The Finished Product - Completed Madcow2 Program.

Well I have to admit that I really enjoyed the program recommended by Madcow2, I wish I'd heard about it before. I should let you guys know that I did finish 1 week early because I just cant afford to bulk anymore financially and school is starting to get a little more hectic. My diet pretty much consisted of tuna, protein shakes, cottage cheese, bread, ANPB, Potatoes...and cafe. I could have eaten a lot better had I been at home, but here i didnt have the luxury of having steak and chicken breast everynight. Anyhow, I naked weight when I began was 213 lbs (in some of my earlier posts i said i was 215, but that was with all my crap on) and have arrived at a finishing weight of 234.5 lbs. I am 6'1.5. I have never experience strength or size gains like i did with this program...and I have to admit, I was kinda skeptical atfirst because it went against everything i'd learned earlier...but, before this, my bench was weak, squat was weak, dl was weak, everything was weak. Now, everything is respectable:
Bench: 180 -> 235
Squat : 245 -> 325
DL: Same as Squat
Incline: 115 ->185
Chins: I can do them with ease now, despite the fact that it was harder for me at a lesser weight.
Rows: 185-> 245

I measured myself today, and damn was i surprise with what I saw. My arms went from 16 inches to 17 (cold)...and i got the stetch marks to prove it! My traps have increased tremendously...normally its hard to notice differences with yourself, but the change is so significant that i can see it myself. I didnt measure my legs before hand, but now they are 27.5-28 inches. Chest is up from 43 inches to 45.5 inches. Forearms are up from 13 inches to 13.5.

So overall, it was pretty successful. I put in the time and consider the circumstances with me having a crappy diet most of the way through (becaus i'm in residence), I did alright...I did gain some fat, but that comes with the prize as always.

Anyways, I just thought I'd share that with you all. Madcow2, props to you bro...I'd give ya more karma, but it says i have to spread it I am definitely going to use this method of training from now. I just hope it works well with a cutting cycle...speaking of which, Madcow2, do you have any advice for that?

What are these numbers for in terms of reps? Did you run the 3x per week intensity phase or the 2x per week?

You could carry on with week 9 without eating like an ogre and if time is an issue you could spread your week 9 over a week and a half but awesome results already for an 8-week investment. Congrats.

I ran the 3x per week program. Reps i Started with 5x5 and worked down to 3x3. I could go and complete the whole thing, but exams are coming up, i dont know if i have as much time to bulk. I dunno, maybe ill try pulling it off. I kinda wanna shed some fat so i can reveal my hardwork.

i been on my own program for a month now and have added almost 65lbs to my bench alone..sounds to me you had the drive and good form in the gym..a workout routin or program is nothing more than a bunch of numbers and words..do these items push the weight for you..you can lift weights in any form and get results if you have the above mentioned and the genetics..just remember its all about frequency, load (weight), resistance, rest and diet

nice work ceasar..i would continue with this routine regardless if you can afford to bulk or not.. the strength gains that you continue to make will help you down the road when you can get on a better diet..besides im sure youll still be able to gain just not as quickly sa before

great work ceasar!

great work bro. you're rowing a hellava lot of weight. now i'm even more pissed that i couldn't finish the program properly.

one thing i can say is, work that DL!

Nice work man. Solid progress all around. As for the final week(s), Don't worry about your diet, if you have some time just spread it out and train. With the 3x per week intensity even getting in 1-2x per week will get you another 2 weeks of strength accrual which will either translate into size now or later in your next training cycle. Hell even 1x per week give you a nice break from the books and your strength will peak out nicely.

As for running it in cutting mode, it works great under deficit. Under mild-moderate deficit conditions many have still made gains in LBM as long as they didn't begin ultra lean. Strength gains will likely show up regardless unless you are living the Auschwitz diet. I will throw out my favorite fat burner as an interval sprinting program (or anything interval if sprinting isn't an option). Just basic stuff is fine.

Again, nice work and good luck on your exams.

How long of a program was this? any AS involved?
Awesome results bor

Ceasar, Did you do any accessory work as well? Did you fit in any arm and calf work for example? I'm just curious because I'm gonna try this routine in a few weeks and I want to know if I should do some accessory work.

Madcow, what did you mean by "... I will throw out my favorite fat burner as an interval sprinting program (or anything interval if sprinting isn't an option). Just basic stuff is fine..." ?

It sounded a bit jumbled to me. I'm guessing you meant you would use sprints, but part of it ("throw out") made it sound as if you wouldn't bother with them.

If you would, how would you recommend they be done in relation to this program?

throw out = offer up = provide you with

fat burner = a misnomer for cardio but generally the goal for those looking for conditioning and fat loss

just basic stuff = no need for a complex full blown sprinting program, a basic series will work.

sweed and chitown,

No, I never used any AAS, too soon to use it as i am 19...plus i really dont care for it either. And i did not use an accessory work, no arms, no calves. I occasionally performs some weighted crunches but I almost felt like that was taking away from my core strength because when i did them, it felt really easy after doing some hard squats or deads so i just threw em away all together. For your arms, as Madcow2 and others have said countless times, you will get plenty of work done to your arms throwing heavy rowing, benching, chins. So that really isnt an issue. Calves...well, I've never really been to fond of calves regardless of what program im doing because i have to work them like a mofo, and they never increase or decrease in size. But yeah, thanks for the tips everyone, and the positive feedback. I really do recommend this program to anyone who has yet to try it.

People, don't hesitate to start this program. Throw on your nike's and just do it!!

Ceasar, to what extent did your gains in strength and mass come in comparison to fat gains?

Also, following Madcow2's workout, roughly how long did you spend in the gym per workout? (only 3 times a week if i'm correct)

this is a general madcows question but what type of row is this? DB 1 handed row or BB bent row or neither

Barbell bentover rows. Two variations in this thread: http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?t=366601

Post #3 and Post #19. Preferably use #19 but standard rows as close as possible to 90 degrees done explosively are also acceptable.

Can someone post the link to this program please ?

RGS83 said:

Ceasar, to what extent did your gains in strength and mass come in comparison to fat gains?

Also, following Madcow2's workout, roughly how long did you spend in the gym per workout? (only 3 times a week if i'm correct)

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I dont know the exact ratio of muslce to fat gains, but I did gain some fat, but nothing outrageous. Sorry i dont have a bf% before and after comparison for ya. But basically, whether i gained fat doesnt really matter should you try this program because your diet is going to be different from mine. I went three times a week, and depending on how busy it was, i would spend 50 minutes to 1.5 hours in the gym. There is also a 2x per week method if you are a little strapped for time, i would check that out.

I was asked a question in a pm in regards to my weekly weight increments for all my lifts. Basically, I kinda just went with what felt comfortable at the time...every week i would always raise a lift by atleast 5 pounds and no lie, I did add 20 pounds sometimes just because i felt like i could push harder. Yeah, it's a little inconsistent and quite a variation in weight, but i got to the same spot in the end had I progressed in more of a linear fashion.

Anthrax said:

Can someone post the link to this program please ?

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How did you miss this thread. It's 15 pages. 3 separate writeups on page 1 - I suggest reading them all. Posts 1, 10, 11, 12 particularly.

http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?t=375215

Madcow2 said:

How did you miss this thread. It's 15 pages. 3 separate writeups on page 1 - I suggest reading them all. Posts 1, 10, 11, 12 particularly.

http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?t=375215

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I didn't miss it, just couldn't remember where it was

It's just that I'm used to a 4 days a week routine (and I like that frequency) and 3 WO a week "only" seemed not enough to fulfill my hunger (I know the more is not the better still......)

BTW, thanks madcow2 !

21.5lbs in 8 weeks no aas? cmon. im not doubting this program at all but either youve never touched a weight in your life, your exaggerating your weightgain, or you did a cycle. Nice strength gains though, props.

|30ssman, obviously you've never tried this program so obviously you can't go making statements like that until you have tried it.

I'm in the 8th week of the program and I gained 16lbs and I coulda ate more.

I was not on drugs and I had been working out 4 days a week for about 5 months prior to when I started this routine. I have worked off and on for years.

Yes. You can gain ALOT of weight on this program drug-free.

Humm... This is one wild prog.
I'm just getting back into the workin out again after some time off. (man it's brutal)

Maybe i'll give this a world...

50min - 1.5hr isn't bad at all!!! Most who train should be able to pulll that off... i'm hitting 1hr - 1.5 hrs 4 times in a 5 day cycle

16 lbs in 8 weeks is believable on a bulk diet, but its not 21.5. its just hard to believe with the diet he listed, not bulking. I will be doing this routine soon and will post what i gain. I am currently doing a 2x week variation of the 5x5 right now and its great, no unbelievable weight gains like you guys are reporting though. keep it up

|3ossman said:

16 lbs in 8 weeks is believable on a bulk diet, but its not 21.5. its just hard to believe with the diet he listed, not bulking. I will be doing this routine soon and will post what i gain. I am currently doing a 2x week variation of the 5x5 right now and its great, no unbelievable weight gains like you guys are reporting though. keep it up

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Just so you realize this program is very different from the 5x5 program that is popular on this site and I guess in BBing circles on the net. Same name but totally different layout, volume, frequency, and underlying theory (essentially, it couldn't be more different despite the same name). This is based off the Bill Starr 5x5 from the 1970s and tweaked into a dual factor setup for experienced lifters by one of the better strength coaches around today (walk into any training complex in the country and say "5x5" and you will hear "Bill Starr"). I actually have zero to do with the design but somehow it got my username attached to it despite consistent effort. It is not a bbing program in design ( most bbing programs sucks across the board so this is a good thing) or purpose but more a general strength and condiitoning program for athletics. The nice benefit to BBers is that the hypertrophy gains can be staggering. There really isn't a program out there that consistently results in more hypertrophy. This thing has been in use in one form or another for over 30 years and it consistently produces excellent results across a broad range of athletes. It is generally avoided by athletes close to weight class restrictions simply because they need to severely curtail their diets to avoid weight gain. I've run into this problem myself not running a bulking diet at all. I had to slash calorie intake not once but twice to keep my weight inside the 240 range. I figured I had 5-8lbs to play with and that margin went by week 5. I ended up netting around 10 despite some pretty solid effort (everything but outright starvation/crash).

Program is here: http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?t=375215
Posts 3, 10, 11, 12 relate to the program

The primary underlying difference is dual factor theory which is explained in post 13 with 3 links.

Posts 234 and 235 on this page are also worthwhile for this purpose: http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?t=375215&page=12&pp=20

There is a lot of stuff pasted into that thread on various pages - too bad I haven't figured out a table of contents yet.

|3ossman said:

16 lbs in 8 weeks is believable on a bulk diet, but its not 21.5. its just hard to believe with the diet he listed, not bulking. I will be doing this routine soon and will post what i gain. I am currently doing a 2x week variation of the 5x5 right now and its great, no unbelievable weight gains like you guys are reporting though. keep it up

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I bulked dude. I ate like a muther fucker, cafe food or not. And, im not going to try and defend my gains either. I am telling you exactly what the scale said. I mean, what good would it do me to lie about my gains...lol, and i know your not accusing me, im just saying that my results are what i saw on the scale. Hell, i remember reading a post by Madcow about when he was in college and ran this gaining 35 pounds....oh, and you do realize that i did gain some fat with that as well as expected in a bulk.

i misread your post then, didnt think it was a bulking diet. Even with bulking and a little fat gain thats a lot of weight natural in 8 weeks, great job man.

|3ossman said:

i misread your post then, didnt think it was a bulking diet. Even with bulking and a little fat gain thats a lot of weight natural in 8 weeks, great job man.

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I hear ya bro. I was a little sketchy about the big weight gain too, but what else am i supposed to believe other than the scale.

The only thing I think I will do different with this program is add in some short sprint ladders 2X a week and that's it. I ain't changing the routine itself!

Staunch supporter and Defender of dual-factor theory here!

What's your reason for adding in sprints, big guy?

im starting this program the 28th, im taking this week off, i was getting burnt out from my current routine. i cant wait to see what squatting 3x a week feels like...

ceasar989 said:

Hell, i remember reading a post by Madcow about when he was in college and ran this gaining 35 pounds....oh, and you do realize that i did gain some fat with that as well as expected in a bulk.

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That's actually from a different guy who ran the original program in college for football. That was pulled from a deepsquatter article I believe (Chris Manrodt or something). 35lbs was over 16 weeks. Still very impressive and not at all uncommon. Variations of this are used by Glenn Pendlay and Mark Ripptoe for high school athletes. Glenn recently said in an interview that Mark routinely gets 30-40lbs on HS athletes in the first 6 months. This version is more of a single factor variation. Very very good for new lifters or those without a lot of experience, the dual factor version works well here also but the night and day difference is for experienced lifters because they simply aren't going to make progress by going in and hammering the weight every day hoping to get stronger each time. The link is in here: http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showpost.php?p=4497774&postcount=15

2.6 pounds per week, give or take. That's my weekly gains...just thought i'd throw that in lol.

I will add in sprints for cardiovascular health and so that I can dynamically apply my physical strength in an athletic setting and so that I can move around better. I'm slower than molasses right now simply becasue I haven't ran in awhile and my muscles aren't conditioned for it. I want to be real big, real strong and still be able to sprint a decent time.