Just because it doesnt aromatize

Doesnt mean you dont need antiE's. I read all about, this AAS doesnt aromatize etc etc. But Anti-estrogens are not just to stop the steroid from aromatizing. Your body will try to balance out the androgen/estrogen ratio by uping its own increase in estrogen with obvious results. Just a thought after reading the post about gyno with anavar. The other possibility on that post is your anavar was anadrol. haha

Nelson Montana will tell you anti-e's should be avoided. I wish he would stop saying it. I'm with you. I took Nolva even with Anavar. It was Tt brand. How could I be sure it was real Oxandrolone? I don't take chances with gyno. It is emotionally devastating. I am trying to look muscular, not lumpy.

justwannagetsum said:

Doesnt mean you dont need antiE's. I read all about, this AAS doesnt aromatize etc etc. But Anti-estrogens are not just to stop the steroid from aromatizing. Your body will try to balance out the androgen/estrogen ratio by uping its own increase in estrogen with obvious results. Just a thought after reading the post about gyno with anavar. The other possibility on that post is your anavar was anadrol. haha

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Isn't gyno from anavar IGF-1 related?

10 mg/ day of nolvadex would seem wise as a preventative measure. Nothing will ruin an otherwise great chest like gyno. All those bench presses, and can't even take your shirt off. Even if you don't need it, it's relatively cheap and stupid not to keep some on hand IMHO.

jubei said:

10 mg/ day of nolvadex would seem wise as a preventative measure. Nothing will ruin an otherwise great chest like gyno. All those bench presses, and can't even take your shirt off. Even if you don't need it, it's relatively cheap and stupid not to keep some on hand IMHO.

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Exactly. Well put. Why take chances with YOUR body? Let Nelson take chances with HIS body.

The sciense here isn't really accurate.

A steroid which increase DHT (Primo, winny, proviro) CAN NOT aromatize at any dosage. The more DHT you have, the LESS of a chance of getting gyno. It may even CURE the gyno.

Some epoeple get gyno, even with anti-e's. It isnt about taking chances. It's about cycling correctly. And the fact that many people have adverse reactions to anti-e's. That's all.

Once again, look at the BB's from the 60' and 70's -- before anti-e's. You'd be hard pressed to find a case of gyno anywhere.

No estrogen

This shows that sides can be mediated by the rise in hGH the androgen causes and as we saw in the other post that hGH causes hair growth........
Testosterone and oxandrolone, a nonaromatizable androgen, specifically amplify the mass and rate of growth hormone (GH) secreted per burst without altering GH secretory burst duration or frequency or the GH half life.

Author
Ulloa Aguirre A; Blizzard RM; Garcia Rubi E; Rogol AD; Link K; Christie CM; Johnson ML; Veldhuis JD
Address
Instituto Nacional De La Nutricion, Salvador Zubiran, Tlalpan, Mexico.
Source
J Clin Endocrinol Metab, 71(4):846 54 1990 Oct
Abstract

We investigated the mechanisms by which androgens increase mean circulating GH concentrations in boys. We tested two hypotheses: 1) testosterone increases serum GH concentrations at least in part via an androgen receptor mediated mechanism, rather than exclusively by way of aromatization to estrogen; 2) androgen augments one or more specific features to GH secretion (secretory burst number, amplitude, and/or duration) and/or prolongs the half life of GH removal. To examine these hypotheses, prepubertal boys with constitutionally delayed development and/or growth were given injections of testosterone (100 mg monthly; n = 7) or treated with oral oxandrolone, a nonaromatizable androgen (1.25 mg twice daily; n = 5). Pulsatile GH release was studied before and during androgen administration by sampling blood at 20 min intervals for 24 h. The immunoreactive GH time series were subjected to a novel deconvolution technique, which revealed that 1) testosterone and oxandrolone each increased mean (24 h) serum GH concentrations significantly; 2) both androgens augmented the daily endogenous GH secretory rate significantly; 3) increased GH production resulted from a higher mass of GH secreted per burst and a higher maximal rate of GH secretion within each burst; and 4) androgens amplified the magnitude of the nyctohemeral rhythm in the mass (but not frequency) of GH secretory pulses. The observed effects of androgen were specific, since the number and duration of GH secretory bursts and the subject specific GH half life were unaltered by androgen treatment. We conclude that androgen acting apart from conversion to estrogen is capable of specifically activating the somatotropic axis via distinct neuroendocrine secretory mechanisms