Please Scroll Down to See Forums Below
napsgear
genezapharmateuticals
domestic-supply US-PHARMACIES
UGL OZ Raptor Labs UGFREAK
napsgeargenezapharmateuticals domestic-supplyUS-PHARMACIES UGL OZUGFREAKRaptor Labs

Opinions please. Welcome to Plateauland. Population: Pintoca

pintoca

pintoca

New member
OK cutting colleagues...

I have had the luck of enjoying 7 months non-stop of fat-loss Nirvana. It didn't come for free, I did my research and worked hard for it, but the pay off has been great, far exceeding my initial expectations.

Nevertheless, the time has come for the inevitable to happen: For the past 2 weeks I have notice neither my weight or bf% going anywhere, they just sit there... The funny thing is I CAN TELL my upper body is looking leaner (I can see things in my arms/delts I could not see before and somethings are happening in my back also... You can also tell the leg is composed of 2 muscles now, with a separation in the middle) Saying the fat scale is off could be a simple solution, but the thing has worked for 7months, why should go kaputt from one day to the other? (not like is running MS software or anything)

I knew this would happen sooner or later (luckily it happened later) and have been thinking what to do once the moment came, so lets take a look at my options:

1. Check my diet: I believe 100% my problem is adaptation and not starvation: I've been eating in the range of 2000-2200 cals (low carb days, 5x week) and 2500-2700 cals (high carb days, 2x week) for 7 months straight, I took no break in December or anything... so my body most likely learnt how to deal with this amount of cals.

2. Increase cardio: :) The option that always come to mind... problem is I am already doing cardio 6x/week at 75-83% MHR for 45 min. I have thought about the possibility of moving my cardio to the morning on an empty stomach, but I am sleeping 4-5 hours tops everynight as it is, so cutting into that is not an option. Cardio will need to remain in the evenings... Could try a combination of HIIT and steady state too, to spice things up

3. take a break: Based on what I observed it happened after taking a 10 days unplanned break, is to up cals to maintenance level, keep lifting and reduce cardio.. then come back with everything I have. Shock Therapy of sorts.

So those are the 3 things I can think of right now. For me it is clear that breaking a plateau is always a matter of being stricter on your diet (cheat less) and training harder (the exception being if you are in starvation or overtrained, neither of which I feel). To break adaptation you need to do things differently.

Right now I think I will stick to the following plan (unless you come up with some good suggestions).

1. Up cals to maintenance (close to 3000 for me) level for 2 weeks, continue with lifting schedule (5x week) and use the surplus carbs to increase working weights. Reduce cardio to twice per week. After the 2 week period, resume diet (2100x5 & 2550x2) and change cardio routine to include a mixture of HIIT and Steady state (avoiding the ellptical, since it has grown too easy after 7 months... I am now an Elliptical Black Belt of sorts)

The ratios I plan to use are: 35% P, 50% carbs, 15% fat (my basic carb up ratios)

So, what do you all think should be my next move?
 
pintoca said:
OK cutting colleagues...

I have had the luck of enjoying 7 months non-stop of fat-loss Nirvana. It didn't come for free, I did my research and worked hard for it, but the pay off has been great, far exceeding my initial expectations.

Nevertheless, the time has come for the inevitable to happen: For the past 2 weeks I have notice neither my weight or bf% going anywhere, they just sit there... The funny thing is I CAN TELL my upper body is looking leaner (I can see things in my arms/delts I could not see before and somethings are happening in my back also... You can also tell the leg is composed of 2 muscles now, with a separation in the middle) Saying the fat scale is off could be a simple solution, but the thing has worked for 7months, why should go kaputt from one day to the other? (not like is running MS software or anything)

I knew this would happen sooner or later (luckily it happened later) and have been thinking what to do once the moment came, so lets take a look at my options:

1. Check my diet: I believe 100% my problem is adaptation and not starvation: I've been eating in the range of 2000-2200 cals (low carb days, 5x week) and 2500-2700 cals (high carb days, 2x week) for 7 months straight, I took no break in December or anything... so my body most likely learnt how to deal with this amount of cals.

2. Increase cardio: :) The option that always come to mind... problem is I am already doing cardio 6x/week at 75-83% MHR for 45 min. I have thought about the possibility of moving my cardio to the morning on an empty stomach, but I am sleeping 4-5 hours tops everynight as it is, so cutting into that is not an option. Cardio will need to remain in the evenings... Could try a combination of HIIT and steady state too, to spice things up

3. take a break: Based on what I observed it happened after taking a 10 days unplanned break, is to up cals to maintenance level, keep lifting and reduce cardio.. then come back with everything I have. Shock Therapy of sorts.

So those are the 3 things I can think of right now. For me it is clear that breaking a plateau is always a matter of being stricter on your diet (cheat less) and training harder (the exception being if you are in starvation or overtrained, neither of which I feel). To break adaptation you need to do things differently.

Right now I think I will stick to the following plan (unless you come up with some good suggestions).

1. Up cals to maintenance (close to 3000 for me) level for 2 weeks, continue with lifting schedule (5x week) and use the surplus carbs to increase working weights. Reduce cardio to twice per week. After the 2 week period, resume diet (2100x5 & 2550x2) and change cardio routine to include a mixture of HIIT and Steady state (avoiding the ellptical, since it has grown too easy after 7 months... I am now an Elliptical Black Belt of sorts)

The ratios I plan to use are: 35% P, 50% carbs, 15% fat (my basic carb up ratios)

So, what do you all think should be my next move?
Click to expand...

Would it be possible for you to switch to running. A treadmill I guess would work , I'm just not a huge fan of low impact cardio. Time for a change there I think.

Go to bed earlier so you can do cardio with an empty stomach in the morning.
 
Yep, I agree with the threadmill, since it has some sort of cushioning which makes it easier on the knees (I tried running on the street fort 1 week and at the end of it could barely walk). Will need to buld it up though, guess I can make up for speed with the incline.

About the sleep, believe me, I would LOVE to be able to go to sleep earlier and sleep undisturbed, but having a 4month old boy in the house is not really helping that :) He just opposes his parents sleeping the night through. That will get better eventually (hopefully) and then I will start doing early morning cardio.

Thanks for the input man.
 
A few simple ideas that always work for me in a plateau:

switch up diets (i.e. from a CKD to a high protein diet)
increase carb up days (I think you are already doing these)
switch up cardio, as gj said
switch up training routine (different split, different days, different number of days, different type of training)
 
How long has your weight stalled for? Is it possible that you may have gained ome LBM and lost some fat at the same time? This is unlikely if you are all man, I know.

Assuming this isn't the case, you've probably got a good understanding of your body now since you have been monitoring calories and cutting for a while. To be honest I like your idea of eating at maintenance for 2 weeks and reducing cardio to 2 x week just to shock the system and break the monotony.

Otherwise, you may want to alter the macros in your diet for a couple of weeks. You could try CKD or something similar if you can hand those extreme type of diets.

And I don't now about you, but when I run for an extended period of time, I lose too much lean mass. It's not good for the joints, either. My cardio consists of either swimming or cycling.
 
KillahBee said:
A few simple ideas that always work for me in a plateau:

1. switch up diets (i.e. from a CKD to a high protein diet)
2. increase carb up days (I think you are already doing these)
3. switch up cardio, as gj said
4. switch up training routine (different split, different days, different number of days, different type of training)
Click to expand...

Thanks Killah, my comments are:

1. I don't really think I could do well on a CKD, I have eaten relatively low fat my whole life and when I eat something that feels too fatty in my mouth, I feel like puking... thanks my mom for that...

2. I will do that, upping to around 3000 cals now.

3. Will do that too, moving to the threadmill now, with an incline

4. 1 week ago I did that too, I have now a 3 days split (legs, chest/shoulders/triceps, back/biceps/traps) I do legs once a week (the DOMS kills me for at least 4 days) and repeat my other 2 days ever 72 hours. This is completely new to me.
 
|D_J^B_J| said:
How long has your weight stalled for? Is it possible that you may have gained ome LBM and lost some fat at the same time? This is unlikely if you are all man, I know.

Assuming this isn't the case, you've probably got a good understanding of your body now since you have been monitoring calories and cutting for a while. To be honest I like your idea of eating at maintenance for 2 weeks and reducing cardio to 2 x week just to shock the system and break the monotony.

Otherwise, you may want to alter the macros in your diet for a couple of weeks. You could try CKD or something similar if you can hand those extreme type of diets.

And I don't now about you, but when I run for an extended period of time, I lose too much lean mass. It's not good for the joints, either. My cardio consists of either swimming or cycling.
Click to expand...

Right now, it has been only 2 weeks, so I am taking measures now to avoid this being a long rut.

I think I will stick to the 2 weeks to 4 weeks "mini-bulking" phase, because that is what is going to be. With the difference I will go only up to mainteance cals (3000 cals). I will most likely not gain any LBM, but hopefully I will shock my body into doing something different.

The more I think about it, the more I realize that 7 months straight might be a bit overdoing it, talk about diminishing returns.
 
Pintoca,
Congrats on all of your success with weight loss. Over the last few years I got my bodyfat down from 25% to 10% at 200lbs. It takes a while so don't give up. I was wondering if you ever tried cutting your calories even further for a couple of days and then going back to 2500. This has worked for me whenever I hit a sticking point. As long as you don't loose any strength in your lifts you should be fine. Best of luck.
 
alex2678 said:
Pintoca,
Congrats on all of your success with weight loss. Over the last few years I got my bodyfat down from 25% to 10% at 200lbs. It takes a while so don't give up. I was wondering if you ever tried cutting your calories even further for a couple of days and then going back to 2500. This has worked for me whenever I hit a sticking point. As long as you don't loose any strength in your lifts you should be fine. Best of luck.
Click to expand...

Thanks man, that is an idea. The lowest I have been is about 1900, which is borderline. You suggest going below BMR (1900 is my BMR) or below 1800 cals in 6 meals?

A couple of days I might have gone below that but only because I skipped meals, but that kills the purpose.

hitting some 1500 cals with 6 meals should do something too, but I won't be able to lift (I guess).
 
pintcota, when you say calorie cycled up and down, the only thing you deleted or added was the carbs? no higher protien or fats? just carbs?
 
nope, on low cals, I was doing 45%P, 30% carbs, and 25% fat... on High carbs, I was doing 35%p, 50%C, 15% f
 
Pintoca,
This all sounds really familiar too me. I must have spent 8 months when I was dieting, trying out all types of diet combinations of protein, carbs and fats and never lost or gained a pound. One guy at work, who never worked out in his life told me that I was just "eatin too much". After reading all the bodybuilding magazines, I was hesitant to lower my calories for fear of losing size and strength. This was my last shot. I made my usual 6 small meals a day ahead of time and simply ate half. I either put the tupperware container back in the fridge for tommarrow or threw it away. Within a few months I went from 15% bodyfat down to 10% and my strength on all of my lifts stayed the same. Keep training with heavy weights, don't go crazy with the aerobics and drop your calories and you'll be down at least 5 pounds of fat by the end of next month. Good luck.
 
What about supplements?

Ephdedrine HCL + caffeine for example ?

(Clen, T3 or, if you really know what you're doing and do it properly, DNP)
 
StellarTiggy said:
Where's my fattytoca? Anthrax, you know I <3 ya, but I prohibited fattytoca from taking those type of supplements since he became my bitch. Sorry :)
Click to expand...

Yes, Ma'am :)

But, you know, ephedrine HCl + caffeine in reasonable dosage has little to no side effect
 
Anthrax said:
Yes, Ma'am :)

But, you know, ephedrine HCl + caffeine in reasonable dosage has little to no side effect
Click to expand...

Anthrax, thanks for the suggestions Bro, while I know there are things out there that could help me a bit, I believe that going head on into sups when you are still at 20+% BF is a waste of money. I thin there are still options, natural one. I will definitely explore the sups Dpt for my last 5% (14 to 9) (but only if Tiggy allows it by then)

Right now, I have decided to give my body, and myself, a break and started a mini-bulking cycle of 2~4 weeks, just to shake things up and do something different. So far (only 5 days) the experience has been great!!!
 
OK guys, little update after a week of "bulking" at Maintenance level (2900 cals):

4.1 lbs LBM gained
1.4 lbs FAT gained
5.5 lbs TOTAL gained

Obviously, my body is still getting used to the sudden increase in cals, as nobody should gain this much on maintenance cals.

My plan is to continue to eat at maintenance for 1 more week and then up to real bulking cals at 3500 cals/day and see what happens. Hopefully this will not blow in my face. After 4 weeks, I will return to cutting-mode with a vengeance.

One thing I can tell, besides the fact that going to the Gym and pushing/pulling really heavy stuff is much more fun than working with girly weights is that I swear I can tell where that LBM went: I can see it all in my upper body, specifically in the area around my delt/chest.

During the past 7 days I did cardio.... ONCE, and only for 30 mins... BWHAHAHAHAH :evil:

Anyway, will keep you posted on that.

Here a pic of the upperbody (still very much a work in progress)

upperbody_06.05.05.jpg
 
pintoca said:
Thanks man, that is an idea. The lowest I have been is about 1900, which is borderline. You suggest going below BMR (1900 is my BMR) or below 1800 cals in 6 meals?

A couple of days I might have gone below that but only because I skipped meals, but that kills the purpose.

hitting some 1500 cals with 6 meals should do something too, but I won't be able to lift (I guess).
Click to expand...



You must zigzag your calories from ultra low (after cheat days for ex.) to bmr (middle of week) to slightly higher (to spike leptin/metabolism etc)

I'd go 1200-2200 range
 
Rainbows said:
You must zigzag your calories from ultra low (after cheat days for ex.) to bmr (middle of week) to slightly higher (to spike leptin/metabolism etc)

I'd go 1200-2200 range
Click to expand...

I'd keep that in mind, until know I was zig-zagging in the 2100-2600 range (3 days low, 1 day high)

I guess, the real test is measuring how much LBM is lost doing that. With the range I used before the amounf ot LBM lost in comparison the amount of fat is negligible.

Thanks for the comment.
 
Is the first time your weight has plateaued since losing.....it might just be adjusting and sometimes if you don't panic and keep doing with your doing it will begin to drop again....but not always....
 
Gymgurl said:
Is the first time your weight has plateaued since losing.....it might just be adjusting and sometimes if you don't panic and keep doing with your doing it will begin to drop again....but not always....
Click to expand...

Yeah I know, but I just hate to "wait and see"... I did it for 2 weeks and then decided I needed to try something else.

As long as I am monitoring constantly what is going on I'm sure I won't let it get off hands, the moment I see fat is gaining on me, back to the cutting table.

Besides, I am having ENORMOUS fun being a spoiled brat with all this eating... it feels good!!!
 
pintoca said:
OK guys, little update after a week of "bulking" at Maintenance level (2900 cals):

4.1 lbs LBM gained
1.4 lbs FAT gained
5.5 lbs TOTAL gained

Obviously, my body is still getting used to the sudden increase in cals, as nobody should gain this much on maintenance cals.

My plan is to continue to eat at maintenance for 1 more week and then up to real bulking cals at 3500 cals/day and see what happens. Hopefully this will not blow in my face. After 4 weeks, I will return to cutting-mode with a vengeance.

One thing I can tell, besides the fact that going to the Gym and pushing/pulling really heavy stuff is much more fun than working with girly weights is that I swear I can tell where that LBM went: I can see it all in my upper body, specifically in the area around my delt/chest.

During the past 7 days I did cardio.... ONCE, and only for 30 mins... BWHAHAHAHAH :evil:

Anyway, will keep you posted on that.

Here a pic of the upperbody (still very much a work in progress)

upperbody_06.05.05.jpg
Click to expand...


If it's mostly lean , why do you worry about that?? LBM should be welcome at all times.
 
gjohnson5 said:
If it's mostly lean , why do you worry about that?? LBM should be welcome at all times.
Click to expand...

Nor complaining Emperor, not at all. Wish I could keep this pace!!!
 
Good idea to start a mini bulk phase, I usually do that to switch things up if I think I'm plateauing - what are you using to measure body fat?
 
ChewYxRage said:
Good idea to start a mini bulk phase, I usually do that to switch things up if I think I'm plateauing - what are you using to measure body fat?
Click to expand...

Basically, the same body fat scale I've been using since I started. Not the most accurate of methods, I know, but for looking at trends, gets the job done. It has me right now at 26%... The one you hold (supposed to measure upper body) has me at 20,1%

If I were to believe both are doing their job more or less OK, I would say right now I am some 24% maybe.
 
k... I am done with the "bulking" thing... started to gain fat too fast to my taste. Guess that:

1. I went to 3000 cals too fast, next time will start at 2500 and move from there
2. Didn't keep it AS CLEAN as I should (added a burger there for good measure) shame on me
3. My body REALLY needs the cardio

So as of today I am in cutting mode again. I am keeping my "bulking-mode lifting", because I really like it.

Let's see where I get this time. hang on
 
pintoca said:
k... I am done with the "bulking" thing... started to gain fat too fast to my taste. Guess that:

1. I went to 3000 cals too fast, next time will start at 2500 and move from there
2. Didn't keep it AS CLEAN as I should (added a burger there for good measure) shame on me
3. My body REALLY needs the cardio

So as of today I am in cutting mode again. I am keeping my "bulking-mode lifting", because I really like it.

Let's see where I get this time. hang on
Click to expand...

GOOD LUCK! I like reading about your updates.

Speaking of cutting, what does TDEE mean in your cutting calculator? I am not sure what to put in for a min and max. Also, does this calculator apply to both men and women? I notice nothing happens when you change gender. Regardless, it's a great tool and thank you for creating and distributing it here.
 
Have you thought about using the StairMonster? I know that it sucks but my best results have been from that thing. I hit it 3 on 1 off 3 on for 50 mins. This is guidance I have been given by my diet and training coaches and it seems to work. You saw my previous post concerning my current diet.

From what I understand and have learned you can over cardio. You think it is possible that you may be doing that?
 
Roonytunes said:
GOOD LUCK! I like reading about your updates.

Speaking of cutting, what does TDEE mean in your cutting calculator? I am not sure what to put in for a min and max. Also, does this calculator apply to both men and women? I notice nothing happens when you change gender. Regardless, it's a great tool and thank you for creating and distributing it here.
Click to expand...

TDEE is the Total Daily Energy Expenditure and is a value that is automatically calculated. You only need to input your weight and BF.

The gender is taken into consideration only to calculate the minimum amount of cals allowed (1200 for f, 1800 for M). It's a way to protect people from going into extreme diets.

By default, the calculator is stup fo a somewhat aggresive diet program (-30% of TDEE on low days and -15% on high days). You can change those values to say, 0.8 and 1 for a -20% and 0% reduction respectively (a more conservative approach, albeit slower).

It is always a good thing to hear some people actually use the tool!!!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Callo
Approved Log Testosterone Masteron - Slu-pp 322 hgh mosts-c Retatrutide Cycle Log
Replies
64
Views
3K
the_alcatraz
the_alcatraz
J
Time To Grow - Sustanon, EQ & HGH
Replies
15
Views
222
Jimmy0187
J
Omad
Approved Log TRT Retatrutide Slu-pp 332 hgh Fat loss LOg
Replies
95
Views
5K
ballin2504
ballin2504
TheBigT28
Approved Log Test E, EQ and NPP growth cycle Log
2
Replies
177
Views
4K
MUSTANG_18
MUSTANG_18
Noah Wixx
Approved Log Wrist Injury Recovery Cycle - TRT, BPC157,TB500,HGH,Trizepatide, Mots-C, GW501156,Log With US-Pharmacies
2
Replies
154
Views
4K
ballin2504
ballin2504
Top Bottom