E2 Help and Coversation with Endo

[Aog200]

Gents hoping you can assist me in a conversation with my Endo. For some background:

Sex: Male
Age: 30
Height: 5'9
Weight: 180
BF: ~13%

I'm not on TRT and have never cycled gear. I did a superdrol based PH about 7 years ago w/o proper PCT and was shutdown pretty hard, but managed to recover (thankfully).

About a year ago I went to go see my GP with low-T like symptoms (fatigue, lethargy, depression, concentration issues, irritability, low libido, etc.) Labs came back "in-range," but I was low-normal at 366 Total T @ 29yrs old. He never looked at Estrogen, but SHBG was high-normal. He said I wasn't a candidate for TRT based on the cut-offs and age and we both decided to try some lifestyle changes first. I changed up my diet (more fat), been sleeping better (melatonin), lifting better (heavy compound work), getting more sun etc

Fast forward to a few months ago, did blood work again and Total T was up to 802. Unfortunately, many of the issues didn’t really resolve. I thought the answer was to try to boost T some more so I started on an OTC stack of DAA, ErasePro, and LeanExtreme. After 6 weeks I started noticing some nipple puffiness and sensitivity which got me spooked (I HAD pubescent gyno and had surgery for it 5 years ago, the entire gland wasn't removed for contouring purposes so re-growth / flare ups can happen.) I dropped all the supps at this point hoping things would stabilize. I went back on ErasePro after week when the symptoms didn't abate and threw in some Inhibit P as well.

Two weeks after initial gyno symptoms, I went see an Endo for a comprehensive blood panel and perhaps get a script for a SERM or AI. Got the results this morning and again everything is "normal:"

•TESTOSTERONE,FREE - 124.9 Range: 35.0-155.0 - pg/mL
•TESTOSTERONE,TOTAL - 766 Range: 250-1100 - ng/dL
•Prolactin - 3 Range: 3-17 - ng/ml
•ESTRADIOL - 36 Range: < OR = 39 - pg/mL
Total estrogens are still pending.

Worth noting: I had ingested ErasePro and Inhibit P roughly 36 hours before the blood was drawn. I expressed concern over this to the doc but he dismissed it saying the compounds would've cleared my system already.

My concern is that given my history (pubescent gyno), what I thought were Low-T symptoms (last year + currently), and recent on-going gyno scare, I think my estrogen is still too high, even though it’s in range.

I've read anecdotally that men should shoot for a Test/Estro ratio of 30-40 and even as high as 50 to 1. I'd like to make a case to my endo that's backed by some science and I'm hoping you guys (being much better read than I am) can point me to some resources.

The endo is telling me everything is “fine,” while I sit here scratching my nipples.

Thanks for reading

 

[Zyglamail]

Well, your estradiol is what it is because your test is over 800, the two go hand in hand. To be quite honest, being off the T enhancers for a couple days makes your labs in essence worthless because you have no idea what your unmedicated values are. That being said, trying to make a case that your E is too high when you dont even know what it really is doesnt make any sense. Yes, the supps may have been out of your system but it takes more time than a couple days for T and E levels normalize.

Stay off the T boosting sups for a good 4-6 weeks and gets labs again, then you will really know what you are dealing with.

As far as your lethargy goes and lowish normal T levels, my guess is your thyroid is a bit sluggish and labs wont prove anything unless you have some historical data to compare recent labs to. Read the sticky at top of forum here "young and low T".

 

[Aog200]

Zyg, thanks for the thoughts. Just to clarify, my test was 802 natty and before trying the DAA. It was 766 after. My concern about the E2 at this point is primarily because I'm dealing with nipple puffiness and sensitivity. I don't feel any lumps under either nipple, so I believe what I've got is just pseudo-gyno which should mean it's still reversible with meds. To add to the E2 narrative, I've always stored fat in my chest and lower abdomen. I agree that it would be better to wait for stabilized labs but aren't I taking a risk by just letting this fester?

Regarding the thyroid function being a possible culprit for some of the other symptoms. I've asked both the GP and Endo about it (I have a family history of thyroid issues) and they've both brushed it off.

My most recent labs:
TOTAL T3 - 1.01 Range: 0.75-1.78 - ng/mL
TSH - 0.71 Range: 0.40-4.00 - uIU/mL

January(Natty) Labs:
TSH 0.68 0.40-4.50 mIU/L

TSH certainly looks low.

Thanks again for your help, I really appreciate it.

 

[Zyglamail]

For you E control I would recommend DIM and calcium D-glucarate. These will both help your body metabolize E better naturally. I would also recommend jarrow B-right 2x a day (its a b complex).

As for your tsh numbers, labs for thyroid function are a crap shoot at best. Docs are no good at nutritional troubleshooting, they dont have the patience, education, desire or even the ability since much of what they do is dictated by insurance. Regardless of your labs, your symptoms would indicate otherwise and Suffice it to say most people are deficient in one or both of the major nutrients needed for proper thyroid function. (ie selenium and iodine).

Iodine is used by a lot more than just the thyroid but also sex organs, skin and basically every tissue in the body.