Help w/ details please!! (bkgrnd and pics inc.)

Help please!! (background and pics included)...K if it lets me!

OKay... so first off i'd like to thank you guys for the input on my last thread... and i figure it will probably take me about 6-8 weeks to get all of my gear and PCT in place, so I've decided to try and lean out a bit before i hit test E for a 10 week clean bulker.

Here is the background and a couple of pics:
http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?t=405216

So i need some advice on how to do this (K if it lets me!)... this is what my diet is looking like:

8:00am
4 egg whites
2 whole eggs
1 slice of whole wheat toast
1 cup of green beans
1/2 cup OJ with my greens +

10:30
375g cottage cheese
125g of bran

12:30
50g whey pro
1 tablespoon UDO’s oil

3:00
300g of Chicken Breast
1 cup of green beans

5:00
50g whey pro
1 tablespoon UDO’s oil

7:00
300g of Chicken Breast
1 cup brown rice

8:00 Train
PW 50g pro + 25g dextrose

10pm 300g chicken
1 cup green beans

11pm casein shake with tablespoon PB


Cardio:
1/2 hour walk first thing in the am
1/2 starmill after training
-Note: never done cardio before so i'm not sure if this is okay

Also taking Vit C, E, St. Johns, Valarian Root
Drink Crystal Light, occasional glass of milk.

Please let me know if this is okay!!!! ANY input is welcomed!
VW

^^ anyone???

That looks like a good start. Try to throw some nuts in if you can, and get a better variety of vegges. You love them green beens don't ya? haha! Oatmeal is good also to mix up your whole grains.

I can add the nuts and i can throw oatmeal into my shakes, but if you just add in some beef and an N-Large shake and that's my bulking diet again LOL so i took all that out to try and lean up a bit.
VW

and yes i love the green beans! so easy and tasty! must spread karma around before giving to Krishna again...

8:00am
4 egg whites
2 whole eggs
1 slice of whole wheat toast I would go with 1C Oats here
1 cup of green beans You can also use canned or forzen mixed veggies which is quick and easy
1/2 cup OJ with my greens +

10:30
375g cottage cheese
125g of bran

12:30
50g whey pro
1 tablespoon UDO’s oil Add 1C oats here

3:00
300g of Chicken Breast
1 cup of green beans
Add medium sized sweet potato

5:00
50g whey pro
1 tablespoon UDO’s oil

7:00
300g of Chicken Breast
1 cup brown rice You can alternate between brown rice and a medium sized sweet potato/yam, which ever you like better

8:00 Train
PW 50g pro + 25g dextrose

10pm 300g chicken
1 cup green beans
If you need a break from the chicken, I recommend lean meat here, 8-10oz 94% lean ground beef, chili powder is good to add for flavor

11pm casein shake with tablespoon PB this is fine


Cardio:
1/2 hour walk first thing in the am
1/2 starmill after training
-Note: never done cardio before so i'm not sure if this is okay
Just keep the cardio in the am, but bump it up to 45mins

Also taking Vit C, E, St. Johns, Valarian Root
Drink Crystal Light, occasional glass of milk.



These are changes that I recommend. You dont have enough carbs in your diet. When I start my diet I even have more carbs then what I added for you. You need to leave room for changes as your diet progresses and things begin to slow. You need to leave room to remove carbs and lessen cals as time goes on or you will hit a plateau. Same with the cardio, you need to start out at 45mins in the am, 4-5 days per week, after about 6-8 weeks, you will bump it up to 50-60mins am, then begin to add an additional 30-40mins in the PM. Get it. Try my ideas, I know you probably see the addition of carbs and your getting scared, but DONT, believe me on this. As long as they are the right types of carbs such as oats and yams, they will not affect you in a negative way.

The only thing I PERSONALLY would suggest (I can see others disagreeing though) is to not have any carbs in your post-AM cardio meal.

Other than that, perhaps a little bit low fat even though you've got a good start with the Udo's oil, pb, and egg yolks. If you add some nuts in like Krishna suggested that would probably do the trick.

As for cardio I see a few possible options. What you have laid out right now is fine, but if you've never done cardio before jumping right into an hour every day might be a bit much. You could probably get away with skipping the PWO cardio, at least for the first couple of weeks.

However, if you want to do an hour of cardio every day, and time permits, I'd rather split it up 45min/15min (or 40/20...something to that effect). I find a nice 45 min cardio session is a great way to start the day off on the right track if fat loss is the goal. This also allows you to have your PWO shake closer to the conclusion of your actual weights workout.

Themachine01 said:

8:00am

These are changes that I recommend. You dont have enough carbs in your diet. When I start my diet I even have more carbs then what I added for you. You need to leave room for changes as your diet progresses and things begin to slow. You need to leave room to remove carbs and lessen cals as time goes on or you will hit a plateau. Same with the cardio, you need to start out at 45mins in the am, 4-5 days per week, after about 6-8 weeks, you will bump it up to 50-60mins am, then begin to add an additional 30-40mins in the PM. Get it. Try my ideas, I know you probably see the addition of carbs and your getting scared, but DONT, believe me on this. As long as they are the right types of carbs such as oats and yams, they will not affect you in a negative way.

Click to expand...

1. I guess i never really had enough carbs in my diet to start with.... even while bulking! is this a problem?? Adding in those carbs, (and 2-3 N-Large shakes is exactly my bulking diet)

2. What type of cardio do you think would be best in the am??

3. Jenetic mentioned Levorex and R-ALA... what's your view on this or any other supplements i should be taking?

4. Holy christ you are jacked... i want to look like that.

THanks
VW

Joe Stenson said:

The only thing I PERSONALLY would suggest (I can see others disagreeing though) is to not have any carbs in your post-AM cardio meal.

Other than that, perhaps a little bit low fat even though you've got a good start with the Udo's oil, pb, and egg yolks. If you add some nuts in like Krishna suggested that would probably do the trick.

As for cardio I see a few possible options. What you have laid out right now is fine, but if you've never done cardio before jumping right into an hour every day might be a bit much. You could probably get away with skipping the PWO cardio, at least for the first couple of weeks.

However, if you want to do an hour of cardio every day, and time permits, I'd rather split it up 45min/15min (or 40/20...something to that effect). I find a nice 45 min cardio session is a great way to start the day off on the right track if fat loss is the goal. This also allows you to have your PWO shake closer to the conclusion of your actual weights workout.

Click to expand...

Interesting...what's the logicbehind the no carbs post morning cardio?
VW

van_wilder said:

1. I guess i never really had enough carbs in my diet to start with.... even while bulking! is this a problem?? Adding in those carbs, (and 2-3 N-Large shakes is exactly my bulking diet)

2. What type of cardio do you think would be best in the am??

3. Jenetic mentioned Levorex and R-ALA... what's your view on this or any other supplements i should be taking?

4. Holy christ you are jacked... i want to look like that.

THanks
VW

Click to expand...

First off Jenetic dont know shit To answer your question on carbs, you definately need to add them. I keep carbs in my diet all the way up to the final 2 weeks of my diet. I mainly use yams/sweet potatos which are an excellent source of carbs while cutting.

Everyone has different opinions on cardio, but I know what has worked best for me which is a brisk walk on the treadmill set at a nice incline. You want to be consistant with your cardio and you need to be able to keep it constant for the complete 45-60 mins, so you dont want to make it too brisk of a walk, a good role of thumb is that you should be able to hold a conversation while doing cardio, trying to maintain a heart rate of about 70% of your max. Its extremely boring but it works wonders.

I just started using levorex and R-ala myself, Im going to run them for a couple months before giving my opinion them. They both are used and liked by many and definately will not hurt, if you have the money for them then give them a try.

Thanks for the compliment bro, hope these ideas help.

van_wilder said:

2. What type of cardio do you think would be best in the am??

Click to expand...

Something low intensity like an incline walk on the treadmill.

van_wilder said:

Interesting...what's the logicbehind the no carbs post morning cardio?

Click to expand...

Post-cardio nutrition should be based on the type of cardio performed. High-intensity cardio requires PWO nutrition just like a weights workout (ie. protein + carbs), but as you can see above I'm not recommending high-intensity cardio in the AM...no one else will either.

It's usually suggested that after low/moderate intensity cardio, you should have a meal consisting of either just protein or protein + fat. What time of day this cardio is performed is irrelevant to the eating that should follow.

Themachine01 said:

First off Jenetic dont know shit To answer your question on carbs, you definately need to add them. I keep carbs in my diet all the way up to the final 2 weeks of my diet. I mainly use yams/sweet potatos which are an excellent source of carbs while cutting.

Everyone has different opinions on cardio, but I know what has worked best for me which is a brisk walk on the treadmill set at a nice incline. You want to be consistant with your cardio and you need to be able to keep it constant for the complete 45-60 mins, so you dont want to make it too brisk of a walk, a good role of thumb is that you should be able to hold a conversation while doing cardio, trying to maintain a heart rate of about 70% of your max. Its extremely boring but it works wonders.

I just started using levorex and R-ala myself, Im going to run them for a couple months before giving my opinion them. They both are used and liked by many and definately will not hurt, if you have the money for them then give them a try.

Thanks for the compliment bro, hope these ideas help.

Click to expand...

yeah...i had only mentioned the brisk walk because my gym is so far away...i don't have time to drive for half and hour there and back in the mornings before work...

I will incorporate the carbs starting tomorrow!
what about an ECA stack? i noticed you mentioned that you use it in another thread...
VW

Joe Stenson said:

Something low intensity like an incline walk on the treadmill.



Post-cardio nutrition should be based on the type of cardio performed. High-intensity cardio requires PWO nutrition just like a weights workout (ie. protein + carbs), but as you can see above I'm not recommending high-intensity cardio in the AM...no one else will either.

It's usually suggested that after low/moderate intensity cardio, you should have a meal consisting of either just protein or protein + fat. What time of day this cardio is performed is irrelevant to the eating that should follow.

Click to expand...

makes sense! so dump carbs all together in my breakfast? ....man i hate eggs by themselves... but whatever it takes i guess...LOL
VW

van_wilder said:

makes sense! so dump carbs all together in my breakfast? ....man i hate eggs by themselves... but whatever it takes i guess...LOL
VW

Click to expand...

Your body will continue to burn cals after you are done cardio, so I wait about 30 mins after cardio but consume egg whites and 1C oats, there is no need to not consume oats after cardio.

Themachine01 said:

Your body will continue to burn cals after you are done cardio, so I wait about 30 mins after cardio but consume egg whites and 1C oats, there is no need to not consume oats after cardio.

Click to expand...

You're recommending a breakfast of protein and carbs (no fat). I said above that people would likely disagree with me, but I'd like to hear your reasoning behind this.

I can't even remember the exact reasoning behind my suggestion, but it's been repeated time and again on many boards. I think it has something to do with those cals you said your body continues to burn post-cardio. The body always preferentially uses carbs for energy if they're available, so by not giving it any, you're forcing it to continue burning fat.

I agree with waiting to eat though. I usually hold out for about an hour, but I wouldn't go any longer than that.

Wow very helpfull thread

thanx fellas

Joe Stenson said:

You're recommending a breakfast of protein and carbs (no fat). I said above that people would likely disagree with me, but I'd like to hear your reasoning behind this.

I can't even remember the exact reasoning behind my suggestion, but it's been repeated time and again on many boards. I think it has something to do with those cals you said your body continues to burn post-cardio. The body always preferentially uses carbs for energy if they're available, so by not giving it any, you're forcing it to continue burning fat.

I agree with waiting to eat though. I usually hold out for about an hour, but I wouldn't go any longer than that.

Click to expand...

You just finished doing 45 - 60 mins of cardio on an empty stomach, your glucose levels were very depleted therefore burning more fat cals then if your glucose levels had been higher, your metabolism will be boosted for a period of time after you are done the cardio, so 1C of oats will not affect the fat you have already burned and will most likely be burned as fuel by your muscles to help prevent muscle loss from cardio with depleted glucose levels. I understand the science behind what you are referring to, but I have tried both approaches in the past and feel the complex carbs 30 mins after cardio is the best approach to burning fat while avoiding as much muscle loss as possible. It will take your body time to break down the complex carbs that you consume therefore keeping your glucose levels low for at least another 30-60mins after consuming them.

Themachine01 said:

You just finished doing 45 - 60 mins of cardio on an empty stomach, your glucose levels were very depleted therefore burning more fat cals then if your glucose levels had been higher, your metabolism will be boosted for a period of time after you are done the cardio, so 1C of oats will not affect the fat you have already burned and will most likely be burned as fuel by your muscles to help prevent muscle loss from cardio with depleted glucose levels. I understand the science behind what you are referring to, but I have tried both approaches in the past and feel the complex carbs 30 mins after cardio is the best approach to burning fat while avoiding as much muscle loss as possible. It will take your body time to break down the complex carbs that you consume therefore keeping your glucose levels low for at least another 30-60mins after consuming them.

Click to expand...

Ok cool, good explanation. I think it comes down to personal preference then because "my" way is probably slightly better for fat loss and yours is better for avoiding catabolism. Now I realize that no one out there wants to lose muscle, but for those people that have a very tough time shedding fat they might not care quite as much.

Links don't work for me. WTF?!

Man thats a lot of cardio. Didnt he say bulker? There is no way id ever be doing an hour of cardio while bulking. Period...