CLOMID what, why & How

[Shinobi]

Realgains did u write this article? Im asking cause it looks so familiar and you mentioned Bill Llewellyn... I think he wrote the Anabolics 2000
Another ? Why would you use Nolva only post cycle? It only blocks estrogen and does nothing to bring back your testes

 

[Zyglamail]

Well, lets face it anything we take is just a bandaid to hopefully speed recovery, in the end for the body to normalize it will just take time. There are too many variable I feel to say one method works best.

In regards to clomid, it will raise LH and in turn test not only in oligozoospermic and normospermic men.

The effect of clomiphene citrate on sex hormone binding globulin in normospermic and oligozoospermic men.

Adamopoulos DA, Vassilopoulos P, Kapolla N, Kontogeorgos L.

The effect of clomiphene citrate (CG) on sex hormone binding globulin (SHBG) was studied in 10 oligozoospermic patients with varicocele and 6 normospermic men. Plasma SHBG, testosterone (T), oestradiol (E2), FSH, LH, Prolactin (Prl), thyroxine (T4) and 17-OH-progesterone (17-OH-P) were determined before and during medication. SHBG concentration rose from 38.1 +/- 18.3 to 54.3 +/- 16.0 nmol/l (P less than 0.01), while T and E2 showed significant increases from 31.2 +/- 10.8 nmol/l and 24.6 +/- 5.4 pg/ml to 52.0 +/- 3.6 and 43.3 +/- 14.9, respectively in the oligozoospermic patients, with similar rises noted in the normospermic men. FSH, LH and 17-OH-P were markedly elevated while on CC, but Prl and T4 remained unchanged. The findings of this study indicated the CC causes an increase of SHBG concentration, which is probably related to the rise of E2 concentration. This SHBG change, combined with the intrinsic oestrogenic activity of CC might be one of the factors responsible, through a decrease of free T and a T to E2 imbalance, for the lack of significant effect on parameters of seminal quality in so treated patients.

 

[Ulter]

I experience visual disturbances and headaches on clomid. I started taking it right before i went to bed and had no real problems. From my understanding i am not risking any permanent damage. Would anyone disagree? Just want to ask some of the experts here to make sure... appreciate it.

That's right, you won't cause any damage.

 

[Realgains]

Re: Re: CLOMID what, why & How

I have no idea where you pulled that from, but it is utter nonsense.

Clomiphene will only elevate your test levels to the upper normal range if they are low.

Fonz

I can't get the damn link to come up but here is a quote from a good study listed on PubMed.com


"After CC(clomiphene citrate) administration, mean serum total T and non-SHBG-bound levels in young men increased by 100% & 304% respectively..."

These were normal men that were not coming off roids.

RG

 

[Realgains]

Realgains did u write this article? Im asking cause it looks so familiar and you mentioned Bill Llewellyn... I think he wrote the Anabolics 2000
Another ? Why would you use Nolva only post cycle? It only blocks estrogen and does nothing to bring back your testes

Bill wrote the article in the link bro...I wish I had half his brains.

Yes he wrote Ananbolics 2000 and Anabolics 2002..I bet 2004 will be even better.

Bill does recommend HCG but only in several large shots post cycle with clomid spread out over many days. That will work but will likely delay HPTA recovery....but he is worried that daily shots during the cycle will desensitize the testes to LH. See my HCG post.

Nolva works in the same way as clomid bro as both block the inhibitory affect of estrgen at the hypothalamus and thus speed recovery.

RG

 

[Ulter]

They were healthy other than the fact that they had low test levels. Clomid will not and arimidex will not and nolva will not raise your test levels above normal.

I saw this posted in a rant by Bill's ex-partner and it bears repeating. Bill L got most of his information right here 3 years ago when this board was in it's renaissance period. Unfortunately he didn't grow in knowledge along with the rest of the community and is still stuck in the 90's with his beliefs.

 

[nandi12]

Ulter, have you ever heard of the Clomiphene Challenge Test? It is a routine procedure performed by doctors to test the HPA:

http://www.merck.com/pubs/mmanual/section19/chapter269/269g.htm

"Clomiphene citrate test: Clomiphene citrate is a weak estrogen that inhibits the binding of estradiol on estrogen receptors and does not stimulate receptor activation. Because estradiol is an important inhibitor of serum gonadotropin secretion, receptor occupancy by clomiphene causes decreased negative feedback on gonadotropin secretion by circulating estrogens.The normal adult response to clomiphene citrate, 100 mg po bid, is a 50 to 250% increase in LH, a 30 to 200% increase in FSH, and a 30 to 200% increase in testosterone These increases are impaired or are absent in hypothalamic or pituitary disorders."

There is no question that clomid raises testosterone levels in normal healthy males.

Here is another abstract of interest:

J Clin Endocrinol Metab 1987 Dec;65(6):1118-26

The effects of aging in normal men on bioavailable testosterone and luteinizing hormone secretion: response to clomiphene citrate.

Tenover JS, Matsumoto AM, Plymate SR, Bremner WJ.

Geriatric Research, Education, and Clinical Center, Veterans Administration Medical Center, Seattle, Washington.


Serum testosterone (T) levels in men decline with age while serum LH levels, as measured by RIA, increase. To assess if the decline in serum T levels in healthy aging men is paralleled by an age-related decline in the bioavailable non-sex hormone-binding globulin (SHBG)-bound fraction of T and to determine whether there are age-related changes in LH secretion or LH control of T production, we studied 29 young (aged 22-35 yr) and 26 elderly (aged 65-84 yr) healthy men . All men had single random blood samples drawn, and 14 men in each age group underwent frequent blood sampling for 24 h, both before and after 7 days of clomiphene citrate (CC) administration. Both mean 24-h serum total T levels and non-SHBG-bound T were reduced in elderly men compared to those in young men (P less than 0.05), while estradiol and SHBG levels were similar in the 2 age groups. Serum FSH determined by RIA and LH by RIA and bioassay were higher in the elderly men compared to those in young men (P less than 0.05), but the ratios of LH bioactivity to immunoreactivity and the LH pulse frequency and amplitude were similar. After CC administration, mean serum total T and non-SHBG-bound levels in young men increased by 100% and 304%, respectively, while in older men these values increased by only 32% and 8%, respectively. However, CC-stimulated LH pulse characteristics and serum levels of estradiol, SHBG, FSH, and bioactive and immunoreactive LH were similar in the 2 groups. Thus, both at baseline and after CC stimulation, elderly men had significantly lower serum total T and non-SHBG-bound (bioavailable) T levels than did young men, despite similar or increased levels of bioactive LH and similar bioactive to immunoreactive LH ratios and LH pulse characteristics. These results suggest that major age-related changes in the hypothalamic-pituitary-testicular axis occur at the level of the testes and are manifested by decreased responsiveness to bioactive LH. Administration of CC to young and elderly men resulted in similar changes in LH pulse characteristics and LH bioactivity and immunoreactivity, suggesting preserved hypothalamic-pituitary responsiveness in the elderly.

 

[Ulter]

Ok thanks Nandi. I will have to do more research into why this increase doesn't occur in my own test levels or any of those patients at Dr Scruggs office. He is saying that this is not what he has observed.

 

[Zyglamail]

Ok thanks Nandi. I will have to do more research into why this increase doesn't occur in my own test levels or any of those patients at Dr Scruggs office. He is saying that this is not what he has observed.

Ulter, is Scruggs checking levels when people run clomid post cycle or on those who are using clomid AFTER HPTA has recovered? The abstracts above point to normal men, who are not trying to recover from AAS use.

 

[Fonz]

The abstracts above point to normal men, who are not trying to recover from AAS use.

Exactly.

Fonz