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Top Reasons Why Testosterone is a Bad Choice!!

2Thick

2Thick

Elite Mentor
Platinum
EF Logger
This may surprise many people but test is a bad choice for almost all prospective AS users.

And in a no-surprise move, I will recommend Deca as the best anabolic out there for mass, cutting and athletic use.

Here are some well known reasons why test is inferior

1. You will lose half of your gains after a test cycle

2. Test is awful for your prostate and colon

3. Test will make your hair fall out faster than most other compounds

4. Test requires higher and higher dosages to get a decent affect (all along the side effects increase).

5. Test causes gyno faster than almost all other compounds

6. If you use anti-estrogens to protect yourself from the sides listed above, you will be taking away many of the properties that make test good for gains, so it is a lose/lose situation

The list goes on and on.
 
Open wadgobbling hole directly under nose, and spew forth shit...!!!

Ranger
 
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The Ranger said:
Open wadgobbling hole directly under nose, and spew forth shit...!!!

Honestly 2Thick, where do you constantly come up with this non-fact based horseshit??? It never ceases to amaze me...

Ranger
Click to expand...




Oh please...Mr. Moonshine, get up off of that goat you love so much and tell me why I am not exactly right.
 
Not a prob....and he know's he's wrong as usual....

Deca is, and always will be the most over rated, most often faked, non producing AS on the market...it can in no way compare to TEST, and surely not my beloved EQ....

Go back to the circus ya damn midget, live the heavy weights for the big boys....heh heh heh

Ranger
 
HUCKLEBERRY FINNaplex said:
Test sides-Easily controlled.
Deca sides-bend over and hold on for the ride.Limp noodle,banana titties,libido obliterated...
Click to expand...

Test sides are more real than Deca sides are.

A slow down of libido is rare and only caused by too much deca and no tapering. If you cycle smart then you will have the opposite effect (i.e. higher sex drive).

Progesterone gyno is also such a rare occurrence that it isn't even worth mentioning. It is only used like a scary children's story...irrational and highly unlikely to happen.

Plus, don't blame the limp noodle on Deca. Blame your bad genetics...hehehe
 
we haven't had a good debate in a while. I'd like to see some other vets get involved also. It should be good.:D
 
Test is produced naturally in our bodies, and it's what makes us what we are...MEN(in your case I wonder though)

The sides, and more recently with the advent of Liquidex are controlled, and/or elimanited completely

Deca can and will activate the Progest. recepters and bind with them(Gyno) and this is a fact

Deca shuts down natural test which can take months to return to normal

adding deca to a cycle, you now have 2 completely different sides to combat..(why would you want to do this is beyond me)

And how in the fuck do you figure you have to keep upping the dosage of Test to keep gaining...Does this mean Ronnie Cloeman is doing 20 grams per week...next year 30 grams per week??? Christ, this reeks of stupidity....

Ranger
 
deca although a good choice for some can wreak havoc on a large portion of its users. My training partner did his first cycle back years ago with primo/deca/winny at EXTREMELY low doses - got gyno badly had it cut out now has a scar that isn’t so pretty (that scar wasn’t the decas fault but it did cause the gyno). Tell him its that he is so rare its insignificant.

Its no joke that TEST INCREASES Sexual desire something amazing - my first REAL CYCLE (read: it had test in it) and I felt like a 15-year-old boy waking up with wood all night long. deca-dick on the other hand is pretty common and was a side effect suffered by both myself and my training partner 2Thick calls this “hypersensitivity” but there must be 50% of its user that are “hypersensitive” so I don’t know why its called “hyper” anything. My point: I like women, and in reality a part of why I do this is to pull more easily and to stand out at the beach, resorts, and pools – what good is it to look so appealing to the choicest females if you can’t drill them? Point made…

Where-as with TEST you can use supplements to slow/stop hair loss (proscar) - if you used deca with proscar it will actually increase your hair loss vs. using the deca by itself, which does also cause hairloss.

With TEST and Liquidex or Nolvadex you can keep off the water weight pretty easily and still keep that tight ripped look, however with the evil deca you need to add a HARSH ORAL (winny) to try and fight the sides of the deca. So you need something that can be harmful to your liver to protect against the sides of deca. Maybe the deca is mild to most but usually they need to add the expensive and potent winny to the mix to keep safe.

deca is good for a lot of people, TEST is good for everyone. If you going to throw them in the same stack do so, but make TEST the base.

All the above reasons aside - you will gain better with test than you will with deca and that’s the bottom line.
 
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The Ranger said:
Test is produced naturally in our bodies, and it's what makes us what we are...MEN(in your case I wonder though)

The sides, and more recently with the advent of Liquidex are controlled, and/or elimanited completely

Deca can and will activate the Progest. recepters and bind with them(Gyno) and this is a fact

Deca shuts down natural test which can take months to return to normal

adding deca to a cycle, you now have 2 completely different sides to combat..(why would you want to do this is beyond me)

And how in the fuck do you figure you have to keep upping the dosage of Test to keep gaining...Does this mean Ronnie Cloeman is doing 20 grams per week...next year 30 grams per week??? Christ, this reeks of stupidity....

Ranger
Click to expand...

All AS will shut down your natural test (except for a select few) so there is no argument against deca there.

My body also produces bile and HCl, but I don't want to inject that in my body, so that shouldn't be a reason to use Test over Deca.

Deca is rumored to activate progesterone receptors, and there is no conclusive proof that it actually causes progesterone induced side effects...only hearsay.

And about Ronnie Coleman's dosages... you and I would probably die if we used what he uses. Plus he uses other compounds like GH and Insulin along with the mega-doses of test.
 
2Thick, I am interested in your opinion as I am in everyone elses. Are you suggesting a deca only cycle? If you don't stack it with test, what do you recommend?
 
2Thick said:


Test sides are more real than Deca sides are.

A slow down of libido is rare and only caused by too much deca and no tapering. If you cycle smart then you will have the opposite effect (i.e. higher sex drive).

Progesterone gyno is also such a rare occurrence that it isn't even worth mentioning. It is only used like a scary children's story...irrational and highly unlikely to happen.

Plus, don't blame the limp noodle on Deca. Blame your bad genetics...hehehe
Click to expand...

Gee thats funny,only 200mgs/week of deca completely shut me down sexually,that's why they administer this wonderful female steroid as a form of castration to male sex offenders.Kiss your libido and erections bye-bye...

Tell your "myth" quote to all my friends as well as myself.Our nipples will all disagree with that statement.Practically transformed me into Cone-Tit the Barbarian...
 
2Thick said:


Hehehehe:alien:

Well, technically, natural test is much different than synthetic test because natural test performs many other functions than test in an amp.
Click to expand...

That is rediculous. There is no difference between test from your nads and test from a lab.

Tell that to a chemist and he'll fall off his chair laughing at you.

Andy
 
Slopain said:
deca although a good choice for some can wreak havoc on a large portion of its users. My training partner did his first cycle back years ago with primo/deca/winny at EXTREMELY low doses - got gyno badly had it cut out now has a scar that isn’t so pretty (that scar wasn’t the decas fault but it did cause the gyno). Tell him its that he is so rare its insignificant.

2Thick calls this “hypersensitivity” but there must be 50% of its user that are “hypersensitive” so I don’t know why its called “hyper” anything. My point: I like women, and in reality a part of why I do this is to pull more easily and to stand out at the beach, resorts, and pools – what good is it to look so appealing to the choicest females if you can’t drill them? Point made…

Where-as with TEST you can use supplements to slow/stop hair loss (proscar) - if you used deca with proscar it will actually increase your hair loss vs. using the deca by itself, which does also cause hairloss.

With TEST and Liquidex or Nolvadex you can keep off the water weight pretty easily and still keep that tight ripped look, however with the evil deca you need to add a HARSH ORAL (winny) to try and fight the sides of the deca. So you need something that can be harmful to your liver to protect against the sides of deca. Maybe the deca is mild to most but usually they need to add the expensive and potent winny to the mix to keep safe.

deca is good for a lot of people, TEST is good for everyone. If you going to throw them in the same stack do so, but make TEST the base.

All the above reasons aside - you will gain better with test than you will with deca and that’s the bottom line.
Click to expand...

That is very well said. You should be a politician...hehehe

As for Deca, it is the ultimate mass builder. Test causes problems for as many people as Deca causes problems.

Although, liquidex does help with all kinds of sides from test, it also helps with deca sides...so there is no argument there.

I love the way you call Winny EVIL. I feel like you are telling scary stories to children around a camp-fire.

I keep hearing about all of these "training partners" that have problems with deca but nobody (besides hillbilly Ranger) admits to having problems with Deca.

Something smells here...do you smell it Slopain?
 
:D Y'all always put a smile on my face.
I have never tried deca so I will stay out of it. But I have tried TEST and Loved it:)
 
eric123 said:
2Thick, I am interested in your opinion as I am in everyone elses. Are you suggesting a deca only cycle? If you don't stack it with test, what do you recommend?
Click to expand...

I would suggest a mild Deca and Dbol cycle.

Something like this would do wonders:

Deca***Dbol
200****5/day
300****4
300****4
400****3
400
300
300
200
 
HUCKLEBERRY FINNaplex said:


Gee thats funny,only 200mgs/week of deca completely shut me down sexually,that's why they administer this wonderful female steroid as a form of castration to male sex offenders.Kiss your libido and erections bye-bye...

Tell your "myth" quote to all my friends as well as myself.Our nipples will all disagree with that statement.Practically transformed me into Cone-Tit the Barbarian...
Click to expand...

Well that is not exactly the truth. Chemical castration uses progesterone and not nandrolone. Don't mislead people, my test-intoxicated friend.

Plus the nipples are attractive to some girls...hahahahah
 
2Thick said:
Something smells here...do you smell it Slopain?
Click to expand...

I can't smell anymore, thats another side of deca it will randomly deficate on one of your five senses. heh

Seriously Test is my weapon of choice. I actually love winny but don't want to HAVE to use it when I use a steroid (as is the case with deca). For me Deca = no libido and alright gains, with Test however I get huge gains and even huger libido increase.


To each his own.. as long as its test. :D
 
2Thick said:
This may surprise many people but test is a bad choice for almost all prospective AS users.

And in a no-surprise move, I will recommend Deca as the best anabolic out there for mass, cutting and athletic use.

Here are some well known reasons why test is inferior

1. You will lose half of your gains after a test cycle

2. Test is awful for your prostate and colon

3. Test will make your hair fall out faster than most other compounds

4. Test requires higher and higher dosages to get a decent affect (all along the side effects increase).

5. Test causes gyno faster than almost all other compounds

6. If you use anti-estrogens to protect yourself from the sides listed above, you will be taking away many of the properties that make test good for gains, so it is a lose/lose situation

The list goes on and on.
Click to expand...

1. You'll lose half your _weight_ gains because it's water. And if you come off cycle properly you'll keep most of the real gains.
2. True enough, though not to any great degree unless you're always on.
3. Not really. Only a few are any better on your hair, some are worse.
4. False. You only need more of _any_ juice when you go far enough beyond your genetic limit. Test is not special in this regard. You don't "wear out your receptors" or build a tolerence to juice - it just takes more to maintain and gain for a 280pounder than a 220 pounder - period.
5. Deca ain't no gyno-proof roid, either.
6. False.

But you probably knew all this and far more than I do, anyway... Just tryin' to stir up some shit? :)
 
2Thick said:


I would disagree
Click to expand...

Mmmmmmmm-K

Any COHERANT reasoning for why synthetic test is different from natural test?

Let me tell you bro, as a chemisty major, if there is indeed a difference between natural and synthetic test there isn't an instrament, neither analytical or biological that can tell the difference.
 
Andy13 said:


Mmmmmmmm-K

Any COHERANT reasoning for why synthetic test is different from natural test?

Let me tell you bro, as a chemisty major, if there is indeed a difference between natural and synthetic test there isn't an instrament, neither analytical or biological that can tell the difference.
Click to expand...

As a chemsirty major, you should know how synthetic test is created. Now, please tell me how something not of the human body can create the identical compound?
 
I have to admit the best cycle I ever did was a deca, primo winstrol cycle. I have done test cycles but the results have been bloating and zits with nice strength gain, but the Deca Winny Primo was strength, cuts and no acne.
 
2Thick said:
Well if you want to get technical, when referring to these steroid hormones, the word "natural" or "native" should mean "identical to the hormone as made by the body." Source or derivation does not matter.

But I would rather use semantics to pull the chain of a really pissed of chemistry major....hehehehehe...
Click to expand...

Just what about the word "coherant" did you not understand?
 
Do you think the your body benefits in any way from that bile? I mean the bile your body makes not the deca. You know like your body does from test. You aren't suggesting your whole system would not come to a screetching halt without test? Because even you know it would. You also state the test in an amp is different somehow "because natural test performs many other functions than test in an amp" Name two.
How would you know what gains from test would be lost? You have never used it. The guys at the gym tell you about it?
When you use test with the right amount of arimidex your body becomes a mass building machine with no bloat or water retention like deca. Test is twice as effective at building quality mass and it's much safer than deca.
Did you say prostate in the newest in your series of uninformed deca posts? From Life Extension Group...

Many doctors will tell you that testosterone causes prostate disease. The published scientific literature indicates otherwise.

As readers of Life Extension Magazine learned in late 1997, estrogen has been identified as a primary culprit in the development of BPH. (117-119) Estrogen has been shown to bind to SHBG in the prostate gland and cause the proliferation of epithelial cells in the prostate. (124, 182-184) This is corroborated by the fact that as men develop benign prostate enlargement, their levels of free testosterone are plummeting while their estrogen levels remain the same or are rising. As previously discussed, aging men tend to convert their testosterone into estrogen. The published evidence shows that serum levels of testosterone are not a risk factor for developing benign prostate disease. (8,36,41,117-137)

The major concern that has kept men from restoring their testosterone to youthful levels is fear of prostate cancer. The theory is that since most prostate cancer cell lines need testosterone to proliferate, it is better to not replace the testosterone that is lost with aging. The problem with this theory is that most men who contract prostate cancer have low levels of testosterone and the majority of published studies show that serum testosterone levels do not affect one's risk for contracting prostate cancer.

Since the perception is so strong that any augmentation of testosterone can increase the risk of prostate cancer, we did a MEDLINE search on all the published studies relating to serum testosterone and prostate cancer. The appendix at the end of this article provides quotations from the published literature as it relates to the issue of whether testosterone causes prostate disease. Out of 27 MEDLINE studies we found, five indicated that men with higher testosterone levels had a greater incidence of prostate cancer, whereas 21 studies showed that testosterone was not a risk factor. One study was considered neutral. The score was therefore:

21 studies indicating testosterone does not cause prostate cancer


versus

5 studies indicating testosterone causes prostate cancer

(and one study that did not produce significant results)

Give it up
 
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2Thick said:


Why are you so angry? Anger is very catabolic...as a chemistry major ahould know.:p
Click to expand...

Who said anything about me being angry? I just called you out. That's all. You said there is a difference between natural and synthetic test.. The fact is there is no difference other than origin, which means nothing.
 
2thick

if you take an entry level course of organic chemistry you will eventually learn that on the molecular level synthetic and natural tests are identical in every way.

i dont know why mods are debating with you on the whole deca topic, you are obviously wrong and i think you know you are wrong and just keeping this argument going for no apperent reason
 
serge said:
2thick

if you take an entry level course of organic chemistry you will eventually learn that on the molecular level synthetic and natural tests are identical in every way.

i dont know why mods are debating with you on the whole deca topic, you are obviously wrong and i think you know you are wrong and just keeping this argument going for no apperent reason
Click to expand...

Thank you for your input. It will be noted and dealt with accordingly.
 
Damn y'all are still at it.:) Everyone must be on summer cyles right now.
Personally I don't think anyone is right or wrong. Everyone on this board as there own opinion b/c of there own experience and thats why this board is very unique. Also I love when there are TEST and DECA WARS!!!
I'm suprise(sp) E2 didnt' join in and make fun of your recommended cycle you gave out 2Thick. LOL (I'm a fan of light cycles myself)
:D
 
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I have never tried Deca so I can't say anything positive or negative on it but I LOVE TEST, I love the way I feel on it, I love the sex drive, and I love the size :D
2Thick, I gotta know, what is your back routine ?

M18
 
I would have to agree that test is superior to deca, but deca is a close second and has it's place.

Test is good shit: Gains are faster, more impressive, it's a faster gradification than deca, sex drive through the roof, mentally you feel like a champ...ect ect.

But test has it's drawbacks too: Bloating, larger loss of gains due to water retention, more acne, BAD for prostate (there's always conflicting studies but it's general knowledge that test/dht are the main culprits in BPH as well as (which brings me to my main pont) Male pattern baldness)!

This I think is deca's main advantage...it will not accelerate MPB like other roids (especially test!), and to me this is a HUGE thing. May not be for some guys but I dread going bald, and if you are predisposed to mpb and using test (with or without finasteride) you WILL go bald faster.

Part of the reason we juice is to LOOK BETTER. To me hair is a huge part of looking good, and I would much rather be small than bald.

If it weren't for deca I would have no way to put on mass without comprimising the hair. Deca does a pretty decent job at putting on noticeable mass but you have to be more responsible with diet, where test you can be lazier.

Deca's drawbacks (IMO): Being as I use it by itself the number one problem I have with deca is that it makes me angry/depressed/anxiety ridden, like no other. I now know what it feels like to be a chick with PMS everyday! Compared to test mentally deca sux.

I think you gain more fat with deca because on deca you have to eat bad to get the needed calories and protien. I think it's almost impossible to eat clean and still get the needed calories and protien. So now I'm stuck with higher BF and a slight gut whcih I have to work off somehow later.

2thick,

how the hell can i fight off the irratibility and anger that i get? would RU486 help? do you have the same problem?

If it weren't for fucken MPB I would be a test maniac, but for now i'm stuck with nandralone so it's better than nothing, a lot better.

My hope is that they will cure mpb and I can use test again like i used to.
 
Well, I have to risk getting flamed here somewhat by supporting 2 Thick. I believe deca has gotten a really bad rap as of late, withy the excessive hysteria over progestogeneic sides and such. Personally, I've used both test and deca and on a mg for mg basis I know test is more effective at building muscle due to it's superior anabolic effect. On the other hand, I feel deca is far superior to just about any other mild or moderately androgenic androgen out there at promoting muscle gains and strength. Is it as anabolic as test, tren or orals like D-bol and anadrol? No. But as far as the benefits to costs are concerned, I'd always opt for nandrolone instead of test. If one were to not use any anti-estrogens with test, you would most likely hold a shitload more fluid than deca and have a higher risk of acquiring gyno. Plus test has the tendency to be harsh on the hair as well as the skin and finasteride doesn't have much of an effect on type 1 DHT which affects the skin and leads to acne and boddy hair formation. With deca, I and no one I've ever known has ever had a problem with acne and personally I've never suffered from the overly stereotyped 'deca dick,' even without simulataneous use with test. And if you add winstrol, due to it's anti-progestogenic effects (and winny is very effective at blocking progesterone as far as I'm concerned) one most likely does not have to worry about falling victim to decreased libido or gyno, and nandrolone is not hard on the hair either, so nothing has to be added to inhibit hair loss with its use. With test, if you're prone to hair loss, you must take either a 5-alpha reductase inhibitor such as finasteride or azleic acid and it would also be wise to throw in other compounds such as the anti-androgen spirinolactone and nizoral, etc... Cause nothing is more detrimental to the hairline than test without something to block DHT conversion. Kind of a hassle if you ask me. And muscle and strength gains from deca are far superior on a mg for mg basis compared to EQ (which is sooooooo overrated) and primo (which is a good anabolic with minimal side effects, but is relatively pretty weak and usually impractical due to its cost). Plus deca is not hard on the system either, although test also is pretty easy on the body, but may have detrimental effects on the prostate with excessive use. So all I'm saying is deca is a very worthwhile compound that does have possible side effects, but they can easily be controlled. But I will concur that nandrolone used by itself (without either winstrol and\or at least test) sucks and is just asking for trouble, whereas test can be very effective on it's own. So I'm not trying to argue that it's a more effective androgen than test, but if you want to keep certain superficial side effects to a minimum and don't want to spend extra cash on all kinds of supplementary products (DHT blockers, inhibitors and anti-estrogens) then nandrolone is the better choice. But if you want more bang for your buck (more muscle gained) and don't give a shit about possibly losing hair, getting severe acne and excessive body hair growth and increased water retention (all which can be controlled, but again can get quite expensive) then test is for you. I've done mass cycles with and without test thrown in and I've had success either way, so test is not the must have base androgen in every mass cycle like some people would like you to beleive. You can definitely substitute other highly androgenic compounds in its place such as D-bol or trenbolone and get great results. Everyone is different in how they react to androgens and what side effects they are prone to, as well as what their overall goals are. You want to be a model or a pretty boy? Go with deca. If you want to be a freak at all costs then I'd say test as a base for the majority of your cycles is most likely mandatory or at the very least very practical due to the results it usually gives its users and the relatively low price of it. My .02 cents.
 
BigJay81 said:
:google:
Test Is Cheaper!!!!!!:D
Click to expand...

LMAO - I love your input Jay - simple and straight forward...test is cheaper so who cares about the deca crap...

(not flaming 2thick, though - made a good case, but lost...)
 
alternative to deca and test

I really think that test (if not overused) is a very good choice for all AS users. But if you're scared about it, and want a good stack without sides and good results, try this :
EQ for anabolic effects instead of deca
masteron instead of test
add some anavar if you want great progress in strength, too.
No testicular shrinkage, no gyno, no liver toxicity; It could only enlarge your prostate and accelerate baldness.
Up the EQ for mass, or masteron for cutting.
I'm currently on this stack for the end of my cycle (began w. sust/EQ/winnie) and I plan to use it again (bigger doses) for the next one.
 
OK, time to shoot down the TEST club......

Usual BS arguments aside:

1. Deca has LESS SIDES than test.
2. IT HAS A HIGHER ANABOLIC ACTIVITY


(This OF COURSE is when Deca is ADDED to
mifepristone(RU-486) and Test is added to
anastrozole.)

Your whole argument is flawed because you're
comparing TEST STACKED(I repeat STACKED)
with anastrozole while Deca isn't
stacked with anything. Its by itself.

How would test fare by ITSELF? Lets see.....

1. 20-30% of users using would get Gyno
Have you ever heard of someone getting
gyno from 400-600mg of Deca/week???????
I can assure you its less than the number of fingers
on my hand.

2. Your hair would fall out in tatters.....
Test converts to DHT QUITE READILY
What about nandrolone?
It converts to Di-hydro Nadrolone(DHN)
which is FAR, FAR, FAR less nasty
on the hairline.

3. What about anabolic activity?

Would you gain the same amount of muscle from
400mgs/week Test as 400mgs/week Deca???

The answer is A BIG FAT NO. With the Deca you'd gain quality
lean mass, while with the test you'd get some fat+
muscle + LOTS of water.

NO CONTEST.

BY itself Deca far out-shines Test. I STRESS by itself.

BTW, 2Thick, Chemically speaking, Andy13 is right.
"natural test" and "synthetic" test are molecularly
and iso-morphically exactly the same.
(iso-morphically=spatial orientation of the molecules btw.
(in case you're wondering))

Godspeed
 
I like both

but I agree with Fonz. When not stacked Deca has less ugly sides for most.

It is personal preference really. It comes down to what you want and what you can live with. If you gain well from deca and don't get any nasty sides like deca dick (or if the sides just plain don't matter because you don't currently have a girlfriend...hehe) then deca is great. If you just like to be big and strong, water weight or not, and are not susceptible to hairloss or acne then test is great too.

While deca is easier on the hairline for most, it can accelerate baldness in those susceptible.

If only I could stack test and deca I would.:(
 
i am with you DCS in this "Fight of the Titans"

"the only good roids for me are primo, winstrol, masteron, anavar, and some eq (and also, a little known thing by the name of andractim). "

Especially when you are older.

And Primo is great, but Oxandrolone is greater.

I hate to say this 2Thick, but already when taking 400 mgr/Deca a week, i get sore nipples and this after 2 weeks.
 
Fonz,

I hate to point this out, but quite alot of the Deca gains are in fact IM fat storage, and as for RU-486, while I do not dispute the validity of it's use...it is rare, if not impossible to obtain in the US....and for the price it would go for, you have to ask yourself....Is it worth the risk and price??

EQ is MUCH cheaper, acts along the same pathway as Deca, very low water retention, only aromatizes into a simple estrogen, sides are easily avoided if not completely dropped....using common sense, EQ would produce much better quality gains over Deca....any day of the week....:)

Ranger
 
Ranger,

EQ is less anabolic than Deca. Don't get me wrong, you'll
get more vascular on EQ than on Deca(I'm currently
on EQ), but you don't gain anywhere near the same amount of
muscle as Deca.
In as far as the IM fat storage is concerned, thank your
lucky stars Decaman isn't here because both of us
already disagreed with that point over at AF.
As an explanation:
DECA is progestenic, therefore it increases glucose
clearance through an increase in the GDP6-enzyme
(Glucose transporter).
It doesn't increase fat-burning IT INCREASES GLUCOSE
OXIDATION LEADING THE BODY TO BURN MORE
FAT FOR FUEL. I stress the word "BURN" not "STORE".

That IM fat story is just another Urban Legend that sources
use to sell more test. :) :)

In as far as the RU-486:

How expensive was the arimidex when it first came out?

Answer is: TOO EXPENSIVE!!!!!

Its just a question of time until the RU price goes down.
You also have to take into account it is A FAR MORE
restricted drug than anastrozole, and is also far
newer.(Just got approved by the FDA).

Godspeed
 
Whether or not the IM fat thing is true, if it were, I would see it as a good thing. It does not look like sub-q fat and would add size that looks exactly like muscle from the outside. Nothing wrong with a "well-marbled" pair of pecs!
 
Even though I'm obviously not a big tet fan, I have to back
up what IG is saying.

Yet another myth: With Test you lose half your gains!!

BIG FAT NO.

With TEST, you gain Water+MUSCLE+ some fat(inevitable
and this laso applies to all other steroids in bulking cycles).

When you come off the test, the inter-stitial water retention
(estrogen-induced edema) is reduced to nil YOU LOSE THE
EXTRA WATER INSIDE YOU MUSCLES!!!!!

YOU DO NOT LOSE MUSCLE. The contractile tissue
you have gained is there, it does not simply fade away
(unless you go cold turkey).

Truthfully, you'll lose some muscle(3-4lbs) over the next
3-4 weeks as your test level is DRASTICALLY
lowered, but this is almost inevitable.

People confuse the increased muscle GIRTH from the
water retention for muscle. THIS IS SIMPLY NOT TRUE.

This is why I like anabolics-only, they don't "swell you up",
they simply increase muscle.

Also, test-users are more likely to suffer from post-cycle
depression due to the aforementioned reasons above.

Godspeed
 
2Thick and FONZ
at it again.

Now look I realize that you two are rather scientifically adept (or is the inept :p ), but sometimes the conclusions that you jump to are slightly ridiculous.


1. IM fat Storage is not a myth- if you would like I will find the studeis that show that progesterone and its derivatives increase IM fat.

2. Deca is not as anabolic as test- it's activity is limited to almost solely the AR- aside from its progestenic effects.

3. In certain ethnicities DECA and other progestenic steroids produce TREMENDOUS IM fat gains- mainly in those of african descent (though not only african descent)

4. Deca induced impotence is REAL- if you would like I can repost all the data on the effects of progestin on libido and sexual performance- including the fact that a nor-testesterone derivative is used for chemical castrastion and evidence that Nor-plant severely depresses libido in women (especially african americans).


5. Hair- cant really argue here- test is harder on the hair- WHEN USED ALONE- with the appropriate additions it is easier on the hair (additions that cannot be used with deca)


6. Gyno- do we really have to go into this again?

7. What is this nonsense about synthetic test being different from natural test?

8. with respect to mifeprestone, I really dont want to get into this discussion again :p


peace
btw- TEST IS KING
 
BTW- with respect to the HPTA, Nandralone suppression can last up to 13 months- there are a couple of nice australian studies(where its used as birth control)

peace
 
Once again from the Mountains of the Titians, the Dark One cometh....

And he spake unto the masses of the evil that spoils our Brotherhood(Deca)....Unto my Brothers....Heed his words, for he does speak the truth.

His knowledge cometh from The Ancient Mountains where TEST doth flow like rivers, and ALL the gains are reaped by those who listen and go forth unto this uneducated world and preach forth his Gospel!!!

Do NOT be misled by non-believers(2Thick & Fonz) Hear his words O Brother's....Heed them and GROW....Heed them not....

YOU GET NO DICK AND GROW BIG FAT TITTIES....:D :D :D

Heh heh heh....God Macro, sometimes you are too KHULE....A little scary, but I'd still hit the GHB and party with ya...:D

Ranger
 
LOL Ranger, but you have to admit that

2THICK as big balls to put a topic on like this, knowing he has to face the crowd almost alone. Since only Fonz defended him and Decaman is probably on vacation.
 
Has anyone REALLY used RU-486??? I mean, just about everyone throws the term around. I dont think we can even consider this a factor until it becomes more available.

And as far as the deca vs test debate goes...

More muscle gain, deca is better. NOt only on a mg/mg basis but ESPECIALLY on a molar scale. It has a much higher affinity for the AR and hence leads to more muscle gain. It's affinity for 5a-dehydrogenase is also lesser than testosterone's affinity... Comnine that also with it's affinity for the AR and you have much less DHN made than DHT from test.

Now with that said, if you are willing to combat the sides of deca, than that should be your choice. We should compare muscle building effects with muscle building effects, and sides with sides. If you are not prone to MPB, then you wont take that into consideration, if you have to take drug tests, then you have to take THAT into consideration.. Etc


Bottom line, most guys choose aas based on which sides they have...

And I still think TA is by far the #1 aas available.

Andy
 
What could Decaman do???? He's 323 years old and hasn't had pussy, since pussy had him...

Goes to show ya what Deca can do....heh heh heh

Ranger
 
2thick, so you're not a test advocate, but all tests are not created equal. Would you say your allegations hold true for the long-acting sust? Specificly, losing HALF your gains???
 
Andy13 said:
Has anyone REALLY used RU-486??? I mean, just about everyone throws the term around. I dont think we can even consider this a factor until it becomes more available.
Click to expand...

Fonz has use RU-486 on his cycle where he ran a gram of Deca a week.

M18
 
see that the nandrolones have 80% less of an effect on the prostate but had 240% greater anabolic effects on skeletal muscle!! Could this be why so many bodybuilders love deca??????i dont know but test is great...And Testosterone, is the most important androgen...Testosterone is a more potent anabolic than Deca.......Testosterone has more conversion to estrogen than Deca Durabolin does, even though Deca Durabolin is made from an estrogen...Testosterone is the only anabolic steroid of which I am sure that if you use enough, you will get maximum anabolic effect: no need to stack anything else because all bases are covered..:)..... because of problems with testosterone regarding both conversion to estrogen and DHT..just the facts on both....:) not usre which one i like but test sounds great:)
 
I have used both by themselves and I like the results of test better. Deca did put a serious crimp in my sex drive. This was before I ever heard of Deca Dick.

If you are used to having a couple of zesty sessions a week and all of a sudden you don't get the same urges for about 6 weeks, and it coincides wth your Deca only cycle, I think that for me Deca seriously lowers my sex drive. I could still perform, I just wasn't the one initiating it.

Now I use Deca with Winny and Test with Proviron and Nolvadex (soon Liquidex).

Every one of my cycles has at least 250mg test per week to keep my Johnson alive and willing.

This is just my personal experience.
 
athlete03 said:
2thick, so you're not a test advocate, but all tests are not created equal. Would you say your allegations hold true for the long-acting sust? Specificly, losing HALF your gains???
Click to expand...


I was being facetious when I said that. I was talking about mostly water and some muscle loss. But , if you cycle the test correctly and time the esters for maximal gains and minimal sides, it can end up very well.
 
Test is the grand daddy of all muscle building compounds, my ball dont produce deca do yours?
you have lost over half your gains post cycle bro you never heard of clomid or hcg? you should do a search homie there is some pretty good info around if you stop and read it. IMOP ill take a slow acting test over deca anyday bro.:fro:
 
i can trully say I never heard of deca dick till I started coming to this board, alot of deca haters, so no wonder something was started about it:)

I did one cycle without deca before, and I can honestly say, never again. I will always have deca in a cycle

I did a cycle without test, and still did good, so I can say I would do it again without test only if I couldn't get any test.

I love both deca and test, and try to use both in every cycle. But one thing is for sure deca is my favorite!!!!!!

As far as the primo, its awesome to, little water and keeps me tight and cut.
 
Shit... I miss work for a few days, and this MEGA-DISCUSSION is kickin'.

Although I'm not a super-guru when it comes to all of this technical shit, I can offer my own experience. I grow very, very well off of EQ. It's the best steroid I have ever personally used.
Among Testosterones, I've used Enanthate, Cypionate, and Sustanon. None of which caused the growth that Equipose does.
I'm not saying Test doesn't work. I'd just rather spend my money on EQ, and use a mild dosage of test with it. After this 1 gram of EQ a week cycle, I'll be using Deca and D-bol for the next 6-10 weeks.

So 2Thick... here's my question for you... this is only my second experience with Deca, and I was wondering if you'd suggest hitting at 300 mgs a week, 450 mgs a week, or 600 mgs a week.
I'll be taking 50 mgs a day of d-bol with it, for the first 5 weeks.

And for the guys who don't really like the Deca... is it based off of some sort of popular vote from the Anti-Nandrolone Clubhouse (ANC)? Or is it from personal experiences?

Test caused gyno in me very quickly. And I am sort of fearful from the Deca, as I have nothing to combat the sides, nor could I afford it.

I hear from this post that you can get it from 200 mgs a week, and some don't get it from much higher dosages.

This whole thing confuses the shit right out of me... because it's coming from two totally different sides.
Those who absolutely hate Deca, and those who praise it.

I'm just wondering if I'd respond very well to Deca, since I grow better off EQ than I do test.
 
Last edited:
bigbrother, I think it is more like this for some users. I can tell there are some new users on the board the jump on the bandwagon, when they here deca sucks they think deca sucks. I would say only 10% people on this board say good things about deca. It is my favorite and always was. I think deca and test are like the Ford and Chevy wars that are going on(mustang and camaro)
So whatever driver drives the one the other one sucks, I haven't ment one diehard racing freak, that says both z28's and mustangs are awesome!!! Same thing with deca and test to me, but I will be the one to admit I love them both but deca to me wins hands down!!!
 
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