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low carbs vs carb cycling
- Thread starter Nomak666
- Start date
cobracock1979
Member
Cycling as a lack of glycogen in muscle is proven to hinder growth.
i like cycling too. i have heard that the pros use high gi carbs on their high days. its harder to eat 800grams of oatmeal, brown rice, sweet potatoes then it is for white bread bagels white rice, etc. and heres a good article on refeeds and leptin
Refeeds and Leptin
Refeeds are typically done while cutting; that is, creating a caloric deficit so your body is forced to rely on fat as an energy source. Most people on any low carb diet---i.e. less than 1 gram per pound of bodyweight per day----or implementing any extreme caloric deficit should incorporate a refeed.
Refeeds are used to raise Leptin, refill muscle and liver glycogen, as well as providing sanity release from dieting as your body is temporarily thrown into a state of metabolic balance. Please read Par Deus's first article on Leptin and its benefits:
http://magazine.mindandmuscle.net/ma...D=51&issueID=3
A Quick, Layman’s Explanation of Leptin:
Leptin is considered an anti-starvation/metabolic balance hormone. As your Leptin levels decrease, the signal is sent to inform that your body is going into starvation mode. As your body goes into starvation mode we all know what happens---your fat loss slows down immensely or in some cases to a screeching halt. So in order to kick fat loss into gear again, you need to raise Leptin.
Common sense dictates that the body seeks balance, and if you endeavor to upset that balance---you have to outwit your body. We were built for survival, and unfortunately for the fitness/bodybuilding-oriented folk, “survival” didn’t mean 170 pounds of ripped mass at 6% bodyfat.
I can’t count have many people have asked this the question of why they lost fat after cheating. They have been so good and clean on their diets for weeks and results slowed down, they got frustrated, they cheated and 2 days later woke up lighter and leaner than before the cheat. Main reason right there, they raised Leptin. Raising Leptin levels will give your body the kick-start it needs for the next few days to keep you out of starvation mode as you diet. As long as your body is out of starvation mode, the faster the fat loss, and the less likely you are to lose LBM, while suffering on all counts in the process. Like I said above, this a brief explanation and there is so much info on Leptin so please read Par’s articles for a more detailed and scientific explanation.
Eat Your Way Out of Metabolic Hell
So, now you are probably thinking, "How do I increase Leptin?” Ready for this...........Eat lots of Carbs. I'm not necessarily talking slow burning carbs here either folks. I know, most of you reading this right now are thinking is she talking about? Simple explanation: The way to raise Leptin is to actually spill over into your fat cells.
Yes, I said it, SPILL OVER!! In order to fill your muscle glycogen you need carbs, once your glycogen stores are full, you are now spilling over into your fat cells. 1 Step Backwards for 2 Steps Forward. Remember folks you can't get fat in 1 day. This is not a new method of fat loss either. Bodybuilders are doing this everywhere and with fantastic results. A Refeed Day is NOT and I repeat NOT a cheat day. There are rules to this that should be followed to avoid gaining fat during the refeed
Typically a refeed is done every 4-5 days, although the frequency of the refeeds can be adjusted to suit the person. The lower the caloric deficit you've managed to create, and the lower your BF%, the more often you should refeed. Why? Because your leptin levels plummet as your calories drop and your bodyfat decreases; remember, we want to stay out of starvation mode.
How do you know when you should refeed more often, or less often? Unfortunately, it’s a personal process of trial and error; no two people are alike, and the general refeed plan is just that---general. If you find yourself constantly obsessed with food, and if you’re losing a significant amount of muscle and strength, you may have to refeed more often (perhaps every 2 to 3 days).
A refeed may also be shorter or longer in duration. For instance, some prefer to refeed for 24 hours, in which case they may consume anywhere from 25 to 50% above their maintenance caloric intake. For shorter refeeds, such as those that last for 6 to 10 hours, people often do not count their calories; rather, they pack down as much as they can within the designated time-frame to ensure that their fat cells have a hefty bag of new fuel to stoke the metabolic furnace with.
Appropriate Foods For a Refeed
During your refeed, you should aim for around 1G of protein per Pound of body weight, keeping your sources of fat to a minimum, so you are only taking the fats that are in your proteins and carbs. Now, here is the fun part: CARBS! Yes, lots and lots and lots of carbs. Not necessarily brown rice, sweet potatoes and oats here either:
Bagels
Pasta
Rice
Bread
Cereal
FF/SF Ice Cream
Pancakes
Waffles
Crackers
Yes, all the things we crave If its low fat or fat free, have at it! Remember, no additional fats.
You should keep fructose to a minimum though. Sticking to 50-100G [for fructose, probably lower, like 25%] for the day is plenty. Remember sucrose is 50% glucose and 50% fructose so seeing that we need to watch our fructose, staying away from sucrose (table sugar) is probably best. Yes, in order to elevate our levels of leptin, we want to spill over muscle, not liver glycogen.
Wrapping It Up---For Now
Now, don't bother stepping on the scale the next day---you will be heavier. Remember, carbs make you hold water but in a day or two it will be all gone and your body will burning fat like mad again.
Some of you being scared of other carb sources may opt to refeed with slow burning carbs and that's fine. Just keep in mind its going to take a hell of alot more oatmeal to raise Leptin than 1 bowl full, and if you’re doing a relatively short refeed, you may want to reconsider your food choices; a short refeed absolutely requires a drastic increase in your calories, as well as the consumption of refined carb sources.
The fiber in the slow burning carbs can be counter-productive when trying to raise leptin, that's why we use refined carbs. Refined carbs raise Leptin much quicker and you won't feel like a stuffed pig all day for having to eat 3C of oats to equal what 1 bagel could have done. And for those of you who are scared, it’s up to you to look at the entire picture, especially in light of how the body seeks balance. Then, if you truly understand the issue, you will no longer fear the calculated nature of a refeed, even if it requires you to consume those foods that are typically----at least in your mind----forbidden.
Anyone carb cycling does not need to follow this refeed. Reason being is because the carb cycling diet uses the High Carb days (every 2 days) to raise Leptin.
I plan on adding more to this as I go. This is just the beginning.
Refeeds and Leptin
Refeeds are typically done while cutting; that is, creating a caloric deficit so your body is forced to rely on fat as an energy source. Most people on any low carb diet---i.e. less than 1 gram per pound of bodyweight per day----or implementing any extreme caloric deficit should incorporate a refeed.
Refeeds are used to raise Leptin, refill muscle and liver glycogen, as well as providing sanity release from dieting as your body is temporarily thrown into a state of metabolic balance. Please read Par Deus's first article on Leptin and its benefits:
http://magazine.mindandmuscle.net/ma...D=51&issueID=3
A Quick, Layman’s Explanation of Leptin:
Leptin is considered an anti-starvation/metabolic balance hormone. As your Leptin levels decrease, the signal is sent to inform that your body is going into starvation mode. As your body goes into starvation mode we all know what happens---your fat loss slows down immensely or in some cases to a screeching halt. So in order to kick fat loss into gear again, you need to raise Leptin.
Common sense dictates that the body seeks balance, and if you endeavor to upset that balance---you have to outwit your body. We were built for survival, and unfortunately for the fitness/bodybuilding-oriented folk, “survival” didn’t mean 170 pounds of ripped mass at 6% bodyfat.
I can’t count have many people have asked this the question of why they lost fat after cheating. They have been so good and clean on their diets for weeks and results slowed down, they got frustrated, they cheated and 2 days later woke up lighter and leaner than before the cheat. Main reason right there, they raised Leptin. Raising Leptin levels will give your body the kick-start it needs for the next few days to keep you out of starvation mode as you diet. As long as your body is out of starvation mode, the faster the fat loss, and the less likely you are to lose LBM, while suffering on all counts in the process. Like I said above, this a brief explanation and there is so much info on Leptin so please read Par’s articles for a more detailed and scientific explanation.
Eat Your Way Out of Metabolic Hell
So, now you are probably thinking, "How do I increase Leptin?” Ready for this...........Eat lots of Carbs. I'm not necessarily talking slow burning carbs here either folks. I know, most of you reading this right now are thinking is she talking about? Simple explanation: The way to raise Leptin is to actually spill over into your fat cells.
Yes, I said it, SPILL OVER!! In order to fill your muscle glycogen you need carbs, once your glycogen stores are full, you are now spilling over into your fat cells. 1 Step Backwards for 2 Steps Forward. Remember folks you can't get fat in 1 day. This is not a new method of fat loss either. Bodybuilders are doing this everywhere and with fantastic results. A Refeed Day is NOT and I repeat NOT a cheat day. There are rules to this that should be followed to avoid gaining fat during the refeed
Typically a refeed is done every 4-5 days, although the frequency of the refeeds can be adjusted to suit the person. The lower the caloric deficit you've managed to create, and the lower your BF%, the more often you should refeed. Why? Because your leptin levels plummet as your calories drop and your bodyfat decreases; remember, we want to stay out of starvation mode.
How do you know when you should refeed more often, or less often? Unfortunately, it’s a personal process of trial and error; no two people are alike, and the general refeed plan is just that---general. If you find yourself constantly obsessed with food, and if you’re losing a significant amount of muscle and strength, you may have to refeed more often (perhaps every 2 to 3 days).
A refeed may also be shorter or longer in duration. For instance, some prefer to refeed for 24 hours, in which case they may consume anywhere from 25 to 50% above their maintenance caloric intake. For shorter refeeds, such as those that last for 6 to 10 hours, people often do not count their calories; rather, they pack down as much as they can within the designated time-frame to ensure that their fat cells have a hefty bag of new fuel to stoke the metabolic furnace with.
Appropriate Foods For a Refeed
During your refeed, you should aim for around 1G of protein per Pound of body weight, keeping your sources of fat to a minimum, so you are only taking the fats that are in your proteins and carbs. Now, here is the fun part: CARBS! Yes, lots and lots and lots of carbs. Not necessarily brown rice, sweet potatoes and oats here either:
Bagels
Pasta
Rice
Bread
Cereal
FF/SF Ice Cream
Pancakes
Waffles
Crackers
Yes, all the things we crave If its low fat or fat free, have at it! Remember, no additional fats.
You should keep fructose to a minimum though. Sticking to 50-100G [for fructose, probably lower, like 25%] for the day is plenty. Remember sucrose is 50% glucose and 50% fructose so seeing that we need to watch our fructose, staying away from sucrose (table sugar) is probably best. Yes, in order to elevate our levels of leptin, we want to spill over muscle, not liver glycogen.
Wrapping It Up---For Now
Now, don't bother stepping on the scale the next day---you will be heavier. Remember, carbs make you hold water but in a day or two it will be all gone and your body will burning fat like mad again.
Some of you being scared of other carb sources may opt to refeed with slow burning carbs and that's fine. Just keep in mind its going to take a hell of alot more oatmeal to raise Leptin than 1 bowl full, and if you’re doing a relatively short refeed, you may want to reconsider your food choices; a short refeed absolutely requires a drastic increase in your calories, as well as the consumption of refined carb sources.
The fiber in the slow burning carbs can be counter-productive when trying to raise leptin, that's why we use refined carbs. Refined carbs raise Leptin much quicker and you won't feel like a stuffed pig all day for having to eat 3C of oats to equal what 1 bagel could have done. And for those of you who are scared, it’s up to you to look at the entire picture, especially in light of how the body seeks balance. Then, if you truly understand the issue, you will no longer fear the calculated nature of a refeed, even if it requires you to consume those foods that are typically----at least in your mind----forbidden.
Anyone carb cycling does not need to follow this refeed. Reason being is because the carb cycling diet uses the High Carb days (every 2 days) to raise Leptin.
I plan on adding more to this as I go. This is just the beginning.
BigJohnD
New member
wow great post man, thanks! Ive been dieting and starving myself actually, even though i was eating 5-6 small meals a day... Ive been doing that for three weeks, and i was starting to notice fatigue and that i just wasnt getting slimmer anymore... I was actually starting to get pissed. Interesting to know that my body needs a refeed, or cheat day. It actually got me excited to know i can eat like a normal human being once in a while. =) Thanks again
refeeds and cheat days are two totally different things. cheat day is when you eat whateer you want, pizza, burgers, fries ice cream, etc. refeeds, it you want to get your protein intake in, and eat alot of cabrs while keeping fats down. white rice is good for refeeds but you cant have it with the tbone steak marinated in oilive oil cuz it will mess up the whole process. ive been doing complex and simple carbs on refeed days and its working better then refeeding with oats and brown rics and sweet potatoes
iron_matt-CB
Member
Ok so today I ate
pancakes with light syrup not too much
2 rice krispie treats ( read that this was acceptable )
honey nut cherrios with 1% milk
pasta white
Do you guys feel these are acceptable choices?
Thanks
pancakes with light syrup not too much
2 rice krispie treats ( read that this was acceptable )
honey nut cherrios with 1% milk
pasta white
Do you guys feel these are acceptable choices?
Thanks
the idea is to eat simple carbs (white rice, breads, bagels) while keeping fat and sugars low. sugars are bad during the low carb days and refeed days, theyre just plain bad. rice crispie treats have sugar in them from marshmellows so that wouldnt be that great of a choice. rice cakes would be better but check the labels to make sure theyre low in sugars. white pasta is in fact a complex carb even though its white. if you look at the ingriedients in pasta, the first ingriedient is semolina which is wheat, so its basically a low gi food, i guess people who diet for a contest prefer brown rice over pasta because pasta is calorie dense. i can eat half a box of spaghetti at a sitting and not even be extremely full. i prefer white potatoes and white jasmine rice for my refeeds because even though theyre high glycemic carbs, they dont contain any other ingriedients (for example, white bread has at least 10-15 ingriendients) so i think its nutritionally better.
iron_matt-CB
Member
Yes but I also read to keep sugars between 25-100gr daily.. There was a big write up on it from another board... I believe it was buy Anthony Roberts
not regular sugar. they were talking about fructose, the sugar in fruits. they do very little, if any, at filling muscle glycogen.
iron_matt-CB
Member
Probably a smart idea.. I'll have to cut out the sugar
iron_matt-CB
Member
Nomak do you put anything on tour bagels and rice cakes??
i stick to white rice, spaghetti, and sweet potatoes or baked potatoes. you can put fat free cream cheese on the bagels. i dont eat rice cakes at all so you would have to find out yourself. if you stick to the basic rule of refeeds, youll be fine, which is eat more carbs and keep fats (even healthy fats) and sugars to a minimum.
on high carb day i would substitute chicken.
if it was ground beef, then rinsing it after would be fine. or you can use top round steak (london broil cut). top round has very low fat. or just use chicken/fish.
fats should be kept as low as possible, meaning no added fats from olive oil, peanut butter, flax, efa's, etc. when going on low carbs, some people, like myself, add fats to my last 3 meals, so i have 3 protein/carb meals and 3 protein/fats meals. on the high refeed days, i would take out the fat sources in my last 3 meals and add carbs instead.
15% of your total daily calorie intake. of course clean fats too.
Woundn' tit be better to just take in moderate complex carbs through-out the day, opposed to to depleting
your body on a low carb diet? and gradually lose fat over 3-4 month period of time. Instead of trying to get ripped fast.
I believe taking in moderate carbs through-out the day will help you retain more muscle opposed to low carb diets
I feel you lose to much muscle on them no-matter how much juice your on.As long as your disciplined
with your cardio you can add more quality carbs to your diet and keep more muscle. I tryed those low-carb diets in the past
you do get in-shape quick but you lose some quality muscle in the process wich could have been avoided by just
upping your carb intake some. When cutting I would eliminate simple carbs after your work-out because raising your
insulin levels makes you suceptible to storing fat. As for the refeed days Yeah! they do give your metabolism a jump start
but if your eating enough protein and carbs during the week you really don't need them. I would start out with moderate
intake of carbs to avoid catabolism then see how I looked then I would tweek my diet either lower or raise my carb intake
everyone is different. The name of the game is to get in-shape an retain as much muscle as possible.
That's just my input, Please! correct me if I'm wrong
your body on a low carb diet? and gradually lose fat over 3-4 month period of time. Instead of trying to get ripped fast.
I believe taking in moderate carbs through-out the day will help you retain more muscle opposed to low carb diets
I feel you lose to much muscle on them no-matter how much juice your on.As long as your disciplined
with your cardio you can add more quality carbs to your diet and keep more muscle. I tryed those low-carb diets in the past
you do get in-shape quick but you lose some quality muscle in the process wich could have been avoided by just
upping your carb intake some. When cutting I would eliminate simple carbs after your work-out because raising your
insulin levels makes you suceptible to storing fat. As for the refeed days Yeah! they do give your metabolism a jump start
but if your eating enough protein and carbs during the week you really don't need them. I would start out with moderate
intake of carbs to avoid catabolism then see how I looked then I would tweek my diet either lower or raise my carb intake
everyone is different. The name of the game is to get in-shape an retain as much muscle as possible.
That's just my input, Please! correct me if I'm wrong
caucasianovcharka
New member
I was on a relatively low to moderate carb routine for the last 5 weeks of cutting. Last week I just about lost my mind. I wasn't losing fat very quickly and felt like crap, so I upped my cardio way beyond reason, and burned myself out. Since then I've decided to carb cycle. On Sunday I ate a ton of good carbs. It was very satisfying even though I felt like I was being counterproductive taking in maintenance level calories. The next day I hadn't gained any weight and now two days later (1 day low carb, and today no carb) I am losing at a faster rate but don't feel burned out mentally. I am going to have a carb refuel day on Thurs. and Sunday b/c that's when I lift upper body. The rest of the week I will vary between low and no carb (vegetable and a little dairy and nuts allowed). I think that my new plan will not only help to renew my metabolism every few days, but it will help me to have better lifts and keep more muscle. More importantly, looking forward to my high carb days will help me to resist cravings and stay sane. A great plan is often just a decent plan that you can stick with!
Guitarhead
New member
wow this is great read but i am confused....soooo ....do you eat HIGH protein..LOW carb ..MOD fat....for 4 days ...then eat HIGH protein , HIGH CARBS, LOW fat ? is this carb cycling ...i need diet help lol
B
bodybuildbro
Guest
I look forward to my cheat day. Minimal cheating but wouldn't give it up.
gymjunkie09
New member
150g,100g,50g,50g repeat works great but shouldn't be ran any longer than 30 days even that long is brutal......If you hit a wall with your diet it's a good way to shake things up even if it's only for a couple weeks
msinnott1000
BEAST MODE
Can anyone hit me with a link of explain carb cycling to me??
Soccerfreak
New member
I prefer low carbs. Usually with carb cycling I tend to eat way too loss which leads to way too more on the carb up days--lots of bloating. On regular low carbs I eat fairly enough carbs anyway so it's steady-not to mention I get to keep my sanity.
santosakal
New member
carb cycling
I am currently in week 2 of a strict CKD Diet. and was going mental on day 5 before my pre-load carb up. feeling tiny and drained. than carb day ran depletion routine, was hard as Fuark.. struggled big time.. had carb day, ate like a boss, felt sick to start with, than arvo carbs leveled out and felt better, day after was rest day, than next day on low carb, <15g carbs, workout was amazing. felling good currecnlty .
i feel i could use a refeed midweek, tho as i have a high metablism and im on a very very strict diet, so my body hits keto pretty much in a day and half.. so might trial a midweek refeed and see how the workout goes.. and its true i felt and looked lighter after the workout from the carb day.. was freaky shit.. never done this diet before. and its brutal but seems to be paying off, and seeing some small result in a short.
time.
want to ask should i maybe stick to the current plan and do midweek refeed on the third week ? coz maybe i am expericing a placebo feeling ?
i feel i could use a refeed midweek, tho as i have a high metablism and im on a very very strict diet, so my body hits keto pretty much in a day and half.. so might trial a midweek refeed and see how the workout goes.. and its true i felt and looked lighter after the workout from the carb day.. was freaky shit.. never done this diet before. and its brutal but seems to be paying off, and seeing some small result in a short.
time.
want to ask should i maybe stick to the current plan and do midweek refeed on the third week ? coz maybe i am expericing a placebo feeling ?
2tickets
New member
Hi all
I do weights 3 days a week on alternate days and conditioning work once a week. Concept of mucking around with your carbs very new to.me, always done an all or nothing approach previously. Was thinking of going high carbs on lifting days and low carbs on non lifting days to try to burn fat and add muscle simultaneously. Will this work at all?
Any suggestions very welcome please?
Sent from my GT-I9100 using EliteFitness
I do weights 3 days a week on alternate days and conditioning work once a week. Concept of mucking around with your carbs very new to.me, always done an all or nothing approach previously. Was thinking of going high carbs on lifting days and low carbs on non lifting days to try to burn fat and add muscle simultaneously. Will this work at all?
Any suggestions very welcome please?
Sent from my GT-I9100 using EliteFitness
vladimirtheimpaler
Banned
I do this too. Seems to keep my system guessing a bit better. Now and then throw in a free for all day.
Generally, it's best to run your refeed during your day off, so you get the most of your your rest and recovery - maximum anabolism. However, if you look back at BodyOpus, a combination of a post carb-depletion refeed (after the last workout, friday night) and weekend refeeds, works best.
Brapbrap07
New member
I'm gluten intolerant as well as a slow burner. So lower carbs in general seems to make my body happier. (110g max)
After reading this makes me worried I might be taking too small of an amount. I guess ill try doing the roller coaster on off days
And leg day.
After reading this makes me worried I might be taking too small of an amount. I guess ill try doing the roller coaster on off days
And leg day.
Aussi muscle
New member
Thanks for this post, I am trying my first high carb day today after 4weeks of super low carbs. I will be doing it over 3 meals with white bread and white rice. Il see how it goes and add it in once a week on Wednesdays(leg day). Hopefully can get past this plateau
AmandaHalls
New member
I prefer the low carbs. This is more effective according to what I have learned from metaboliccooking. But I do the other as well.
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