acid (DOPAC). The findings of asymmetrical atrophy of pelvic limb extensor muscles, asymmetrical paresis of the limbs, a left:right dominance ratio of 50:50, spontaneous rotational behaviour, decreased response to levodopa loading, and decreased levels of DA (19 per cent reduction) and DOPAC (30 per cent reduction) in the striatum of affected sheep, were interpreted as indicative of a primary nigrostriatal dopaminergic disorder. It is suggested that a striatal presynaptic receptor malfunction has occurred.
A novel nigrostriatal dopaminergic disorder in sheep affected by Tribulus terrestris staggers.
Bourke CA.
New South Wales Department of Agriculture, Agricultural Research and Veterinary Centre, Australia.
An investigation was carried out into the pathogenesis of a unique locomotory disorder of sheep. Thirty sheep which had exhibited clinical signs for more than 15 months were examined for the presence of muscle atrophy, limb paresis, and spontaneous rotational behaviour. A single large dose of levodopa was administered to 12 normal and 12 affected sheep, and the drug-related effects of sedation and excitation were monitored continuously for three hours. The striatum was removed from eight normal and eight affected sheep and assayed for dopamine (DA) and 3,4-dihydroxyphenylacetic acid (DOPAC). The findings of asymmetrical atrophy of pelvic limb extensor muscles, asymmetrical paresis of the limbs, a left:right dominance ratio of 50:50, spontaneous rotational behaviour, decreased response to levodopa loading, and decreased levels of DA (19 per cent reduction) and DOPAC (30 per cent reduction) in the striatum of affected sheep, were interpreted as indicative of a primary nigrostriatal dopaminergic disorder. It is suggested that a striatal presynaptic receptor malfunction has occurred.
macrophage69alpha
New member
tin2 said:
what exactly does that mean?
are you saying that it works for you contrary to the clinical evidence raising your testosterone levels and leutenizing hormone or that it works for you as a sex drive stimulant and perhaps erectile support (which might also increase muscle pump- same NO mechanism)?
karachi183
New member
^^^^^^
justinjones1963
New member
I'd love to see someone on the baord who is not on cycle to get test blood work done, then do a trib only cycle, then get blood work done directly there after. That would offer conclusive proof - and from the studies I have read this has been done with a zero increase in natural test.
macrophage69alpha
New member
macrophage69alpha
New member
RADAR said:
studies actually show that. just not the other stuff.
it increases sex drive(ER active???/not confirmed) and erections(NO)
zips92
New member
macrophage69alpha said:
K to you for "Hotstuff", haven't heard that in awhile. Do you know if it is still spiked or if it is still marketed?
I tell you what, regardless of any myths, marketing blitz or studies, Hotstuff worked for me back in the day, that was no placebo. I loved that stuff, except I hated the banana flavor, I think that's all they made.........
turbogreek
Registered User
RADAR said:
hahaaaaaaaa...werd...me too!
macrophage69alpha
New member
tin2 said:
its not hate- just dont like seeing it marketed and promoted for properties that it does not have or at least that science says it does not have. Now science does say that it has some effects that could easily make one beleive that the other stuff was true (but those effects are independent of the claimed LH and testosterone boosting claims).
sigmund
New member
sigmund
New member
...a few studies on effects of tongkat ali:
Arch Pharm Res. 2001 Oct;24(5):437-40. Related Articles, Links
Effects of Eurycoma longifolia jack on laevator ani muscle in both uncastrated and testosterone-stimulated castrated intact male rats.
Ang HH, Cheang HS.
School of Pharmaceutical Sciences, University Science Malaysia, Minden, 11800, Penang, Malaysia. [email protected]
It has been reported that Eurycoma longifolia Jack commonly known as Tongkat Ali has gained notoreity as a symbol of man's ego and strength by the Malaysian men because it increases male virility and sexual prowess during sexual activities. As such, the effects of 200, 400 and 800 mg/kg of butanol, methanol, water and chloroform fractions of E. longifolia Jack were studied on the laevator ani muscle in both uncastrated and testosterone-stimulated castrated intact male rats after dosing them for 12 consecutive weeks. Results showed that 800 mg/kg of butanol, methanol, water and chloroform fractions of E. longifolia Jack significantly increased (p<0.05) the leavator ani muscle to 58.56+/-1.22, 58.23+/-0.31, 60.21 +/-0.86 and 62.35 +/-0.98 mg/100 g body weight, respectively, when compared with the control (untreated) in the uncastrated intact male rats and 49.23+/-0.82, 52.23+/-0.36, 50.21+/-0.66 and 52.35+/-0.58 mg/100 g body weight, respectively, when compared to control (untreated) in the testosterone-stimulated castrated intact male rats. Hence, the pro-androgenic effect as shown by this study further supported the traditional use of this plant as an aphrodisiac.
PMID: 11693547 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
----
J Basic Clin Physiol Pharmacol. 2003;14(3):301-8. Related Articles, Links
Eurycoma longifolia Jack enhances sexual motivation in middle-aged male mice.
Ang HH, Lee KL, Kiyoshi M.
School of Pharmaceutical Sciences, University Science Malaysia, Minden, Penang, Malaysia. [email protected]
Eurycoma longifolia Jack was investigated for sexual motivation activity in adult, middle-aged male mice and in retired breeders, using the modified open field and the modified runway choice methods. Each mouse received 500 mg/kg of one of 4 fractions of E. longifolia Jack, viz. chloroform, methanol, butanol, and water, whereas the mice in the control and yohimbine groups received 3 ml/kg of normal saline and 30 mg/kg of yohimbine daily respectively for 10 d. The results show a transient increase in the percentage of male mice responding to the right choice after chronic consumption of the fractions with 50 percent of the adult middle-aged male mice treated with E. longifolia Jack and yohimbine scoring the right choice after 8 and 5 days post-treatment respectively. In conclusion, this study has shown that E. longifolia Jack continues to enhance sexual motivation in adult, middle-aged male mice and in retired breeders.
PMID: 14964739 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
----
Ang HH, Ngai TH, Tan TH.
Effects of Eurycoma longifolia Jack on sexual qualities in middle aged male rats.
School of Pharmaceutical Sciences, University Science Malaysia, Minden, Penang, Malaysia. [email protected]
The effects of Eurycoma longifolia Jack were studied on the sexual qualities of middle aged male rats after dosing them with 0.5 g/kg of various fractions of E. longifolia whilst the control group received 3 ml/kg of normal saline daily for 12 weeks. Results showed than E. longifolia Jack enhanced the sexual qualities of the middle aged male rats by decreasing their hesitation time as compared to controls with various fractions of E. longifolia Jack produced 865-916 (91-96), 860-914 (92-98), 850-904 (93-99), 854-890 (95-99), 844-880 (94-98), 840-875 (94-98), 830-870 (94-98), 825-860 (94-98), 820-850 (96-99), 800-840 (93-98), 750-795 (94-99) and 650-754 sec (82-95%) in contrast to controls which produced 950 (100), 934 (100), 910 (100), 900 (100), 895 (100), 890 (100), 885 (100), 880 (100), 855 (100), 860 (100), 800 (100) and 790 sec (100%) throughout the investigation period. Besides these, there was a transient increase in the % of the male rats responding to the right choice after chronic administration of 0.5 g/kg E. longifolia Jack, with more than 50% of the male rats scored right choice after 2 weeks post-treatment and the effect was more prominent at the dose of the observation period. However, there was no sexual enhancement of the middle aged male rats which consumed normal saline since only 45-55% of the male rats responded to right choice throughout the investigation period. Hence, this study shows that E. longifolia Jack enhanced the sexual qualities of the middle aged male rats, further supports the folkuse of E. longifolia Jack as an aphrodisiac.
PMID: 13678248 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
----
Effects of Eurycoma longifolia Jack (Tongkat Ali) on the initiation of sexual performance of inexperienced castrated male rats.
Ang HH, Cheang HS, Yusof AP.
School of Pharmaceutical Sciences, University Science Malaysia, Penang, Malaysia.
We studied the effects of Eurycoma longifolia Jack, commonly known as Tongkat Ali in Malaysia, on the initiation of sexual performance and the weights of sexual accessories in inexperienced castrated male rats. The doses of 200, 400 and 800 mg/kg body weight, which were extracted from E. longifolia Jack, were orally administered to the rats twice daily for 10 days prior to the tests and continued throughout the test period. Testosterone was used as a positive control after injecting 15 mg/kg daily subcutaneously for 32 days. Results showed that E. longifolia Jack produced a dose-dependent increase in sexual performance of the treated animals, but the E. longifolia Jack groups showed lower sexual performance in mounting, intromission and ejaculation than the testosterone group. Further results also showed that E. longifolia Jack promoted the growth of both ventral prostate and seminal vesicles as compared with the control, but the growth of sexual accessories at 800 mg/kg of butanol, methanol, water and chloroform fractions of E. longifolia Jack was less than that of testosterone treated group. The present study therefore gives further evidence of the folkuse of E. longifolia as an aphrodisiac.
PMID: 10803359 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
----
Arch Pharm Res. 2001 Oct;24(5):437-40. Related Articles, Links
Effects of Eurycoma longifolia jack on laevator ani muscle in both uncastrated and testosterone-stimulated castrated intact male rats.
Ang HH, Cheang HS.
School of Pharmaceutical Sciences, University Science Malaysia, Minden, 11800, Penang, Malaysia. [email protected]
It has been reported that Eurycoma longifolia Jack commonly known as Tongkat Ali has gained notoreity as a symbol of man's ego and strength by the Malaysian men because it increases male virility and sexual prowess during sexual activities. As such, the effects of 200, 400 and 800 mg/kg of butanol, methanol, water and chloroform fractions of E. longifolia Jack were studied on the laevator ani muscle in both uncastrated and testosterone-stimulated castrated intact male rats after dosing them for 12 consecutive weeks. Results showed that 800 mg/kg of butanol, methanol, water and chloroform fractions of E. longifolia Jack significantly increased (p<0.05) the leavator ani muscle to 58.56+/-1.22, 58.23+/-0.31, 60.21 +/-0.86 and 62.35 +/-0.98 mg/100 g body weight, respectively, when compared with the control (untreated) in the uncastrated intact male rats and 49.23+/-0.82, 52.23+/-0.36, 50.21+/-0.66 and 52.35+/-0.58 mg/100 g body weight, respectively, when compared to control (untreated) in the testosterone-stimulated castrated intact male rats. Hence, the pro-androgenic effect as shown by this study further supported the traditional use of this plant as an aphrodisiac.
PMID: 11693547 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
----
J Basic Clin Physiol Pharmacol. 2003;14(3):301-8. Related Articles, Links
Eurycoma longifolia Jack enhances sexual motivation in middle-aged male mice.
Ang HH, Lee KL, Kiyoshi M.
School of Pharmaceutical Sciences, University Science Malaysia, Minden, Penang, Malaysia. [email protected]
Eurycoma longifolia Jack was investigated for sexual motivation activity in adult, middle-aged male mice and in retired breeders, using the modified open field and the modified runway choice methods. Each mouse received 500 mg/kg of one of 4 fractions of E. longifolia Jack, viz. chloroform, methanol, butanol, and water, whereas the mice in the control and yohimbine groups received 3 ml/kg of normal saline and 30 mg/kg of yohimbine daily respectively for 10 d. The results show a transient increase in the percentage of male mice responding to the right choice after chronic consumption of the fractions with 50 percent of the adult middle-aged male mice treated with E. longifolia Jack and yohimbine scoring the right choice after 8 and 5 days post-treatment respectively. In conclusion, this study has shown that E. longifolia Jack continues to enhance sexual motivation in adult, middle-aged male mice and in retired breeders.
PMID: 14964739 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
----
Ang HH, Ngai TH, Tan TH.
Effects of Eurycoma longifolia Jack on sexual qualities in middle aged male rats.
School of Pharmaceutical Sciences, University Science Malaysia, Minden, Penang, Malaysia. [email protected]
The effects of Eurycoma longifolia Jack were studied on the sexual qualities of middle aged male rats after dosing them with 0.5 g/kg of various fractions of E. longifolia whilst the control group received 3 ml/kg of normal saline daily for 12 weeks. Results showed than E. longifolia Jack enhanced the sexual qualities of the middle aged male rats by decreasing their hesitation time as compared to controls with various fractions of E. longifolia Jack produced 865-916 (91-96), 860-914 (92-98), 850-904 (93-99), 854-890 (95-99), 844-880 (94-98), 840-875 (94-98), 830-870 (94-98), 825-860 (94-98), 820-850 (96-99), 800-840 (93-98), 750-795 (94-99) and 650-754 sec (82-95%) in contrast to controls which produced 950 (100), 934 (100), 910 (100), 900 (100), 895 (100), 890 (100), 885 (100), 880 (100), 855 (100), 860 (100), 800 (100) and 790 sec (100%) throughout the investigation period. Besides these, there was a transient increase in the % of the male rats responding to the right choice after chronic administration of 0.5 g/kg E. longifolia Jack, with more than 50% of the male rats scored right choice after 2 weeks post-treatment and the effect was more prominent at the dose of the observation period. However, there was no sexual enhancement of the middle aged male rats which consumed normal saline since only 45-55% of the male rats responded to right choice throughout the investigation period. Hence, this study shows that E. longifolia Jack enhanced the sexual qualities of the middle aged male rats, further supports the folkuse of E. longifolia Jack as an aphrodisiac.
PMID: 13678248 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
----
Effects of Eurycoma longifolia Jack (Tongkat Ali) on the initiation of sexual performance of inexperienced castrated male rats.
Ang HH, Cheang HS, Yusof AP.
School of Pharmaceutical Sciences, University Science Malaysia, Penang, Malaysia.
We studied the effects of Eurycoma longifolia Jack, commonly known as Tongkat Ali in Malaysia, on the initiation of sexual performance and the weights of sexual accessories in inexperienced castrated male rats. The doses of 200, 400 and 800 mg/kg body weight, which were extracted from E. longifolia Jack, were orally administered to the rats twice daily for 10 days prior to the tests and continued throughout the test period. Testosterone was used as a positive control after injecting 15 mg/kg daily subcutaneously for 32 days. Results showed that E. longifolia Jack produced a dose-dependent increase in sexual performance of the treated animals, but the E. longifolia Jack groups showed lower sexual performance in mounting, intromission and ejaculation than the testosterone group. Further results also showed that E. longifolia Jack promoted the growth of both ventral prostate and seminal vesicles as compared with the control, but the growth of sexual accessories at 800 mg/kg of butanol, methanol, water and chloroform fractions of E. longifolia Jack was less than that of testosterone treated group. The present study therefore gives further evidence of the folkuse of E. longifolia as an aphrodisiac.
PMID: 10803359 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
----
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