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http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com/index.html
http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com/index.html
Its a long movie, but well worth watching
- Thread starter Lestat
- Start date
About 8 min. in and the theme seems to be the corruptive nature of organized religions. I'm interested to see/hear where this goes.
Cool find, Lestat.
Cool find, Lestat.
I liked this quote from the movie-
"Religion can never reform mankind because religion is slavery." - Robert G. Ingersoll
Last night I downloaded a classic game called Castlevania: Symphony of the Night to my PS3. In the beginning a descendant of the vampire-hunting Belmont clan confronts Dracula by saying "You steal men's souls and make them your slaves."
To which Dracula replies, "Perhaps the same could be said of all religions."
Surprising to hear something that controversial coming from an old school videogame, which also more or less happens to be true.
Throughout history Dracula is used as a fictional representation of all that is wrong and evil when in reality that mindset makes more sense.
"Religion can never reform mankind because religion is slavery." - Robert G. Ingersoll
Last night I downloaded a classic game called Castlevania: Symphony of the Night to my PS3. In the beginning a descendant of the vampire-hunting Belmont clan confronts Dracula by saying "You steal men's souls and make them your slaves."
To which Dracula replies, "Perhaps the same could be said of all religions."
Surprising to hear something that controversial coming from an old school videogame, which also more or less happens to be true.
Throughout history Dracula is used as a fictional representation of all that is wrong and evil when in reality that mindset makes more sense.
I agree with KB. You'd have to think that these people in the video were paid off and the evidence was doctored to suit the movie's premises. And I can't believe I even thought of that being that it's so far fetched.
The attention to detail in this movie, combined with its logic make it pretty convincing.
The attention to detail in this movie, combined with its logic make it pretty convincing.
KillahBee
New member
Wow, wait til you get to the end.
i don't get into politics AT ALL. And the reason, which coincidentally is exactly what this movie is about and the topic of repeated arguements I have with people when they try to lambast me for not voting, is this: we (Americans) are so increasingly ignorant and void of all logical thought and critical insight that we simply turn on the television or pop open a newspaper and TRULY believe all that we see as factual. We have become such distracted (took that from the movie) and lazy sloths that we have actually convinced ourselves that we are intelligent and knowledgeable simply because
"someone told me so".
Wow.
i don't get into politics AT ALL. And the reason, which coincidentally is exactly what this movie is about and the topic of repeated arguements I have with people when they try to lambast me for not voting, is this: we (Americans) are so increasingly ignorant and void of all logical thought and critical insight that we simply turn on the television or pop open a newspaper and TRULY believe all that we see as factual. We have become such distracted (took that from the movie) and lazy sloths that we have actually convinced ourselves that we are intelligent and knowledgeable simply because
"someone told me so".
Wow.
I'm 20 minutes in....
Take the anti-Nazi stuff out of this movie and it would've already been pulled from the internet, exposing the group primarily involved. The author hasn't quite figured it all out yet. Or simply, would rather not, for obvious reasons.
The blatant contradiction it makes about "the people behind the mainstream media not telling us what we're supposed to know." ....I suppose it could only naturally be...the Nazis?
The blatant contradiction it makes about "the people behind the mainstream media not telling us what we're supposed to know." ....I suppose it could only naturally be...the Nazis?
patsfan1379
New member
I am a man of faith.
patsfan1379 said:
I have faith that one day you'll finally stfu.
patsfan1379
New member
If I put cool music and "serious" narration I could edit together a slideshow and make you believe it. Just as you guys say those who believe in God are "sheep" for believing - as are you for believing a glorified Powerpoint slideshow by some high school kids.
Best not believe in anything until the damage has already been done.
crazyjoe
New member
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VABSoHYQr6kpatsfan1379 said:
this is horrible and disgusting.. wow..
the american goverment is fucking the devil.. =(
HORRID!
the american goverment is fucking the devil.. =(
HORRID!
looks like rockafeller is the real devil who started all of this..
that sob..
he made 1.3 TRILLION dollars of WW1.. such crap..
this is disgusting.. humanity is screwed..
that sob..
he made 1.3 TRILLION dollars of WW1.. such crap..
this is disgusting.. humanity is screwed..
This type of thing is good for people to see. For the most part we live our day to day lives and this really does not matter, but keep in mind the people who are getting filthy rich live a completely different life than you or I. I don't care if you have 10 million, that's nothing compared to the true elite in the world. And where does that wealth come from? From you and I. We create wealth with our intelligence, our sweat, our blood, our tears. It is ignorant for anyone to ignore the fact that a select few profit from most our of nations day to day business. You think you have a good life because you can afford to see a nice show, eat a great meal, go on a good vacation, and raise a family, but in reality we're all slaves.
I should make my father watch it. He already thinks the government and everyone else is out to get him. This would send him into seizures lol.
opcorn:
Yeah the religious stuff was my fav.
Lestat said:
A two billion increase ain't that much of an inflation adjustment over 80-odd years, especially when you can add a "0" to any car purchase today vs only 30 years ago. It could well have been "trillion".
javaguru said:
What were your takes on parts 2 & 3?
Very good post Lestat. (I'm serious) I watched the entire video, and it definitely makes one think.
Makes me wonder if Spellwin is a distant third cousin of someone in the Rockafeller families next door neighbors' daughters ex-boyfriend.
jack_schitt said:
lololol
H
heatherrae
Guest
Ditto.patsfan1379 said:
Some people need meds for paranoia.
Wulfgar said:
also curious about this aswell.
was a great watch though that's for sure.
It's so fucking frustrating how the majority of people are so short-sighted. No wonder bad things always end up happening; no one cares enough to prepare for them. Ask most any other developed nation what they think of the typical American attitude, and watch them scoff and shake their heads.
patsfan1379
New member
So you guys are against religion, or against God? Which one?
patsfan1379
New member
How are two shmucks who made a cheesy slideshow so groundbreaking? If this is such amazing belief-shattering news, that's been around since the beginning of time, why hasn't the story been told already, NUMBEROUS times? Why hasn't modern religion crumbled? Why does 90% of the earths population believe in a higher power? Why are the only sources of reference for the movie nonamed schmucks from God knows where? Nigga pleez. Go watch Loose Change again and bitch about how 9/11 was carried out by our government. Fuckin impressionable godlees fucks you's are.
redsamurai
Banned
I haven't even seen the video yet and I have to take umbrage with some of your points............"If this is such amazing belief-shattering news, that's been around since the beginning of time, why hasn't the story been told already, NUMBEROUS times? Why hasn't modern religion crumbled?"
That's easy..........modern religion usurps your own spiritual journey, lays out a roadmap, makey you stop having to think about yourself and who you really are........life "appears" to be easier when someone takes one of these theologies on. Humans are by nature weak...........so they will gravitate to that which makes them comfortable and doesn't require anything difficult. Religion tells you how to interact with your fellow man, how to judge etc...... so it's very easy for me to see why certain religions catch on like wild fire in certain regions. It's no coincidence that the people who make/made carreers out of "thinking" and "observing"..........usually discard human notions of god............because they see humans for what they really are, so a book written by humans almost carries no intellectual weight. Religion is for the worker ants...........keeps them sedated. I absolutely whole heartedly beleive in a higher power............but I will never adhere to a human religion.
That's easy..........modern religion usurps your own spiritual journey, lays out a roadmap, makey you stop having to think about yourself and who you really are........life "appears" to be easier when someone takes one of these theologies on. Humans are by nature weak...........so they will gravitate to that which makes them comfortable and doesn't require anything difficult. Religion tells you how to interact with your fellow man, how to judge etc...... so it's very easy for me to see why certain religions catch on like wild fire in certain regions. It's no coincidence that the people who make/made carreers out of "thinking" and "observing"..........usually discard human notions of god............because they see humans for what they really are, so a book written by humans almost carries no intellectual weight. Religion is for the worker ants...........keeps them sedated. I absolutely whole heartedly beleive in a higher power............but I will never adhere to a human religion.
patsfan1379 said:
patsfan1379
New member
redsamurai said:
Dude, be more articulate. Less stream-of-consiousness.
You may know what you are trying to say but I have no fucking idea what the hell you're trying to get across lol.
redsamurai
Banned
patsfan1379 said:Dude, be more articulate. Less stream-of-consiousness.
You may know what you are trying to say but I have no fucking idea what the hell you're trying to get across lol.
that's cool, when JG get's back in here he'll be more precise.
+1redsamurai said:
very very well spoken and put together
fact of the matter is that most people on this planet are so other-determined they cannot and will not think for themselves. They let the church tell them what to do, they let the media tell them what is the truth, they let thier friends, parents, associates, books ect dictate their lives for them. this happens until they are so caught up in the mundane and have given up so much of themselves to other sources they are in a sense "trapped" in their own prison of definition.
We all need to wake up, realize what powerful sources of creation we all are and stop giving away our authority to anything and everything we can. We have become experts are limiting ourselves in all ways and that needs to stop. Religion is just one thing in a mile long list of problems humanity will have to overcome.
Do I love God? Yes, absolutely. Do I love the Christian god or any organized religion? hell no, those systems are ruthless, bloodthirsty power mongering organizations bent on control and manipulation through fear and opression. Worship that? Am I crazy?
redsamurai
Banned
Wulfgar said:+1
very very well spoken and put together
fact of the matter is that most people on this planet are so other-determined they cannot and will not think for themselves. They let the church tell them what to do, they let the media tell them what is the truth, they let thier friends, parents, associates, books ect dictate their lives for them. this happens until they are so caught up in the mundane and have given up so much of themselves to other sources they are in a sense "trapped" in their own prison of definition.We all need to wake up, realize what powerful sources of creation we all are and stop giving away our authority to anything and everything we can. We have become experts are limiting ourselves in all ways and that needs to stop. Religion is just one thing in a mile long list of problems humanity will have to overcome.
Do I love God? Yes, absolutely. Do I love the Christian god or any organized religion? hell no, those systems are ruthless, bloodthirsty power mongering organizations bent on control and manipulation through fear and opression. Worship that? Am I crazy?
+10!!! dude, that was seriously insightful.........I'm very impressed, I did not expect that from you............if I was a chick I'd be like so wet right now.............
!!!
patsfan1379
New member
Wulfgar said:+1
very very well spoken and put together
fact of the matter is that most people on this planet are so other-determined they cannot and will not think for themselves. They let the church tell them what to do, they let the media tell them what is the truth, they let thier friends, parents, associates, books ect dictate their lives for them. this happens until they are so caught up in the mundane and have given up so much of themselves to other sources they are in a sense "trapped" in their own prison of definition.
We all need to wake up, realize what powerful sources of creation we all are and stop giving away our authority to anything and everything we can. We have become experts are limiting ourselves in all ways and that needs to stop. Religion is just one thing in a mile long list of problems humanity will have to overcome.
Do I love God? Yes, absolutely. Do I love the Christian god or any organized religion? hell no, those systems are ruthless, bloodthirsty power mongering organizations bent on control and manipulation through fear and opression. Worship that? Am I crazy?
That statement applies to anything, not just religion.
are you kidding?patsfan1379 said:
Look at the Mormon faith bro.
It was founded by a known con artist, Joseph Smith. There are numerous books and examples that show it is a derivative of Christianity, the book of Mormon based upon the Bible, same for the book of Abraham.
Joseph Smith endorsed polygamy and told his wife that god sent her a special message to allow it.
He "translated" the books from gold plates that no one but him ever saw (god's orders).
YET, despite all this, despite the overwhelming evidence that its all a scam, we still have millions of people in the world that believe it, and they take in over 10 BILLION DOLLARS per year! That is more money than many nations would know what to do with. How do you explain that?
Same goes for Christianity, it was copied from pagan religions, it was given divine authority by Constantine in 300 AD, and since then through the use of power, money, and extreme violence its been propagated.
You know how the impressionable fucks are? Those that take what religious authorities say at face value. Think about what you believe and why you believe it, does it really make any sense at all? Probably not if you believe Jesus is your personal savior. What exactly is he saving you from, the evil sins of humanity?
redsamurai said:+10!!! dude, that was seriously insightful.........I'm very impressed, I did not expect that from you............if I was a chick I'd be like so wet right now.............
Ironically it's probably part of the reason his gf wants to split up; he's too deep for her, and she wants someone "simple". Monkey see, monkey do (no offense, Puddle Monkey).
.... wait 
lol
you have seen my old posts on GodLestat said:
To me God is ALL that IS. Mind, thought, spirit, corporeal reality(think, motion/change, matter, energy, form, Dimension, time, gravity), Formless Awareness(think illimitable presense or a higher self, definition, interpretation, duality/emotionalism) and unexpressed infinite potential (an essential aspect of ALL that IS or God, indefinable and static, perceived as infinite space by the corporeal self) some examples would be pervasive intention, emanating cause and prime power
to cliff note all that :God is the infinite field of reality in which everything exists and doesnt exist. God is infinite in all ways and therefore has no definable traits. We are ALL part of God, it is how we are linked @ our most basic source.
Can I prove all this with modern science? Good question, how can something indefinable be defined by anything? I instead choose to beleive based on my experiential understanding of such things. And this is an understanding that words cannot do justice to and that the only way to learn these things is to unravel the sheaths of perception blinding us all to what we truly are and have always been.
remember: The mistake in thought is that we are physical beings trying to have a spiritual experience. The truth is we are spiritual beings having a physical experience.
Listen to your boy Maynard James Keenen in Parabola. he sums it up pretty well "this body holding me reminds me of my own mortaility, embrace this moment, remember, WE ARE ETERNAL all the pain is an illusion."
i hear you, i used to think that way, but I realzied I only thought that like because I wanted it to be true, I hoped it was, but if I am going to start believing things for which there is no factual basis, I am no better than the fundamental muslims or christians out there.Wulfgar said:you have seen my old posts on God
To me God is ALL that IS. Mind, thought, spirit, corporeal reality(think, motion/change, matter, energy, form, Dimension, time, gravity), Formless Awareness(think illimitable presense or a higher self, definition, interpretation, duality/emotionalism) and unexpressed infinite potential (an essential aspect of ALL that IS or God, indefinable and static, perceived as infinite space by the corporeal self) some examples would be pervasive intention, emanating cause and prime power
to cliff note all that :God is the infinite field of reality in which everything exists and doesnt exist. God is infinite in all ways and therefore has no definable traits. We are ALL part of God, it is how we are linked @ our most basic source.
Can I prove all this with modern science? Good question, how can something indefinable be defined by anything? I instead choose to beleive based on my experiential understanding of such things. And this is an understanding that words cannot do justice to and that the only way to learn these things is to unravel the sheaths of perception blinding us all to what we truly are and have always been.
remember: The mistake in thought is that we are physical beings trying to have a spiritual experience. The truth is we are spiritual beings having a physical experience.
Listen to your boy Maynard James Keenen in Parabola. he sums it up pretty well "this body holding me reminds me of my own mortaility, embrace this moment, remember, WE ARE ETERNAL all the pain is an illusion."
Of course we can all move outside the argument of rational thought and evidence by saying something is indefinable, but remember, once you do that, ANYONE can do that. So you have your version of god, anyone else can have theirs, and what if someone else's god isn't as nice as yours and commands us people to do some pretty bad things... wait a sec, I feel like I'm describing modern day history here!
I think the only flaw in only beleiving with what can be scientifically "proven" is the flaw in the design of the scientific model itself. let us not forget for ages and ages people believed earth was the center of the universe, the world was flat, no one could break the speed of sound(you would die if you did) or run the 4 min mile..etcLestat said:
all of which have been disproved in their own right. So if we limit ourselves only to what we "know" and I use that term loosely. then how can we ever achieve more and learn what has not been uncovered yet about ourselves and our surrounding we live in?
CrazyRussian
Banned
All this crap about how people are slaves of religion is not true. And this is simply because you can chose to not follow any religion. Hence, you are free. Slavery by definition is when you are forced to do something...you can chose to be non-religious whenever you like, similar to how our enlightened friend Lestat has.
redsamurai
Banned
you're down with maynard??? I am so totally 
for you now...............seriously dude, you fucking rock!! This is probably the best post I"ve ever read here
for you now...............seriously dude, you fucking rock!! This is probably the best post I"ve ever read hereWulfgar said:you have seen my old posts on God
To me God is ALL that IS. Mind, thought, spirit, corporeal reality(think, motion/change, matter, energy, form, Dimension, time, gravity), Formless Awareness(think illimitable presense or a higher self, definition, interpretation, duality/emotionalism) and unexpressed infinite potential (an essential aspect of ALL that IS or God, indefinable and static, perceived as infinite space by the corporeal self) some examples would be pervasive intention, emanating cause and prime power
to cliff note all that :God is the infinite field of reality in which everything exists and doesnt exist. God is infinite in all ways and therefore has no definable traits. We are ALL part of God, it is how we are linked @ our most basic source.
Can I prove all this with modern science? Good question, how can something indefinable be defined by anything? I instead choose to beleive based on my experiential understanding of such things. And this is an understanding that words cannot do justice to and that the only way to learn these things is to unravel the sheaths of perception blinding us all to what we truly are and have always been.
remember: The mistake in thought is that we are physical beings trying to have a spiritual experience. The truth is we are spiritual beings having a physical experience.
Listen to your boy Maynard James Keenen in Parabola. he sums it up pretty well "this body holding me reminds me of my own mortaility, embrace this moment, remember, WE ARE ETERNAL all the pain is an illusion."
redsamurai
Banned
CrazyRussian said:
so when catholics baptize their children when they're born, put that energy on them...........is that "free will"?? Religion is more insidious than you're giving it credit for..........sure you can "choose" to not beleive in a specific religion...........hopefully you're in a region where people don't give a crap. But if you're in the middle east right now..........I'd be very careful about expressing any feelings of spirituality other than islam...........fuckers are getting beheaded. Now here in the states no one's getting beheaded.............but we do shun and ostrasize don't we? Social pressuring??
CrazyRussian
Banned
redsamurai said:
Well, I dunno. Both of my parents are Jewish and I was born jewish...it says so on my birth certificate under Ethnicity. But we barely observe any of the holidays and when we do we do so very casually. Therefore, in my personal experience, I don't feel like a slave to a religion even though I was born into one. I still see your point and realize that I'm in the minority...but I still don't think calling religion slavery is completely fair. Of course there are outliers like the Middle East and shit but over there you can consider being born into the wrong family slavery.
I totally wanted to stay out of this..
but I entirely skipped the religion part of this movie..
everything else was awesome.
I believe in god, infact I don't just BELIEVE in god.
I fucking know with 100% undeniable proof that he exists.. because a mother fucking miracle happened to me within 30 minutes of me praying for it, after not believing in god for years.
Now saying that, I love god.. god loves you..
most of you who don't believe, won't believe me, so whatever.
I cannot agree religion is a good thing, but it is not a horrible thing either.
I am not religious, nor do I participate in any organized religion, but I love god and I live each day trying to be a good human being doing good things for other people.
To say religion is bad is ignorant, to say it is the answer to all problems.. is also ignorant..
but I entirely skipped the religion part of this movie..
everything else was awesome.
I believe in god, infact I don't just BELIEVE in god.
I fucking know with 100% undeniable proof that he exists.. because a mother fucking miracle happened to me within 30 minutes of me praying for it, after not believing in god for years.
Now saying that, I love god.. god loves you..
most of you who don't believe, won't believe me, so whatever.
I cannot agree religion is a good thing, but it is not a horrible thing either.
I am not religious, nor do I participate in any organized religion, but I love god and I live each day trying to be a good human being doing good things for other people.
To say religion is bad is ignorant, to say it is the answer to all problems.. is also ignorant..
redsamurai
Banned
what you have is "spirituality" my friend........nothing wrong with that. What we rail against is organized doctrinated religion that tells you whom to associate with and whom not to...........it's inately divisive.....and therefor completely evil. Spiritualities that focus on the individual and his/her own spiritual journey are fine, that's the way it was supposed to be..............but long ago some folks found out how powerful it is to tell someone that you have the answer to the eternal question that has plagued the minds of all of us since humans have been here.............the question of the hereafter. You get people to buy into a certain doctrine..............they'll do anything you want.
FriendlyCanadian said:
redsamurai said:
I like you, you're a smart guy.
so please don't think that organized religion is PURELY evil.. it isn't PURELY good either.
but really honestly.. alot of people need it.. alot of people become better human beings in all seriousness because of it, learn kindness generosity through it.
organized religion does not teach PURELY evil messages..
for example.. do to others as you would have others do to you.."
that does not have satanism and evil written all over it..
I'd bet my ass the % of people who are involved in organized religion, don't rape, kill, steal, plunder.. murder.. nearly even close to as much as the people who aren't involved in organized religion.
based on this information alone it is not pure evil..
THOUGH it has done some purely evil shit in the past, people often use it as a reason to do whatever the fuck they want, but that doesn't place religion to blame in all cases.
it's mostly the people in power who become corrupt, and use religion as a tool of evil, but that doesn't happen all the time.
blame the fucking people, not the religion.
though I don't agree with organized religion, I think it's mostly a good thing.. I mean honestly.. think about it..
just like the video said most people spend to much time, listening to what others say.. (example : the video you just watched saying religion was the devil )
actually think about it.. how many people do you know that go to church organized religion that are actually really good people.. with high morales.. etc etc..
if you sit down and think about it, and still think religion is purely evil..
well then.. think harder.. ; )
redsamurai
Banned
you're right, at the micro level it's not evil at all.........and that's the insidiousness. You go to sunday church services you're not going to run into a whole lot of rapists and murderers..........but you have to think deeper about this. I beleive in the transfer of energy between people due to all sorts of interactions............even here at EF. Some benign, some not so benign.............I beleive christians are not evil people at heart, but they are spiritually "owned". When it comes down to it.........they do and think what they're respective masters tell them to do because they're respective masters hold up the old books. So it's all about control. Christianity is a two headed coin.............one side indeed looks very rosey..........but you have to flip the coin and see the foundation..........then things get darker. Throughout history christians, along with the other contemptible religions of the world............have convinced themselves of doing some pretty heinous and awful things to people that fell outside of their book. And I always get told by family that you can't judge christianity based off the humans that follow it.........because humans are imperfect. Well........I want you to think about that for a moment and see if you realize how fucked that sentiment is on NUMEROUS LEVELS! All these religions have the inate desire to conquer the world...........this is fact............it's going on to this day...........and I really see religion as being the most devisive force in the history of humanity. Not borders, not race, not ethnicity..........religion seperates us the hardest and convinces us of superiority to others based on some notions of the afterlife..............that my friend is evil.......I can't help but say that.
FriendlyCanadian said:
friendlycanadian:
not to take anything away from your miracle, I am not doubting what you feel or think happened at all, but I have talked to people from many different faiths, and nearly ALL of them swear to me there has been at least one moment in their life where they felt god directly. The difference is, they all claim allegiance to a different god.
That tells me that this "spiritual" experience is something common among humans, and we literally are ruining it with all of the bullshit we wrap up inside of religion.
redguru:
I agree, religion is divisive.
Look at Christians alone, how many denominations are there? They all think they are the one true version, and everyone else has it just a little bit wrong.
not to take anything away from your miracle, I am not doubting what you feel or think happened at all, but I have talked to people from many different faiths, and nearly ALL of them swear to me there has been at least one moment in their life where they felt god directly. The difference is, they all claim allegiance to a different god.
That tells me that this "spiritual" experience is something common among humans, and we literally are ruining it with all of the bullshit we wrap up inside of religion.
redguru:
I agree, religion is divisive.
Look at Christians alone, how many denominations are there? They all think they are the one true version, and everyone else has it just a little bit wrong.
Lestat said:
Cool, I'm kind of drunk at the moment... so give me some leway.
I honestly believe that alot of people lie about any kind of spiritual encounter.. but god is just a name.. I give it/him/her/whatever because I was actually raised in a catholic church..
I don't have allegencies to any praticular god if that makes sense.
I just love it/him/her/whatever and pray and go on about my daily business.
patsfan1379
New member
FriendlyCanadian said:
I'm with you 100%.
