How anti-catabolic is Clen?

I have been pondering this one for a while. If one were to use Clen alongside maybe one other thermogenic, would it be anti-catabolic enough to drastically drop cals and not lose any muscle? I wish to lose a lot of fat following my current bulk cycle (test/deca/dbol, followed by winny), but I don't want to go back on cycle to do so, even though I wish to spare as much muscle as possible. Anyone have experiences with Clen that can help with this question?

Personally, I don't think it's very anti-catabolic...at least not in the doses used by humans. I've seen studies where it has been proven anti-catabolic in rats, but they were using outrageous doses.

its not anticatabolic at all

rjl296 said:

its not anticatabolic at all

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Removed persuant to DMCA takedown request.

I'm with Bulldog_10, and rjl. The only studdies I've read, have been at supra-human dosages.

Due to the higher body temperature Clenbuterol magnifies the effect of anabolic/androgenic steroids taken simultaneously, since the protein processing is increased.

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I have a harder time gaining on clen, so if this is true, it's effects are not felt by all users.

Nighthawkk said:

"Clenbuterol is a very interesting and remarkable compound. It is not a steroid hormone but a beta-2-symphatomimetic. Clenbuterol, above all, has a strong anti-catabolic effect, which means it decreases the rate at which protein is reduced in the muscle cell, consequently causing an enlargement of muscle cells. For this reason, numerous athletes use Clenbuterol after steroid treatment to balance the resulting catabolic phase and thus obtain maximum strength and muscle mass. A further aspect of Clenbuterol is its distinct fat-burning effect. Clenbuterol burns fat without dieting because it increases the body temperature slightly, forcing the body to burn fat for this process. Due to the higher body temperature Clenbuterol magnifies the effect of anabolic/androgenic steroids taken simultaneously, since the protein processing is increased. "

http://www.anabolicreview.com/drugprofiles.php?steroid=89

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no offense, but those profiles suck

posted by dr. m at musclenexus.com
Beta-3 adrenergic receptors provide an anabolic stimulus. Beta-1 and Beta-2 adrenergic receptors provide a metabolically catabolic stimulus; essentially, they ramp-up the metabolism of the activated cell.

Humans have plenty of the Beta-1 and Beta-2 isoforms, and clenbuterol is a Beta-2 agonist. It's also a Beta-3 agonist, but we don't have Beta-3 adrenergic receptors in any appreciable amounts (that have been yet detected, at any rate). Hence, clen for humans is primarily catabolic.

Bulldog_10 said:

Personally, I don't think it's very anti-catabolic...at least not in the doses used by humans. I've seen studies where it has been proven anti-catabolic in rats, but they were using outrageous doses.

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Clen is probably more catabolic than anti-catabolic at high dosages. However, when you’re on a low calorie diet, things are very different, and Clen is then truly an anti-catabolic drug. It may sound paradoxical but it is not at all.

The thing with clen is that it doesn't work the way most people think. It acts via other, more important, pathways. I don't remember the whole thing, but it had positive effects on IGF and p70 (p70 is thought to be the primary translational factor responsible for hypertrophy). Basically, anything that increases the phosphorylation of p70 will have positive effects on muscle.

So basically, while clenbuterol itself isn't anabolic, it has positive effects on other things that are anti-catabolic AND anabolic. I just don't know if the doses that humans can withstand are large enough to elicit those positive effects. Everything that I've seen leads me to believe that they do not. So basically it ends up just acting as a mild stimulant.

Bulldog_10 said:

The thing with clen is that it doesn't work the way most people think. It acts via other, more important, pathways. I don't remember the whole thing, but it had positive effects on IGF and p70 (p70 is thought to be the primary translational factor responsible for hypertrophy). Basically, anything that increases the phosphorylation of p70 will have positive effects on muscle.

So basically, while clenbuterol itself isn't anabolic, it has positive effects on other things that are anti-catabolic AND anabolic. I just don't know if the doses that humans can withstand are large enough to elicit those positive effects. Everything that I've seen leads me to believe that they do not. So basically it ends up just acting as a mild stimulant.

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To your point albeit the study was performed on rats.

Elevated IGF-II mRNA and phosphorylation of 4E-BP1 and p70(S6k) in muscle showing clenbuterol-induced anabolism.

Sneddon AA, Delday MI, Steven J, Maltin CA.

The Rowett Research Institute, Bucksburn, Aberdeen AB21 9SB, Scotland, United Kingdom. [email protected]

Muscle wasting affects large numbers of people, but few therapeutic approaches exist to treat and/or reverse this condition. The beta(2)-adrenoceptor agonist clenbuterol produces a muscle-specific protein anabolism in both normal and catabolic muscle and has been used to limit muscle wasting in humans. Because clenbuterol appears to interact with or mimic innervation, its effect on the expression of the neurotrophic agents insulin-like growth factor (IGF)-II and H19 and their putative pathways was examined in normal rat plantaris muscle. The results showed that the well-documented early effects of clenbuterol on protein metabolism were preceded by elevated levels of IGF-II and H19 transcripts together with increased phosphorylation of eukaryotic initiation factor (eIF)4E binding protein-1 (4E-BP1) and p70(S6k). By 3 days, transcript levels for IGF-II and H19 and 4E-BP1 and p70(S6k) phosphorylation had returned to control values. These novel findings indicate that clenbuterol-induced muscle anabolism is potentially mediated, at least in part, by an IGF-II-induced activation of 4E-BP1 and p70(S6k).

PMID: 11551843 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Yep...that pretty much sums it up. I'm trying to find a couple of the studies I have regarding clen. Problem is, I have them on paper, so it's a little tougher to find.

I love p70s6k.

Bulldog_10 said:

Yep...that pretty much sums it up. I'm trying to find a couple of the studies I have regarding clen. Problem is, I have them on paper, so it's a little tougher to find.

I love p70s6k.

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See, we can get along. Shit, we actually agree with each other on this one. Rome wasn't built in a day but progress is being made.

Juice Authority said:

See, we can get along. Shit, we actually agree with each other on this one. Rome wasn't built in a day but progress is being made.

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FUCK OFF!!!!
















LOL...just kiddin bro.

Who cares what clen does to rats. I just need to know if I were to use it on it's own without AAS while cutting, would I lose any muscle on a low-cal ckd diet?

for a second i read catholic

Nighthawkk said:

Who cares what clen does to rats. I just need to know if I were to use it on it's own without AAS while cutting, would I lose any muscle on a low-cal ckd diet?

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Normally speaking, yes. On a diet, the body has not been trained to use fat instead of carbs so it burns proteins, which would cause muscle loss. However, Clen is able to help the body uses its own fat as energy instead of muscle proteins so muscle loss on a low-cal diet would be mitigated. The fat burning process is accelerated which mechanically spares our muscles mass. Does that answer your question?

I've seemed to use it with pretty good results, but I don't know for sure if this was contributed solely towards Clen since I usually will run other products at the same time also.

don't worry about the clen profiles and reports and studies...i read all that shit too! i picked up some clen in tj and just experimented with it by itself. i hate that shit. made me shake so bad i couldnt eat french fries, theyd slap me in the face. left me with a bizarre muscle spasm in my quad that lasted a month on and off. but most importantly i found it to be very catabolic, i lost tons of strength that ive never really recovered from since.

RJL is right from a technical standpoint. From a personal standpoint, (that of my own usage and results), clen is not anti-catabolic to any noticeable degree. I found this out the hard way during PCT from my last cycle. Never again.

Juice Authority said:

Normally speaking, yes. On a diet, the body has not been trained to use fat instead of carbs so it burns proteins, which would cause muscle loss. However, Clen is able to help the body uses its own fat as energy instead of muscle proteins so muscle loss on a low-cal diet would be mitigated. The fat burning process is accelerated which mechanically spares our muscles mass. Does that answer your question?

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Yea, thanks. I suppose the best thing to do would be to wait until I can run another cycle to spare as much muscle as possible, possibly tren/var/prop or similar, with clen tossed in at some point. This will have to be a while from now though, as I am almost finished with a 12-week bulker atm.

jubei said:

RJL is right from a technical standpoint. From a personal standpoint, (that of my own usage and results), clen is not anti-catabolic to any noticeable degree. I found this out the hard way during PCT from my last cycle. Never again.

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me too i ran it PC last cycle, and lost waaay to much muscle. i had no idea why either.
never again, always with AAS for me